HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 409 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1479Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #12241 of 12282 Old 01-11-2020, 11:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Please discuss the topic in this thread.
The OP started in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post59042372
and concluded
Quote:
It’s not an HCFR problem so I’ll post my follow up question in the appropriate thread.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-11-2020 at 11:17 AM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12242 of 12282 Old 01-11-2020, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The individual is seeking knowledge about the HDR calibration process using the HCFR software. His inquiry is about tone mapping and HDR readings not aligning with the individuals understanding of the process. The person was asking for information in a thread that does not discuss calibration hardware and software.

Based on what the individual posted, is looking for help understanding how tone mapping works and how to calibrate around it using the HCFR software. That very much puts the inquiry on topic for this thread.

Last edited by skschatzman; 01-11-2020 at 03:09 PM.
skschatzman is offline  
post #12243 of 12282 Old 01-12-2020, 09:56 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
The individual is seeking knowledge about the HDR calibration process using the HCFR software. His inquiry is about tone mapping and HDR readings not aligning with the individuals understanding of the process. The person was asking for information in a thread that does not discuss calibration hardware and software.

Based on what the individual posted, is looking for help understanding how tone mapping works and how to calibrate around it using the HCFR software. That very much puts the inquiry on topic for this thread.
That individual is me, and yes I agree there’s no specific thread this cleanly belongs in. I posted in the Vizio owner’s thread because I was asking for input from people that have calibrated those sets, with questions around understanding the TV’s CMS in context to HDR calibration. The conversation probably belongs in a Vizio-specific calibration thread but there isn’t one for this model. @skschatzman recommended I post in a sister thread which I’ll do ASAP.

Thanks again for everyone’s patience and sorry for the confusion.
Dan Loomis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12244 of 12282 Old 01-12-2020, 01:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
That individual is me, and yes I agree there’s no specific thread this cleanly belongs in. I posted in the Vizio owner’s thread because I was asking for input from people that have calibrated those sets, with questions around understanding the TV’s CMS in context to HDR calibration. The conversation probably belongs in a Vizio-specific calibration thread but there isn’t one for this model.
You can decide yourself which thread is the most appropriate and post there, as long as you follow the forum rules. Only a moderator (and maybe the thread starter) can tell you to post elsewhere.

In any case, I'm not sure if you're trying to solve a similar issue as this one:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post45580513
dwaleke likes this.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-12-2020 at 02:08 PM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12245 of 12282 Old 01-16-2020, 11:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can decide yourself which thread is the most appropriate and post there, as long as you follow the forum rules. Only a moderator (and maybe the thread starter) can tell you to post elsewhere.

In any case, I'm not sure if you're trying to solve a similar issue as this one:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post45580513
I'm trying to take a baseline HDR 10-point grayscale reading in HCFR and there is pattern brightness drift in HDR mode.

The issue is: there is a brightness drift between what my probe reads vs. what HCFR expects against the internal reference patterns. There was never such an issue using SDR calibration so I'm assuming it has something to do with HDR tone mapping. I'm streaming Masciola's HDR patterns through my Apple TV. The patterns trigger HDR mode in my TV (Vizio P Quantum X) so I know the Apple TV is sending through the right metadata.

For example, HCFR's 80% grayscale reference pattern most aligns visually with the 60% pattern from Masciola's disc.

So my question is hopefully simple. When taking a baseline 10-point grayscale reading in HCFR and when HCFR says "Load 80% grayscale", do I choose 60% from Masciola's disc because it most closely aligns from a visual brightness standpoint? Or do I load the 80% from the disk knowing HCFR will think it's way off?

Hope that makes sense.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12246 of 12282 Old 01-16-2020, 01:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
For example, HCFR's 80% grayscale reference pattern most aligns visually with the 60% pattern from Masciola's disc.
Using your 80% as an example, the code value is 765, with a corresponding PQ curve target luminance of 1558 nits. Most likely your TV will be tone-mapping it down to avoid clipping, depending on the metadata.

How do you display HCFR's reference pattern and compare it with the pattern from Masciol's disc?

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-16-2020 at 02:08 PM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12247 of 12282 Old 01-16-2020, 04:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Using your 80% as an example, the code value is 765, with a corresponding PQ curve target luminance of 1558 nits. Most likely your TV will be tone-mapping it down to avoid clipping, depending on the metadata.

How do you display HCFR's reference pattern and compare it with the pattern from Masciol's disc?
The HCFR reference pattern is on the left side of the HCFR screen when I'm taking active readings. It's right below the R G B % bars. When I take the reading from Masciol's disc using the probe it places the two patterns side by side.

EDIT: the darker/lower patterns also do not match up so it's almost like the HCFR reference patterns aren't the right ones for HDR.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12248 of 12282 Old 01-16-2020, 05:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
The HCFR reference pattern is on the left side of the HCFR screen when I'm taking active readings. It's right below the R G B % bars. When I take the reading from Masciol's disc using the probe it places the two patterns side by side.

EDIT: the darker/lower patterns also do not match up so it's almost like the HCFR reference patterns aren't the right ones for HDR.
Masciola’s patterns have specific workflows for CalMAN, ChromaPure and HCFR. See the follwing post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56173992

EDIT: Make sure HCFR using limited range (16-235). The reference values are (as examples)
60%: 147,147,147
80%: 191,191,191
100%: 235,235,235

If you had chosen full range (0-255) the corresponding values will be 153, 204, 255

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 01-16-2020 at 08:10 PM.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12249 of 12282 Old 01-17-2020, 08:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Masciola’s patterns have specific workflows for CalMAN, ChromaPure and HCFR. See the follwing post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56173992

EDIT: Make sure HCFR using limited range (16-235). The reference values are (as examples)
60%: 147,147,147
80%: 191,191,191
100%: 235,235,235

If you had chosen full range (0-255) the corresponding values will be 153, 204, 255
Ok I think I understand. I just took a 10-point grayscale measurement in HCFR using the appropriate chapters in Masciola's disk. As you can see from the screenshot, the readings are way off of the 100% baseline, way more than I see in SDR. That tells me either a) the probe is reading the wrong patterns, possibly due to tone mapping by my TV or b) the reference baseline is configured incorrectly in HCFR. I can calibrate SDR without a problem.

Are you saying it's b)? I acknowledge I'm doing some wrong but I don't know *what*.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	33
Size:	1.09 MB
ID:	2671572  
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12250 of 12282 Old 01-17-2020, 09:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
Ok I think I understand. I just took a 10-point grayscale measurement in HCFR using the appropriate chapters in Masciola's disk. As you can see from the screenshot, the readings are way off of the 100% baseline, way more than I see in SDR. That tells me either a) the probe is reading the wrong patterns, possibly due to tone mapping by my TV or b) the reference baseline is configured incorrectly in HCFR. I can calibrate SDR without a problem.

Are you saying it's b)? I acknowledge I'm doing some wrong but I don't know *what*.
I can’t tell unless you attach the HCFR data file here (*.chc, zipped).
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12251 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 01:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I can’t tell unless you attach the HCFR data file here (*.chc, zipped).
Here you go...thanks in advance for your help. I did a 20 point grayscale reading with my TV's gamma set to 2.2 and backlight to 0.

I'm not sure what to do with this Luminance curve. Even with the TV's gamma setting set to 2.4 I can't seem to get the readings down to the target dotted line. Or does that even matter in HDR? Should I just focus on deltaE using the TV's 11 point grayscale RGB controls?

Dan
Attached Files
File Type: zip HDR-Loomis.zip (30.6 KB, 6 views)
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12252 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
Here you go...thanks in advance for your help. I did a 20 point grayscale reading with my TV's gamma set to 2.2 and backlight to 0.

I'm not sure what to do with this Luminance curve. Even with the TV's gamma setting set to 2.4 I can't seem to get the readings down to the target dotted line. Or does that even matter in HDR? Should I just focus on deltaE using the TV's 11 point grayscale RGB controls?

Dan
For HDR the luminance curve should follow ST.2084. Gamma 2.2 or 2.4 are only for SDR.

The measurements do not look right at all. 80% measures 2030 nits whereas 90% reads dimmer at 1755 nits. Neither SDR nor HDR should look like this.

50% should measure 94 nits but your measurements show 182 nits. I suggest reset all the adjustments you did and remeasure.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12253 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 02:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
For HDR the luminance curve should follow ST.2084. Gamma 2.2 or 2.4 are only for SDR.

The measurements do not look right at all. 80% measures 2030 nits whereas 90% reads dimmer at 1755 nits. Neither SDR nor HDR should look like this.

50% should measure 94 nits but your measurements show 182 nits. I suggest reset all the adjustments you did and remeasure.
It measures brighter probably because my TV’s HDR local dimming was set to Medium during the measurements which makes the patterns much brighter. I’ll turn that off which will hopefully getting 50% close to 94 nits. I’ll report back ASAP.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12254 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
It measures brighter probably because my TV’s HDR local dimming was set to Medium during the measurements which makes the patterns much brighter. I’ll turn that off which will hopefully getting 50% close to 94 nits. I’ll report back ASAP.
No. Leave the local dimming alone. It is required to be at medium for HDR calibration and viewing.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
skschatzman is offline  
post #12255 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 03:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
No. Leave the local dimming alone. It is required to be at medium for HDR calibration and viewing.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
According to Dominic 50% should measure 94 nits. But I have no way getting to that level with FALD on, at least on my TV. I’m very confused about my next steps....this is very different than what I’m used to with SDR gamma calibration.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12256 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 04:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
According to Dominic 50% should measure 94 nits. But I have no way getting to that level with FALD on, at least on my TV. I’m very confused about my next steps....this is very different than what I’m used to with SDR gamma calibration.
Are you sure that’s due to FALD? I don’t have that TV but usually FALD shouldn’t double the brightness at 50%.
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12257 of 12282 Old 01-20-2020, 04:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
According to Dominic 50% should measure 94 nits. But I have no way getting to that level with FALD on, at least on my TV. I’m very confused about my next steps....this is very different than what I’m used to with SDR gamma calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Are you sure that’s due to FALD? I don’t have that TV but usually FALD shouldn’t double the brightness at 50%.
Dominic is correct. The FALD should be left at medium as it is required for accurate tone mapping. This is how it was designed by Vizio. Your issue is something else.
skschatzman is offline  
post #12258 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 12:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Dominic is correct. The FALD should be left at medium as it is required for accurate tone mapping. This is how it was designed by Vizio. Your issue is something else.
I'm getting close. My probe was off-center and not completely flush with the TV. I readjusted which seemed to help. With FALD set to Medium, Backlight to 45 and Gamma to 2.2 I measured ~95 nits @ 50%. That's definitely in the ballpark.

BUT - I noticed dramatically different readings on each of the TV's HDMI ports. All settings are the same for each port. I ran the tests multiple times to eliminate anomalies. The variance goes from 95 to 197 to 114 to 104 nits depending on the port.

Is this normal? Since we're veering into a different forum I'll repost back at the Vizio owners thread. Just curious what y'all think.

Dan

Last edited by Dan Loomis; 01-21-2020 at 01:12 PM.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12259 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 01:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
I'm getting close. My probe was off-center and not completely flush with the TV. I readjusted which seemed to help. With FALD set to Medium, Backlight to 45 and Gamma to 2.2 I measured ~95 nits @ 50%. That's definitely in the ballpark.



BUT - I noticed dramatically different readings on each of the TV's HDMI ports. All settings are the same for each port. I ran the tests multiple times to eliminate anomalies. The variance goes from 95 to 197 to 114 to 104 nits depending on the port.



Is this normal? Since we're veering into a different forum I'll repost back at the Vizio owners thread. Just curious what y'all think.



Dan
Double check the settings are correct. It is very easy to miss something. Full UHD color should be enabled for each port.
skschatzman is offline  
post #12260 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 01:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Double check the settings are correct. It is very easy to miss something. Full UHD color should be enabled for each port.
Full UHD is indeed enabled on each port, and the Apple TV correctly puts the TV into HDR when running the patterns.

Assuming HCFR is reading the patterns correctly and there isn't some weirdness with the probe, it's likely there is variance across the HDMI ports. I'm assuming it's a TV defect if my tests are scientifically correct. This also could explain my infuriatingly struggle with calibrating HDR using HCFR on this TV.

Anyway, I'll run another set of tests tonight or tomorrow and ensure all settings are consistently and correctly set across each port. And I also posted a more detailed thread over in the Vizio forums since this is most likely a TV issue. I doubt this has anything to do with HCFR so I'll carry the conversation over there.

Last edited by Dan Loomis; 01-21-2020 at 02:53 PM.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12261 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 02:33 PM
Senior Member
 
NxNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Sanity check, you performed a full reset on the picture settings for each input right?
NxNW is offline  
post #12262 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 02:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxNW View Post
Sanity check, you performed a full reset on the picture settings for each input right?
The Vizio TV's picture settings (three total, one each for SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision) are largely shared across HDMI inputs. The only input-specific settings are related to enabling/disabling Full UHD Color, of which all are enabled. But your point is well taken...I plan to do a factory reset before my next test to ensure everything starts from a clean starting point.
NxNW likes this.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12263 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 02:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
The Vizio TV's picture settings (three total, one each for SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision) are largely shared across HDMI inputs. The only input-specific settings are related to enabling/disabling Full UHD Color, of which all are enabled. But your point is well taken...I plan to do a factory reset before my next test to ensure everything starts from a clean starting point.
Correct. All 3 calibration tables are universal for all sources/input devices. However some of the picture mode settings are not universal and are independent for each source/input device.
It is easy to miss something. I have made this mistake numerous times.

Also HCFR does not take the readings. The colorimeter takes the readings and gives the raw data to HCFR. HCFR then plots that information onto a chart.
Dan Loomis likes this.
skschatzman is offline  
post #12264 of 12282 Old 01-21-2020, 08:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
However some of the picture mode settings are not universal and are independent for each source/input device. It is easy to miss something. I have made this mistake numerous times.
I just checked and of course you’re right. The backlight setting was/is unique for each input for my TV which was affecting my readings.
Dan Loomis is offline  
post #12265 of 12282 Old 01-22-2020, 12:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skschatzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,782
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2863 Post(s)
Liked: 1665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Loomis View Post
I just checked and of course you’re right. The backlight setting was/is unique for each input for my TV which was affecting my readings.
Easy mistake. All good.
skschatzman is offline  
post #12266 of 12282 Old 01-22-2020, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
NxNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Does anyone remember plasmas?

Specifically, how to fix non linear saturations on plasmas?

I have a non-consumer plasma hooked up to a Lumagen Radiance.

I profiled my meter against a spectro for this display.

On the display's controls I chose "Monitor" mode and "Normal" color temp. I moved brightness a few ticks to get black black.

I did a quick 2 point grayscale adjustment.

In "monitor" mode there is no contrast control. You can adjust something called "input level" and if anyone knows what that control actually does I'd love to hear it. Anyway I used this control to reduce the total light output to where gamma wasn't completely broken.

That's all.

Then I did gamut and saturations. The native color response of the display is shown in the .chc file called 'native'.

Then I thought well I'll try to reduce all the dE's for both primaries and 75% saturation points. I used the Lumagen CMS for this.

This is when I discovered that reducing the saturation of the primaries a *little* crashed the saturation of the 75% readings *a lot*.

See .chc file called 'CMS 1'

This is so non linear it's crazy.

Don't ask why I'm calibrating monitor mode with a whopping 12 FtL peak white. I'll get to Cinema or Standard modes later. Right now I just wanted to see what this display could do in its 'most accurate' mode and I'm losing my mind.

Just watching test material with the CMS settings in the second file clearly shows a shocking reduction in saturations and on the one hand I'm used to things looking less blingy after a calibration but on the other this seems like it may have gone too far.

What is the right way to calibrate color on a plasma?

I'm sure it's buried 1200 posts deep in an old Panny consumer plasma thread somewhere but if anyone remembers off the top of their head what is the received wisdom about calibrating plasmas, well, I'm here to learn.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Panasonic TH50PF11UK.zip (5.1 KB, 3 views)
NxNW is offline  
post #12267 of 12282 Old 01-24-2020, 06:38 PM
Senior Member
 
NxNW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 451
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 138
Apparently this is such a fraught question and such an ancient topic that merely asking for a simple answer to this intractable problem appears indistinguishable from trolling. I understand if no one wants to wade into this thicket all over again.



The answer in fact can be found elsewhere on AVS, and the answer is: there is no answer.


The upshot of all the endless debates on calibrating plasmas is that plasmas cannot ever be 'calibrated' for critical work, they can only be improved from factory settings.



What all the hand wringing seems to boil down to seems to be: if you optimize for one kind of viewing condition, you will not attain optimal results for other equally likely viewing conditions.


Perfect gamma? Sure, for 1% window patterns. But your gamma response will behave differently for other size windows. Let alone full fields. Perfect primaries? Sure, but now the 75% saturations won't line up. Looking good with black backgrounds? Try again with constant-APL patterns. Perfect primaries *and* saturations? Well maybe at 100% stimulus, but you can't *also* have it at 75% stimulus. Gamut looks great at 60 Hz? Surprise! There's a massive color shift at multiples of 24Hz. In fact the white balance shifts if you even change from one gamma preset to another.



For my set, I was able to improve it in two stages.


One, the device. Get the levels right, then do some rudimentary W/B, then (crucially) lower the color control a few clicks. This was a key detail I had sort of forgotten about after years living in a pure RGB world. Once you have the set as good as it can get (people are still sunburned, but less so), then you move to step two, the outboard CMS.



Here is where you can spend days balancing the perceptual tradeoffs between hue saturation and lightness, since the primaries are just broken enough, and not all in the same way, that you can never get them *all* to be perfect. Or if you do, it was because you were doing it in one controlled scenario (see laundry list above) that does not help you with other scenarios that will naturally arise in your video stream. Anyway, you keep iterating until all the dE's collectively are as low as possible overall for all permutations of colors and conditions that you have patterns for. Obviously you are trying to a) keep it simple and avoid massive settings adjustments, b) avoid any single color that is a massively wrong outlier, and c) you are generally giving preference to skin tones, colors inside the triangle formed by your secondaries, and colors at moderate stimulus levels.


Phew!


Simple, isn't it.


Anyway I got it to where things are still not great, certainly not linear, but anyway mostly *all* under de94<5 which is all I can really do.


I will say the newer version of HCFR is *so* much easier to use for all this than the old ColorHCFR...
NxNW is offline  
post #12268 of 12282 Old 01-24-2020, 08:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Guys. I'm new so bare with me please.

I got a display pro plus, HCFR and want to calibrate hdr.

I did sdr already with somewhat successful results.

Now into hdr.

I have an epso 5050ub, and it had the p3 color filter. What settings do I set in the HCFR to start the process ? Gamma ? Any guides ?
Chris Corcoran is offline  
post #12269 of 12282 Old 01-24-2020, 09:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 7,624
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5410 Post(s)
Liked: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Corcoran View Post
Guys. I'm new so bare with me please.

I got a display pro plus, HCFR and want to calibrate hdr.

I did sdr already with somewhat successful results.

Now into hdr.

I have an epso 5050ub, and it had the p3 color filter. What settings do I set in the HCFR to start the process ? Gamma ? Any guides ?
These two threads should help you get started:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...rojectors.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...cond-look.html
Dominic Chan is offline  
post #12270 of 12282 Old 01-25-2020, 06:43 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Corcoran View Post
Guys. I'm new so bare with me please.

I got a display pro plus, HCFR and want to calibrate hdr.

I did sdr already with somewhat successful results.

Now into hdr.

I have an epso 5050ub, and it had the p3 color filter. What settings do I set in the HCFR to start the process ? Gamma ? Any guides ?
These two threads should help you get started:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...rojectors.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...cond-look.html

Thanks for this.


Last but not least, where should I place my meter, my screen is 138"
Chris Corcoran is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off