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post #12421 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
Talking about the Q70. I downloaded a .CCSS file for a previous Year QLED, not perfect, but I guess better than nothing.


So, I have some consideration to do. I managed to get a pretty nice Greyscale, after checking that my panel has a lot of blue, and red deficience. So I had to boost Red Gain. People talk about not doing that, but how can I know when it's too far? Clipping at 100%? Which brings me to the next question.


At 100%, there's a clear dropoff in Red. I thought was because of my Gain Adjustment, but lowering Red only made it worse. I found the culprit to be the Contrast. Everyone say Q70 should be left at Default 45. Checking White Point Pattern, I can see a clear Red tint when it's left at 45. If I go to 36, it's gone, but it requires too much lowering of Contrast, which should affect my image pop. How much is it going to affect my image leaving Contrast clipping as it is, versus lowering?
Contrast and Gain are related. Gain is essentially individual contrast adjustment for each colour. It’s best to leave everything at default, measure the greyscale, near white, near black, before doing any adjustments.
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post #12422 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Contrast and Gain are related. Gain is essentially individual contrast adjustment for each colour. It’s best to leave everything at default, measure the greyscale, near white, near black, before doing any adjustments.

I have to study all the basics again! It's been many years since I read daily to learn how to Calibrate my good old Plasma. Of course you are right!


Luckly, I have saved the Before and After Calibration session. I will attach both for analysis. I have to do a Near White Measure in HCFR, didnt do it. AVSHD doesnt have the Patterns for this I suppose, have to find a trusty source.
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post #12423 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
I have to study all the basics again! It's been many years since I read daily to learn how to Calibrate my good old Plasma. Of course you are right!


Luckly, I have saved the Before and After Calibration session. I will attach both for analysis. I have to do a Near White Measure in HCFR, didnt do it. AVSHD doesnt have the Patterns for this I suppose, have to find a trusty source.
You can use the HCFR internal patterns. However, judging by the trend there doesn’t seem to be any serious clipping.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-14-2020 at 04:55 PM.
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post #12424 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can use the HCFR internal patterns. However, judging by the trend there doesn’t seem to be any clipping.

That Red dropping at 100% is gone if I start lowering Contrast. Maybe that's messing with Red Gain, so thats why. But I clearly get a red tint in Contrast Pattern check, but I guess I'm going to leave that, because loosing contrast is going to harm my image worse I presume.


Unfortunately I haven't managed to get Bit Accurate results with my Laptop HDMI out. Unless the USB connection on my Samsung isn't But Accurate, then I wouldn't know which is Reference.
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post #12425 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfred67 View Post
I redid my calibration my i1 display pro wasn't sitting properly on my first run. Here are my new numbers

r- Gain 0
g-gain 0
b -gain -1
r- offset 0
g- offset +1
b -offset +6

I read you should never mess too much with Offset, it can screw all your Greyscale. Is the Offset adjustments needed most below 30% or above?
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post #12426 of 12470 Old 03-14-2020, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
That Red dropping at 100% is gone if I start lowering Contrast. Maybe that's messing with Red Gain, so thats why. But I clearly get a red tint in Contrast Pattern check, but I guess I'm going to leave that, because loosing contrast is going to harm my image worse I presume.


Unfortunately I haven't managed to get Bit Accurate results with my Laptop HDMI out. Unless the USB connection on my Samsung isn't But Accurate, then I wouldn't know which is Reference.
Sorry I didn’t see the droop in near the top. Reducing the contrast makes sense. I don’t think the slight loss in contrast would be even noticeable.
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post #12427 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
I read you should never mess too much with Offset, it can screw all your Greyscale. Is the Offset adjustments needed most below 30% or above?

Is that right? I'm a newbie so still learning. I had to lower my Contrast to 35 to remove the pink tinge too as you stated in another post.


I attached my chc file looking for any tips. Over all it doesn't seem to bad, I did select BT.1886 for my gamma
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Last edited by alfred67; 03-15-2020 at 06:18 AM.
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post #12428 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 07:20 AM
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It looks really good, but without knowing all the settings for White Balance, 2pt and 10pt you used, it's hard to see the final picture. About Contrast, I'm going to check with some footage how this affects the overal image vs the red tint. IF lowering contrast affects too much, I may make the choice of leaving it as it is.
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post #12429 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfred67 View Post
I redid my calibration my i1 display pro wasn't sitting properly on my first run. Here are my new numbers

r- Gain 0
g-gain 0
b -gain -1
r- offset 0
g- offset +1
b -offset +6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec246 View Post
I read you should never mess too much with Offset, it can screw all your Greyscale. Is the Offset adjustments needed most below 30% or above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfred67 View Post
Is that right? I'm a newbie so still learning. I had to lower my Contrast to 35 to remove the pink tinge too as you stated in another post.


I attached my chc file looking for any tips. Over all it doesn't seem to bad, I did select BT.1886 for my gamma
Offset adjustments have a huge effect at the low end, something you may miss if you monitor 20% or 30% when adjusting the Offset. In your particular example Blue is at 146% at 5% input, and likely much higher at lower levels. You need to look at the entire sweep when making adjustments. Or better still, run a near black sweep to check.
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post #12430 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Offset adjustments have a huge effect at the low end, something you may miss if you monitor 20% or 30% when adjusting the Offset. In your particular example Blue is at 146% at 5% input, and likely much higher at lower levels. You need to look at the entire sweep when making adjustments. Or better still, run a near black sweep to check.

Thanks for the tips guys going to look at my offset adjustment . By Black sweep check do you mean Near Black sweep?? Because I did do one should be in the file zip file I attached on an earlier post



Thanks
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post #12431 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Offset adjustments have a huge effect at the low end, something you may miss if you monitor 20% or 30% when adjusting the Offset. In your particular example Blue is at 146% at 5% input, and likely much higher at lower levels. You need to look at the entire sweep when making adjustments. Or better still, run a near black sweep to check.
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Originally Posted by alfred67 View Post
By Black sweep check do you mean Near Black sweep?? Because I did do one should be in the file zip file I attached on an earlier post.
I did say Near Black Sweep, even though not capitalized.

Looking at your sweep, Blue is at 740%(!!!) at 2% input.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-15-2020 at 01:09 PM.
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post #12432 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:51 PM
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Is there a version of HCFR for Mac OS that will work with an X-Rite ColorMunki Display?
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post #12433 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:53 PM
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Is there a version of HCFR for Mac OS that will work with an X-Rite ColorMunki Display?
Unfortunately not unless you run Windows on a virtual machine.
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post #12434 of 12470 Old 03-15-2020, 12:58 PM
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Unfortunately not unless you run Windows on a virtual machine.
Thanks for the info. I'll just use a Windows laptop I have lying around, but prefer the Mac. Oh well...
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post #12435 of 12470 Old 03-16-2020, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Blue is at 740%(!!!) at 2% input.
For those of us with regular sensors, is this sort of reading trustworthy? Does the integration time setting or Adaptive integration feature matter in getting better low end accuracy with ordinary colorimeters such as the i1 Pro?
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post #12436 of 12470 Old 03-16-2020, 11:56 AM
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For those of us with regular sensors, is this sort of reading trustworthy? Does the integration time setting or Adaptive integration feature matter in getting better low end accuracy with ordinary colorimeters such as the i1 Pro?
It is true that the meter accuracy is not assured at low levels. However the readings are consistent with the predicted results from the excess boost in the blue offset.

Also, if you display a grey step or grey ramp, such discolourations will be visible. The human eye is very accurate in judging relative neutrality.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-16-2020 at 05:29 PM.
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post #12437 of 12470 Old 03-26-2020, 11:42 PM
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I t ried to calibrate my projectors 3d picture.
At 80% IRE level the originally measured values are? R: 65%, G:124%, B:81%. I tried tro raise red and blue to match the green, but it seems I ran out of red. I can still raise the red gain but it unchanged nothing.
Here is my result:
https://mega.nz/#!8d11BbLL!2xq8Fn_TF...l1qe_FZl_4FrlI

I also trtied to lower the green and blue channel to macth red. It seems it gives a good result according to the meter, but I need to lower green by 18 clicks and I noticed that I lost some light output.

Which is the best method? Try to find the lowest green level and than match red and blue to it?
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post #12438 of 12470 Old 03-27-2020, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
I t ried to calibrate my projectors 3d picture.
At 80% IRE level the originally measured values are? R: 65%, G:124%, B:81%. I tried tro raise red and blue to match the green, but it seems I ran out of red. I can still raise the red gain but it unchanged nothing.
Here is my result:
https://mega.nz/#!8d11BbLL!2xq8Fn_TF...l1qe_FZl_4FrlI

I also trtied to lower the green and blue channel to macth red. It seems it gives a good result according to the meter, but I need to lower green by 18 clicks and I noticed that I lost some light output.

Which is the best method? Try to find the lowest green level and than match red and blue to it?

Yes, you often can’t raise gains much if any.

Raise them a bit if you can, but ultimately you will have to lower the other colors.

Of course lowering gains will lower your brightness but that’s fundamentally how light works.

Green is 71% of the brightness, red is 21% and blue is only 8%.

So because you need to lower green so much is why your image becomes darker. But it’s a necessity if you want a neutral 6500K color temperature.
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post #12439 of 12470 Old 03-27-2020, 01:24 AM
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Yes, you often can’t raise gains much if any.

Raise them a bit if you can, but ultimately you will have to lower the other colors.

Of course lowering gains will lower your brightness but that’s fundamentally how light works.

Green is 71% of the brightness, red is 21% and blue is only 8%.

So because you need to lower green so much is why your image becomes darker. But it’s a necessity if you want a neutral 6500K color temperature.
The problem is that I not only lose light output but it is cause a black crush too (int the avshd709 blackclipping test pattern the 17 and 18 and maybe 19 bars aer going to invisble) for some strange reason. Not to much but it is noticeable.
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post #12440 of 12470 Old 03-27-2020, 05:53 AM
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The problem is that I not only lose light output but it is cause a black crush too (int the avshd709 blackclipping test pattern the 17 and 18 and maybe 19 bars aer going to invisble) for some strange reason. Not to much but it is noticeable.

Does adjusting the brightness control bring them back?
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Does adjusting the brightness control bring them back?
Yes
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post #12442 of 12470 Old 03-27-2020, 07:00 AM
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Yes

Well then sounds like you are fine as that’s exactly what the brightness control it for.
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Well then sounds like you are fine as that’s exactly what the brightness control it for.
So I need to increase brigthness and after that recalibrate the greyscale again?
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post #12444 of 12470 Old 03-27-2020, 07:08 AM
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So I need to increase brigthness and after that recalibrate the greyscale again?

Changing the brightness control won’t affect greyscale balance.

I always check the brightness level with black clipping pattern as a last step to a calibration.
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After I calibrated the grayscale I would like to calibrate the CMS too.
In my tv I calibrated the cms a couple of times, it uses rgb based system.
But my projector's settings are based on Hue, Saturation, Gain.
I changed the HCFR's settings to HSV levels, but I dont know which settings of my projector's corresponding with the hcfr's hsv bars?
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post #12446 of 12470 Old 03-29-2020, 03:02 AM
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After I calibrated the grayscale I would like to calibrate the CMS too.
In my tv I calibrated the cms a couple of times, it uses rgb based system.
But my projector's settings are based on Hue, Saturation, Gain.
I changed the HCFR's settings to HSV levels, but I dont know which settings of my projector's corresponding with the hcfr's hsv bars?

You can do this looking at the CIE diagram and the luminance (Y).

Start with red for example and measure a 75% saturation red pattern. To move the measurement point in and out along a line between the red primary and your white point, you adjust the red saturation control.

The hue control then moves the point roughly perpendicular to the saturation axis. Hue will move the point around the CIE diagram in a circle, around your white point.

The last one is lightness or luminance (or gain as you call it) which we can’t see on a typical 2D CIE diagram. Think of this as up and down, into and out of the CIE diagram. But just view the red saturation sweep view in HCFR and you will see the Y value for your 75% red saturation and you can adjust your gain value until it matches there.

Make sure you have measured a 100% white pattern first, otherwise your color patterns luminance target reference will not be correct.
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post #12447 of 12470 Old 03-29-2020, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
You can do this looking at the CIE diagram and the luminance (Y).

Start with red for example and measure a 75% saturation red pattern. To move the measurement point in and out along a line between the red primary and your white point, you adjust the red saturation control.

The hue control then moves the point roughly perpendicular to the saturation axis. Hue will move the point around the CIE diagram in a circle, around your white point.

The last one is lightness or luminance (or gain as you call it) which we can’t see on a typical 2D CIE diagram. Think of this as up and down, into and out of the CIE diagram. But just view the red saturation sweep view in HCFR and you will see the Y value for your 75% red saturation and you can adjust your gain value until it matches there.

Make sure you have measured a 100% white pattern first, otherwise your color patterns luminance target reference will not be correct.
Is it needed to setting somewhere in hcfr that I will use 75% saturation colors or the primaries and secondaries measurments is good for it?
For an example here is my current red readings.
So I need to lower stauration and gain and increase Hue?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...703062&thumb=1
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post #12448 of 12470 Old 03-29-2020, 06:33 AM
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Is there any way I can check Above White in HCFR internal Patterns?
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post #12449 of 12470 Old 03-29-2020, 07:05 AM
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Is there any way I can check Above White in HCFR internal Patterns?
To do that you will need to create a level mismatch intentionally - set HCFR and the graphics card both to full range, while leaving the TV in limited range.

Personally I wouldn't bother.
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post #12450 of 12470 Old 03-29-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokodboy View Post
Is it needed to setting somewhere in hcfr that I will use 75% saturation colors or the primaries and secondaries measurments is good for it?
For an example here is my current red readings.
So I need to lower stauration and gain and increase Hue?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...703062&thumb=1

In that drop down where it says primaries and secondaries, just pick 1 color to work on like the red sweep.

And run a red saturation sweep measurement. That will measure 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% by default.

In my experience you do the most adjustment while looking at the 75% pattern.

I don’t worry about the 100% pattern as that color is rarely even used in actual video and if you try to calibrate just the 100% pattern then you can completely screw up the entire rest of the scale.
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