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post #1441 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 01:00 AM
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@zoyd, do you think the standard LCD ccmx would be more accurate than the spectral sample? I re-checked my 32" LG CCFL LCD (IPS panel) after about a year. I originally used the CCFL IPS spectral sample to calibrate. Here are my measurements using no correction, the standard LCD ccmx and the CCFL IPS spectral sample.

No correction:
adjXsnGt.jpg

Spectral sample:
adl1mQI4.jpg

CCMX:
adu0m8WR.jpg
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post #1442 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 04:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

here you go.

It looks like this has to do with alpha blending of the bitmaps, are there other points missing? If you define a reference document with measures do the points (X's below) show up in your non-reference doc (display reference measure=on).


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post #1443 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 04:46 AM
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Zoyd,

I was reading the i1d3/colormunki manuals and they both use a default spectral sample called CCFL to use with their software that can be used with various display types (ie.Plasma)

Is your Samsung Spectral that you posted the same just renamed? If not any way to get that default CCFL to show up in the drop down list...Thanks buddy.

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post #1444 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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win7/8 users, try this executable replacement and tell me if the secondary points show up.

ColorHCFR.zip 2527k .zip file

@PeterLewis, CCFL=cold cathode fluorescent lamp and it has a very different spectral shape compared to plasma so I wouldn't use it. It's for LCD displays, you should use the plasma option spectral sample file. Below is a zipfile with all the stock D3 edrs converted to .ccss files+my plasma ccss+my macbookpro ccss+a standard CRT ccss. To make them appear in the dropdown box on my machine, I add them to the folder "c:\Documents and Settings\zoyd\Application Data\color"




ccss.zip 90k .zip file
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File Type: zip ColorHCFR.zip (2.47 MB, 109 views)
File Type: zip ccss.zip (90.2 KB, 145 views)
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post #1445 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 05:20 AM
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Thanks Zoyd,I'am trying out your Plasma (samsung) spectral and it is very close to what I was seeing using the colormunki in default,so this might do the trick.

Thanks again for all your effort,you have been extremely helpful.smile.gif

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post #1446 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 05:38 AM
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Unfortunately the new executable don’t show the secondary’s reference points (Win 7 64 bit)
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post #1447 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It looks like this has to do with alpha blending of the bitmaps, are there other points missing? If you define a reference document with measures do the points (X's below) show up in your non-reference doc (display reference measure=on).



the reference triangle appears, but no points for either primaries or secondaries. Windows 7 64bit.



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post #1448 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

Unfortunately the new executable don’t show the secondary’s reference points (Win 7 64 bit)


ok, try replacing the attached dll in the program directory and see if secondary bitmaps show up (english version only).


CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip 168k .zip file
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File Type: zip CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip (168.4 KB, 80 views)
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post #1449 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

ok, try replacing the attached dll in the program directory and see if secondary bitmaps show up (english version only).


CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip 168k .zip file

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post #1450 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1451 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 08:27 AM
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Zoyd,How did you come up with or find that plasma (samsung) spectral sample? It seemed to work fine as far as I can tell.

Also is there a Spectral sample for Panasonic Plasma or are they pretty much universal? Thanks

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post #1452 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Thanks for testing, last try.


CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip 168k .zip file

that got it. .......... smile.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #1453 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

Zoyd,How did you come up with or find that plasma (samsung) spectral sample? It seemed to work fine as far as I can tell.

Also is there a Spectral sample for Panasonic Plasma or are they pretty much universal? Thanks


I built it using tools from the ArgyllCMS software using my i1pro 2 and samsung D8000. all plasma spectral distributions are similar but there may be small differences between panasonics and samsungs, don't know how much that would affect the correction. The new ZT60 has a wider gamut (sharper) red primary so if you get one of those you'd need a spectral sample file based on those primaries. I haven't seen any panasonic specific .ccss files but there are two .ccmx available here. You can manually enter the matrix coefficients from those if you want to compare.


@vega509 great! now I know how to fix disappearing bitmaps in win7, what were the other ones that need fixing?
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post #1454 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 09:08 AM
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Hello everyone i need some help on how to install spyder3elite in hcfr 3.0.4.1 .


When i plug in the spyder 3 probe and then open hcfr i get the message "Incorrect driver,Starting communications with the meter failed with severe error.Argyll error". Then after i select to use spyder 3 as a sensor and press finish,then press play i get the error : Spyder 3 returned an error during initialization. Then another error : Error during sensor initialization.

Are there any step by step instructions on how to install spyder3 in hcfr 3.0.4.1? I've been searching for days on how to do it with no success.
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post #1455 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll upload a new build later with all the language files after getting the bitmap thing sorted, here is a new english resource dll with secondaries fixed as well as the reference data X (cross) marks (I hope). I couldn't find any others that needed updating so let me know what I missed.


CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip 169k .zip file
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File Type: zip CHCFR21_ENGLISH.zip (168.8 KB, 73 views)
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post #1456 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 10:50 AM
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as far as I can see here the dll file has solved all the graphic problems.

thanks zoyd
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post #1457 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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ok, good. I've uploaded the bitmap fixes and a few other minor updates (no version change), primarily to the foreign language files to add the color space menu selections. If anyone using the foreign language options wants to translate the new menu options send them to me and I'll include it.
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post #1458 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 12:25 PM
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I've been following this thread for some time now... mostly quiet and lingering in the background... but just had to say good job to both John and Zoyd. John, for bringing HCFR back on the table and making it a viable option for those of us who either can't afford to... or just don't want to... spend money on software which we may use once or twice on the only display we will have for the next 5 plus years. It would just be nice for John to chime in so we know that he is at least okay. I can think of a hundred perfectly legitimate reasons why John ceased development... work, family, etc... but sometimes we forget members become ill, or worse. I only say that because I noticed John hasn't posted anywhere on this forum since 8/8/2012. So it might be nice to know he is at least okay. And Zoyd for giving in to all the pleas rolleyes.gif by voluntarily taking on the task of making some much needed changes and testing them on his trusty version of Windows XP... a man of dedication. biggrin.gif Thanks.
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post #1459 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

@zoyd, do you think the standard LCD ccmx would be more accurate than the spectral sample? I re-checked my 32" LG CCFL LCD (IPS panel) after about a year. I originally used the CCFL IPS spectral sample to calibrate. Here are my measurements using no correction, the standard LCD ccmx and the CCFL IPS spectral sample.

I'd stick to the spectral sample unless you get a reliable correction matrix for your display, the one that is included was a random choice off of the displaycalGui database.
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post #1460 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 02:24 PM
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I have a question regarding the ccss zipfile you posted zoyd.

I'm using a colormunki display and your latest version of HCFR from sourceforge. Previously I had not used a correction file or spectral sample. If I understand the discussion above, for best results I should not use a correction file, but I should use the "LCD White IPS LED (WLED AC LG Samsung)" spectral sample from the zip file you posted for my Samsung ES8000, which is an sidelit LED/LCD TV?

Am I to somehow build my own spectral sample with the colormunki software? Or is that something that requires additional hardware?

Thanks again, your improvements to HCFR are awesome.
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post #1461 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

I have a question regarding the ccss zipfile you posted zoyd.

I'm using a colormunki display and your latest version of HCFR from sourceforge. Previously I had not used a correction file or spectral sample. If I understand the discussion above, for best results I should not use a correction file, but I should use the "LCD White IPS LED (WLED AC LG Samsung)" spectral sample from the zip file you posted for my Samsung ES8000, which is an sidelit LED/LCD TV?

This is the safest procedure. A correction matrix is built matching measurements from a spectrometer (i1pro or higher end meter) to an individual meter. D3 and colormunki display meters have low unit to unit variability so a matrix built for D3 (a) is similar to D3 (b) but there is no guarantee as to how similar. A spectral sample correction depends only on the display technology and is meter independent. Unfortunately it's not as good as a matrix correction built for your specific meter but it's better than no correction.
Quote:
Am I to somehow build my own spectral sample with the colormunki software? Or is that something that requires additional hardware?

yes, this is only possible if you have a spectrometer based meter and if you had one you'd build a matrix correction because it's more accurate.
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post #1462 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 04:40 PM
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Some X-Rite driver releases include a spectral sample file (.edr) for plasma displays, for instance the color calibration tools for Dell PremierColor displays that you can find here: http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/555/Product/dell-u2713h as the second application download "UltraSharp Color Calibration Solution Setup.exe". If you don't want to install this, you can use http://www.argyllcms.com/oeminst_win32_exe.zip from the ArgyllCMS V1.5 code base to locate and install the corresponding .ccss spectral sample files from the Dell install .exe.

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter
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post #1463 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Some X-Rite driver releases include a spectral sample file (.edr) for plasma displays, for instance the color calibration tools for Dell PremierColor displays that you can find here: http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/555/Product/dell-u2713h as the second application download "UltraSharp Color Calibration Solution Setup.exe". If you don't want to install this, you can use http://www.argyllcms.com/oeminst_win32_exe.zip from the ArgyllCMS V1.5 code base to locate and install the corresponding .ccss spectral sample files from the Dell install .exe.

Thanks a ton my friend,it was almost discouraging buying a colormunki display for my Plasma and not having any spectral or matrix...

Zoyds plasma spectral looks pretty good so far watching a few hours of HDTV content...American Idol had alot of pop.



EDIT: Ok I just got the files thanks.I had to look in the id3 folder and rerun id3.csss.

There is a Plasma spectral and an Oled spectral along with a RG_Phosphor spectral,which I giess is for the new ZT60 coming out...I recommend everyone to get these.

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post #1464 of 11718 Old 02-17-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

I've been following this thread for some time now... mostly quiet and lingering in the background... but just had to say good job to both John and Zoyd. John, for bringing HCFR back on the table and making it a viable option for those of us who either can't afford to... or just don't want to... spend money on software which we may use once or twice on the only display we will have for the next 5 plus years. It would just be nice for John to chime in so we know that he is at least okay. I can think of a hundred perfectly legitimate reasons why John ceased development... work, family, etc... but sometimes we forget members become ill, or worse. I only say that because I noticed John hasn't posted anywhere on this forum since 8/8/2012. So it might be nice to know he is at least okay. And Zoyd for giving in to all the pleas rolleyes.gif by voluntarily taking on the task of making some much needed changes and testing them on his trusty version of Windows XP... a man of dedication. biggrin.gif Thanks.

I hope John is ok, I've not seen any recent posts on his upsilon site either. He put in an awful lot of work improving the code structure and incorporating the Argyll meter support.

I had no idea if I could contribute anything when I started looking at the code but due to all the previous work by John and Ian (and help from Graeme) I think the updates have been useful.
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post #1465 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Some X-Rite driver releases include a spectral sample file (.edr) for plasma displays, for instance the color calibration tools for Dell PremierColor displays that you can find here: http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/555/Product/dell-u2713h as the second application download "UltraSharp Color Calibration Solution Setup.exe". If you don't want to install this, you can use http://www.argyllcms.com/oeminst_win32_exe.zip from the ArgyllCMS V1.5 code base to locate and install the corresponding .ccss spectral sample files from the Dell install .exe.


Thanks for the pointer to another plasma edr. I measured the differences between my matrix corrected probe and various .ccss corrections:

The dotted lines in the following plots are the matrix corrected results, the magenta lines are dE with respect to D65 and the light colored lines are dE with respect to the reference probe.

1st up is no correction. The uncorredted probe does not "see" enough of the red primary. dE ~7


Next is using the ccss I built using my i1pro 2. About half the error is corrected, dE ~3.8



Next is using the ccss from the dell color correction package, it actually does slightly better with dE ~3.5



Here is the OLED ccss from that package, pretty similar to plasma but a bit worse, dE ~3.9



And here is a CCFL LCD, better than uncorrected but not as good as a plasma correction, dE ~5.1
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post #1466 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

Thanks a ton my friend,it was almost discouraging buying a colormunki display for my Plasma and not having any spectral or matrix...

Zoyds plasma spectral looks pretty good so far watching a few hours of HDTV content...American Idol had alot of pop.



EDIT: Ok I just got the files thanks.I had to look in the id3 folder and rerun id3.csss.

There is a Plasma spectral and an Oled spectral along with a RG_Phosphor spectral,which I giess is for the new ZT60 coming out...I recommend everyone to get these.


Based on the above results I recommend you use that Plasma spectral from that package and then enter the following matrix in the sensor matrix correction box (this will correct for some of that remaining 3-4 dE error from the ccss). It's a small correction but see if it makes a difference.


1.015602 0.010555 -0.007374
0.009578 1.009817 -0.002631
-0.022921 0.024758 0.984179


Here are the 3 new .ccss files from the dell package:
OLEDFamily_20Jul12.ccss
PlasmaFamily_20Jul12.ccss
RG_Phosphor_Family_25Jul12.ccss
dell_ccss.zip 39k .zip file
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post #1467 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Based on the above results I recommend you use that Plasma spectral from that package and then enter the following matrix in the sensor matrix correction box (this will correct for some of that remaining 3-4 dE error from the ccss). It's a small correction but see if it makes a difference.


1.015602 0.010555 -0.007374
0.009578 1.009817 -0.002631
-0.022921 0.024758 0.984179


Here are the 3 new .ccss files from the dell package:
OLEDFamily_20Jul12.ccss
PlasmaFamily_20Jul12.ccss
RG_Phosphor_Family_25Jul12.ccss
dell_ccss.zip 39k .zip file

should a spectral be used if I profile my d3 from my i1pro?
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post #1468 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 07:56 AM
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Thanks Zoyd for the meter correction matrix with the plasma spectral.

I just did a greyscale run using the new plasma spectral and yours and they where pretty close.

Looks like I have to recalibrate tonight to see how your matrix works out with the spectral.

Thanks alot zoyd,you have been a great blessing.

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post #1469 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

should a spectral be used if I profile my d3 from my i1pro?

That's a great question. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot perceptually especially for the gray scale, but any time you reduce the magnitude of the matrix correction you'll run a better chance that when using it away from the white point (for CMS work for example), it will be more accurate.
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post #1470 of 11718 Old 02-18-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

That's a great question. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot perceptually especially for the gray scale, but any time you reduce the magnitude of the matrix correction you'll run a better chance that when using it away from the white point (for CMS work for example), it will be more accurate.

.......... or should I build a spectral sample within HCFR?
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