LCD Backlight setting suggestions please? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-02-2008, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I cant decide what to put my lcd backlight setting on. It has been on 35 out of 50 and seemed fine on other games i played but i recently got GTA4 which has alot of darker scenes and i noticed my blacks a bit glowy so i turned it down to half(25) and its seems better thing is i think it makes some of my other games a bit dim. What is usally a good setting for the backlight. i really want it set good for games and movie without having to change the setting.

My tv backlight goes from 1-50 i have my tvs contrast and brightness set right using avia 1 and 2 and thx but theres no sure fire way i can set backlight using those disks.

btw this is off topic but gta4 has a brightness and contrats option which seems to be named wrong contrast seems to effect the dark end and brightness messes with the white areas. How would i go about setting the games settings with white areas and dark areas till i get the detail but no washout?
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 09:55 AM
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Don't expect much consistency, predictable image quality, or adherence to motion imaging industry standards and practices when watching games. Many game studios don't care about image fidelity or standards. There are exceptions, but the prevailing pattern in the industry is to concentrate on whatever sells, not picture quality. Artistic integrity is not a priority. Paying a studio full of 40 or more digital graphics artists and programmers, working under bright overhead fluorescent office lighting or next to a window, using cheap uncalibrated LCD monitors, in a very competitive market, is uppermost on most game producers' minds.

Most gamers aren't videophiles. This may be gradually changing. THX Certified Games have to follow a disciplined quality control program. Some studios may have their own proprietary QC methodology that focuses on sound and picture quality. The only program of this kind that I know for sure is founded upon proven audio and video engineering, acoustic and imaging science principles, is the THX Games program.

In conclusion, don't plan on being able to leave your display settings in one mode for games. DVD movies should be much more reliable and consistent. The video and film industries are vastly more mature when it comes to following standards. Game producers come more from a computer background and most have only a half-vast understanding and appreciation for imaging industry standards.

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post #3 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply. So could you recommend a backlight setting for me? On my older sdtv crt i never had to change any settings. What do people usally have there backlight on? 35 on my tv would basicly be 70% and 25 is 50%. i dont wanna lose what makes my image pop but i also dont want glowy blacks. as for movies i use my ps3 for that but it also plays games lol sometimes on some movie i can see the glowing black but if the picture is a daylite movie it seems fine. ill guess ill try 30 being that 60% mayber 70% was to high
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 10:55 AM
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LCD backlight settings are more to compensate for ambient lighting conditions than program characteristics, although that may be a factor as well. Since there's no way for me to know your viewing environment conditions, it's impossible for me to recommend a backlight level setting. My recommendation is to use either the 'Avia II' or 'Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics' DVD and educate yourself on the use of test patterns and picture controls. This should help you become familiar with how video images should generally look.

Personally, I don't recommend any LCD TVs yet, when image fidelity and overall picture quality are the top priority. Some recent LCDs are performing better but most are poor substitutes for DLP, LCoS, plasma or CRT. You didn't mention what TV you own. If yours is one of the weaker sets, the black level and contrast ratio will always be problematic.
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post #5 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 11:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenokai View Post

I cant decide what to put my lcd backlight setting on. It has been on 35 out of 50 and seemed fine on other games i played but i recently got GTA4 which has alot of darker scenes and i noticed my blacks a bit glowy so i turned it down to half(25) and its seems better thing is i think it makes some of my other games a bit dim. What is usally a good setting for the backlight. i really want it set good for games and movie without having to change the setting.

My tv backlight goes from 1-50 i have my tvs contrast and brightness set right using avia 1 and 2 and thx but theres no sure fire way i can set backlight using those disks.

btw this is off topic but gta4 has a brightness and contrats option which seems to be named wrong contrast seems to effect the dark end and brightness messes with the white areas. How would i go about setting the games settings with white areas and dark areas till i get the detail but no washout?

I would probably leave it at 25(user midpoint) for now and do a calibration of the basic user controls with the newer AVIA, or DVD Blu-Ray or HDDVD. Different backlight settings will definitely skew your results, whether backlight is set at 15, 25, or 45.

If level 25 backlights the image enough for viewing in moderate room light yet doesn't wash out detail in darker parts of your picture, you should be okay until you can actually meausure it.

Factory backlight levels - typically max(!) - are enough to land 747s by, and not appropriate under any conditions.
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post #6 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D-6500 View Post

I would probably leave it at 25(user midpoint) for now and do a calibration of the basic user controls with the newer AVIA, or DVD Blu-Ray or HDDVD. Different backlight settings will definitely skew your results, whether backlight is set at 15, 25, or 45.

If level 25 backlights the image enough for viewing in moderate room light yet doesn't wash out detail in darker parts of your picture, you should be okay until you can actually meausure it.

Factory backlight levels - typically max(!) - are enough to land 747s by, and not appropriate under any conditions.

thanks for your input i may just leave it at 25 if i lower it to like 15 it realy start getting dim. like i said before tho ive been using a 35 setting till i got just got gta4 which is a pretty dark game sometime and the light seemed to bug me. 25 seems fine on it but i tryed my gears of war game tho and it seems much dimmer. Is the midpoint usally what people use? Turning it up makes white parts of the pic better which is what i mostly use to use but now ive tryed darker stuff i noticed a glow. my remote has a dedicated backlight button but i really wanna get it settled for 1 setting for all my stuff.

My tv isnt the best there is but was worth every penny i paid. Its a 32" westinghouse it had a 1 week sale for christmas last year (reg $699 on sale for $499) i tryed 3 diffrent tvs before settling with this because it just seemed better. one of the ones i tryed was a $899 toshiba and i thought since wasa well know brand it would be great i was way wrong it had amazing motion blur which had me returning the tv the next day.
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-03-2008, 04:11 PM
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If it looks good at "35" for everthing else, leave it there. When you play GTA4, set it to 25 and enjoy. When you're done... set back to 35.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #8 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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really what i wanna know is the midpoint for the backlight where it should be does raising it create a brighter picture then what the developer of the game or movie intended? and why dont the makers of all lcd have a certain set backlight that u cant adjust wouldnt confuse people as much or is the backlight to help sell it on the sales floor? kinda like the cool/neutral color temp on tvs are usally the wrong setting but make it pop more in stores.

Alot of this stuff confused me when i got my tv and i was using the neutral or cool color temps and seeing overly blueish pictures sometimes. later found out warm is spot on just when i messed with th setting at first my eye made me think warm was to red. used warm for a week and it all looks right. i wish there was a spot on backlight setting. i new about the lighter blacks on lcds when i bought my tv but wanted a flat panel that wont burn in on all the games i play which 90% of people said lcd is the best for games because the huds on the screen wont burn it. the backlight setting is the last setting im not sure what to put on i have everything calibrated and looks great. may leave it on 25 on all stuff because im sure glowy blacks images isnt what i want. i donno i miss when there was 1 type of tv haha.
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 01:31 PM
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Backlight settings have much more to do with the tendencies of the display than with what the source material designer intended. Generally, LCD backlights should be set as low as possible while still getting acceptable white levels. Often, backlight settings will affect gamma and white balance, so without a meter it can be difficult. You need to experiment with your set toi find the best settings.

LCDs work by blocking the backlight or allowing it to pass through. Since even at full black you get backlight leakage, lower backlight settings usually allow better blacks. As noted above, this depends greatly on behavior of the specific display. Look at a variety of material on your set, a variety of test patterns, and use the lowest backlight setting that gives the results that you find acceptable.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #10 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 03:45 PM
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Quote:


i donno i miss when there was 1 type of tv haha

Haven't we been discussing one type of TV in this thread? Seriously, when it was just CRTs we still had to change image settings for varying viewing environment conditions. That also wouldn't have solved the problems we have with games not adhering to video standards. Consumer television has never been 'plug and play.' Correct pictures always required an understanding of what the user adjustments were for, what to do with them, and when to use them. If you want to have the best image on your TV, with all the types of programs you view, you will need to resolve that the back light level will need to be changed as circumstances change.
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 03:50 PM
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Backlight settings have little to do with the type of material viewed. It may need to be set for different lighting conditions in the room, but adjusting brightness is what needs to be done to deal with variance in progamming. Backlight settings often interact with gamma and gray scale, so once the best setting is discovered for a set, I would not suggest changing it for differences in programs.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #12 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 06:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Backlight settings have little to do with the type of material viewed. It may need to be set for different lighting conditions in the room, but adjusting brightness is what needs to be done to deal with variance in progamming. Backlight settings often interact with gamma and gray scale, so once the best setting is discovered for a set, I would not suggest changing it for differences in programs.

Agreed immensely - especially your last 7 or 8 words!

Don't you feel a sense of power when you know you've got your TV dialed in as close to standard as you can, given your resources, and all the cable channels are all over the freakin' MAP with regards to saturation, cutoff, peak white, gamma, and even how off centered some are on the screen??

Actually tickles me, to tell the truth.
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post #13 of 25 Old 05-04-2008, 06:27 PM
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I mostly wonder why people whose work is seen by potentially millions of viewers don't take more pride in what they do. Then I tweak my brightness and color for best viewing of that program. It usually only takes a few ticks on the controls to improve most programs. I don't get into tweaking much more than those because they are the ones that are easy to do on the fly on actual programming.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #14 of 25 Old 05-05-2008, 04:40 AM
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Mine is factory set on 20. I've decided to leave it there.

I have had more difficulty trying to calibrate my new LG 37lg30 then my old Sony Wega. This morning I officially gave up and put it on Cinema. My calibration bar says the black merges but flat on out the picture looks better then when I try to use calibration via HDnets calibration. I'm still struggling however between Warm vs Cool. I can't decide what looks best.

Edit: I don't have much time but using the grey scale I changed from Warm to medium and raised the black level to 50. It made the most definitive edges I've seen on the grey scale and my picture looks much, much better.

I've just not use to seeing contrast up at 90. Brightness at 60 but it seems to work. To me.

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post #15 of 25 Old 05-05-2008, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hookbill View Post

M

Edit: I don't have much time but using the grey scale I changed from Warm to medium and raised the black level to 50. It made the most definitive edges I've seen on the grey scale and my picture looks much, much better.

I've just not use to seeing contrast up at 90. Brightness at 60 but it seems to work. To me.

I had to learn that here too. Flat panels use a digital(0-255) range of brightness. Theoretically contrast is supposed to be left at maximum for these panels to display the full contrast ratio. This of course is not the case with the "tube" tvs we've all grown up with, where contrast had to be kept relatively low to preserve picture quality and the life of the TV itself(!)

Some makes can do it, some cannot. For those that cannot, a pattern is used to dial in a setting that accurately displays the pattern for white-level, typically 80-90% of the max setting. Also, contrast on a plasma or LCD does not equate to total light output, as it did on a tube(direct-view). In the case of an LCD, total light output is the job of the backlight.

In a flat world, a whole new set of rules applies.
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post #16 of 25 Old 05-05-2008, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hookbill View Post

Mine is factory set on 20. I've decided to leave it there.

I have had more difficulty trying to calibrate my new LG 37lg30 then my old Sony Wega. This morning I officially gave up and put it on Cinema. My calibration bar says the black merges but flat on out the picture looks better then when I try to use calibration via HDnets calibration. I'm still struggling however between Warm vs Cool. I can't decide what looks best.

Edit: I don't have much time but using the grey scale I changed from Warm to medium and raised the black level to 50. It made the most definitive edges I've seen on the grey scale and my picture looks much, much better.

I've just not use to seeing contrast up at 90. Brightness at 60 but it seems to work. To me.

My tv shows contrast at 47 out of 50 is the max mine goes to using hdmi inputs on my component its like 45 i guess it all depends on the input. Usallyusing a preset mode i have found none come close to a currect setting. When i got my tv i had it on the game mode and i was pissed when i seen alot of green glowing effects in gears of war. After realizing my color was way to high and the color temp was on cool making color show up wrong changed it and it looked right. I suggest using a calibration disk to set contrast, brightness, and sharpness. I dont suggest using the blue filters to set color. Every tv ive ever used the filters on the filter always over saturated all the colors and not just red. i find the tv 40% color is usally always right. My old crt was set at 40 and after seeing oversaturtion on my lcd i turned it to 40% and wacthed it awhile and everything seemed right. Warm color temp also made a HUGE improvment from using the neutral option. (dont set color temp with your eye) warm will seem more red vs the others and will seem not as vibrate to your eye at first but wacthw arm for a week and everything will look currect.

Back on subject tho i still cant really decide on my backlight setting. is this setting meant to me changed alot? 25/50 looks good on gta4 since its dark and 35/50 seems better on gears of war/halo3 since thos games have more brighter levels.. Anyone have a suggestion? im thinking of using 30/50 they may give all stuff equal black and whites im not sure tho -.- wish there was a calibration setting to set backlight.
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post #17 of 25 Old 05-05-2008, 01:13 PM
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Use a setting between 30 and 35. Whatever provides the happy medium for all of your gaming and/or video preferences.

Set it and forget it or manually adjust as needed.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
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post #18 of 25 Old 05-05-2008, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Well lighter images looks great at 35 and night images are best at 25 so i guess 30 would give the most even for both i guess? lol
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-01-2008, 10:38 PM
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Can somebody give me the best picture settings they've found for the 37LG30? I just got it and like the OP I'm kind of struggling with the different settings. If somebody found the perfect picture settings could they please post the numbers?
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-01-2008, 07:49 PM
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Change your picture settings to Expert 1 before calibrating to the following...

Backlight - 60
Contrast - 95
Brightness - 38
Sharpness - 35
Color - 48
Tint - 0
Fresh Contrast - Low
Noise Reduction - Low
Gamma - High
Black Level - High
Real Cinema - On
Color Standard - HD
White Balance - Medium
Red Color - Neg 6
Red Tint - Neg 2
Magenta Tint - Neg 2

Hope this helps

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post #21 of 25 Old 07-13-2008, 12:10 PM
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Well one consideration- I think it's likely the higher you run the backlight the sooner it will burn out so I run mine about 33% and adjust the picture with brightness and contrast controls to compensate.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-28-2008, 06:12 PM
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I've been doing some reading on this, and I'm wondering how it relates to the recommended 17 foot lamberts for theatres, and the 34 fl in mastering houses?

Is 17 considered the ideal, with 34 being used just to better spot flaws while encoding? (THX seems to specify 17fl + or - 4, implying that 21 fl is the very highest recommended brightness)

Are there any warning signs or test patterns, etc. I can look for to see if my backlight is 'too bright' or 'too dark'?
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-28-2008, 06:43 PM
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Welcome to the forum. Screen brightness recommendations from SMPTE and THX must be understood in view of the type of display system being used, viewing environment conditions, and screen size/viewing distance. Throwing numbers around without defining context results in confusion and erroneous implementation. Since you are using an LCD panel, use the higher figure as a guide. The THX recommendation you refer to is in the range for film exhibition and front projection display of movies.

The SMPTE video monitor recommendation is from SMPTE RP: 0167-1995 'Alignment of NTSC Color Picture Monitors' and was in reference to CRT broadcast and post-production monitors in controlled viewing conditions, as defined by SMPTE RP:0166-1995 'Critical Viewing Conditions for Evaluation of Color Television Pictures.' That professional monitor specification was ideally for 35 ftL or at least 30 ftL if the monitor could not perform linearly at the higher figure. CRT monitors are still the dominant display in use for critical mastering. That is gradually changing but SMPTE has not issued official updated recommendations for new display types as yet.

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post #24 of 25 Old 07-28-2008, 07:30 PM
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Thanks for the welcome


As I understood, the only important issue (in terms of looking at standards for different types of projection) would be ambient light. Since my room is (when I'm watching movies) as dark or darker than a typical theatre, and the screen fills my field of vision (using the recommended 40degree THX viewing distance) what would make the LCD have a higher luminance recommendation?
The SMPTE guideline you mentioned seems to specify "critical" viewing, wouldn't that suggest that the 34fl is, then, just for mastering, etc. and specifically looking for flaws (as opposed to home viewing)?
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-28-2008, 07:38 PM
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This article will fill in some gaps in your understanding: http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm .
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