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post #12151 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 12:10 AM
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The iris latency helps for better accuracy and is necessary for the EODIS3 with OLEDs, also a higher meter Integration time is necessary.
I use 800 ms meter integration time and 1 second iris latency.
Both values result from experience with 3DLUT creation.

Warm regards,
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post #12152 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
Yes, I know that. I have tested the hires mode with meter profiling in detail with OLEDs. I did a lot of comparing measurements because I wanted to achieve the highest accuracy for the meter correction matrix.
What reference instrument did you test against ?
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The hires mode had no advantages and showed slightly higher errors. That was confirmed by other users.
What other users ?

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter
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post #12153 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 12:44 AM
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What reference instrument did you test against ?

What other users ?
Ask ConnecTEDDD or BlackJoker. They confirmed my findings for 2018 OLEDs.

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post #12154 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
Ask ConnecTEDDD or BlackJoker. They confirmed my findings for 2018 OLEDs.
You said that you had done testing!

Can you at least link to the testing you say ConnecTEDDD and BlackJoker have done ?

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post #12155 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gwgill View Post
You said that you had done testing!

Can you at least link to the testing you say ConnecTEDDD and BlackJoker have done ?
I tested/compared in detail with a borrowed Jeti/Klein combination for a weekend.
My goal was to confirm that my calibration workflow is correct and accurate enough.
I discussed the results with ConnecTEDDD via email, BlackJoker confirmed the results.
The results had been very clear, it was no big deal.
i1pro2/EODIS3 is accurate enough and my (simplified) workflow works.
Hires mode of i1pro2 does not improve the meter profiling results.
I don't think they discussed this on the forum, but it is possible. Calman/LightSpace discussions and 3DLUT generation are more interesting topics for these specialists.

I just wanted to help @SirMaster with his C9 calibration with hints from practical experience of a relatively simple OLED calibration workflow that really works very well with 2018 LG OLEDs.
If you or harlekin have better practical hints and advice, go ahead.

Warm regards,
bejoro

Last edited by bejoro; 12-06-2019 at 08:03 AM.
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post #12156 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 10:43 AM
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And we are trusting in one persons claims again. "No big deal.*

If you had access to a Jeti Specbos, and had your testing confirmed by BlackJoker and Ted, seeing those results would actually have been very interesting. No significant deviation between i1pro2 and Jeti on WOLED would also have been of great interest to me at least.

But you didnt make it public, and you didn't keep the data.

All the best science is done that way. (Not.)
--

Can you remember by how much high resolution mode threw off the result, and in what direction (which primary was most affected). Just out of interest. And you used matrix corrections for all of it. And your screen was warmed up (because we know, that there is a red shift on WOLEDs in operation). Just checking.. Not saying that your results were wrong anymore. I'm actually interested.
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post #12157 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 11:21 AM
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I just wanted to help @SirMaster with his C9 calibration with hints from practical experience of a relatively simple OLED calibration workflow that really works very well with 2018 LG OLEDs.
If you have better practical hints and advice, go ahead.
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Warm regards,
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post #12158 of 12278 Old 12-06-2019, 11:42 AM
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HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

I appreciate everyone's help!



I will be doing the calibration for a friends C9 this Sunday. I have confirmed already that he can get into the service menus with his harmony remote.



I did figure out how to do the simultaneous measurement matrix correction in HCFR last night.



I was thinking that I could do 2 SDR calibrations in addition to the HDR like a night calibration at the reference 100 nits and a day one at more nits?



I am not sure if I should do the day one to like 250 nits or so, so that I can do a full 20 point with gamma cal if needed, before the white oled starts to interfere too much or before ABL stuff kicks in? Anyone have any thoughts on that?



For HDR I will try to do what Dominic said. Measure the 50% diffuse white nits and set that in HCFR, and then try to match the EOTF curve up to 50% and above 50% just check the white balance and don't worry about the luminance.



But I need to do this twice, once sending 1000nit patterns and again sending 4000nit patterns, because the TV will see these 2 nit sources as different calibration modes?





I am still maybe a little fuzzy on the service menu white balance part. I mean I probably understand it, but without having the TV in front of me and no experience with LG menus and settings it's hard to know what options there will be for me to worry about.



By memory, there is a 30% and 80% IRE setting, so I am generating an 80% IRE pattern in HCFR and using the RGB gains (lowering 2 of them) to get the pattern to D65. But let me get this straight. My 80% IRE pattern should be sent from HCFR or madTPG as an SDR or HDR pattern? And for what color gamut? Does the TV need to be in a certain mode when I am doing service menu WB adjustment? Wide gamut?



Then I do the 30% pattern with the RGB cuts. Should I be worried about raising the RGB cuts affecting the black level and contrast ratio? I have calibrated displays before where raising the RGB bias/offset/cuts was a big nono because it would destroy the black floor and contrast ratio.



So after I do these 2 patterns, for just 1 color temp? Warm2? Then I use warm2 in my SDR, HDR10 and picture DV modes? and everything should be pretty good?



Then for SDR I can check out the 20 point WB and gamma and tweak the normal LG menu 20 point controls if need be? Should I do 2.2 or 2.4 for my SDR gamma? Or should I curve 2.2 at the dark to 2.4 at the bright and just use my eyes to judge how it looks. Do I ever use the service menu 20 point WB or just the regular LG menu one?



And then don't even bother at all with the CMS?



Have I got all that right? Am I forgetting anything?

Last edited by SirMaster; 12-06-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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post #12159 of 12278 Old 12-11-2019, 12:32 PM
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Noobie questions

What is the learning curve to HCFR for calibrating SDR content?


I have only a very basic understanding of what the process involves.

I have an Epson 5040 projector I am considering calibrating. I am using an htpc with madVR as my source and everything runs through there as SDR (then dtm to hdr through madVR), so I wouldn't need to calibrate my display for HDR, right? Wrong?


Would you equate the learning curve of HCFR to REW's (audio) learning curve? Harder? Easier?


Thanks

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 2 VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #12160 of 12278 Old 12-11-2019, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Noobie questions

What is the learning curve to HCFR for calibrating SDR content?


I have only a very basic understanding of what the process involves.

I have an Epson 5040 projector I am considering calibrating. I am using an htpc with madVR as my source and everything runs through there as SDR (then dtm to hdr through madVR), so I wouldn't need to calibrate my display for HDR, right? Wrong?


Would you equate the learning curve of HCFR to REW's (audio) learning curve? Harder? Easier?


Thanks
If you are using madVR HDR to SDR tone-mapping then you only need SDR calibration.

I would classify SDR calibration with HCFR to be pretty easy to learn.

I don't think it's harder than REW.
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post #12161 of 12278 Old 12-11-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
If you are using madVR HDR to SDR tone-mapping then you only need SDR calibration.

I would classify SDR calibration with HCFR to be pretty easy to learn.

I don't think it's harder than REW.
The hardest part is adjusting Epson’s 10-pt gamma controls. I may provide a short write up if there are sufficient interests.
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post #12162 of 12278 Old 12-11-2019, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The hardest part is adjusting Epson’s 10-pt gamma controls. I may provide a short write up if there are sufficient interests.

Real bad?

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post #12163 of 12278 Old 12-12-2019, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The hardest part is adjusting Epson’s 10-pt gamma controls. I may provide a short write up if there are sufficient interests.

Hello Dominic (and others)! Back again in this forum after a year or so in exile.
Looking to calibrate my old trusty Epson again, and indeed - what has been *really* problematic in the past has been those gamma calibration controls. So, if you've got some tips there then that would be really appreciated indeed!
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post #12164 of 12278 Old 12-12-2019, 03:14 AM
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I read some posts regarding pattern generation and it's bit perfectness elsewhere and so I concluded I might have to reevaluate my tools and methods. I'm looking to SDR calibration for now. HDR10 later.
The last times I have been using Zoyd's chomecast generator solution. It was said to be "ok" in correctness even if it used some dithering to reach that. Before that I have also used Masciors disc in both DVD format and as a USB stick to be played by the media player in my BD player.

What is regarded as the best "budget" approach to pattern generation these days? Masciors Disc? The Chromecast generator? The RPi PGenerator by Riccardo Biasiotto? Some other tools?

As it happens I cannot find any "home page" or forum threads actually belonging to Biasiottos software anywhere. Is it Open Source?
Actually I cannot find the download links ot Masciors SDR patterns either... I'm sure I have downloaded them many times before.

With regard to the correctness of the different pattern discs. Which are regarded as bit perfect? Masciors, AVCHD? Teds?
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post #12165 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 05:23 AM
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Just a heads up, the version of i1D3 "Plus" (i1Display Pro Plus) currently shipping from Amazon works out of the box with HCFR and ArgyllCMS (it might work with Pro software but I don't have the money to test Calman or Lightspace).

See version sticker (JPG) below.

Note: I never had any X-Rite software on my computer, if that matters.

https://imgur.com/27BQuAo.jpg
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post #12166 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 10:43 AM
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Just a heads up, the version of i1D3 "Plus" (i1Display Pro Plus) currently shipping from Amazon works out of the box with HCFR and ArgyllCMS....

What is the lowest reading you can get with the Pro Plus using HCFR? I'm wondering if it's able to get lower readings than 0.01 nits like my retail non-plus.
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post #12167 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
Just a heads up, the version of i1D3 "Plus" (i1Display Pro Plus) currently shipping from Amazon works out of the box with HCFR and ArgyllCMS (it might work with Pro software but I don't have the money to test Calman or Lightspace).

See version sticker (JPG) below.

Note: I never had any X-Rite software on my computer, if that matters.

https://imgur.com/27BQuAo.jpg

What do you gain in the "plus" model over the regular pro model?

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 2 VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
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post #12168 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 11:30 AM
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The new Retail PRO Plus meter matches the existing OEM PRO model.

Only buy the newer Pro Plus Retail if you want to use the X-rite software.

Current TVs: 77" LG C9, 65" LG B7A, 55" TCL R625, 65” GT50 Plasma
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post #12169 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
What is the lowest reading you can get with the Pro Plus using HCFR? I'm wondering if it's able to get lower readings than 0.01 nits like my retail non-plus.
Identical at the low end to Retail and OEM meters. The difference is in the upper limit - it reads to 2000 nits like the OEM, while the regular Retail meter goes to 1000 nits. That's it.

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post #12170 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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What is the lowest reading you can get with the Pro Plus using HCFR? I'm wondering if it's able to get lower readings than 0.01 nits like my retail non-plus.
My old i1D3 reads down to 0.005 (or even 0.003). May not be super accurate but I can see the reading follow the gamma curve.
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post #12171 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
What is the lowest reading you can get with the Pro Plus using HCFR? I'm wondering if it's able to get lower readings than 0.01 nits like my retail non-plus.


My old A02 i1D3 from 2012 gets readings of as low as 0.0017 nits in HCFR (as far as I have seen on my JVC) and the x,y are not just default values either.

Not sure how trustworthy the readings are but there is nothing about them that tells they are faked.
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post #12172 of 12278 Old 12-13-2019, 02:21 PM
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My retail Rev B-02 never gets anything lower than 0.01 in HCFR. I tried it once with an older version of Calman and there it could read as low as 0.004 but that required sync mode to be turned on and there is no such setting in HCFR.

It seems like older ones don't have that problem and maybe OEMs and the new Plus can do lower than 0.01 readings in HCFR too?
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post #12173 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 07:36 AM
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Need your help, and please be patient with me. I know it's a pain to walk guys through this but why is this so difficult for me? Is there a step by step guide for getting HCFR, ArgyllCMS and my i1pro probe working? I'm having a heck of a time. Right now I'm forced to use an old laptop running Windows Vista, HCFR 2.1 and my old drivers, and it works fine, but I want to use the new software.

My system:
Windows 10 64 bit
i1pro spectrophotometer probe (Rev D circa 2009)
I did previously install a set of drivers for this probe on this laptop. I'd love to uninstall the drivers and start fresh but Windows doesn't seem to want to fully delete my drivers.

So far I've installed the latest version of HCFR. What Argyll files do I download and how do I install them and how do I get HCFR to then see my probe? My download options:
  • Download V2.1.1 Argyll Source Code
  • Download V2.1.1 Main Microsoft Windows executables
MSWindows 32 bit: X86 32 Bit
MSWindows 64 bit: X86 64 Bit


Thanks in advance. -Dan
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post #12174 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post
Need your help, and please be patient with me. I know it's a pain to walk guys through this but why is this so difficult for me? Is there a step by step guide for getting HCFR, ArgyllCMS and my i1pro probe working? I'm having a heck of a time. Right now I'm forced to use an old laptop running Windows Vista, HCFR 2.1 and my old drivers, and it works fine, but I want to use the new software.

My system:
Windows 10 64 bit
i1pro spectrophotometer probe (Rev D circa 2009)
I did previously install a set of drivers for this probe on this laptop. I'd love to uninstall the drivers and start fresh but Windows doesn't seem to want to fully delete my drivers.
So far I've installed the latest version of HCFR. What Argyll files do I download and how do I install them and how do I get HCFR to then see my probe? My download options:
  • Download V2.1.1 Argyll Source Code
  • Download V2.1.1 Main Microsoft Windows executables
MSWindows 32 bit: X86 32 Bit
MSWindows 64 bit: X86 64 Bit
Thanks in advance. -Dan
Welcome back.



I went through this myself recently and didn't have too much trouble getting the software to run with a *new* probe. I did have troubles getting an old [ edit - just wanted to get the exact model correct.. ] i1 display LT to be recognized by a 64-bit operating system. I ended up getting a new probe.



Before proceeding much further, make sure you want to solve this for a ten year old probe. Maybe the i1 *pro* from that era is not as vulnerable to aging, but I can tell you my cheaper i1 from 2008 had drifted so much it was even beyond the point where I could reliably compensate for it with a correction matrix.


Interestingly, it is possible to get a probe that is *too* new. I tried to rent a spectro to profile my new colorimeter and it turns out some recent-vintage spectros do not work. As I recall this is because HCFR has not been updated to work with the latest Argyll drivers (which *do* recognize these newer probes). See discussion around post 11532 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57989788



Anyone is free to chime in and correct anything I may have wrong here but that is what I recall anyway...

Last edited by NxNW; 12-18-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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post #12175 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 12:05 PM
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Welcome back.

I went through this myself recently and didn't have too much trouble getting the software to run with a *new* probe. I did have troubles getting an old i1 d3 to be recognized by a 64-bit operating system. I ended up getting a new probe.

Before proceeding much further, make sure you want to solve this for a ten year old probe. Maybe the i1 *pro* from that era is not as vulnerable to aging, but I can tell you my cheaper i1 from 2008 had drifted so much it was even beyond the point where I could reliably compensate for it with a correction matrix.

Interestingly, it is possible to get a probe that is *too* new. I tried to rent a spectro to profile my new colorimeter and it turns out some recent-vintage spectros do not work. As I recall this is because HCFR has not been updated to work with the latest Argyll drivers (which *do* recognize these newer probes). See discussion around post 11532 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57989788

Anyone is free to chime in and correct anything I may have wrong here but that is what I recall anyway...
Thanks NxNW, I really appreciate the time to reply. Regarding the probe, it appears to still be working very well. I just calibrated my new TV with standard dynamic range material (grayscale, REC.709 and 2.2 gamma) and everything looks great like it should. Grays appear proper without tint, colors look spot on, etc... If I recall correctly, being that the i1pro is a true spectrophotometer it's not as prone to drift as "colorometers".

I'd really like to get this thing working, and as I search this thread it appears that others have been able to do so with the new version of HCFR. I just can't figure out how they did it. Really, the only reason is because I think the new HCFR has some specific workflows for HDR material. My probe and HCFR 2.1 work great on my other laptop, but this new version is giving me fits on my Windows 10 laptop.

I might be overthinking this though. Does the new HCFR already have all the ArgyllCMS stuff(drivers, etc) pre-loaded into it when you install HCFR? Do I need to download something from ArgyllCMS in addition to HCFR or is the new version of HCFR all that I'm supposed to need?

Thanks,
Dan
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post #12176 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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I might be overthinking this though. Does the new HCFR already have all the ArgyllCMS stuff(drivers, etc) pre-loaded into it when you install HCFR? Do I need to download something from ArgyllCMS in addition to HCFR or is the new version of HCFR all that I'm supposed to need?
You don't need to download ArgyllCMS. The HCFR folder contains a Drivers subfolder that contains the drivers. However, you have to disable the Windows 10 Driver Signature Enforcement in order to install those.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 12-18-2019 at 09:04 PM.
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post #12177 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 12:53 PM
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You don't need to download ArgyllCMS. The HCFR folder contains a Drivers subfolder that contains the drivers. However, you have to disable the Windows 10 Signature Enforcement in order to install those.
Thank you. So if I have this correct, I follow the procedure below, then find the i1pro in my devices and then ask it to update the driver to the drivers in HCFR?
__________________________________________________ ______
Windows 10 enforces driver signatures by default. This can be disabled to install drivers that are not digitally signed. Use the following steps to disable driver signature enforcement.

Click the Start Start menu and select Settings.
Click Update and Security.
Click on Recovery.
Click Restart now under Advanced Startup.
Click Troubleshoot.
Click Advanced options.
Click Startup Settings.
Click on Restart.
On the Startup Settings screen press 7 or F7 to disable driver signature enforcement.
Your computer will restart and you will be able to install non-digitally signed drivers. If you restart your computer again the driver signature enforcement will be re-enabled.
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post #12178 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post
Thank you. So if I have this correct, I follow the procedure below, then find the i1pro in my devices and then ask it to update the driver to the drivers in HCFR?
__________________________________________________ ______
Windows 10 enforces driver signatures by default. This can be disabled to install drivers that are not digitally signed. Use the following steps to disable driver signature enforcement.

Click the Start Start menu and select Settings.
Click Update and Security.
Click on Recovery.
Click Restart now under Advanced Startup.
Click Troubleshoot.
Click Advanced options.
Click Startup Settings.
Click on Restart.
On the Startup Settings screen press 7 or F7 to disable driver signature enforcement.
Your computer will restart and you will be able to install non-digitally signed drivers. If you restart your computer again the driver signature enforcement will be re-enabled.
Yes. The procedure is also outlined on the Argyllcms webpage:
https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/Installing_MSWindows.html

Except you’ll be using the HCFR drivers.
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post #12179 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 07:09 PM
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Got my i1pro working with the new version of HCFR!

Thanks so much guys! I had to do the disable drivers signature restart procedure, but also had to completely eliminate all old driver files and delete the old i1pro from the laptop altogether. Otherwise it would keep saying that the current drivers that were installed were the best files and not let me install the Argyll ones. Once I manually deleted the driver files and uninstalled the i1pro, then it finally let me choose the Argyll drivers.

Working like a charm now and seems to give me equivalent readings to my other laptop with the same probe using the old HCFR 2.1.

Thanks again!

Dan
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post #12180 of 12278 Old 12-18-2019, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post
Once I manually deleted the driver files and uninstalled the i1pro, then it finally let me choose the Argyll drivers.
You shouldn't have to do that if you follow the "let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer -> Have disk" path.
[ Assuming that MSWin10 still has this option of course. With MS changing it underneath peoples feet all the time, who knows.. ]

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