HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 411 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12301 of 12481 Old 02-05-2020, 08:13 AM
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Hello

2019 Samsung QN65Q70AFXZC (Backlighting is Direct Full Array 4x) - HCFR display type?

Does anyone know the correct / closest match display type to use when calibrating a Samsung QN65Q70AFXZC using HCFR software and X-Rite i1 Display Pro.


Would one of this correction file work ?

https://colorimetercorrections.displ...%20Pro%29.ccmx

or

https://colorimetercorrections.displ...0Q9%2075_.ccmx

Thanks
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post #12302 of 12481 Old 02-10-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
Many thanks for the link and your explanations, that helped me a lot!
I would never have thought that an average movie delivers only 10% brightness...
When I find the time, I will do 2 calibration runs, one with full fields and one with 10% window.
Then I will see how different the two results will be. In terms of numbers and visually.
Also see this post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...-patterns.html
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post #12303 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 03:37 AM
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Hy!
I calibrated my Benq W2000 projector. After the calibration based on the grayscale measurement, everything is fine and deltaE is below under 3 for all IRE.
But if I check the White clipping video from the AVSHD709 disc, I see a blue tint in the flashing white bars and I see the flashing white bars until the 241 bar.
Before the calibration process I have setting up the contrast where the 235 bar is not visible but the 234 does without any colorization or tint.
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post #12304 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Hy!
I calibrated my Benq W2000 projector. After the calibration based on the grayscale measurement, everything is fine and deltaE is below under 3 for all IRE.
But if I check the White clipping video from the AVSHD709 disc, I see a blue tint in the flashing white bars and I see the flashing white bars until the 241 bar.
Before the calibration process I have setting up the contrast where the 235 bar is not visible but the 234 does without any colorization or tint.
To help diagnose please post your HCFR Before and After measurement files (chc), as well as the adjustments you made, in particular the Contrast and RGB Gain.
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post #12305 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To help diagnose please post your HCFR Before and After measurement files (chc), as well as the adjustments you made, in particular the Contrast and RGB Gain.
Unfortunately, I did not save the file. I only can attach report files which is made with calman and the contrast and gain settings.
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post #12306 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 07:42 AM
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I changged
Brightness from 50 to 51
Contrast from 50 to 48

R-Gain: from 100 to 91
G-Gain: from 100 to 94
B-Gain: 100 untouched

R-Offset: from 256 to 253
G-Offset: from 256 to 251
B-Gain: 256 untouched

I can attach file until i have 5 comments
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post #12307 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
I changged
Brightness from 50 to 51
Contrast from 50 to 48

R-Gain: from 100 to 91
G-Gain: from 100 to 94
B-Gain: 100 untouched

R-Offset: from 256 to 253
G-Offset: from 256 to 251
B-Gain: 256 untouched

I can attach file until i have 5 comments
The RGB balance needs to be smooth even when things are not perfect. You have huge bumps at 70% and 90% which can cause problems with near white - unless you didn't re-measure those points after the adjustments.
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post #12308 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The RGB balance needs to be smooth even when things are not perfect. You have huge bumps at 70% and 90% which can cause problems with near white - unless you didn't re-measure those points after the adjustments.
The projector only has 2 point grayscale menu.
I used 30 IRE and 80 IRE patterns, as You can see at 80 IRE the values are good, so I dont know how can I smooth these bumps if i have only 2 point system.

I tried the other method when the green channels left untouched and I adjusted the red and blue channels to match the green but I got worse result.
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post #12309 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
The projector only has 2 point grayscale menu.

I used 30 IRE and 80 IRE patterns, as You can see at 80 IRE the values are good, so I dont know how can I smooth these bumps if i have only 2 point system.



I tried the other method when the green channels left untouched and I adjusted the red and blue channels to match the green but I got worse result.
I wouldn't worry about it with 2pt controls. The errors are within imperceivable values.
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post #12310 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I wouldn't worry about it with 2pt controls. The errors are within imperceivable values.
The OP is seeing blue tint in the flashing white bars
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post #12311 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The OP is seeing blue tint in the flashing white bars
Yes, and I do not understand why I see blueish color in the test pattern while the grayscale measurement gives me a good result. Maybe the test pattern is wrong?
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post #12312 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Yes, and I do not understand why I see blueish color in the test pattern while the grayscale measurement gives me a good result. Maybe the test pattern is wrong?
Are you seeing blue only in the flashing white bars, or in the solid test patterns as well? If the latter then it depends on whether you trust your eyes more than the meter.
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post #12313 of 12481 Old 02-14-2020, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Are you seeing blue only in the flashing white bars, or in the solid test patterns as well? If the latter then it depends on whether you trust your eyes more than the meter.
Only the flashing bars The solid bakcground is white.
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post #12314 of 12481 Old 02-15-2020, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Only the flashing bars The solid bakcground is white.
The blue tint resulted from you decreasing the R and G gains, which is equivalent to increasing B in a relative sense. This can be verified rerunning the grey-scale sweep and the near white sweep.

To do that you can use the HCFR internal patterns. Save the measurement file.
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post #12315 of 12481 Old 02-17-2020, 12:52 AM
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A friend of mine lent me the GretagMacbeth i1 Pro probe and we tried our hand for a first measurement.
But immediately I found difficulties with the maximum measurement of the Nits, I assume due to the distance of the probe from the screen.
In my case I have an AR screen of 290cm base, initially I put the probe at such a distance that it did not create a shadow cone but with the result of a peak of 0.340 CD / m2. Then I approached it at a distance of 50cm and I tilted it slightly upwards (with shadow cone) and I got 25 CD / m2.

Although true similar it seems to me a little bit for my Vp (Optoma UHD65) of which I set the maximum nits on MadVR at 74.

I would not want to set anything under HCFR that tells the probe that it is a projector, is there such an option?




101/5000
Under "Reading Type" there are 3 options, Default is Display the others are Telephoto and Ambient.

Fabio
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post #12316 of 12481 Old 02-17-2020, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Nidios View Post
A friend of mine lent me the GretagMacbeth i1 Pro probe and we tried our hand for a first measurement.
But immediately I found difficulties with the maximum measurement of the Nits, I assume due to the distance of the probe from the screen.
In my case I have an AR screen of 290cm base, initially I put the probe at such a distance that it did not create a shadow cone but with the result of a peak of 0.340 CD / m2. Then I approached it at a distance of 50cm and I tilted it slightly upwards (with shadow cone) and I got 25 CD / m2.
I would place the meter at least 30 cm from the screen, ideally in line with the main viewing position.

Quote:
I would not want to set anything under HCFR that tells the probe that it is a projector, is there such an option?
You only need to specify the display type for tri-stimulus colorimeters. The i1Pro is a spectrophotometer.

Quote:
Under "Reading Type" there are 3 options, Default is Display the others are Telephoto and Ambient.
For the i1Pro there's no difference between Display and Telephone.
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post #12317 of 12481 Old 02-17-2020, 08:35 AM
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Perfect, thanks for the reply.
I was wondering if it is right to set HCFR on Rec.709 ... because now on my HTPC I am in RGB 10bit 0-255 and I use MadVR with Tone mapping with HDR / SDR conversion.

Furthermore, my Vp is an Optoma UHD65 and therefore cannot cover the DCI P3 but very well the Rec709.

Is it correct to set Rec.709 on HCFR?

Thanks from Fabio
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post #12318 of 12481 Old 02-17-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nidios View Post
Perfect, thanks for the reply.
I was wondering if it is right to set HCFR on Rec.709 ... because now on my HTPC I am in RGB 10bit 0-255 and I use MadVR with Tone mapping with HDR / SDR conversion.

Furthermore, my Vp is an Optoma UHD65 and therefore cannot cover the DCI P3 but very well the Rec709.

Is it correct to set Rec.709 on HCFR?

Thanks from Fabio
HCFR has an option to set colour space to Rec2020/Rec709 for displays like yours.

If you use madVR then it's best to use madTP to generate the test patterns.
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post #12319 of 12481 Old 02-18-2020, 02:27 AM
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Fabio
Well, I'm making the first corrections by getting a sufficient "RGB Level".
In my opinion, the CD / m2 are always too low "30". On MadVR for Tone Mapping I set 70.
Anyway I wanted to start correcting the CMS, but first I ask you if I understand the correction mechanism well.
If we take the BLUE point for example and I have to try to extend it further down and to the left is it correct that I set the "X" type -8 value and the "Y" -5 value?



Then of the 3 parameters (X - Y - Brightness) what corrects the last parameter "Brightness"? That is, what movement is there on the chart?

Sorry for the beginner questions

Fabio
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post #12320 of 12481 Old 02-18-2020, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Nidios View Post
Fabio
Well, I'm making the first corrections by getting a sufficient "RGB Level".
In my opinion, the CD / m2 are always too low "30". On MadVR for Tone Mapping I set 70.
Anyway I wanted to start correcting the CMS, but first I ask you if I understand the correction mechanism well.
If we take the BLUE point for example and I have to try to extend it further down and to the left is it correct that I set the "X" type -8 value and the "Y" -5 value?



Then of the 3 parameters (X - Y - Brightness) what corrects the last parameter "Brightness"? That is, what movement is there on the chart?

Sorry for the beginner questions

Fabio
What you show in the CIE diagram are lower case x, y. The Brigntness is also called luminance, represent by capital Y. It cannot be seen in the diagram, you have to look at the main measurements screen to see Y and it’s target value.
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post #12321 of 12481 Old 02-18-2020, 05:34 AM
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Sorry if I'm picky, so the Luminance under the CMS is the "Y" value, but isn't it also the same as RGB Gain / Bias? Or the value of the gain?

So the red arrows I made on the attached photo are correct in behavior?
That is, the shift of the value "x" and "y" in plus and minus ....

I ask because I realized that some points do not move, for example on the BLUE even if I put -20 on "x" the point does not move, I considered a limitation of the projector.

Fabio
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post #12322 of 12481 Old 02-18-2020, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Nidios View Post
Sorry if I'm picky, so the Luminance under the CMS is the "Y" value, but isn't it also the same as RGB Gain / Bias? Or the value of the gain?

So the red arrows I made on the attached photo are correct in behavior?
That is, the shift of the value "x" and "y" in plus and minus ....

I ask because I realized that some points do not move, for example on the BLUE even if I put -20 on "x" the point does not move, I considered a limitation of the projector.

Fabio
The luminance you adjust under CMS is different from the RGB gains.

You cannot increase the saturation beyond the projector’s native gamut.
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post #12323 of 12481 Old 02-22-2020, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The blue tint resulted from you decreasing the R and G gains, which is equivalent to increasing B in a relative sense. This can be verified rerunning the grey-scale sweep and the near white sweep.

To do that you can use the HCFR internal patterns. Save the measurement file.
Sorry for my late answer but here is the chc file.
https://mega.nz/#!hMcnQYJA!sYA7CeL-7...Knncp-ZKQxTGY0

It is consists a near black and near white measurments to.
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post #12324 of 12481 Old 02-22-2020, 01:44 AM
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Hi guys,
Does anybody have a correction table for a Samsung Q90 75 inch ?
I will be using a i1 display pro plus meter.


Thanks
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post #12325 of 12481 Old 02-22-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Sorry for my late answer but here is the chc file.
https://mega.nz/#!hMcnQYJA!sYA7CeL-7...Knncp-ZKQxTGY0

It is consists a near black and near white measurments to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
I changged

R-Gain: from 100 to 91
G-Gain: from 100 to 94
B-Gain: 100 untouched

R-Offset: from 256 to 253
G-Offset: from 256 to 251
B-Gain: 256 untouched
I'm not sure why you would reduce the R-Gain and R-Offset so much. R readings are way below the G and B levels, which could have caused the cyan cast.

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post #12326 of 12481 Old 02-23-2020, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I'm not sure why you would reduce the R-Gain and R-Offset so much. R readings are way below the G and B levels, which could have caused the cyan cast.

For the calibration I used Calman and I did not see that R readings are way too below. But in HCFR You are rigth. I will recalibrate it with the hcfr.
Could You suggest anything for grayscale calibration?
I use 30 and 80 IRE patterns for the 2 point grayscale calibration.
Is there any rule for not to touch green channel or only decrease the channels and not to allowed increase any of the channels?

In the settings of HCFR for the display type what is correct settings for a DLP projector?

Last edited by Tokodboy; 02-23-2020 at 01:32 AM.
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post #12327 of 12481 Old 02-23-2020, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
For the calibration I used Calman and I did not see that R readings are way too below. But in HCFR You are rigth. I will recalibrate it with the hcfr.
Could You suggest anything for grayscale calibration?
I use 30 and 80 IRE patterns for the 2 point grayscale calibration.
Is there any rule for not to touch green channel or only decrease the channels and not to allowed increase any of the channels?

In the settings of HCFR for the display type what is correct settings for a DLP projector?
If you're re-calibrating then reset all controls to factory default and measure and save the greyscale before making any adjustments.

Increasing gain settings can often lead to clipping of those channels, so if green is higher than red and blue you may have to decrease green.

For lamp-based projectors use projector is the display type.
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post #12328 of 12481 Old 02-23-2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If you're re-calibrating then reset all controls to factory default and measure and save the greyscale before making any adjustments.

Increasing gain settings can often lead to clipping of those channels, so if green is higher than red and blue you may have to decrease green.

For lamp-based projectors use projector is the display type.
Thx.
And whats the point for an example if the red is 115% green is 110% and blue is 90%? Decrease red to match green and increase blue to match green? Or decrease and increase everything till 100%?

In the Display Type I only have 1 Projector option:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...688986&thumb=1

For the measurement I chose none refresh display for display type.
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post #12329 of 12481 Old 02-23-2020, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Thx.
And whats the point for an example if the red is 115% green is 110% and blue is 90%? Decrease red to match green and increase blue to match green? Or decrease and increase everything till 100%?

In the Display Type I only have 1 Projector option:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...688986&thumb=1

For the measurement I chose none refresh display for display type.
As mentioned previously, increasing gain can potentially leading to clipping. I would deacrease red and green to match blue, or confirm there’s no clipping when increasing blue.

Yes, there is only one projector option for UHP lamps.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-26-2020 at 12:53 PM.
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post #12330 of 12481 Old 02-23-2020, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
As mentioned previously, increasing gain can potentially leading to clipping. I would deacrease respd and green to match blue, or confirm there’s no clipping when increasing blue.

Yes, there is only one projector option for UHP lamps.
But if I decrease green it won't be break the gamma curve?
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