HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 384 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11491 of 12071 Old 04-26-2019, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
Thanks Dominic, will do.
Currently the meter is tilted up (approx 40deg) aimed at the centre of my 54" x 96" matt white screen.
What am I looking for when moving the meter?
Do I keep moving it back from the screen until the "Y" starts to drop, then place it at the last max "Y"?

Regarding the cast shadow, I tried to find out what the reading angle of the meter's lens was, but X-Rite don't list it.
There was a document on the Spectracal site listing the angles of view of different meters including the x-rite i1D3 (which should also apply to the Colormunki Display), but I can’t find it now.

Supposedly the ideal meter position is at eye level in the normal viewer’s seating position, but the i1D3 field-of-view may be too wide for that, depending on the screen size. The next best thing is to move the meter closer to the screen while still placed in line with the viewer’s line is sight. With most matte white screens, however, the angle is not critical (i.e., the measurements do not vary much within a range of viewing angles).

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-26-2019 at 07:49 AM.
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post #11492 of 12071 Old 04-26-2019, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The was a document on the Spectracal site listing the angles of view of different meters including the x-rite i1D3 (which should also apply to the Colormunki Display), but I can’t find it now.
This is page 3 of that article :
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post #11493 of 12071 Old 04-26-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
This is page 3 of that article :
Thanks. I believe for the Colormunki Display one would use the C6 figures.
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post #11494 of 12071 Old 04-26-2019, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
There was a document on the Spectracal site listing the angles of view of different meters including the x-rite i1D3 (which should also apply to the Colormunki Display), but I can’t find it now.

Supposedly the ideal meter position is at eye level in the normal viewer’s seating position, but the i1D3 field-of-view may be too wide for that, depending on the screen size. The next best thing is to move the meter closer to the screen while still placed in line with the viewer’s line is sight. With most matte white screens, however, the angle is not critical (i.e., the measurements do not vary much within a range of viewing angles).
Great information (and logical when you think about it).
Thanks Dominic. 🍺👍

Just spent the morning cleaning my screen. When setting up the meter yesterday, I noticed how dirty it was.
Will jump back into calibrating this afternoon.
Learning as I go, so will go back to the start.

Last edited by Nordo; 04-26-2019 at 05:18 PM.
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post #11495 of 12071 Old 04-28-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Cinema-Scope) View Post
Question !
Should color be calibrated before adjusting gamma to 2.2 ?
And when I say color, I mean the settings for RGB Gain & Offset.


Thanks,



Yes, that's much better!



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post #11496 of 12071 Old 04-28-2019, 12:05 PM
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I bought r. masciola patterns and trying to learn how to use HCFR. Someone mentioned that I should enable "Use 10 bit targets" but the option is greyed out.

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post #11497 of 12071 Old 04-28-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
I bought r. masciola patterns and trying to learn how to use HCFR. Someone mentioned that I should enable "Use 10 bit targets" but the option is greyed out.
That option can only be turned on if you select Manual test patterns and ST.2084 HDR. However, I believe (not 100% sure) the more recent versions of the Masciola patterns no longer require this; i.e., they use 8-bit equivalent targets.
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post #11498 of 12071 Old 04-28-2019, 03:39 PM
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Erratic Colorimeter

I've spent over 20 hours trying to calibrate my Epson PJ using an old Colormunki Display.
I have been struggling to get passed White Balance.
I was often getting erratic readings, and being a beginner, I thought that was normal.
I now realise (with a bit of research) that the erratic readings are due to the Colormunki being connected to a USB 3.0 port instead of a USB 2.0 port (which I don't have).

I eventually found a suggestion from X-Rite who said that several users have solved the problem by using a powered USB 2.0 hub.
BTW, I didn't find this information on their website, I found by an independant google search.
https://www.xrite.com/service-suppor...s_with_usb_3_0

I have ordered a Belkin 4 port powered USB2.0 hub.
I'll let everyone know if this solves my problem, But I thought I would post this here in case others are having the same problem.

EDIT : I have also found other comments where users believe that the problem wasn't so much the USB 3.0, but the fact that many colorimeters need 6 volts, whereas most USB ports in laptops, etc. only provide 5 volts.
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Last edited by Nordo; 04-30-2019 at 01:44 AM.
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post #11499 of 12071 Old 04-28-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post
This is page 3 of that article :
Thanks, that's exactly what I was after.
Actually I'm quite surprised at the narrow field of view the colorimeters have.
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post #11500 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 06:39 AM
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Complete newbie trying to calibrate Rec709 in a Rec2020 shell using HCFR and R. Masciolas patterns.



I have my references set correctly (bt2020/rec709, SMPTE, etc) and greyscale turned out fine (no readings over 1.0) but for primaries/secondaries how can I set the reference to match the reference on his patch patterns? IE blue on his bt709/bt2020 pattern has values of 67.50.124 and HCFRs default is 70.48.140 making the target useless.



I have tried editing usercolor.csv in the HCFR folder and selecting User Defined in the drop down menu and it seems to ignore my changes.


Regards,


T
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post #11501 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz68 View Post
Complete newbie trying to calibrate Rec709 in a Rec2020 shell using HCFR and R. Masciolas patterns.

I have my references set correctly (bt2020/rec709, SMPTE, etc) and greyscale turned out fine (no readings over 1.0) but for primaries/secondaries how can I set the reference to match the reference on his patch patterns? IE blue on his bt709/bt2020 pattern has values of 67.50.124 and HCFRs default is 70.48.140 making the target useless.
The RGB values displayed in the left "Selected colour" window are incorrect and should be ignored. The actual values used by HCFR for Rec2020/Rec709 are:
R: 116, 74, 54
G: 103, 124, 78
B: 67, 50, 124
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post #11502 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 07:22 AM
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Right... My question is how can I change those reference values to match Masciolas patterns so I can use the color target to be more accurate.
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post #11503 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz68 View Post
Right... My question is how can I change those reference values to match Masciolas patterns so I can use the color target to be more accurate.
I don't understand. HCFR uses 67.50.124 for blue, same as Masciols's patterns, so what's the mismatch?
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-29-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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post #11504 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz68 View Post
Complete newbie trying to calibrate Rec709 in a Rec2020 shell using HCFR and R. Masciolas patterns.



I have my references set correctly (bt2020/rec709, SMPTE, etc) and greyscale turned out fine (no readings over 1.0) but for primaries/secondaries how can I set the reference to match the reference on his patch patterns? IE blue on his bt709/bt2020 pattern has values of 67.50.124 and HCFRs default is 70.48.140 making the target useless.



I have tried editing usercolor.csv in the HCFR folder and selecting User Defined in the drop down menu and it seems to ignore my changes.


Regards,


T
The User defined, I think, refers to color checker.
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post #11505 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 10:58 AM
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Im simply trying to get the reference numbers in HCFR primaries and secondaries to match Masciolas pattern reference numbers so it matches the target reading on the graphs and such. So the little arrow lines up in the middle of the target graph etc. Is this not a feature? Again, Ive tried editing usercolor.csv and tested it in "user defined" dropdown but it ignores any changes or additions ive made.
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post #11506 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 11:06 AM
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Better yet, in some of the update notes it states that we can use "user defined primaries". How do I go about doing that?
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post #11507 of 12071 Old 04-29-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajc9988 View Post
The User Defined, I think, refers to color checker.
The User Defined colours are implemented under the Colour Checker function but can be used for any colour in general.

However, in this case HCFR already implements the Rec2020/Rec709 feature so there’s no reason to get into User Defined. Also, the implementation allows saturation sweeps to be checked, not only at the gamut boundaries.
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post #11508 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 05:02 PM
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Can anyone evaluate my attached calibration and give me some pointers? I've been hammering away all day at it and it's been frustrating. As soon as the curve starts to look straight one adjustment on the high or low end skews the entire thing. This is the best I could get so far on my LG C8 2018 OLED. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

I'm using an i1 Display Pro with the WRGB Oled Profile targeting 2.2 gamma, pattern displayed on a PS3 using Ted's Lightspace Disk
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post #11509 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 05:36 PM
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How are you performing the workflow and measurements?

The quickest way I have found is the top down 10 (or 20) point after basic 2 point, with fixed black override. Use constant measure readings, do the 2 point 80% first for gain, then bias at 30%. Switch to 10/20 point and go from 100% down the line to 10%. Do a full sweep then go back 100% down to 10% again or attack an individual point as you see fit. Also, have you tried the built in patterns from HCFR?

Doing bottom up or full sweeps for each change is how I used to do things and also randomly attacking points...for 2.2 the top down process made it so much simpler. BT1886 is a bit more time consuming though and not as easy.

Paul


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Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post
Can anyone evaluate my attached calibration and give me some pointers? I've been hammering away all day at it and it's been frustrating. As soon as the curve starts to look straight one adjustment on the high or low end skews the entire thing. This is the best I could get so far on my LG C8 2018 OLED. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

I'm using an i1 Display Pro with the WRGB Oled Profile targeting 2.2 gamma, pattern displayed on a PS3 using Ted's Lightspace Disk
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post #11510 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
How are you performing the workflow and measurements?

The quickest way I have found is the top down 10 (or 20) point after basic 2 point, with fixed black override. Use constant measure readings, do the 2 point 80% first for gain, then bias at 30%. Switch to 10/20 point and go from 100% down the line to 10%. Do a full sweep then go back 100% down to 10% again or attack an individual point as you see fit. Also, have you tried the built in patterns from HCFR?

Doing bottom up or full sweeps for each change is how I used to do things and also randomly attacking points...for 2.2 the top down process made it so much simpler. BT1886 is a bit more time consuming though and not as easy.

Paul
At first continuous measures starting at 5 working up to 100 and tackled each point doing the entire 20. Didn't even do a 2 point. But found when I did the full sweep it was off. Then I played with IRE 85 and 95 and then 10. I will see about doing top down that is not something I've not tried yet. Still wrestling with whether I like a 2.2 or 2.4 gamma, the latest LG firmware made the 2.2 game darker. Not sure if this was intentional.
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post #11511 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 05:58 PM
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I would def do a simple 2 pint first, so that the gamma tracking is closer to where you need to go for the rest of the 20 points.

I found that bottom up always messed with my gamma tracking, especially if you are viewing your RGB w/gamma in the viewer. From what I can figure, the gamma is derived from the lower values, so as you adjust maybe it is retargetting above or below 100IRE...if you start at 100IRE/100%, then work backwards, you are starting from the TARGET and aligning everything else to meet it...that 0IRE black level must be a PITA?

Paul

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Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post
At first continuous measures starting at 5 working up to 100 and tackled each point doing the entire 20. Didn't even do a 2 point. But found when I did the full sweep it was off. Then I played with IRE 85 and 95 and then 10. I will see about doing top down that is not something I've not tried yet. Still wrestling with whether I like a 2.2 or 2.4 gamma, the latest LG firmware made the 2.2 game darker. Not sure if this was intentional.

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #11512 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post
At first continuous measures starting at 5 working up to 100 and tackled each point doing the entire 20. Didn't even do a 2 point. But found when I did the full sweep it was off. Then I played with IRE 85 and 95 and then 10. I will see about doing top down that is not something I've not tried yet. Still wrestling with whether I like a 2.2 or 2.4 gamma, the latest LG firmware made the 2.2 game darker. Not sure if this was intentional.
As Paul suggested - do the 2 point 80%,30% making those two good as you can by running Continuous and adjusting Red and Blue only.
Repeat this process until no further adjustments are really needed.
Then do single measurements for your 10 point (or 20 point, but that takes a lot longer and most people don't bother).
Check your dE for each level.
When trying to adjust the levels that you want to improve, don't make them perfect. Just adjust about half of what is required, then check the effect on the full range.

I also found that bias/offset adjustments of one level, effects all dE from 0% to 40%. Whereas a single level gain adjustment effects all dE from 50% up.

Last edited by Nordo; 04-30-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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post #11513 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
Then do single measurements for your 10 point (or 20 point, but that takes a lot longer and most people don't bother).
Check your dE for each level.
If you use the internal automatic patterns 20pt doesn’t take that long. The 5% point can be off and would affect shadow details.

Also, it’s best to turn on the “w/gamma” option for RGB, to make sure the gamma does get out of wack while adjusting 10/20pt.
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post #11514 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 06:24 PM
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On my Sony and Samsung TV's, I always lower G gain and bias first, as the TV's push that color hard for brightness/luminance. B is usually the next, and I kind of calibrate to whatever my peak R is capable left at MAX.

Paul

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Originally Posted by Nordo View Post
As Paul suggested - do the 2 point 80%,30% making those two good as you can by running Continuous and adjusting Red and Blue only.
Repeat this process until no further adjustments are really needed.
Then do single measurements for your 10 point (or 20 point, but that takes a lot longer and most people don't bother).
Check your dE for each level.
When trying to adjust the levels that you want to improve, don't make them perfect. Just adjust about half of what is required, then check the effect on the full range.

I also found that bias/offset adjustments of one level, effects all dE from 0% to 40%. Whereas a single level gain adjustment effects all dE from 50% up.

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #11515 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If you use the internal automatic patterns 20pt doesn’t take that long. The 5% point can be off and would affect shadow details.

Also, it’s best to turn on the “w/gamma” option for RGB, to make sure the gamma does get out of wack while adjusting 10/20pt.
Are you referring to the section with the Greyscale dE handling ' Absolute Y w/gamma' ? I could not find that option for RGB
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post #11516 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepiecesfit View Post
Are you referring to the section with the Greyscale dE handling ' Absolute Y w/gamma' ? I could not find that option for RGB
If you right-click on the RBG Graph you can see/change the option. It’s the same as Greyscale dE handling but much easier to access.
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post #11517 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 08:45 PM
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Thank you all was able to get a pretty tight mapping using the suggestions above. I might be able to get a finer adjustment but I'm already tired for the night think this is a semi success
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post #11518 of 12071 Old 04-30-2019, 10:47 PM
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I've been messing around with HCFR and R. Masciola test patterns. This is what I came up with, is it good or bad? I don't need perfection, just good enough for the average joe.




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post #11519 of 12071 Old 05-01-2019, 04:56 AM
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Anyone with a new JVC have a recommendation between calibrating with a spyder5 elite+ or JVC autocal. I have to either buy the elite+ software or a cheap PC to run JVC autocal. Trying to find out which is the better way to go.

Marantz SR7011 | Marantz MM7025 | Outlaw 5000 | Klipsch RP 8000 | Klipsch RP 504C | Klipsch RP 502S | Klipsch RP 5000 | Klipsch CDT 5650 | Polk V60 | Klipsch SPL 120 (2)|
HSU VTF3 MK5 (2) | Crown XLS 1002 | Buttkicker LFE Mini (4) | Eaton 5PX 1500|

JVC RS1000 | Silver Ticket 120” 16x9| Panasonic UB820 | Apple TV 4K | URC MX 450
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post #11520 of 12071 Old 05-01-2019, 07:03 AM
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So, have what I think is a simple question. I've read thru and searched a bunch of messages in this thread and just want to make sure of something.

About to calibrate my old Epson 8500 projector.... it's been a long time..... :-).


I purchased Ted's patterns disk but want to use the automatic patterns in HCFR for speed/ease.

To ensure my laptop's HDMI is outputting a "clean" signal, I would just setup the meter (i1D3) run thru the grayscale measurements with the automatic patterns then run thru the same patterns off the blu ray disk and make sure they match (pretty close anyways).

If they do, I'm good... right? Or do I need to do primaries, sats etc...?
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