HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 315 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9421 of 12267 Old 11-05-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noon O'Clock View Post
Ok so ideally, is the Rec.709 standard the final result I should obtain or is it just a way to verify the display's performance ? Because from what I can see, when I calibrate to 75% saturation and luminance, or even at 100%, the image looks unreal.
The "Before" colours are quite good. They grey scale and gamma are excellent.
You may be able to finetune the CMS settings a little (e.g., reduce green saturation slightly), but so far your "After" results are all worse.
If you have the correct patterns, try to run the Saturation Sweeps and Colour Checker patterns for verification.
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post #9422 of 12267 Old 11-06-2017, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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3.4.4.2 update

Here is another update, versioned 3.4.4.2, just the executable/dll's for testing.

This includes the previous updates plus:
  1. Fixed single measurement pattern in near black sequence when using ST.2084.
  2. Added underflow checks in color generator to fix CCAST crash on some patterns.
  3. Fixed RGB graph reference plot not following grayscale Y weighting prefs.
  4. Fixed error in RGB levels dE between open doc and reference doc using relative Y weighting.
  5. Fixed error in RGB levels dE when using relative Y weighting.
  6. Added full dE and Y weighted RGB to combined free measures graph. Target follows GS/NB/NW column selection.
  7. Tied free measures grid to track selected level from GS/NB/NW pages.
  8. Add tracking % display in combined free measures graph for GS/NB/NW.

HCFR 3.4.4.2
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post #9423 of 12267 Old 11-06-2017, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Here is another update, versioned 3.4.4.2, just the executable/dll's for testing.
Thanks for the update but it's not running properly on my computer. I installed a fresh copy of 3.4.4, and pasted the new files into the directory. The Measures grid displays all blanks after a simulated greyscale run (or when opening an existing chc file). The data is actually there there, as the Current Measure in Selected Color window is updated as I click on different IRE columns.
3.4.4.1 does not have this issue.
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post #9424 of 12267 Old 11-06-2017, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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post #9425 of 12267 Old 11-06-2017, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
oops...please download again now.
Thanks, that works. I also confirmed that the reference curve now displays properly according to the preference.
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post #9426 of 12267 Old 11-08-2017, 08:19 AM
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When running HCFR (both 3.4.2 and 3.4.4) I'm getting a popup of Argyll Error, Starting communications with the meter failed". The meter is an xrite i1 display pro and its seen by xrite iprofiler and calman without issues. OS is windows 10. Please help!

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post #9427 of 12267 Old 11-08-2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
When running HCFR (both 3.4.2 and 3.4.4) I'm getting a popup of Argyll Error, Starting communications with the meter failed". The meter is an xrite i1 display pro and its seen by xrite iprofiler and calman without issues. OS is windows 10. Please help!
Just had this exact issue myself. Make sure all of the xrite software is turned off before opening HCFR. Once I disabled all xrite related software at startup, my meter was recognized just fine. Let us know if that helps.
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post #9428 of 12267 Old 11-08-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJra View Post
Just had this exact issue myself. Make sure all of the xrite software is turned off before opening HCFR. Once I disabled all xrite related software at startup, my meter was recognized just fine. Let us know if that helps.
An easier way is to turn OFF the "X-Rite Device Manager" in Computer Management > Services and Applications > Services.
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post #9429 of 12267 Old 11-10-2017, 05:37 AM
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Uninstalled all xrite and other CMS programs and still the same error. In the end I just spun up a new VM and it worked!

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post #9430 of 12267 Old 11-10-2017, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I've put up version 3.4.5 on sourceforge (download link in sig) with some minor updates from the last test build. The full list of updates since 3.4.4 are:
  1. + Incorporates all updates/fixes by The Coolest fork (3.4.3 and 3.4.4)
  2. + Fixed single measurement pattern in near black sequence when using ST.2084.
  3. + Added underflow checks in color generator to fix CCAST crash on some patterns.
  4. + Fixed RGB graph reference plot not following grayscale Y weighting prefs.
  5. + Fixed error in RGB levels dE between open doc and reference doc using relative Y weighting.
  6. + Fixed error in RGB levels dE when using relative Y weighting.
  7. + Added full dE and Y weighted RGB to combined free measures graph. Target follows GS/NB/NW column selection.
  8. + Tied free measures grid to track selected level from GS/NB/NW pages.
  9. + Add tracking % display in combined free measures graph for GS/NB/NW.
  10. + Fixed incorrect Magenta and Green Saturation Shift Graphs
  11. + Fixed incorrect RGB values in NB/NW measures
  12. + Fixed ftp download check by clearing IE cache.
  13. + Fix minor messaging bug and change dl location.
  14. + Add check for PrimeWhite on doc creation, use OnOff if missing
  15. + Fixed simulator elevating Y when requesting no offsets
  16. + Added RGB indicator and target arrow response when in tracking mode on freemeasures page
  17. + Fixed default white/black values having weird chromaticities.
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post #9431 of 12267 Old 11-10-2017, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I've put up version 3.4.5 on sourceforge (download link in sig) with some minor updates from the last test build.
Thanks zoyd.
A feature request:
For the luminance graph, please consider providing an option for plotting the actual luminance rather than normalized luminance. SMPTE 2084 HDR defines the EOTF in terms of the actual luminance. Even for SDR, there are times when the comparison between two sets of measurements is more meaning without the normalization.
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post #9432 of 12267 Old 11-12-2017, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I've put up version 3.4.5 on sourceforge (download link in sig) with some minor updates from the last test build.
Zyod, Thanks for this! I have been a long time lurker and user of HCFR. I have learned a lot here and appreciate everything you contribute.
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post #9433 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 03:28 AM
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Hi all, new to calibration but here is my first attempt at it on an Epson 7300 projector (I believe known as 5040 in the US). No ambient light in room but white walls and ceiling. Draper ReAct3 screen. i1d3 meter and HCFR 3.4.5. Setting up for 1080p SDR Rec.709

While the deltas look good the CIE graph does not, so looking for some pointers. Thanks

Color Mode: Natural
Brightness: 40
Contrast: 55
Color Saturation: 50
Tint: 50
Sharpness: 5/5/5
colour temp: 6500K
Skin tone: 4
Offset R: 45
Offset G: 50
Offset B: 48
Gain R: 62
Gain G: 50
Gain B: 34
Frame Interpolation: off
4K enhancement: off
Image preset mode: off
Noise reduction: 0
MPEG Noise Reduction: 0
Super-resolution:
Fine Line Adjust: 0
Soft Focus Detail: 0
Detail Enhancement:
Strength: 0
Range: 0
Gamma: 0/2/-4/-4/-8/-8/-10/-18/-12
R: 50/50/53
G: 50/50/49
B: 50/50/50
C: 50/50/50
M: 50/50/50
Y: 50/50/50
Epson Super White: Off
Power consumption: ECO
Auto iris: Off
HDMI Video Range: Expanded
Color Space: BT.709
Dynamic Range: SDR
Image Processing: Fine

















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post #9434 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
Hi all, new to calibration but here is my first attempt at it on an Epson 7300 projector (I believe known as 5040 in the US). No ambient light in room but white walls and ceiling. Draper ReAct3 screen. i1d3 meter and HCFR 3.4.5. Setting up for 1080p SDR Rec.709
You may want to use REC709 75/75 for calibrating the CMS.
BTW, it's much easier for others to analyse the results if you post the HCFR chc file, rather than a bunch of screenshots.
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post #9435 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You may want to use REC709 75/75 for calibrating the CMS.
BTW, it's much easier for others to analyse the results if you post the HCFR chc file, rather than a bunch of screenshots.
Sorry for the newbie question but when you say 75 you mean 75 saturation?

Noted re posting file instead of screenshots going forward.

Is stereomandan's excel sheet here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-download.html still valid with the latest HCFR of 3.4.5. Doesn't seem to be much activity on that thread anymore?
Attached Files
File Type: zip sw_off_and_expanded_range.chc.zip (40.6 KB, 4 views)
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post #9436 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
Sorry for the newbie question but when you say 75 you mean 75 saturation?

Noted re posting file instead of screenshots going forward.

Is stereomandan's excel sheet here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-download.html still valid with the latest HCFR of 3.4.5. Doesn't seem to be much activity on that thread anymore?
75%/75% in the HCFR Preference means 75% saturation and 75% stimulus level. With many displays that gives you better results than the default (which is 100%/100%). You will need to have the corresponding patterns, or use the internal (automatic) patterns.
There is no need to use that spreadsheet as all the targets are automatically calculated in HCFR.
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post #9437 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
75%/75% in the HCFR Preference means 75% saturation and 75% stimulus level. With many displays that gives you better results than the default (which is 100%/100%). You will need to have the corresponding patterns, or use the internal (automatic) patterns.
There is no need to use that spreadsheet as all the targets are automatically calculated in HCFR.
Ah, didn't see the grayscale Y target and it was staring me in the face all along!

What about when doing the colours thou as find that tricky, eg modifying Hue/Saturation/Brightness in Epson CMS to hit the target x/y/Y. Does HCFR provide any assistance in that?

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post #9438 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
What about when doing the colours thou as find that tricky, eg modifying Hue/Saturation/Brightness in Epson CMS to hit the target x/y/Y. Does HCFR provide any assistance in that?
An ideal CMS would have Hue/Saturation/Brightness independent of one another. In practice they interact, so I set up HCFR to display simultaneously the CIE Diagram (for Hue and Saturation) and the Measurement grid itself (primarily for the Y, and to select the color for adjustments).

You may know this already, but Saturation adjusts the distance from white whereas Hue adjusts the angle relative to the target. In the attached example, Green requires a reduction in Saturation and an increase in "Brightness" (Y), whereas Yellow require an adjustment in Hue and an increase in Y.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-13-2017 at 11:04 AM.
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post #9439 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 11:42 AM
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Can HCFR be used for calibrating laser projectors like the LS10500?

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post #9440 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 12:11 PM
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Can HCFR be used for calibrating laser projectors like the LS10500?
If you have a meter that's profiled for the laser light source, you should be able to calibrate it, at least for SDR. HCFR only has limited support for HDR.
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post #9441 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 12:46 PM
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Okay thanks. Yeah the bigger question is the meter, I have a i1pro RevD. Dave Harper has one as well that he said he's going to check out on his LS10500.

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post #9442 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
An ideal CMS would have Hue/Saturation/Brightness independent of one another. In practice they interact, so I set up HCFR to display simultaneously the CIE Diagram (for Hue and Saturation) and the Measurement grid itself (primarily for the Y, and to select the color for adjustments).

You may know this already, but Saturation adjusts the distance from white whereas Hue adjusts the angle relative to the target. In the attached example, Green requires a reduction in Saturation and an increase in "Brightness" (Y), whereas Yellow require an adjustment in Hue and an increase in Y.
The Epson 7300 CMS has Hue, Saturation and Brightness slides for each of the RGBCMY colours.

As everything affects everything, what the right process after grayscale and gamma are done?

Using AVS HD 709, what I did was take the white reading, which at the time was 91 cd/m2 (26.5 ftl) and then for each RGB move their brightness sliders so they were Red 0.21% of white, Green 0.71% of white, and Blue 0.08 of white using 100% sat field colours (afterwards realised that 75% and 100% sat are the same brightness, I think!). Then using 75% saturation fields for each of the RGBCMY move the Hue and Saturation sliders so they landed at their target on the CIE diagram.

Is this process right?
When would brightness for CMY be configured?
What is required to get the Delta E green in the primary and secondaries view?




Attached Files
File Type: zip post_cal_post_colours.chc.zip (30.9 KB, 5 views)

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post #9443 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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If you change the reference to 75%/75% Rec709 you will get the correct dE readings in your chart (even though you used 100% luminances as your reference)
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post #9444 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
Using AVS HD 709, what I did was take the white reading, which at the time was 91 cd/m2 (26.5 ftl) and then for each RGB move their brightness sliders so they were Red 0.21% of white, Green 0.71% of white, and Blue 0.08 of white using 100% sat field colours (afterwards realised that 75% and 100% sat are the same brightness, I think!). Then using 75% saturation fields for each of the RGBCMY move the Hue and Saturation sliders so they landed at their target on the CIE diagram.

Is this process right?
Your process seems unnecessarily complicated.

Once you've displayed the required pattern, all you need to do is to use the Hue and Saturation controls to bring the measured point on the CIE diagram close to the Reference point, and adjust the Brightness for Y. HCFR does not display Reference Y in the CMS grid, but you would adjust Brightness to bring Delta Luminance as close to 0 as you can. As mentioned in my previous post, with the current versions of HCFR there is no need to do any offline calculation yourself.

You have to iterate a couple of times, but the 5040UB CMS is quite well behaved, i.e., the interaction between the controls is minimal.

EDIT: If you're using 75% saturation patterns you should change the HCFR Preference to 75%/75%, which you didn't seem to have done. Also, note that the AV709HD patterns are 75% saturation at 100% stimulus, not 75%/75%. However, as zoyd pointed out, you can still use HCFR directly without having to do any off-line calculations.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-13-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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post #9445 of 12267 Old 11-13-2017, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I've put up version 3.4.5 on sourceforge (download link in sig) with some minor updates from the last test build.
First v3.4.5 bug report:
The Export Measurements to xls function is broken.
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post #9446 of 12267 Old 11-14-2017, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Broken how? Was there a particular condition required to generate the problem? I just exported a measurement set without a problem other than the color checker sheet XYZRGB labels are incorrect.
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post #9447 of 12267 Old 11-14-2017, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
If you change the reference to 75%/75% Rec709 you will get the correct dE readings in your chart (even though you used 100% luminances as your reference)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Your process seems unnecessarily complicated.

Once you've displayed the required pattern, all you need to do is to use the Hue and Saturation controls to bring the measured point on the CIE diagram close to the Reference point, and adjust the Brightness for Y. HCFR does not display Reference Y in the CMS grid, but you would adjust Brightness to bring Delta Luminance as close to 0 as you can. As mentioned in my previous post, with the current versions of HCFR there is no need to do any offline calculation yourself.

You have to iterate a couple of times, but the 5040UB CMS is quite well behaved, i.e., the interaction between the controls is minimal.

EDIT: If you're using 75% saturation patterns you should change the HCFR Preference to 75%/75%, which you didn't seem to have done. Also, note that the AV709HD patterns are 75% saturation at 100% stimulus, not 75%/75%. However, as zoyd pointed out, you can still use HCFR directly without having to do any off-line calculations.
Thanks Dominic and Zoyd, that makes a world of difference. Easy once you know how as they say!

Is it only the paid version of Ted's disk that has 75%/75% patterns, or are there others?

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post #9448 of 12267 Old 11-14-2017, 01:59 AM
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Zoyd,

Good to have you back on the show! Thanks for the 3.4.5 update. Some remarks:


With GDI and 16-235 selected, running the contrast measurement, for ON/OFF contrast levels 16 and 235 are used (as expected). For ANSI contrast however, levels 0 and 255 are used.

The ISO 12233:2000 pattern is no longer part of the standard. Perhaps it is better to use the newer ISO 12233:2017 extended test chart, which is now part of the standard. See http://www.imatest.com/solutions/iso-12233/

A feature request: one of the hardest things in calibration is how to enhance near black detail, especially - but not exclusively - important for OLEDs. I found the pattern made by Wizziwig https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post46798617 very useful. Could this pattern be included in the test pattern section?
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post #9449 of 12267 Old 11-14-2017, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I've put up version 3.4.5 on sourceforge
Great timing! I'm just about to do some re-calibrations on my displays here. Kudos.

I have started to doubt my i1d3 and was on a futile hunt for a reference Spectro for loan/hire/have a pro come home or whatever. But ended up bying a Colormunki Photo Spectro. Will have some use for it for printing so I hope it will be worth it. I know it is not as accurate as an iPro 2, but it is what was reasonable in price for hobby use.

What are the steps required to create a correction matrix in HCFR for my i1d3 based on the munki spectro and a specific display. I was trying to find a corrsponding forum entry for this but the thread is kind of hard to search...
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post #9450 of 12267 Old 11-14-2017, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by viperlogic View Post
Thanks Dominic and Zoyd, that makes a world of difference. Easy once you know how as they say!

Is it only the paid version of Ted's disk that has 75%/75% patterns, or are there others?
Just found a 75% stimulus saturation sweep pattern on the GCD disk. That ok to be used thou will be a bit of jumping around to the right pattern?

A side question, for projectors, such as the Epson 5040, best to use field or window patterns, currently been using field patterns?

Epson EH-TW7300, 104" borderless ReAct 3, Denon AVR-X2300W in 5.1.2, Monitor Audio Bronze, Monitor Audio Pro-65, BK P12-300 sub, Nvidia Shield, Vero 4K+, ATV 4K, Panasonic UB400, SKY Q, PS3, Wii, RPi, Sony XF90, Denon Heos soundbar, Amazon Echo, Logitech Harmony Elite

Last edited by viperlogic; 11-14-2017 at 03:52 AM.
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