HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 355 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10621 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdove View Post
Dominic, You mentioned in March-2017 that green saturation graphs were incorrectly reported. How can one know if the error is in HCFR or in the TV?

In that previous case it was quite obvious the error was in HCFR, as "The saturation shift graphs show a -50% shift of magenta and green at full saturation and yet the dE is still at ~1." If the error was in the TV, the dE would be much higher when there's a -50% shift in saturation. That error was since corrected.
In your case there's no reason to suspect HCFR. The dE readings are consistent with the saturation graphs and the delta L.
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post #10622 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10623 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
@webdove Set your diffuse white target to the correct value of 94.3 nits. That may help.
That sounds like cheating
The current diffuse white target of 127 nits is consistent with the measured value.
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post #10624 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That sounds like cheating
The current diffuse white target of 127 nits is consistent with the measured value.
Does changing diffuse white change the generated and recorded saturation signals or only their interpretation in the sat-sweep luminance graph?
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post #10625 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That sounds like cheating
The current diffuse white target of 127 nits is consistent with the measured value.
The correct diffuse white for HDR calibration is 94.3 nits.
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post #10626 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdove View Post
Does changing diffuse white change the generated and recorded saturation signals or only their interpretation in the sat-sweep luminance graph?
You will have to recalibrate to a new EOTF curve using that value. I haven't checked whether setting the diffuse white higher than it should be even generates the correct targets as this was designed to be adjusted lower to accomodate projectors.
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post #10627 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
The correct diffuse white for HDR calibration is 94.3 nits.
Understood.
That involves adjusting the EOTF such that diffuse white reads 94.3 nits (if it can be done with the specific TV; some can't).
With the diffuse white reading 127 nits (the opposite situation to the common "multiplier"), I would think that the colour luminance levels should also be proportionally higher.
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post #10628 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdove View Post
Does changing diffuse white change the generated and recorded saturation signals or only their interpretation in the sat-sweep luminance graph?
zoyd can (obviously) answer this question better, but my understanding is that the generated signals are based on the diffuse white target rather than the measured diffuse white.
If you change the target from 127 to 94.3 without re-running the measurements, the results will appear better as the delta L will be smaller, relative to the lower target. That would be "cheating" in my previous post.
If you then rerun the measurements, the delta L will jump back up, but maybe not as high as before. This might have been what zoyd meant, and it would not be "cheating".

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-10-2018 at 06:13 PM.
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post #10629 of 11708 Old 05-10-2018, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10630 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 01:34 PM
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I have read its better to use the generated HCFR patterns, what is the reason not to use the R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite? It has HCFR patterns in it.

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post #10631 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
I have read its better to use the generated HCFR patterns, what is the reason not to use the R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite? It has HCFR patterns in it.

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For what it's worth, the new UltraHD|HDR-10 pattern suite revision has updated workflows that follow HCFR version 3.5.1.4 and new 10-bit patterns that round down to 8-bit precision, so the 10-bit switch isn't necessary. The newly updated workflow below. Thanks!

HCFR HDR-10 Workflow (version 3.5.1.XX) (Color patterns based on 50% amplitude)

- Grayscale
- Primaries and Secondaries
- Near Black
- Near White
- CMS Saturation Scale
- ColorChecker
- Contrast

- Ryan M.
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post #10632 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 02:22 PM
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Just got email this morning lol!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
For what it's worth, the new UltraHD|HDR-10 pattern suite revision has updated workflows that follow HCFR version 3.5.1.4 and new 10-bit patterns that round down to 8-bit precision, so the 10-bit switch isn't necessary. The newly updated workflow below. Thanks!

HCFR HDR-10 Workflow (version 3.5.1.XX) (Color patterns based on 50% amplitude)

- Grayscale
- Primaries and Secondaries
- Near Black
- Near White
- CMS Saturation Scale
- ColorChecker
- Contrast

- Ryan M.
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post #10633 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
I have read its better to use the generated HCFR patterns, what is the reason not to use the R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite? It has HCFR patterns in it.

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I'm not sure where you read that its "better". I know some of us guided you to start there as it will be easier for you to learn HCFR.

I personally use manual patterns (including Ryan's great patterns) because I found that there were errors between the automated patterns through my laptop and my content sources.

The process we suggested before was:
1. use automated patterns to do your initial calibration and learn HCFR / calibration process
2. check results against your sources (for example, take some measurements from your UHD or streaming device using manual patterns)
3. If there is a material difference that you cannot correct, you can do you final calibration with manual patterns.
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post #10634 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhn View Post
I'm not sure where you read that its "better". I know some of us guided you to start there as it will be easier for you to learn HCFR.

I personally use manual patterns (including Ryan's great patterns) because I found that there were errors between the automated patterns through my laptop and my content sources.

The process we suggested before was:
1. use automated patterns to do your initial calibration and learn HCFR / calibration process
2. check results against your sources (for example, take some measurements from your UHD or streaming device using manual patterns)
3. If there is a material difference that you cannot correct, you can do you final calibration with manual patterns.
Okay, I totally misunderstood that

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post #10635 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 05:23 PM
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Ok, help and advice needed...

Just got a Spyder4pro meter to replace my Eye 1 that for some reason stopped working. Trying to dial in my new TCL 55R615.In the argyll setup I've chosen "LCD White LED IPS" is this a good choice for a full array LED display? Seems the best option. It's been a few years since I've done this, learning curve ahead...
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post #10636 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
Ok, help and advice needed...

Just got a Spyder4pro meter to replace my Eye 1 that for some reason stopped working. Trying to dial in my new TCL 55R615.In the argyll setup I've chosen "LCD White LED IPS" is this a good choice for a full array LED display? Seems the best option. It's been a few years since I've done this, learning curve ahead...
1. I highly recommend returning the spider and get at least an i1 Display Pro. Spiders are known for acquiring inconsistent accurate measurements.

2. It's best to use a spectrometer profile. I recommend buying or renting (i1Pro 2 or better), so you can create your own. This will give you the best accuracy possible for your colorimeter with that display type.

3. Use the correct display type profile. Unnecessary if you create a spectrometer profile. To find your display type, either ask in the official thread for that TV or call the manufacturer. They usually don't list the display type on the product page.
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Last edited by skschatzman; 05-12-2018 at 05:39 AM.
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post #10637 of 11708 Old 05-11-2018, 11:21 PM
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This software is glitching like crazy, keeps saying "meter in wrong placement" I have tried everything.

Worked fine the other day, now its not?

Any ideas?

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post #10638 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 02:29 AM
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Guys i need some advice.
Long time user of HCFR which i love and kudos to @Zoid for it.
I have calibrated 4-5 tv's of myne and from friends with my latest calibration of my sony zd9 where i used the chromecast ability that the tv has and hcfr sent the patterns to it for sdr and hdr without a problem.
My problem arises with a LG B7 that i want to calibrate but i dont know what extra i will need some there is no chromecast support inbuilt.
I got a i1d3 and a i1 pro2 to make matrix for my i1d3. I have a laptop that i normally use that has an old nvidia and this is where hcfr relies.
What i need for hdr calibration? Or dv? My friend has a up970 lg uhd player so @mascior paterns is my only option in bluray disc?
Or i can buy an external chromecast that hcfr can use to turn hdr on in the tv to send its inbuilt patterns?

A help will be appreciated, thx
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post #10639 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
This software is glitching like crazy, keeps saying "meter in wrong placement" I have tried everything.

Worked fine the other day, now its not?

Any ideas?

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What kind of meter? If it's an i1d3 make sure the diffuser cover is flipped back unless you are using it in ambient mode.
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post #10640 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueChris View Post
I have calibrated 4-5 tv's of myne and from friends with my latest calibration of my sony zd9 where i used the chromecast ability that the tv has and hcfr sent the patterns to it for sdr and hdr without a problem.
How do you switch between SDR and HDR on the Chromecast?
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post #10641 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
How do you switch between SDR and HDR on the Chromecast?
yeap my mistake you are right. I dont have a way but i think Sony works differently than LG and only needs SDR calibration.

Either way anyone can recommend something? i still think my only way is the @mascior patterns for me.. correct?
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post #10642 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 08:43 AM
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yeap my mistake you are right. I dont have a way but i think Sony works differently than LG and only needs SDR calibration.

Either way anyone can recommend something? i still think my only way is the mascior patterns for me.. correct?
The only other options I can think of are:
- If your laptop graphics card can send HDR, or
- Your TV can be placed manually in HDR mode
- Use these patterns with a HDR media player:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...terns-set.html
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post #10643 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The only other options I can think of are:
- If your laptop graphics card can send HDR, or
- Your TV can be placed manually in HDR mode
- Use these patterns with a HDR media player:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...terns-set.html

Or...


for laptop generated patterns you can use a HDFury Linker, Integral or Vertex between your laptop and display (HDMI Connection) and inject HDR metadata to put your display into HDR mode.
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post #10644 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post
Or...


for laptop generated patterns you can use a HDFury Linker, Integral or Vertex between your laptop and display (HDMI Connection) and inject HDR metadata to put your display into HDR mode.
This will also work if you have a chromecast or rPi plugged into the HDFury device and if it's a Vertex, the metadata is automatically generated by HCFR for HDR10, HLG, and DolbyVision* modes in the latest test version 3.5.1.6

*[Laptop and grayscale only atm]
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post #10645 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What kind of meter? If it's an i1d3 make sure the diffuser cover is flipped back unless you are using it in ambient mode.
Been trying to PM you, where do I donate at? Anybody with this much work deserves compensation

I had it in display mode but kept reverting back to ambient and my room has zero light.

I just had a bit if a melt down, couldn't figure out the sensor, then hit my head on height speaker lol!

Is there a issue with using a 64 bit 'll laptop with 32bit HCFR?

Either its this new laptop "Hp Omen" supposed to be good but I have other opinions on that.

The software when using gets locked up, stops responding then I have to close it down.

If continuous measuring the button stops responding ect.

Just wondering if that is normal?

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post #10646 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
Been trying to PM you, where do I donate at? Anybody with this much work deserves compensation
The donation links are in the first post

Quote:
I had it in display mode but kept reverting back to ambient and my room has zero light.
It reverts to ambient mode not because of presence of ambient light, but because the diffuser cover is not completely flipped open.

Quote:
Is there a issue with using a 64 bit 'll laptop with 32bit HCFR?
No, I've always used 64-bit Windows with no issues.

Quote:
The software when using gets locked up, stops responding then I have to close it down.
That may have something to do with the mode. If it detects the wrong mode HCFR expects you to correct it before it will respond to other commands.
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post #10647 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The donation links are in the first post


It reverts to ambient mode not because of presence of ambient light, but because the diffuser cover is not completely flipped open.


No, I've always used 64-bit Windows with no issues.


That may have something to do with the mode. If it detects the wrong mode HCFR expects you to correct it before it will respond to other commands.
Diffuser cover was completely open and flipped back

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post #10648 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 02:27 PM
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If I am doing a continuous measure the X button to stop measuring freezes.then of course none of the other controls are available because it thinks its measuring ect
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The donation links are in the first post


It reverts to ambient mode not because of presence of ambient light, but because the diffuser cover is not completely flipped open.


No, I've always used 64-bit Windows with no issues.


That may have something to do with the mode. If it detects the wrong mode HCFR expects you to correct it before it will respond to other commands.
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post #10649 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
1. I highly recommend returning the spider and get at least an i1 Display Pro. Spiders are known for acquiring inconsistent accurate measurements.

2. It's best to use a spectrometer profile. I recommend buying or renting (i1Pro 2 or better), so you can create your own. This will give you the best accuracy possible for your colorimeter with that display type.

3. Use the correct display type profile. Unnecessary if you create a spectrometer profile. To find your display type, either ask in the official thread for that TV or call the manufacturer. They usually don't list the display type on the product page.
Thanks, I'd love an i1 Pro, but it's not in the budget, I was pushing it to get the Spyder4Pro used for $90 on eBay... It's replacing an even cheaper old meter that I was OK with. Feel it's a good step up for my old Eye 1, at least I hope so.

Ran a few sweeps on my new TCL 6 Series and am quite happy with the results. First time using the 11 point gray scale setup. Once I got used to it I liked it. Went back and touched up my 10 year old Samsung B series LCD with only 2 options and it was much harder to dial in. To this day I'm amazed at what a difference just getting the gray scale right can have on a display.
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post #10650 of 11708 Old 05-12-2018, 05:40 PM
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Dominic, just remove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The donation links are in the first post


It reverts to ambient mode not because of presence of ambient light, but because the diffuser cover is not completely flipped open.


No, I've always used 64-bit Windows with no issues.


That may have something to do with the mode. If it detects the wrong mode HCFR expects you to correct it before it will respond to other commands.
Dominic, just realize you said "mode" what do you mean by that?

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