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post #10921 of 11714 Old 08-18-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
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Originally Posted by Evilematt View Post
Hi, I’ve been a long time user of HCFR and have recently picked up an OEM i1 Pro 2, which HCFR will recognise and then throw out the error ‘EEPROM key table too big or small’. I was wondering if there are any plans to update the i1 drivers to allow use of this meter with HCFR at all? Someone helpfully pointed out in a thread I started, that this is what will be causing the issue. Many thanks!
Hi, probably you have a UV Cut version of the meter, some (branded or X-Rite) UV Cut i1PRO2's are limited (from their firmware) to work in M2 mode only, so when you connect them in LightSpace/CalMAN/HCFR, the meter is working in compatibility (i1PRO1) mode, so you are loosing the initial auto-drifting correction procedure the i1PRO2 has.

For example the Xerox i1PRO2 UV Cut (which is i1PRO2 as instrument visually) is not recognized as i1PRO2 from CalMAN, but as X-Rite i1Monitor, so works as i1PRO1 compatibility mode.
It is indeed the Xerox i1PRO2 UV Cut. My best bet is to just get rid off the meter and get a proper one. Thank you for your help!
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post #10922 of 11714 Old 08-18-2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Evilematt View Post
It is indeed the Xerox i1PRO2 UV Cut. My best bet is to just get rid off the meter and get a proper one. Thank you for your help!
Something important when you buy i1PRO2 is when it's been manufactured, there is a month/year marking to the i1PRO2 sticker with serial number.



For example, EFI/NEC has discontinued these i1PRO2 meters some years before, so any stock available are old stock of meters. (even if you find a brand new).

So the meter will out of certification period, see there more info.

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post #10923 of 11714 Old 08-18-2018, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Something important when you buy i1PRO2 is when it's been manufactured, there is a month/year marking to the i1PRO2 sticker with serial number.



For example, EFI/NEC has discontinued these i1PRO2 meters some years before, so any stock available are old stock of meters. (even if you find a brand new).

So the meter will out of certification period, see there more info.
Myne is 1 years old and i will sent it to xrite for recertificate, this procedure is not doable anymore?
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post #10924 of 11714 Old 08-18-2018, 06:33 AM
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Myne is 1 years old and i will sent it to xrite for recertificate, this procedure is not doable anymore?
Yes, you can send it to X-Rite re-certification center, expect about 350euros to pay.
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post #10925 of 11714 Old 08-19-2018, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, probably you have a UV Cut version of the meter, some (branded or X-Rite) UV Cut i1PRO2's are limited (from their firmware) to work in M2 mode only, so when you connect them in LightSpace/CalMAN/HCFR, the meter is working in compatibility (i1PRO1) mode, so you are loosing the initial auto-drifting correction procedure the i1PRO2 has.
I doubt they are operating in compatibility mode - they respond as an i1pro2, so the X-Rite driver will driver them as an i1pro2.
They are missing certain features that a retail i1pro2 has though, so naturally those features can't be used. One of the features missing is the wavelength calibration LED, so of course the driver won't attempt to do wavelength drift procedure.
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For example the Xerox i1PRO2 UV Cut (which is i1PRO2 as instrument visually) is not recognized as i1PRO2 from CalMAN, but as X-Rite i1Monitor, so works as i1PRO1 compatibility mode.
Hmm. That's an oddity from CalMAN. The distinguishing feature of the i1Monitor is that it has a different USB PID and it doesn't have reflection mode or ambient mode. Perhaps CalMAN is calling anything without Ambient mode an i1Monitor ? - it certainly isn't basing it on the USB PID.

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter

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post #10926 of 11714 Old 08-19-2018, 01:54 AM
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I doubt they are operating in compatibility mode - they respond as an i1pro2, so the X-Rite driver will driver them as an i1pro2.
They are missing certain features that a retail i1pro2 has though, so naturally those features can't be used. One of the features missing is the wavelength calibration LED, so of course the driver won't attempt to do wavelength drift procedure.

Hmm. That's an oddity from CalMAN. The distinguishing feature of the i1Monitor is that it has a different USB VID and it doesn't have reflection mode or ambient mode. Perhaps CalMAN is calling anything without Ambient mode an i1Monitor ? - it certainly isn't basing it on the USB VID.
It's i1PRO2 Rev. E with Part No: EO2-XR-UF, CalMAN recognize it like that:



Here you can see the DisplayCAL Log.

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post #10927 of 11714 Old 08-19-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, probably you have a UV Cut version of the meter, some (branded or X-Rite) UV Cut i1PRO2's are limited (from their firmware) to work in M2 mode only, so when you connect them in LightSpace/CalMAN/HCFR, the meter is working in compatibility (i1PRO1) mode, so you are loosing the initial auto-drifting correction procedure the i1PRO2 has.

For example the Xerox i1PRO2 UV Cut (which is i1PRO2 as instrument visually) is not recognized as i1PRO2 from CalMAN, but as X-Rite i1Monitor, so works as i1PRO1 compatibility mode.
Hi Ted,
This doesn’t seem to be mentioned on your website (which is an excellent source of information).
Is there some way of identifying such versions?
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post #10928 of 11714 Old 08-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Hi Ted,
This doesn’t seem to be mentioned on your website (which is an excellent source of information).
Is there some way of identifying such versions?
Yes, good idea, once I will add these info (and some other related with USB issues), I will inform.

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post #10929 of 11714 Old 08-19-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Here you can see the DisplayCAL Log.
That's an out of date version of ArgyllCMS being used there. Current release is V2.0.1 which should work with the OEM i1pro2, Rev D UV cut replacement.

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter
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post #10930 of 11714 Old 08-20-2018, 04:54 AM
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That's an out of date version of ArgyllCMS being used there. Current release is V2.0.1 which should work with the OEM i1pro2, Rev D UV cut replacement.
When the user of that i1PRO2 asked me for some help, there where the drivers I posted the log available (as latest), so he sold the instrument.

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post #10931 of 11714 Old 08-28-2018, 01:48 AM
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Can I just say what a great program this is. I have used it for the last 2 Year’s or so to calibrate various tvs and it’s done a fantastic job.

I just bought Calman Home enthusiast for $400 and I won’t lie I am still learning the ropes on there. But ultimately I don’t see the value in Calman when you have hcfr available for free.

Maybe Calman studio is better than Calman home enthusiast, for $1600 compared to $400 it would want to offer something better. Does anyone know the difference?

But thanks again for a great program. You can check my posts in here before and the results I have gotten . But I never appreciated how great a program it is and I don’t know why Calman is seen as the better option @ $400.

I hope people are doing you right and donating.

Thanks.
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post #10932 of 11714 Old 08-29-2018, 01:19 PM
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Can I just say what a great program this is. I have used it for the last 2 Year’s or so to calibrate various tvs and it’s done a fantastic job.

I just bought Calman Home enthusiast for $400 and I won’t lie I am still learning the ropes on there. But ultimately I don’t see the value in Calman when you have hcfr available for free.

Maybe CalΜΑΝ studio is better than CalΜΑΝ home enthusiast, for $1600 compared to $400 it would want to offer something better. Does anyone know the difference?

But thanks again for a great program. You can check my posts in here before and the results I have gotten . But I never appreciated how great a program it is and I don’t know why Calman is seen as the better option @ $400.

I hope people are doing you right and donating.

Thanks.
Hi, any calibration software for manual cal can provide exact the same end results, since its a graphical presentation of what your meter is reading. So when you perform manual cal, whatever software you will use, the end results will be the same, the interface is different only.

With HCFR you can use expensive instruments also, like Klein, JETI, while these are available to professional license levels of CalMAN (Studio for example).

CalMAN support additionally 3D LUT, but you can use the DisplayCAL (if you want to stay at free software solutions).

There differences also about what kind of hardware (external generators, LUT boxes, DDC capability etc.) its supported between CalMAN Studio vs. Enthusiast.

CalMAN Enthusiast support consumer devices while Studio support professional, see there the table: https://calman.spectracal.com/feature-matrix.html

There difference to annual fees you have to pay to get updates/support, see the differences here: https://store.portrait.com/all-access.html

If you want to ask something about CalMAN, there separate thread for this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...ssion-153.html

Zoyd has done wonderful job with HCFR and worth to donate, to keep it alive
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post #10933 of 11714 Old 09-01-2018, 05:26 PM
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I am following the guide listed in the useful links http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 and am using the AVSHD709 Test Disk which is listed as well

I have made it to part 5 brightness but the patterns i have are different, it just has a solid box in the middle and no bars on the sides and the instructions in that guide are based on those bars so i am not sure how to continue

Is there a different guide or do i need to buy the digital video essentials disk?

The updated guide uses chromapure so that doesnt help either
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post #10934 of 11714 Old 09-01-2018, 06:56 PM
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I am following the guide listed in the useful links http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 and am using the AVSHD709 Test Disk which is listed as well

I have made it to part 5 brightness but the patterns i have are different, it just has a solid box in the middle and no bars on the sides and the instructions in that guide are based on those bars so i am not sure how to continue

Is there a different guide or do i need to buy the digital video essentials disk?

The updated guide uses chromapure so that doesnt help either
That diagram is based on the pattern from the DVE disc. However, the concept is the same if you use the Black Clipping pattern from the AVSHD disc - 16 should be solid black; 18 should be visible; 17 may or may not be visible.
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post #10935 of 11714 Old 09-02-2018, 01:05 AM
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That diagram is based on the pattern from the DVE disc. However, the concept is the same if you use the Black Clipping pattern from the AVSHD disc - 16 should be solid black; 18 should be visible; 17 may or may not be visible.

Ahh thanks that helped
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post #10936 of 11714 Old 09-02-2018, 01:11 AM
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I am at the RBG low and high end part of this posted tutorial http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457, i have gone into the color management section and adjusted the red and blue color saturation to the max and minimum because on HCFR the x and y values werent really changing much at all

Also the LG Oled has other colors such as cyan and magenta, but the tutorial does not reflect those
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post #10937 of 11714 Old 09-02-2018, 04:29 AM
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I am at the RBG low and high end part of this posted tutorial http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457, i have gone into the color management section and adjusted the red and blue color saturation to the max and minimum because on HCFR the x and y values werent really changing much at all
They are totally different, RGB Low and High are for grey scale, CMS controls are for colours. Do not mix up the two,
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post #10938 of 11714 Old 09-02-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by xboxhaxorz View Post
I am following the guide listed in the useful links http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 and am using the AVSHD709 Test Disk which is listed as well

I have made it to part 5 brightness but the patterns i have are different, it just has a solid box in the middle and no bars on the sides and the instructions in that guide are based on those bars so i am not sure how to continue

Is there a different guide or do i need to buy the digital video essentials disk?

The updated guide uses chromapure so that doesnt help either
Hi, that guide is a bit outdated, about meter settings recomendation and other stuff current HCFR version is different.



That brightness pattern is not ideal for modern TV calibration, the bars you see to the left/right side are -4% below Reference black and +4% and +2%.



-4% is flashing bar 7, +2% is flashing bar 20 and +4 is flashing bar 25, so its not ideal to use that pattern for adjustment of your near black because you are missing to see what is happening to 17,18,19 and to below reference black (15 etc.)

Since you are using my disk, the correct patterns for check/calibrate near black are Brightness Flashing Bars or Advanced Brightness Flashing Bars (there others also), just the above were examples to show what some basic patterns are doing.

I have just designed the examples for Brightness patterns (in RGB cube space presentation):





There a lot of patterns to evaluate near black / brightness setup you can use (the digital levels for each pattern are shown to that link):

Advanced Brightness Flashing Bars Pattern (Pre-Calibration Tools Page)
Advanced Brightness Black & White Flashing Bars (Pre-Calibration Tools Page)
Black & White Steps (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
Black & White Tunnel (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
Black & White Bars (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
7-Color Low-High (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
Black Level (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
Black Square Tunnel (Color Reproduction 1 Page)
Grayscale Full Steps (Color Reproduction 2 Page)
Black Tunnel (Color Reproduction 1 Page)

The Advanced Brightness Flashing Bars Pattern which based in design with the AVSHD Disk Brightness Flashing Bar Patterns but the Gray Bars only bars has been replaced with 7 Color Gray+RGBCMY Bars.

This may provide the choice of a different value of Brightness Setting or to the 5/10% Gray RGB Balance adjustment to a value that will reduce the problems that can be visible by viewing these Flashing Bars.

Note

I have added ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' text to the left side of the pattern that is flashing for every 2 seconds, like the flashing bars.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder ''This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

Also it's important to find your best Brightness setting which will not lift your black level (reduce your contrast ratio); display that Brightness Pattern and pause when the flashing bars are static and visible.

After that place your meter at the middle left area where you see total black (bars 2-10 as example) and take a black reading with your meter with your Brightness setting @ 50,51,52,53 etc.

Doing this you will find the setting which is not increasing your black level luminance while at your right side you will see which near black bars you see at the same time.

If the user has plans to learn and perform a complete calibration calibration, starting from investing to a good colorimeter (X-Rite i1Display PRO is a great choice) then he can check the Near Black Luminance according to the target gamma to decide which combination of settings is giving better near black details using the 6-Point Near Black Chapter (0.5-1-2-3-4-5%):



It contains the following patches:

0% Black (RGB Triplet: 16.16.16)
0.5% Gray (RGB Triplet: 17.17.17)
1% Gray (RGB Triplet: 18.18.18)
2% Gray (RGB Triplet: 20.20.20)
3% Gray (RGB Triplet: 23.23.23)
4% Gray (RGB Triplet: 25.25.25)
5% Gray (RGB Triplet: 27.27.27)



For CalMAN Enthusiast or other license level which have the capability to load custom designed workflows, he can use the Ted's Pre-Calibration Tools Workflow for CalMAN 5 users -> Near Black Layout page to take measurements and evaluate.

For HCFR, then he can use that CalMAN 6-Point Near Black chapter...



...by selecting from HCFR's Preferences -> ''References'' Tab -> ''Color Checker Patterns'' drop down menu list the selection of the measurement run you want to perform.

Select ''CM 6-Point Near Black'' if you want to measure using CalMAN's 6-Point Near Black Chapter.

An alternative way to measure the any of the 16,17,18,19,20...until 25 level you like; is to load the Brightness Flashing Bars Pattern and pause it:



Each bar is large enough to place your meter in contact above to each bar and measure the level you want.

Another example of pattern to evaluate your near black is the Black Tunnel:



This is a pattern which has flashing boxes. The picture you see here, it doesn't have the original pattern digital levels, I have lift the brightness by 150% using Photoshop to the whole image; for being easier to the users to see all the areas of that pattern at that example.

The things which have to flash is the 17 boxes, the text which say 17 (large letters are the center left top side, left bottom side) or 0.5% (at center right side)

Also at bottom left side, no box should be visible, because all boxes are from 16 till 8. Only the letters which say 17 has to be visible and flashing.

This is good for checking if a wrong brightness setting will lift black levels.

There also letters which say 'This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible'' The letters have 16 level fill, so they have to be invisible. (If the user sees a boarder for this letters, this means that he has high it's sharpness.)

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you don't see any flashing box of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder (not fill) ''This is 2%/4% below black and should not be visible (letters fill/color is 16)This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

This is a good pattern to check near black levels to 3 parts of the screen. not only one as usual. If you imagine an area where a 2.35:1 movie covers, this is inside to the 3 areas where the pattern is flashing. Usually the corners or up-down bars are black to the most of the movies.

When you will have a meter, another way to evaluate your near black performance and without loosing your native black level; to find your best Brightness setting which will not lift your black level (reduce your contrast ratio); display a Brightness Pattern and pause when the flashing bars are static.



After that place your meter at the middle left area where you see total black (bars 2-10 as example, red circle stroke) and take a black reading with your meter with your Brightness setting @ 50,51,52,53 etc.

Doing this you will find the setting which is not increasing your black level while at your right side you will see which near black bars you see at the same time.

A lot of time when users are adjusting their brightness control looking the flashing bars of a brightness patterns, sometimes incorrect adjustment while trying to display 17 bar, it can lift the black level so this will provide poorer black level and lower contrast ratio.

I have posted at past some other instructions for pre-calibration here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post34599017

Here are some other cube presentations and other instructions: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56609032

There is a HCFR tutorial from a forum member here also: The certainly not complete user guide to get to know and calibrate your TV

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post #10939 of 11714 Old 09-04-2018, 07:03 AM
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I have started using RPG (RPI pattern generator). Even I cannot have the full confidence that what I get from its HDMI input replicates exactly what from other devices, it is a superb way for automating the most of the calibration.
On the above subject, I see that HCFR supports also GDI, MADTPG and Chrome Cast. As I can easily mirror my Windows screen using WIDI (Wi-Fi Direct), @zoyd , no way to have also that. I guess that entering directly into the TV, might be the same video level of the TV player/App,


Last, and surely a minor issue: Value of Pattern Intensity% I set in Display Images Parameter are applied also when I perform Continuous or Single measures in the Gray scale.
The way that Pattern Intensity% I have seen to work has impacts only on Primary and Secondary and relevant saturations. So gray scale measure is not affected by that. Instead, If I use 75% and click over 100 IRE of the gray scale, and then I perform a single or continuous measure, RBG sent to RPG is (191,191,191), definitely not the 255 triplets I see in the gray scale measure.

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post #10940 of 11714 Old 09-04-2018, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mick50008 View Post
Can I just say what a great program this is. I have used it for the last 2 Year’s or so to calibrate various tvs and it’s done a fantastic job.

I just bought Calman Home enthusiast for $400 and I won’t lie I am still learning the ropes on there. But ultimately I don’t see the value in Calman when you have hcfr available for free.

Maybe Calman studio is better than Calman home enthusiast, for $1600 compared to $400 it would want to offer something better. Does anyone know the difference?

But thanks again for a great program. You can check my posts in here before and the results I have gotten . But I never appreciated how great a program it is and I don’t know why Calman is seen as the better option @ $400.

I hope people are doing you right and donating.

Thanks.

Completely agree. When I started I looked at the options and realized HFCR and its support was significantly better for my needs so I just donated the price I would have paid elsewhere to it..
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post #10941 of 11714 Old 09-06-2018, 09:56 AM
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Another minor bugs for @zoyd , when he has time to fix:
I have used the Full Tilt Boogie measure for convenience (using an RPG I can take a coffe in the meawhile). Now what happens is that the white of contrast is written in the same area of the 100% white of gray scale. The result is that gamma is affected out of my control. At run time, the gray scale white looks unaffacted. But after I save and open again I find a different value , the same as in Contrast (in my case Y has changed from 89.963 to 90.760 Nits and gamma is jeopardised).

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post #10942 of 11714 Old 09-06-2018, 11:32 AM
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Hello all,

just wondering how do I get HCFR to recognise my I1 pro, also how do I profile the I1 pro to my i1d LT?

(Note I've done this stuff before but it's been a while)
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post #10943 of 11714 Old 09-07-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Anon-90 View Post
just wondering how do I get HCFR to recognise my I1 pro,
you need to use the ArgyllCMS driver, included with HCFR.

Quote:
also how do I profile the I1 pro to my i1d LT?
The process is described in one of the links in the first post.
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post #10944 of 11714 Old 09-08-2018, 12:55 AM
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[QUOTE=Dominic Chan;56771756]you need to use the ArgyllCMS driver, included with HCFR.
[/QUOTE

]Yes ArgyllCMS is there but it won't recognise it.
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post #10945 of 11714 Old 09-08-2018, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Anon-90 View Post
Yes ArgyllCMS is there but it won't recognise it.
You need to reboot in the unsigned driver mode
https://www.maketecheasier.com/insta...ers-windows10/
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post #10946 of 11714 Old 09-08-2018, 12:44 PM
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You need to reboot in the unsigned driver mode
Just tried that and HCFR still doesn't recognise it.
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post #10947 of 11714 Old 09-08-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Anon-90 View Post
Just tried that and HCFR still doesn't recognise it.
First make sure it shows in the Windows Device Manager
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post #10948 of 11714 Old 09-08-2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The process is described in one of the links in the first post.
Which link?
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post #10949 of 11714 Old 09-10-2018, 01:23 AM
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Hi.

I am trying to work out in the Agryll sensor, what display type I should be using for:

A. Sony Bravia KDL-40NX803 (LED/LCD) TV.
B. Epson 7200 projector.

Any idea's?

thanks
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post #10950 of 11714 Old 09-10-2018, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Hi.

I am trying to work out in the Agryll sensor, what display type I should be using for:

A. Sony Bravia KDL-40NX803 (LED/LCD) TV.
B. Epson 7200 projector.

Any idea's?

thanks
Hi,

A. Display Type: White LED, Reading Type: Display

B. Display Type: Projector, Reading Type: Display (Telephoto selection is for ColorMunki Spectro user, i1Display PRO don't support that mode)
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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