HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 382 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11431 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Will need more info to troubleshoot. I suspect your “The grayscale measures fine, all around 3 or less” is when you measure “w/o gamma”.
Ok I will try to get a full run later today and upload it. Thanks for the help Dominic.
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post #11432 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Will need more info to troubleshoot. I suspect your “The grayscale measures fine, all around 3 or less” is when you measure “w/o gamma”.
Yup, I turned on CIE2000 and measured w/gamma and grayscale is way off. I am outputting 2084 and the projector sees that and is set for HDR(PQ) gamma which I think is correct. Here is a copy of the bad measurements
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post #11433 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Yup, I turned on CIE2000 and measured w/gamma and grayscale is way off. I am outputting 2084 and the projector sees that and is set for HDR(PQ) gamma which I think is correct. Here is a copy of the bad measurements
For projectors typically people would use a "scale factor" to reduce the diffuse white level. If I reduce it to what you're actually getting and change some roll-off parameters, it actually looks pretty good. Are you using some kind of custom EOTF curve?

The biggest deficiency is the green gamut. You can improve that by switching to the BT2020 colour profile instead of the HDR profile, although there will be some drop in the overall brightness.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-01-2019 at 10:04 AM.
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post #11434 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
For projectors typically people would use a "scale factor" to reduce the diffuse white level. If I reduce it to what you're actually getting and change some roll-off parameters, it actually looks pretty good. Are you using some kind of custom EOTF curve?

The biggest deficiency is the green gamut. You can improve that by switching to the BT2020 colour profile instead of the HDR profile, although there will be some drop in the overall brightness.

Thanks Dominic, I was using the built in HDR gamma curve, but I may have accidently left the new jvc tone mapping on during that run since I was bouncing back and forth. I will try to look into what changes you made, thanks for the help!
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post #11435 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Thanks Dominic, I was using the built in HDR gamma curve, but I may have accidently left the new jvc tone mapping on during that run since I was bouncing back and forth. I will try to look into what changes you made, thanks for the help!
Depending on what you used for the pattern source, the auto tone mapping may not be doing anything unless it receives the HDR metadata.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-28-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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post #11436 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Depending on what you used for the pattern source, the auto tone mapping map not be doing anything unless it receives the HDR metadata.
It was showing up as 4000/400 in the UI on the JVC. I can't seem to open the file you attached, give me unexpected file format error on 3.5.1.4.
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post #11437 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
It was showing up as 4000/400 in the UI on the JVC. I can't seem to open the file you attached, give me unexpected file format error on 3.5.1.4.
I didn’t change much. Just the reference white to the measured value at 50% input, the peak white (slightly), and the HDR NW parameters to 4, 0.
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post #11438 of 11475 Old 02-28-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I didn’t change much. Just the reference white to the measured value at 50% input, the peak white (slightly), and the HDR NW parameters to 4, 0.
Hmmm might be getting outside of my knowledge because I don't know how you made the decisions you did an how to compensate in the future :/
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post #11439 of 11475 Old 03-01-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
It was showing up as 4000/400 in the UI on the JVC. I can't seem to open the file you attached, give me unexpected file format error on 3.5.1.4.
I was using 3.5.1.7. The attached file has now been resaved using 3.5.1.4.
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post #11440 of 11475 Old 03-01-2019, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I was using 3.5.1.7. The attached file has now been resaved using 3.5.1.4.
Thanks Dominic, I see where you filled in my current 100IRE nits into the Target MaxL setting, how did you come up with the 20nits value for Diffuse White and the NW value of 4 and 0? Is this something I could measure in my room to change or use this value going forward ? I currently only use this profile for HDR gaming and streaming services since I use MADVR for everything else, but I would like to keep it decently accurate. Also the links to 3.5.1.7 are dead when I found it in the thread and only .4 is on the HCFR site :/
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post #11441 of 11475 Old 03-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Thanks Dominic, Also the links to 3.5.1.7 are dead when I found it in the thread and only .4 is on the HCFR site :/
+1
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post #11442 of 11475 Old 03-18-2019, 02:08 PM
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post #11443 of 11475 Old 03-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Thank you Dominic!!
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post #11444 of 11475 Old 03-20-2019, 04:05 PM
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Tried doing a quick calibration on my new JVC projector today and realized all the terminology and settings were different than my previous TVs/PJs. I think I figured it out, but wanted some advice if I went the correct route. I know there are some JVC people in here =)

For grayscale:
I used Gain and Offset under Color Temp to set 0-30, 80-100 IRE.
I then fine tuned the other levels using Picture Tone, Dark Level, and Bright level for each color under Gamma.
My gamma line had this huge drop at 90 white so I used the White Color and did -1 for Bright level which jumped it up, a little too high actually, close to 2.5.

After this I had 2.4 gamma average and colors looked pretty good, I didn't adjust colors since I am just learning on this run.

Here is the calibration results, would love some advice of how to adjust settings in JVC and if I am on the right track??

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bh...aqmEJDdsAqyWy1
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post #11445 of 11475 Old 04-02-2019, 09:01 PM
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I have a Minolta CS-100A that I am able to borrow for a few days. Problem is I don't have a cable, and so I have to take readings and input them manually. I played around wtih HCFR a little but it looks like it expects to automatically obtain readings from an attached meter. Is there a way to fill in the data points manually?

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post #11446 of 11475 Old 04-02-2019, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danlw2 View Post
I have a Minolta CS-100A that I am able to borrow for a few days. Problem is I don't have a cable, and so I have to take readings and input them manually. I played around wtih HCFR a little but it looks like it expects to automatically obtain readings from an attached meter. Is there a way to fill in the data points manually?
If you click on the Edit checkbox near the far right, it will let you enter the readings manually.
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post #11447 of 11475 Old 04-03-2019, 01:13 AM
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Can someone please explain the reason for having the option to display gray scale balance with or without gamma in HCFR? Attached are two gray scale balance graphs for the same measurement data. One is with gamma, the other without. With gamma, there is a prominent peak at 75% white and dip at 85% as well as drop in RGB levels <20%. Without gamma these peaks, dips and drops are gone.

I've always used the with gamma chart to calibrate my TV for SDR. The data I'm using here is from an HDR10 calibration. I'm not sure if that's relevant or not but I'd like to understand if I need to adjust the 75%, 85% and low IRE RGB gains as the first chart suggests, or are my current calibrations actually pretty good, as the second chart shows.
Hi Phil, becasue there display/projector with only 2-Point Balance (or 1-Point, but very rare) so using only there 2 controls you can't fix gamma errors, you can do RGB balance only.

Also in HDR10 calibration of LG's for example, you aim only to fix RGB balance errors, since the PQ transfer function tracking is baked inside to the display, so when you will try to fix Y errors you will have to apply large adjustments and this will add issues to real content later (posterization, false contouring and other issues)
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #11448 of 11475 Old 04-07-2019, 09:11 AM
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I am going to try calibrating my display again. It’s been a few years and I see things have changed.

I was using the old original “ColorHCFR” on a 32-bit laptop running Windows XP. I kept this machine alive all these years only to run ColorHCFR- all the other computers I have are Macs. I would continue to use it now (the software is still adequate to do a simple SDR calibration), but the i1display LT that I was using with it has drifted a lot, too much to apply a correction matrix.

Apparently the new i1pro I bought last week is not going to work with my existing setup.

So I guess I’ll have to start over.

I did look over the first post. I did not see anything about a Mac version.

So what I’m understanding is I need to go buy a computer.

Any tips? I assume the world’s cheapest Windows laptop will work as long as it is running Windows 10?
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post #11449 of 11475 Old 04-07-2019, 09:45 AM
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I am going to try calibrating my display again. It’s been a few years and I see things have changed.

I was using the old original “ColorHCFR” on a 32-bit laptop running Windows XP. I kept this machine alive all these years only to run ColorHCFR- all the other computers I have are Macs. I would continue to use it now (the software is still adequate to do a simple SDR calibration), but the i1display LT that I was using with it has drifted a lot, too much to apply a correction matrix.

Apparently the new i1pro I bought last week is not going to work with my existing setup.

So I guess I’ll have to start over.

I did look over the first post. I did not see anything about a Mac version.

So what I’m understanding is I need to go buy a computer.

Any tips? I assume the world’s cheapest Windows laptop will work as long as it is running Windows 10?
Does the latest version of HCFR and the drivers (earlerversions if necessary) not run on Windows XP?

A virtual machine on your Mac should work.

An HDMI output on the computer will allow you to use the automatic patterns.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-07-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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post #11450 of 11475 Old 04-07-2019, 12:55 PM
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Does the latest version of HCFR and the drivers (earlerversions if necessary) not run on Windows XP?

A virtual machine on your Mac should work.

An HDMI output on the computer will allow you to use the automatic patterns.
Good ideas, thank you!

What *didn't* work was just searching the installation CD that came with the meter. For fun I even tried running the installer but I still didn't find any useful drivers on my system after it completed. And the new x-rite app *certainly* does not run on Windows XP.

This is obviously not the right method but I couldn't quickly locate anywhere in this massive thread the instructions for where to find old drivers for a new i1 pro.

Of course at some point I need to start using the new version of HCFR, I realize, I was just seeing if it was a simple matter to just upgrade the sensor hardware while leaving everything else the same.

So before I buy a computer I will try a couple things and report back.

Thanks again..
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post #11451 of 11475 Old 04-07-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NxNW View Post
What *didn't* work was just searching the installation CD that came with the meter. For fun I even tried running the installer but I still didn't find any useful drivers on my system after it completed. And the new x-rite app *certainly* does not run on Windows XP.
Here's the link to the xrite drivers (back to Windows Vista)
https://www.xrite.com/service-suppor...n2000_xp_vista

Note, however, HCFR uses ArgyllCMS drivers, not OEM drivers.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-07-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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post #11452 of 11475 Old 04-07-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Here's the link to the xrite drivers (back to Windows Vista)
https://www.xrite.com/service-suppor...n2000_xp_vista

Note, however, HCFR uses ArgyllCMS drivers, not OEM drivers.
Thank you again. I did try to get the old version to use the drivers you pointed to but after a minute or two of fiddling with it I gave up and just installed the new version of HCFR instead.



It ran fine, first try.



And I didn't even have to buy a new computer


I do appreciate the prompt and helpful replies! Can't wait to get some readings later tonight...
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post #11453 of 11475 Old 04-09-2019, 09:27 PM
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Color space to calibrate new monitor?

Just bought a new monitor (Acer VG271UP). This monitor claims to cover 95% of the DCI-P3 color gamut. Which color space should I calibrate to, DCI-P3 or sRGB? I was using an older version of HCFR (3.107) and didn't realize I hadn't installed the new version so I calibrated to sRGB. Colors looked too saturated. In the meantime, I switched the monitor to sRGB mode and used DisplayCal to create a profile. I'm using an old Spyder 2 which I realize is probably worse than no colorimeter. I'm going to buy a Colormunki Display in the near future.
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post #11454 of 11475 Old 04-10-2019, 06:37 PM
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Hi Guys

I have an Epson EMP-TW2000 projector (same as the 1080B, I believe), as the video output for my HTPC.

I finally realised the only way I can properly calibrate the projector is with a colorimeter and software like HCFR.

I can buy a 2nd hand (very little use) X-Rite Colormunki Display.
I know a i1 Display Pro would be a much better choice, but I can buy the Colormunki really cheap and just need to know would the Colormunki Display be suitable to calibrating my projector?

I have read most of Stereomandan's excellent thread (although very old) on calibrating old Epson projectors, and has convinced me to try and properly calibrate my projector.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ub-7500ub.html
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post #11455 of 11475 Old 04-11-2019, 05:52 AM
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For HCFR (and most others) the Colormunki should be almost as good as the DisplayPro. The biggest difference is in the speed of reading. The accuracy of the final calibration would be just as good.
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post #11456 of 11475 Old 04-11-2019, 02:39 PM
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For HCFR (and most others) the Colormunki should be almost as good as the DisplayPro. The biggest difference is in the speed of reading. The accuracy of the final calibration would be just as good.
Thanks.
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post #11457 of 11475 Old 04-14-2019, 10:17 AM
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HDR10 white balance

Hi All, I ran a one point at 70 IRE and a two point at 30 and 70 IRE HDR10 white balance on a samsung nu8000 and don't know if either is usable. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #11458 of 11475 Old 04-14-2019, 01:51 PM
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Hi
I have a Newbie question while waiting for my Colormunki Display to arrive.

I have read a fair bit about calibration, and colour (Tom Huffman, etc.).
But is there a step by step guide or walkthrough to using HCFR?
Or is the ChromaPure program similar enough to HCFR (same buttons, menu,etc), to be able to use Curtpalme's "Calibration Guide for Dummies" as a guide?

Another quick question :-
I will be calibrating my projector which is mainly connected (HDMI) to my windows pc as a HTPC, so I intend to run the HCFR through the HTPC.
What would be the best patterns to use?
I've seen the suggestion to use madTPG, but if they would be the best patterns for my situation, how do you integrate them into HCFR?

BTW, on page 1 of this thread, the link "Display Calibration - Part I" leads to a "file missing" page.

Last edited by Nordo; 04-14-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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post #11459 of 11475 Old 04-14-2019, 02:14 PM
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Once you get your HCF install settings correct, which you can do right now while waiting for the meter, it's pretty straight forward assuming you are looking to do basic 2.2 power law gamma on a TV.

Use the RGB - gamma viewer window. There is a continuous measure button, select 80%, press the continuous measure button, and adjust your TV's 2 point Gain settings. Then stop the measure, select 30%, press the continuous measure button, and adjust the TV's 2 point Bias settings. That should get you in the ballpark, then move to 10 point white balance controls in the TV, and do the same for each point as you did for the Gain and Bias, only with R G B in each of the 10 points, starting at 100 and working your way backwards to 10. Highlight each point by selecting it on the chart first before initiating the constant measure readings. Then do a greyscale sweep to see how the finished result looks. You may want to go and attack any of the 10 point areas that may be slightly off after the top to bottom continuous measure calibration.

Color space calibrations are a bit more tricky.

That's how I do simple REC709 SDR 2.2 power law gamma white balance. I find the built in pattern generator in a 10% box to be fine for SDR calibrating...make sure you have selected a pattern display option that allows you to view the lower left RGB data for your adjustments while the box is displayed in the center of the TV, or use a secondary monitor for just HCFR and MadTPG on the target TV. The second option is how you would have to do HDR.

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
Hi
I have a Newbie question while waiting for my Colormunki Display to arrive.

I have read a fair bit about calibration, and colour (Tom Huffman, etc.).
But is there a step by step guide or walkthrough to using HCFR?
Or is the ChromaPure program similar enough to HCFR (same buttons, menu,etc), to be able to use Curtalme's "Calibration Guide for Dummies" as a guide?

Another quick question :-
I will be calibrating my projector which is mainly connected (HDMI) to my windows pc as a HTPC, so I intend to run the HCFR through the HTPC.
What would be the best patterns to use?
I've seen the suggestion to use madTPG, but if they would be the best patterns for my situation, how do you integrate them into HCFR?

BTW, on page 1 of this thread, the link "Display Calibration - Part I" leads to a "file missing" page.

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #11460 of 11475 Old 04-14-2019, 06:36 PM
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Thanks Paul😎🍷
I'll have a bit of a play tonight.
BTW, the main display is a 1080p projector (old Epson TW2000 - same as the 1080B).
The reason I'm so keen on getting into calibration and HCFR is that the pj has a full CMS including a gamma that can be manually adjusted.

Also because the home theatre is in a completely blacked out room, I was thinking of aiming at a higher gamma than 2.2 or 2.22. For instance, BT1886 looks like it would suit a light-controlled room (but I'm getting ahead of myself, aren't I?).

EDIT :
Had a play around with HCFR. Took me awhile to figure out how to bring up the windows,etc. you talk about.
However, I was only using my personal computer's screen as the display, which (as far as I can tell) doesn't have the high and low range controls. Not sure whether I should be looking at the controls in the monitor, or the controls for the video card (Nvidia).

EDIT2 :
Tried your preliminary method on my Projector, with HCFR running in my HT computer (Nvidia GeForce GT1030 video card).
When running the 80% or 30% continuous tests, the R,G & B levels were moving up and down slightly as each test ran, which caused the dE to fluctuate madly from 0.2. up to 3.7!!!
Adjusting the R,G and B levels, didn't appear to have any effect, for both Gain and Offset (Epson call Bias - "Offset").
Not sure what I am doing wrong.

Last edited by Nordo; 04-15-2019 at 06:48 PM.
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