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post #1411 of 11718 Old 02-10-2013, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The current version, which is the only one you should be using, uses CIELUV without the consideration of luminance for grayscale. This is identical to the original version 2.1 selection "do not use luminance in deltaE formula" selection. I've compared the two versions to verify they are the same.

For color you have the choice of CIELUV (with luminance consideration) or CIE94.

Here is a comparison of dE values between Calman dEuv calculation and HCFR

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post #1412 of 11718 Old 02-11-2013, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I'm still tweaking/adding stuff, I also don't want to bump the version number since this has not been merged with the master code. I've published changes to a fork of the master code and they can be found here.

Current zip distribution link has been updated with:

1. fixed radio button comestic issue
2. added 75% sat/75% luminance Rec.709 color space target choice to the available reference color space choices.

#2 is useful for calibrating plasmas with non-linear saturation response. Note that when using this choice you must use 75% saturation/75% luminance RGBCYMW patterns with a 2.22 target gamma. These are available on the GCD disk.
Is this where to always find the latest version? http://sourceforge.net/u/zoyd000/hcfr

I'm a little confused as to whether the dropbox links you have posted or that sourceforge page are the best place to look for the current version.
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post #1413 of 11718 Old 02-11-2013, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The current version, which is the only one you should be using, uses CIELUV without the consideration of luminance for grayscale. This is identical to the original version 2.1 selection "do not use luminance in deltaE formula" selection. I've compared the two versions to verify they are the same.

For color you have the choice of CIELUV (with luminance consideration) or CIE94.

Here is a comparison of dE values between Calman dEuv calculation and HCFR


thanks zoyd, I misinterpreted the change to dE94 as applying to grayscale also, but see the dE94 is for gamut only, grayscale remains dE76.
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post #1414 of 11718 Old 02-11-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Is this where to always find the latest version? http://sourceforge.net/u/zoyd000/hcfr

I'm a little confused as to whether the dropbox links you have posted or that sourceforge page are the best place to look for the current version.

yeah, forget the dropbox link, I put the current link from sourceforge in my sig.
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post #1415 of 11718 Old 02-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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A few questions, apologies if these have already been answered:

Would it be possible to modify the "image generator" in HCFR to generate APL patterns instead of windows on black background?

Similar to the image generator, is it possible/practical to create another generator that lets you select a series of mp4 files for the patterns (think AVS 709 disc mp4's) and use those instead of images?

The "overlay" mode in the image generator throws off an error on my PC. Is overlay known to be broken? Does it even matter if I am using xbmc/WMC for my content as I think they use EVR and not overlay?

Many thanks for your efforts on continuing to update HCFR, the software is brilliant.
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post #1416 of 11718 Old 02-14-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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The image generation stuff is new for me so I don't know how much I can tweak. Putting in APL backgrounds might be doable but loading of custom .mp4 I don't think I'll have the time to get into that. Maybe someone else can comment on the signal path used also, in other words does calibrating with view images calibrate a particular viewer application like WMC? I have no idea. The best thing to do in that case is use the manual DVD mode and then find a way to generate the patterns from your application during measurement, don't know how easy that is either but presumably you could play the AVS HD mp4 through WMC and measure with HCFR. I know view images is neat because it's automatic but if you're not sure your calibrating the right signal chain it's not worth it.
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post #1417 of 11718 Old 02-14-2013, 12:11 PM
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OK understood thanks.

My programming skills are nil so I'm not complaining at all, very grateful for what we have. I wonder if it could be pretty easy with mp4's and WMP just having HCFR call mediaplayer.exe "user defined path to correct mp4 for test" and then having HCFR kill the WMP task once a reading is taken. It would be ugly process wise, but the automated readings save so much time.
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post #1418 of 11718 Old 02-15-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

OK understood thanks.

My programming skills are nil so I'm not complaining at all, very grateful for what we have. I wonder if it could be pretty easy with mp4's and WMP just having HCFR call mediaplayer.exe "user defined path to correct mp4 for test" and then having HCFR kill the WMP task once a reading is taken. It would be ugly process wise, but the automated readings save so much time.

I'm not sure what you are looking for, but it sounds like you need to select Measures --> Generator --> Select --> View Images. This is automated from patterns inside HCFR. On the configuration menu you can set the window size by percent.
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post #1419 of 11718 Old 02-15-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

I'm not sure what you are looking for, but it sounds like you need to select Measures --> Generator --> Select --> View Images. This is automated from patterns inside HCFR.
Yes that is what I am currently using. I was looking for a way to use a set of user defined mp4 files though so that way you are calibrating against images which go through the same computation pipeline as your media player does. The image generator uses windows GDI, which may give different results than the images you get by playing an mp4 file.

You can currently do it all manually with the DVD generator of course, but an automated way would be a nice time saver.
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post #1420 of 11718 Old 02-15-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Version 3.0.4.1 has been uploaded to sourceforge.

Changes:

-Merged in a backport of the 1.5beta code for the D3 and optimized integration times for refresh display. It is important that you sync your probe using the calibrate function to a pattern >= 50% prior to taking measurements.
-Added 6 color checker targets (advanced->preferences->references->color space standard->CC6). Colors are, light skin, blue sky, foliage, blue flower, yellow green, orange yellow
-Fixed view images generator so that it displays proper RGB triplets when using Rec709(75%) and CC6
-Some labeling and graphing fixes for the new color spaces

let me know if I broke anything. smile.gif
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post #1421 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Yes that is what I am currently using. I was looking for a way to use a set of user defined mp4 files though so that way you are calibrating against images which go through the same computation pipeline as your media player does. The image generator uses windows GDI, which may give different results than the images you get by playing an mp4 file.

You can currently do it all manually with the DVD generator of course, but an automated way would be a nice time saver.


You should measure RGBW patterns through the two different signal chains and compare, maybe they will match up. If they don't you could actually build a meter correction file to correct for the difference.
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post #1422 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 05:42 AM
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Zoyd,

I'am finally going to pick up my colormunki today,by all your testing and data,which size window patterns (apl or standard) do you recommend for the GT30?

Also will your matrix work for me or just use the standard spectral ccfl?

Thanks for everything buddy.

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post #1423 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Version 3.0.4.1 has been uploaded to sourceforge.

Changes:

-Merged in a backport of the 1.5beta code for the D3 and optimized integration times for refresh display. It is important that you sync your probe using the calibrate function to a pattern >= 50% prior to taking measurements.
-Added 6 color checker targets (advanced->preferences->references->color space standard->CC6). Colors are, light skin, blue sky, foliage, blue flower, yellow green, orange yellow
-Fixed view images generator so that it displays proper RGB triplets when using Rec709(75%) and CC6
-Some labeling and graphing fixes for the new color spaces

let me know if I broke anything. smile.gif

The limited time I have had with this, all seems fine. There is an issue thats been present for a while where the preferences are not being retained when opening a saved file.

With the D3, is the calibrate function to be done only once per session, or on a time basis like the i1Pro?

Is there a disk with the patterns for CC6 available for calibrating with a BR player? The GCD disk has these patterns.

thanks zoyd for all your time and effort.
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post #1424 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

The limited time I have had with this, all seems fine. There is an issue thats been present for a while where the preferences are not being retained when opening a saved file.

With the D3, is the calibrate function to be done only once per session, or on a time basis like the i1Pro?

Is there a disk with the patterns for CC6 available for calibrating with a BR player? The GCD disk has these patterns.

thanks zoyd for all your time and effort.

D3 calibration only needs to be done once.

the GCD disk has the 6 patterns in both the 12 color checker chapter and the 24 color checker chapter. Use the ones from the 12 chapter and make sure the white reference you use is at 100% luminance. Unfortunately you have to go to another chapter to pick that one up at the end of the sequence.

@PeterLewis

10% window/22% APL from the GCD disk is what I use for everything. I don't know the best config for the colormunki, if it's the same hardware as a D3 then yes, use a plasma based correction matrix.
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post #1425 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 09:48 AM
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Hello all,

I'm new to calibration and would like to apologize in advance if this is the wrong place to ask these questions.

I purchased an X-Rite i1 Display 3 Pro (Retail) and have been trying to calibrate it with HCFR 3.0.4.0 (Following the Calibration for Dummies guide). However, the results seem too much on the red side, skin tones seem to be a little bit on the orange side.
I have also tried the latest HCFR (3.0.4.1) that I found in this thread, and I am getting the same results. I am not sure whether or not to use the i1d3 or d3test meter correction files which are available to select in this new version, I did not use them for now.
I am using the White LED spectral sample which I imported from the X-Rite software, this matches to my LCD LED TV (Sony HX929),

1) Do I need to do calibration on the D3 if I am using an LCD TV?

2) I noticed a lot of the posts in this thread were about a correction matrix for plasmas and the i1d3 having issues with red measurement when using plasmas,
does this apply to LCDs as well?

3) If I do use the meter correction files that are available in 3.0.4.1 from the dropdown menu, do I select a spectral sample as well on the next screen?

I am a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, and I would appreciate any kind of support, thank you.
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post #1426 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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1. no, for non-refresh displays you do not need to calibrate the d3 or colormunki display
2. no, not the same, plasma errors due to the red primary are not present on LCDs
3. don't use a correction matrix unless you know it was built for your type of display (the ones in the dropdown box are for plasmas), select spectral sample for LCD.



edit:

a new build of 3.0.4.1 is available, this includes some fixes to the display of the target color when in targeting mode using the CC6 colors. I've also cleaned up the d3 .thc files and made two available in the dropdown box for meter correction.

d3_standardplasma
d3_standardLCD

A note on choosing a matrix correction (.thc) vs. a color correction sample set (.ccss): Choose one or the other of these, not both. the matrix correction will give better results than the ccss on plasmas, not sure about LCDs since I haven't tested that.
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post #1427 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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How do you guys get your I1D3 or colormunki to sit flush on your plasma tv screen ?

i cant seem to get it flush on my screen no matter where I adjust the counter weight.

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Thanks for the reply Zoyd, greatly appreciated.

I calibrate using my HTPC with AVS HD 709 patterns, I usually set my color space standard to HDTV - REC 709 in HCFR.
I noticed that in the latest build, the standard color space is set to CC6 by default, should I just use that instead of HDTV - REC 709 along with GCD patterns?

Thanks again for the answers.
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post #1429 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alyupb View Post

I noticed that in the latest build, the standard color space is set to CC6 by default, should I just use that instead of HDTV - REC 709 along with GCD patterns?

Thanks again for the answers.

no, that's just because that was the last setting I used it in.smile.gif CC6 is a special mode to check a few critical colors, for normal calibration always use the rec 709 color space.
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post #1430 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 01:20 PM
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Is the standard plasma matrix profiled from your Samsung plasma with an i1pro zoyd?

I'll try the standard LCD matrix and compare it to the spectral samples when I get some time.

Thanks again for the new build.
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post #1431 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

How do you guys get your I1D3 or colormunki to sit flush on your plasma tv screen ?

i cant seem to get it flush on my screen no matter where I adjust the counter weight.

I use two different ways to get the meter to sit flush.

1. if you have a tripod, mount the d3 on it and lean the tripod toward the screen and adjust the tripod to get the meter flush

2. get some play-do and stick it on the meter to act as a balancing weight. On my set it goes on the top near the screen.

luckily the d3 does not need constant re-calibration like the i1pro so once its set you can forget about it.
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post #1432 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Is the standard plasma matrix profiled from your Samsung plasma with an i1pro zoyd?

yes and I took a look through the .ccmx files posted in the argyll database and most were consistent. The standard LCD is representative of CCFL IPS normal gamut LCDs from that database as well.
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post #1433 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 02:33 PM
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zoyd, i tried your standardplasma mtx but added too much red by almost 10% so i just used none and it seems right compared to a chroma 5 that measured my set prior.

Also the calibrate button would not work when i tried to synch up my munki on a 50% patch.

@vega

I just did my best wiggiling the counter weight and cable to get it as close to flush as possible.

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post #1434 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

zoyd, i tried your standardplasma mtx but added too much red by almost 10% so i just used none and it seems right compared to a chroma 5 that measured my set prior.
You mean it measured red high? The Chroma 5 is by no means a reference meter... the only way to know for sure would be to compare it to a spectro. On my i1D3, I can visually see too much red with no correction.

edit: nm, you have a colormunki. maybe it's different?
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post #1435 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

zoyd, i tried your standardplasma mtx but added too much red by almost 10% so i just used none and it seems right compared to a chroma 5 that measured my set prior.

Also the calibrate button would not work when i tried to synch up my munki on a 50% patch.

The colormunki doesn't use the calibrate function because it's integration time is slow enough that syncing to the refresh rate is not required. Regarding the correction matrix, it was built using a D3 so there must be some difference, try using the plasma spectral sample instead and see if compares better with the chroma 5.
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post #1436 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The colormunki doesn't use the calibrate function because it's integration time is slow enough that syncing to the refresh rate is not required. Regarding the correction matrix, it was built using a D3 so there must be some difference, try using the plasma spectral sample instead and see if com
pares better with the chroma 5.

There is no plasma spectrcal,there all lcd ccfl in the spectracal drop box..

Edit...I notice this spectral from the id3 xrite folder is missing in the HCFR spectral drop down,which is probably the one I need.

CCFLFamily_07Feb11.edr

Zoyd anyway to get that edr file to show up in the drop down box as all the other edr files show up but they are mostly for LCD and projectors.

Thanks..smile.gif

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post #1437 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

There is no plasma spectrcal,there all lcd ccfl in the spectracal drop box..

Edit...I notice this spectral from the id3 xrite folder is missing in the HCFR spectral drop down,which is probably the one I need.

CCFLFamily_07Feb11.edr

That's for an LCD so not good for plasma. If there are no plasma options showing in the spectral sample dropdown try adding Samsung_D8000.ccss from the attached zipfile to the appropriate directory. On winxp the directory is "c:\Documents and Settings\YOURUSERNAME\Application Data\color", I'm not sure if that's the same on win7.



SAMSUNG_D8000.zip 3k .zip file
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post #1438 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 05:02 PM
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I've noticed the free measures do not show up on the CIE chart unless one is selected, and then only that one. Since there have been no secondary color points on the CIE chart with windows 7 64 bit I have been editing the free measures for cyan, magenta and yellow to have them show.

Is it possible to get the secondaries back on the CIE chart?

Everything else seems to be working. I did notice I have to double check meter settings and some of the preferences when I open a saved file as they are not as I saved them.

ps this last revision really brought the speed up on the 30+ readings.

thanks
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post #1439 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't understand these issues and can't test win7 at the moment. All free measures show up on the CIE chart in realtime on winxp as well as the primary and secondary reference locations for whatever color space is chosen. There is no reason secondary points wouldn't show up if primaries do. Can you post a screen shot? Also, preferences are always restored properly here.

Rec709


CC6


Rec709(75%)+saturation sweeps
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post #1440 of 11718 Old 02-16-2013, 07:57 PM
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here you go.





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