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post #11251 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
It might be that your pc´s HDMI output is not bit perfect.
Thanks for the suggestion.

However I only used my pc via HDMI to verify the behaviour after discovering the problem with the chromecast in the first place. The chromecast works without any pc graphics output involved since HCFR is directly controlling the chromecast as pattern generator.

Since both the chromecast as my pc (actually 2 different pc's) result in the same erratic behaviour my conclusion is that the cause isn't the pattern generator.

Also I think still an automatic run should give the same result as a manual run, no matter if the pattern generator is bit perfect or not. Wouldn't you say so?

I suspect the tv so it would be really great if someone with a OLED C8 or E8 could do a HCFR run in these 2 ways to verify if they experience the same behaviour.
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post #11252 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
Also I think still an automatic run should give the same result as a manual run, no matter if the pattern generator is bit perfect or not. Wouldn't you say so?
A calibration is valid when your software/hardware 'automated' patch generation solution you are using is matching the readings of the same patterns from the exact player (software or stand alone device or application) you will use for movie playback.

The most of the people are very excited to use automated pattern generation solutions but they skip verify that very important step, so they have performed a 'virtually' good calibration in dE charts, but it will be required to be verified from the actual movie playback device also.

There more details here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57367752

You just need to use some patterns which are bit perfect for HCFR to compare them with the hardware/software patch generation, to have the same patch window size also.

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post #11253 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
A calibration is valid when your software/hardware 'automated' patch generation solution you are using is matching the readings of the same patterns from the exact player (software or stand alone device or application) you will use for movie playback.
The OP used exactly the same pattern source and pattern size for auto and manual. The only difference is auto runs through the entire sequence of patterns on its own; manual measures the patterns one by one as selected by the user.
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post #11254 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The OP used exactly the same pattern source for auto and manual. The only difference is auto runs through the entire sequence of patterns on its own; manual measures the patterns one by one as selected by the user.
Yes, but makes no sense to perform any kind of calibration without testing that I posted. ChromeCast is known that is not bit-perfect, but a software code-offset of HCFR is reducing the digital errors to +-1 LSB (Least Significant Bit).

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post #11255 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes, but makes no sense to perform any kind of calibration without testing that I posted. ChromeCast is known that is not bit-perfect, but a software code-offset of HCFR is reducing the digital errors to +-1 LSB (Least Significant Bit).
The question in this case is not on the accuracy of the calibration, but on the repeatable difference in measurement results between auto and manual, when the same patterns are used for the two.
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post #11256 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The question in this case is not on the accuracy of the calibration, but on the repeatable difference in measurement results between auto and manual, when the same patterns are used for the two.
Right, which is an additional added in-accuracy to the patch generation solution the user is using.

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post #11257 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 09:18 AM
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Ted, I totally agree. But if you think that verification of the pattern generator is important than you will surely also agree that a manual measurement of the exact same series of patterns should give the exact same result as the automatic measurement? Being able to do reliable, repeatable measurement is as essential as verifying the accuracy of the pattern generator vs the actual source used, if you ask me.

As Dominic points out correctly, I simply cannot reproduce the same gamma result when using the greyscale auto run vs doing the exact same but then by pressing the measure button for each pattern with my own hands, whatever I try. This is problematic.

Because the manual mode briefly (half a second, I am quick ) shows the chromecast homescreen (a dimmed photo) between every measurement patch and the auto mode jumps directly from patch to patch, one would suspect it has something to do with local heating of the test spot.
As you know with an OLED (at least an LG OLED) the output gets brighter the longer you leave a bright patch on the screen, it is not constant in time. When you do an auto-greyscale run, there is always a grey patch visible without any pause in between, which of course causes the panel to heat more and more during the course of the measurement. Even those 60 seconds of measurement time for a 20-point greyscale is enough to distort the result a bit because the last, brightest patches will be the ones that will deviate the most due to the heat that has been building up. After the panel cools a bit and you repeat say the 100% measurement it will be a bit lower. The more it cools the lower it gets.

However, there seems to be more to it than just heating of the panel, because as you can see even in the low regions (5%-30%) there is clearly a difference in the gamma graph. As much as I do not want to believe that HCFR is the source of the problem, if the first 5% grey measurements are already different using the manual vs auto method, the tv has no way of "knowing" if the mode is manual or auto since it is only the first measurement...

So I am stil torn between HCFR and the tv for the cause of this. Anyway, the distinct and repetitive stepping pattern does show that there is something not reacting very linear, either in HCFR or in the tv.

I am not sure how to get to the cause of this problem. I am now even planning to let HCFR do an auto run and then measure each patch simultaneously with a second meter and a diffent program to verify if the patch itself is off or just the value reported by HCFR. Or do an "auto" HCFR run and force a different image between every test patch: increasing the latency of the measurement to a high value would give me enough time switch to a different source between every measurement, thus refreshing the image in between patches.

(By the way, I have run a lot of tests already and compared and verified the results of my pc, the chromecast and using your and some other (GCD) test pattern disk with the internal player and also a Blu-ray player connected via HDMI3. The greyscale results using these sources are very close, so close even that I could suffice using the same settings for these sources.)

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post #11258 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
Ted, I totally agree. But if you think that verification of the pattern generator is important than you will surely also agree that a manual measurement of the exact same series of patterns should give the exact same result as the automatic measurement? Being able to do reliable, repeatable measurement is as essential as verifying the accuracy of the pattern generator vs the actual source used, if you ask me.

As Dominic points out correctly, I simply cannot reproduce the same gamma result when using the greyscale auto run vs doing the exact same but then by pressing the measure button for each pattern with my own hands, whatever I try. This is problematic.
The problem you are experiencing it very strange and the anomalies you find in gamma are not something normal, from step to step you have large variations.

Also when you compare different patch solutions, you have to use the exact same size, but it will not provide such big difference when you have peak output about 100 nits.

If you have seen to my calibration disk, when you change manually a pattern, it has 2sec black frame, so this helps to cool down the panel:


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post #11259 of 11794 Old 01-08-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
Hi. My x35 was also pushing green with default settings. Are these measurements taken from the screen or straight from projector because max luminance is quite high at 77 ftL considering the lamp is 1200 h old? Also the measured gamma is way off at 1.79 so there are big luminance errors all around (picture: compare Y targets against measured Y).


In my case I´ve chosen to sacrifice the RGB balance of 100 % luminance and concentrated getting grey scale from 0-95 % as good as possible. I have calibrated the 1:1.85 aspect ratio picture using only the adjustable gamma points. I use the same gamma (preset 2.6) for 1:2.35 AR but use also 2 point grey scale adjustment to get it right because RGB balance changes when picture is zoomed bigger.


You could measure different gamma presets (all settings default) to find out which one is closest to your target 2.3. Then measure different color temperature presets to find out if any of them has an acceptable RGB balance at 90 or 95 % luminance and use that preset as a base for further adjustments. Then use the adjustable gamma points to calibrate grey scale. Especially at the dark end with 5, 10, 15 % point you have to check if they interact with each other. Then fine tune gamma (Y values) with white point adjustment. You could also lower the contrast to make 100 % luminance better if there is still enough brightness measured from the screen ( Y 12-16 ftL).


10 % point not responding to adjustment seems weird. In my case every adjustment click is detected by the meter. I think when bulb ages it looses red color the most so excessive blue & green at 100 % may result from that. Lowering contrast may help with this.


There is also a picture of my gamma adjustment. As you see they are quite warped near black and white.
Thanks northrob for your input and informative tips. How are you taking your measurements from the screen? Distance, pattern size, etc.?

These measurements were taken form the projector lens with diffuser in place on my 1d3. I have since performed another set of measurements about 5'-0" away with the probe facing the screen at a 10.5 deg. angle in my FOV per ConnecTEDDD's recommendations above with 10% window patterns and have since obtained much better readings and calibration results (less green gain cut) but I plan on performing another calibration run tonight to dial in the gamma better especially in the lower 5%, 10% & 15% range.

I have been reading over on the jvc-rs40-x3-calibration-thread and picked up some very informative tips/ recommendations/ information in that thread even though its for two generation older models I plan on trying some of the techniques on my next calibration run.

In the jvc-rs40-x3-calibration-thread JonStatt indicated "Typically as a bulb ages, red drops off first. So normally gains are only lowered for green and blue to match the lowered red. Conversely with the offsets, you normally tend to lower red, as at the lower IREs, red is still strong." This makes sense as to why the green gain required the most adjustment.

I do have a brand new OEM bulb but I still find the projector is plenty bright for my 92" screen at 12'0" throw so I am going to calibrate to get another 400-500 hrs. on the original bulb before I swap it out.
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post #11260 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The problem you are experiencing it very strange and the anomalies you find in gamma are not something normal, from step to step you have large variations.
Well that's something I am questioning myself. Of course I can calibrate a "perfect" flat gamma.

- If I calibrate manually, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the auto greyscale sweep, I get steps.
- If I calibrate auto, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the manual greyscale sweep, I get steps too, just the other way around.

So point is that I am not sure if I have a very individual anomaly while I suspect not many (if any) people go to the trouble of double checking their calibration this way. I am afraid most hobby calibrators are utterly satisfied once they get nice looking graphs and never look back.

While I think getting nice looking graphs is easy, getting a really good calibration is not. At least, this is my experience from calibrating several LCD's, plasma's and now OLED.

In the end it is not about getting nice looking graphs, but knowing what the graphs mean in correlation to the panel, what compromises to make and how to adjust calibration method to get the best picture out of the screen.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Also when you compare different patch solutions, you have to use the exact same size, but it will not provide such big difference when you have peak output about 100 nits.
I am aware of that, for gamma and greyscale I used the same 10% window size for every measurement. I actually measured output of 100% white with several window sizes from 1%, 2%, etc to 10% and also 15% and 20%. The smaller the window size, the brighter the patch gets, even in the 1%, 2% size region. I think 10% is a sensible choice for these panels.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
If you have seen to my calibration disk, when you change manually a pattern, it has 2sec black frame, so this helps to cool down the panel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8weOnFnOtQ
Yes that is actually a good practice, although my manual test relating to pause time vs measured brightness suggest a longer pause would be even better, maybe even 10 seconds. Especially for the brightest patches. It is not convenient, slower, but I think it is better.

Still hoping for someone with a C8 or E8 willing to do an auto vs manual greyscale/gamma run...

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post #11261 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
Well that's something I am questioning myself. Of course I can calibrate a "perfect" flat gamma.

- If I calibrate manually, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the auto greyscale sweep, I get steps.
- If I calibrate auto, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the manual greyscale sweep, I get steps too, just the other way around.

So point is that I am not sure if I have a very individual anomaly while I suspect not many (if any) people go to the trouble of double checking their calibration this way. I am afraid most hobby calibrators are utterly satisfied once they get nice looking graphs and never look back.

While I think getting nice looking graphs is easy, getting a really good calibration is not. At least, this is my experience from calibrating several LCD's, plasma's and now OLED.

In the end it is not about getting nice looking graphs, but knowing what the graphs mean in correlation to the panel, what compromises to make and how to adjust calibration method to get the best picture out of the screen.
Use patterns directly you will playback manually from inside your movie playback device.

ChromeCast is proven a problematic device for its output as patch generation anyway, just you found an additional issue no other has posted about it in the past.

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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
I am aware of that, for gamma and greyscale I used the same 10% window size for every measurement. I actually measured output of 100% white with several window sizes from 1%, 2%, etc to 10% and also 15% and 20%. The smaller the window size, the brighter the patch gets, even in the 1%, 2% size region. I think 10% is a sensible choice for these panels.

Yes that is actually a good practice, although my manual test relating to pause time vs measured brightness suggest a longer pause would be even better, maybe even 10 seconds. Especially for the brightest patches. It is not convenient, slower, but I think it is better.
That kind of delay (10 seconds) is ultra large, we have performed for months 3D LUT's with (normal meter like i1Display PRO or with super-fast like Klein K-10A), measuring 5000-10000 patches which takes a lot of hours and never a delay more than 0.75 sec improved anything to panel stability, since with LightSpace we used it has drift plots to see how different delay times of black frame before any patch will improve the panel stability or not), generally 0.35 / 0.5 / 0.75 sec were good options for black frame insertion time with any meter and OLED panel used. All these for SDR, with HDR, the panels become ultra unstable.

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post #11262 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
I suspect the tv so it would be really great if someone with a OLED C8 or E8 could do a HCFR run in these 2 ways to verify if they experience the same behaviour.
I have a similar TV - the Panasonic FZ952 - which uses the same OLED panel. I've not seen any difference between calibrating with an auto-run vs manual measurements. Although I use test patterns on a USB drive that I have to manually select, even on an auto-run.

Wouldn't it make sense to set the TV back to default settings, and then see whether you get these stepped results with a manual or auto-run calibration? I would assume that default settings are unlikely to have these stepped results.

Out of the box, my FZ952 with default settings had good gamma tracking:
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post #11263 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 02:41 AM
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Thanks northrob for your input and informative tips. How are you taking your measurements from the screen? Distance, pattern size, etc.?
I´m using full field patterns and probe is facing screen at about 6 inches distance. Location is a few inches off the screen center sideways and angle is what gives the highest luminance when measured with HCFR continuous measure.

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post #11264 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Use patterns directly you will playback manually from inside your movie playback device.

ChromeCast is proven a problematic device for its output as patch generation anyway, just you found an additional issue no other has posted about it in the past.
Yes but while I suspected the chromecast in the first place, this isn't the case since double checking the behavior with 2 different pc's led to the same problem. The constant factors here are the TV and HCFR. I must conduct a test on my LED monitor to make sure the problem is with the TV, which I find the most likely.

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I have a similar TV - the Panasonic FZ952 - which uses the same OLED panel. I've not seen any difference between calibrating with an auto-run vs manual measurements. Although I use test patterns on a USB drive that I have to manually select, even on an auto-run.

Wouldn't it make sense to set the TV back to default settings, and then see whether you get these stepped results with a manual or auto-run calibration? I would assume that default settings are unlikely to have these stepped results.

Out of the box, my FZ952 with default settings had good gamma tracking:
Attachment 2508100
Thanks for this info! Good suggestion to reset te TV back to defaults. It crossed my mind but I did not like the thought having to re-enter all the 2-point, 20-point, CMS settings etc on several picturemodes (I use all expert modes with different OLED light settings).

Did you specifically check the gamma plot auto vs manual? I do not have issues with the other measurements.

I once tried something similar with an auto-run while selecting the patterns manually (timing is essential ) via the internal movie player (streaming kalibration patch video's from NAS). However at that moment I did not suspect HCFR nor the TV, so I did not save the result. I will have to repeat this test.

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post #11265 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
Well that's something I am questioning myself. Of course I can calibrate a "perfect" flat gamma.

- If I calibrate manually, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the auto greyscale sweep, I get steps.
- If I calibrate auto, I get a nice reproducible flat gamma. But if I then change my measurement mode and perform the manual greyscale sweep, I get steps too, just the other way around.

So point is that I am not sure if I have a very individual anomaly while I suspect not many (if any) people go to the trouble of double checking their calibration this way. I am afraid most hobby calibrators are utterly satisfied once they get nice looking graphs and never look back.

While I think getting nice looking graphs is easy, getting a really good calibration is not. At least, this is my experience from calibrating several LCD's, plasma's and now OLED.

In the end it is not about getting nice looking graphs, but knowing what the graphs mean in correlation to the panel, what compromises to make and how to adjust calibration method to get the best picture out of the screen.



I am aware of that, for gamma and greyscale I used the same 10% window size for every measurement. I actually measured output of 100% white with several window sizes from 1%, 2%, etc to 10% and also 15% and 20%. The smaller the window size, the brighter the patch gets, even in the 1%, 2% size region. I think 10% is a sensible choice for these panels.



Yes that is actually a good practice, although my manual test relating to pause time vs measured brightness suggest a longer pause would be even better, maybe even 10 seconds. Especially for the brightest patches. It is not convenient, slower, but I think it is better.

Still hoping for someone with a C8 or E8 willing to do an auto vs manual greyscale/gamma run...
I have had a similiar issue with my 65B6. It is the TV not the test equipment. Do a sweep, make adjustments, and then do another sweep. If the TV dwells on a screen too long, it changes.

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post #11266 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 11:45 AM
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I have had a similiar issue with my 65B6. It is the TV not the test equipment. Do a sweep, make adjustments, and then do another sweep. If the TV dwells on a screen too long, it changes.
Thanks! But I'm not sure I understand. I agree that if you leave a test pattern on the screen for longer than necessary it changes. But why would a manual sweep performed at the same speed as an auto-sweep yield different results? If I make sure that in both cases the test pattern is only visible for a second (bit longer for the lowest 2 IRE patches cause the i1 Display Pro needs that) this wouldn't make a difference?

Or do you mean something else?
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post #11267 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 12:20 PM
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ICtCp for me, has completely given my SDR 1080p disc, new life. Color, depth, shadow detail, the black level. Reflections, highlights, I've never been more impressed then I am now with my display PQ capabilities.

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post #11268 of 11794 Old 01-09-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dutchflea View Post
Thanks! But I'm not sure I understand. I agree that if you leave a test pattern on the screen for longer than necessary it changes. But why would a manual sweep performed at the same speed as an auto-sweep yield different results?
Some modern TV's (OLED ?) are very sensitive to the sequence and time that images appear on the screen. They aren't ideal targets for calibration or profiling due to this (reproduciblity is key, and dynamic processing work directly against this.) All display technologies seem to suffer from this somewhat, with LCD being the least affected, and OLED perhaps being the most affected, with CRT and Plasma somewhere in between.
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post #11269 of 11794 Old 01-10-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
I´m using full field patterns and probe is facing screen at about 6 inches distance. Location is a few inches off the screen center sideways and angle is what gives the highest luminance when measured with HCFR continuous measure.
Attached is my revised calibration file from the other night and I am very pleased with the results. The probe was placed 5'-0" from the screen at 10.5 deg. angle. I used 2-point gains at 100% to adjust RGB (reduced G & B only) as R was lowest. Clamped down manual iris to -9 and reduced contrast to -4/ brightness 0 which yields 14 ftL. I did not touch 2-point offsets to adjust low end this go around as I have been reading different views about this approach so I thought I would give it a try and the outcome appears to be positive.

I used the RGB gamma controllers to adjust RGB from 95% down to 5% while adjusting for target 2.2 gamma (average 2.24), baseline gamma preset was 2.5 - 6,500K color temp, standard color space on projector IIRC.

The only thing I could not achieve was a 0% reading for Y so I have no contrast reading in the info bar which reads (Contrast ???:1) Can I input a value in the Gamma Calculation (SDR) - Override black cd/m^2 to provide a contrast ratio or is that a no-no? If yes, what value do I input in this field for this model projector? Is it common to not obtain a read at 0% black with the id3? Was it because I clamped down the iris to -9?

Does adjusting the manual iris affect my calibration (gray scale, gamma)?

The calibration file includes measures for gray scale, primary and secondary colors.

I would greatly appreciate any comments/ recommendations regarding my calibration and the approach which I used as I am eager to expand my calibration knowledge as I plan to tackle my 65X900F next.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Color Measures1 (JVC X35) 2.2 Gamma 6500K FINAL.zip (27.5 KB, 6 views)
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post #11270 of 11794 Old 01-10-2019, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guida74 View Post
The only thing I could not achieve was a 0% reading for Y so I have no contrast reading in the info bar which reads (Contrast ???:1) Can I input a value in the Gamma Calculation (SDR) - Override black cd/m^2 to provide a contrast ratio or is that a no-no? If yes, what value do I input in this field for this model projector? Is it common to not obtain a read at 0% black with the id3? Was it because I clamped down the iris to -9?
The contrast measurement doesn’t affect anything else. If you’re really curious about it, you can take another set of measurements with the meter facing the projector lens, diffuser on. You may have to bring the meter much closer to the projector.

Quote:
Does adjusting the manual iris affect my calibration (gray scale, gamma)?
The manual iris affects the colour temperature on the late model JVCs. I’m not sure about the x35, but it’s somthing you can check out very easily.
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post #11271 of 11794 Old 01-11-2019, 08:45 AM
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Dolby Vision support?

I apologize if this question has been answered already, but a search of this thread didn't return any definitive results. Does HCFR support Dolby Vision calibration? If so, how does one load the Golden Reference file? If not, is Dolby Vision support planned?

Thanks,
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post #11272 of 11794 Old 01-11-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
I apologize if this question has been answered already, but a search of this thread didn't return any definitive results. Does HCFR support Dolby Vision calibration? If so, how does one load the Golden Reference file? If not, is Dolby Vision support planned?

Thanks,
-phil
HCFR does not support Dolby Vision calibration. It’s doubtful the feature will be added, as there are licensing requirements involved.
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post #11273 of 11794 Old 01-11-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
HCFR does not support Dolby Vision calibration. It’s doubtful the feature will be added, as there are licensing requirements involved.
Thanks for the information. It's unfortunate that Dolby charges license fees for calibration tools on top of fees to the display manufacturers and content creators.

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post #11274 of 11794 Old 01-11-2019, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The contrast measurement doesn’t affect anything else. If you’re really curious about it, you can take another set of measurements with the meter facing the projector lens, diffuser on. You may have to bring the meter much closer to the projector.

The manual iris affects the colour temperature on the late model JVCs. I’m not sure about the x35, but it’s somthing you can check out very easily.
Dominic, is it recommended to calibrate with the iris fully opened then adjust post calibration or adjust first to achieve desired lumen output?

Agree....might try next time I calibrate

Still getting mixed feedback as to the placement/ distance of the sensor in relation to the projector screen. Is there a hard set rule for this?
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post #11275 of 11794 Old 01-11-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by guida74 View Post
Dominic, is it recommended to calibrate with the iris fully opened then adjust post calibration or adjust first to achieve desired lumen output?
Iris fully open would give you the best accuracy for gamma calibration. For colour calibration I would use the actual iris. (But then again, for gamma calibration you can even have the meter facing the projector, as the gamma is dependent on relative readings.

Quote:
Still getting mixed feedback as to the placement/ distance of the sensor in relation to the projector screen. Is there a hard set rule for this?
There are always different opinions, so you will have to use some judgement.

The meter reading is more-or-less independent of the distance, as long as the pattern is large enough to cover the meter’s field of view. If you have a directional screen (e.g., ALR), then it’s best to place the meter inline with the main viewing position, but for a matte white screen the angle is not critical. This is my opinion.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-11-2019 at 05:44 PM.
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post #11276 of 11794 Old 01-12-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Iris fully open would give you the best accuracy for gamma calibration. For colour calibration I would use the actual iris. (But then again, for gamma calibration you can even have the meter facing the projector, as the gamma is dependent on relative readings.

There are always different opinions, so you will have to use some judgement.

The meter reading is more-or-less independent of the distance, as long as the pattern is large enough to cover the meter’s field of view. If you have a directional screen (e.g., ALR), then it’s best to place the meter inline with the main viewing position, but for a matte white screen the angle is not critical. This is my opinion.
"For color calibration" are you referring to grayscale adjustment? Does it matter which one you adjust first (gamma or grayscale)? Why not adjust the gamma with the manual iris set to your desired lumen output similar to the backlight setting on your LED/ LCD TV?

Presuming the manual iris increases/ decreases the entire range of luminance proportionately would you not set the iris position first to achieve desired 100% point to the calibration target (e.g., 14-16 ftL) then calibrate grayscale/ gamma?

Thanks for your reply to probe placement, makes sense....
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post #11277 of 11794 Old 01-12-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by guida74 View Post
"For color calibration" are you referring to grayscale adjustment? Does it matter which one you adjust first (gamma or grayscale)? Why not adjust the gamma with the manual iris set to your desired lumen output similar to the backlight setting on your LED/ LCD TV?

Presuming the manual iris increases/ decreases the entire range of luminance proportionately would you not set the iris position first to achieve desired 100% point to the calibration target (e.g., 14-16 ftL) then calibrate grayscale/ gamma?

Thanks for your reply to probe placement, makes sense....
The reason for my suggestion is that projectors are typically calibrated for much lower luminance than TVs (50 nits peak vs 100-300 nits). This makes it hard to read the lower level patches accurately if you stop down the iris (5% is only 0.038 nits with a gamma of 2.4).

If indeed “the manual iris increases/ decreases the entire range of luminance proportionately” then calibrating with iris full open would provide the most accurate measurements. You then stop down the iris to get to the desired peak white. If that assumption is not correct then calibrating at the actual iris opening would be required.

I often calibrate with the iris manually stopped down, then reposition the meter to face the projector at a close distance to do the 10-pt calibration. At the end of it, I measure 100% white of the screen, and make some minor adjustments to the RGB gains to account for the screen.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-12-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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post #11278 of 11794 Old 01-12-2019, 08:59 AM
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What is the best pattern box size to use for an LED TV with local dimming. If I do full screen, the backlight basically turns off and I don't get a good black override figure for my gamma.

I've been using 50% box as I was assuming that letting the black box be a bit darker would be a good compromise without the deeper than black full screen causing dark scene black crush, or smaller 10% box causing dark scene raised blacks. Is my logic following reality here?

Paul

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post #11279 of 11794 Old 01-12-2019, 10:36 AM
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Latest HCFR version?

Hiho,

I accidentally hit "instop" on my harmony remote and obliterated all my config data on my LG E6. Since I have to redo everything, I was wondering if there is a newer version of HCFR since 3.5.1.7 that fixes any of the remaining bugs.

Thanks

Web
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post #11280 of 11794 Old 01-12-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by webdove View Post
Hiho,

I accidentally hit "instop" on my harmony remote and obliterated all my config data on my LG E6. Since I have to redo everything, I was wondering if there is a newer version of HCFR since 3.5.1.7 that fixes any of the remaining bugs.

Thanks

Web
I’ve run into some issues with 3.5.1.7 and have not seen any further updates.

If you do not use Raspberry Pi for pattern generator then 3.5.1.4 is the most stable version.
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