HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 72 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2131 of 11967 Old 06-19-2013, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2132 of 11967 Old 06-19-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

That 20pt chart looks to me like the TV has broken 10pt white controls. It's also interesting that the readings at the 10,20,30 etc levels do not match between the 10pt measure chart and 20pt measure.

Yes, every time the TV has been turned off and rested for several hours or more, the new reading will be different than before.
I tested this many times, it appears the i1 Display Pro really doesn't like temperature differences.
There are 3 ranges of readings that I can produce, all with i1DPro attached to the TV:
1. Immediately after turning on the TV.
2. Wait for 30 minutes while playing slides after turning on the TV, with no AC.
3. Wait for 30 minutes while playing slides after turning on the TV, with AC.

I choose #3, because #2 gets the TV and the room really really hot..

Even though I prepared 1 hour before measurement, the reading will be different every single time..
But the way the graph look will be similar, with similar high and low points.
And the dE difference is less than 1.
So, it's acceptable for me.. smile.gif
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post #2133 of 11967 Old 06-20-2013, 02:36 PM
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i know this might be chalk & cheese but is it better to hit the 100% target or the saturation's leading up to it?
reason i ask this is my green has a really bad dog leg shape.
if i get low dE upto 75% i have a dE of 6 at 100
so which would be better?
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post #2134 of 11967 Old 06-20-2013, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillycargt4cs View Post


i know this might be chalk & cheese but is it better to hit the 100% target or the saturation's leading up to it?
reason i ask this is my green has a really bad dog leg shape.
if i get low dE upto 75% i have a dE of 6 at 100
so which would be better?

saturations leading up to the primary are more important than the primary itself because natural colors are usually not fully saturated.
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post #2135 of 11967 Old 06-20-2013, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillycargt4cs View Post


i know this might be chalk & cheese but is it better to hit the 100% target or the saturation's leading up to it?
reason i ask this is my green has a really bad dog leg shape.
if i get low dE upto 75% i have a dE of 6 at 100
so which would be better?
I had the same issue. This is the best I was able to manage, I really should get around to setting up MadVR+ArgyllCMS to correct green fully.

One thing that was difficult and I don't know if I made the right decision was that in order to get the lower than 100% saturations in line I had to sacrifice a small outer slice of the gamut on the left side. I have no idea how much that missing slice impacts overall picture quality though.


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post #2136 of 11967 Old 06-20-2013, 04:30 PM
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I have made changes recently, (got a new TV, updated to 3.0.4.3, installed i1 Match for LT2 etc) and my i1D3Pro is acting strange on the first run with new TV.
Essentially the luminance reading seems way off. I am getting readings as low as 45cd/m.sq, for 100% IRE. I have not been ale to check against my old TV. Using the iProfile software on the laptop, the sensor seemed to be OK.

I have started to uninstall, to go back to3.0.4.2, but I guess I could have a fault on the sensor.

I used the Plasma EDR file, as usual, with Refresh. But I am wandering if the drivers have messed up somewhere, or if the refresh rate of new panel is having an effect.

Anyone seen anything like this before? Or recommendations? Thanks,

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post #2137 of 11967 Old 06-21-2013, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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The only mods in 3.0.4.3 are related to the pattern generator so probe behavior should be identical to version .2 Probably something related to installing i1 Match.
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post #2138 of 11967 Old 06-21-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

I had the same issue. This is the best I was able to manage, I really should get around to setting up MadVR+ArgyllCMS to correct green fully.

One thing that was difficult and I don't know if I made the right decision was that in order to get the lower than 100% saturations in line I had to sacrifice a small outer slice of the gamut on the left side. I have no idea how much that missing slice impacts overall picture quality though.

I can't imagine that missing slice is something that could ever be visually noticeable. The best way to evaluate whether or not further tweaking will be beneficial is to look at the dE's of memory colors. Right now HCFR only has the 6 color checkers implemented as a stand-alone color space. Sometime I will add a verification tool with many more of this type of color.
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post #2139 of 11967 Old 06-25-2013, 02:19 PM
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Maybe I misunderstood the functionality, but I thought I could use hcfr remotely (on a laptop) and generate patterns on my htpc, connected to my tv?

I also tried installing madvr on the laptop and connecting it to the one running on the htpc (so I can remotely control it), but that also results in an error in hcfr. Does that mean I need to install hcfr on the htpc? Is there any plans for network support? smile.gif
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post #2140 of 11967 Old 06-25-2013, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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HCFR on your pc should fine madVR for test pattern generation on any locally connected machine but madVR has to be rendering something so that HCFR can find it.
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post #2141 of 11967 Old 06-25-2013, 11:23 PM
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Yes, you need to playback a video with madVR in a media player on the HTPC (you can pause playback, though). Also, you need to enable LAN access via the madVR tray icon (right click -> Enable LAN access). If the firewall asks, allow madVR (or rather your media player) access to the LAN. Only that way remote controlled test patterns are possible.
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post #2142 of 11967 Old 06-26-2013, 10:37 AM
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I disabled the firewall on both computers, also started madvr by playing a movie (and pausing). I can connect fine using the madvr remote interface, and can control the movie, but hcfr can't seem to find it. I will try again tonight, maybe because I had the remote madvr connected already?
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post #2143 of 11967 Old 06-26-2013, 10:54 AM
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There should be no problem with multiple connections. Are you using the latest madVR build? The only thing coming to my mind would be if your PCs are connected through a router (not a switch!) and the router is somehow blocking the broadcast/multicast socket messages madVR is using to locate itself on the LAN...
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post #2144 of 11967 Old 07-01-2013, 10:24 AM
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My new settings. Better scale. Better colors. Especially red. But there is something that I do not understand. These are the settings when the player is running at 60 frames/s.





If I set 24 frames/sec is a gamut of looks like this. Does not look good.



Gray scale is almost identical if the settings are 60 or 24 frames/s.
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post #2145 of 11967 Old 07-02-2013, 09:24 AM
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@zoyd,

found 2 small problems:

(1) Now that I'm running HCFR with admin rights, the settings are nicely saved. However, although the "madVR" checkbox in the "Configure generator" dialog is remembered, it doesn't really work. If I start measurements right after starting HCFR, HCFR uses GDI for test patterns. I have to enter the "Configure generator" dialog and press "OK" (no changes in the dialog needed) to make HCFR really use madVR for the test patterns.

(2) If I minimize HCFR and then double click a "chc" file, the toolbars are all resorted under each other (one toolbar per line). Looks like HCFR thought that the window size was 0,0 or something, so it reconfigured all toolbars.
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post #2146 of 11967 Old 07-02-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2147 of 11967 Old 07-03-2013, 03:50 PM
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Hey, just a question for you guys. If you have to choose one, would you prioritize lower luminance error over correct saturation, or would you try to get the saturations to match up more closely to the target coordinates even if it increases the luminance error?

I just calibrated to BT.1886 because the other options kept looking like the shadow detail was being crushed, but both blue and red end up undersaturated at almost every point below 100%. The individual CMS Color controls on this TV also increase the luminance, so if I adjust the Red and Blue Color controls, then the luminances end up even higher than they already were in order to line up the saturation points. If I turn the main Color control down a step, then the other colours fall on their saturations a little better. It's basically like this:



The top is with no adjustments to red and blue and at the default Color setting, bottom is with adjusted red and blue and a step lower on Color. Is one technically a better compromise than the other?
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post #2148 of 11967 Old 07-03-2013, 11:07 PM
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If you have to choose one, I believe you should minimize the luminance error.

How do you measure so many saturation points? Was this recently added to HCFR?
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post #2149 of 11967 Old 07-03-2013, 11:53 PM
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I think it's been an option for at least the last two updates. Just go under "Measures>Parameters..." and then you can change the number of levels tested for grayscale and colour saturations.
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post #2150 of 11967 Old 07-04-2013, 01:06 AM
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heh, didn't even know that. thanks.
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post #2151 of 11967 Old 07-04-2013, 03:49 PM
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Hmm. Never mind.
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post #2152 of 11967 Old 07-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post

This question was answered a while back, but it din't seem like they were too sure of the answer, so I'm trying to get clarification.

For profiling a DLP Front Projector (BenQ W1070), should I select refresh or non refresh type?

I've profiled plasmas before using HCFR, but this is my first projector, so not sure.

Thanks.

Just bumping an old question from someone as I'll be calibrating one of these in the near future. Anyone use HCFR to calibrate a DLP projector? I'll be using an iD3 and HCFR.

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post #2153 of 11967 Old 07-14-2013, 06:37 PM
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When using the calibrate meter function with an i1D3 and it says to use a "white patch", is this the 30%-50% patch some mentioned, or a full 100% one?
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post #2154 of 11967 Old 07-14-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

When using the calibrate meter function with an i1D3 and it says to use a "white patch", is this the 30%-50% patch some mentioned, or a full 100% one?
If this is for refresh rate calibration, then something like 80% would be my current recommendation.

Author of ArgyllCMS and ArgyllPRO ColorMeter
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post #2155 of 11967 Old 07-14-2013, 07:03 PM
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^ Thanks. I guess it's for the refresh rate calibration, it doesn't specifically say, but I have the refresh mode selected for the i1D3 for doing readings on a plasma. I don't know what it's actually calibrating...just seemed like a good idea to click on it...

Edit: I'm using the AVSHD APL patterns BTW. Mostly I've just been taking readings so far, today I made my first actual minor adjustments to the RGB High and RGB Low (Pio 151). I used the 50% APL for the meter calibration, will do the same thing again tomorrow using the 80% APL for cal to see the diff.
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post #2156 of 11967 Old 07-15-2013, 10:29 AM
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I've done quite a bit of reading on calibrating a CMS but still am not 100% sure on a few things...

1) In using the AVS709 disc, it's best to use the 75% saturation windows for each color for calibration, correct?
2) Do I have to switch from REC709 to REC709 (75%) when using those patterns or is that just for the 75% Saturated/75% Luminance patterns on GCD?
3) Is it really necessary to do full saturation sweep readings of 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% saturations of each color? It seems to me you're only altering one point within each color while doing this.

Thanks!

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post #2157 of 11967 Old 07-15-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

I've done quite a bit of reading on calibrating a CMS but still am not 100% sure on a few things...

1) In using the AVS709 disc, it's best to use the 75% saturation windows for each color for calibration, correct?
2) Do I have to switch from REC709 to REC709 (75%) when using those patterns or is that just for the 75% Saturated/75% Luminance patterns on GCD?
3) Is it really necessary to do full saturation sweep readings of 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% saturations of each color? It seems to me you're only altering one point within each color while doing this.

Thanks!

I'll try to help, but if I'm incorrect or someone wants to chime in go for it.

1) I also use this disc and even when I do my plasma calibration, I use the 100% color windows. (on the AVS HD709 disc that = 100%/100%) A lot of people swear by the 75% when on plasma, but I feel using 100% is ok as well. (75% color on this disc = 75%/100%)
2) You are correct, you only switch to REC709 (75) when using both 75%/75% color patterns.
3) It's not necessary but it's good to do if you have the time to see how the other points are falling since most you will be seeing colors of all intensity depending on your content. I believe though if you calibrate using the 75% color patterns, when doing the saturation run, you will be lacking the needed patterns. Reason for this is that the AVS HD709 saturation patterns that go from 0-100% use the 100% color patterns. You can verify by comparing the 75% saturation red pattern against the 75% red color pattern.
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post #2158 of 11967 Old 07-15-2013, 12:49 PM
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1) AVSHD709 doesn't have the proper patterns for the rec.709 75% color space, you'll have to use something like the GCD 75% S/ 75% L patterns. AFAIK AVSHD709 only has 5pt saturation patterns (0, 25, 50, 75, 100) at 100% luminance (the saturation patterns), or 75% luminance patterns at 100% saturation (the 75% color patterns).

It's better to calibrate at 75/75 because most content is not fully saturated at 100% luminance. 75/75 is a better representation of real content.

3) I like to do it so that I can see how various saturation points are tracking, but it's not necessary. I would definitely recommend checking your saturations if you're calibrating at 100% saturation, because again, 100% saturation is not a good representation of real content. Just because 100% S is on point doesn't mean your other saturations will follow.
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post #2159 of 11967 Old 07-15-2013, 02:10 PM
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Thanks guys. I may just download the GCD disc then and run that for the CMS. So essentially, I'll have to run two calibrations? One with AVS for greyscale and then another with GCD for CMS (using REC709 75%)? Also, the xy targets for 75/75 that I will be aiming for during calibration are in the excel spreadsheet attached in the GCD thread right? I noticed the values change based on gamma/peak white... This seems much more complicated that say the CMS guide on curtpalme's site...

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post #2160 of 11967 Old 07-15-2013, 02:57 PM
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You can use GCD for both grayscale and color gamut.

When you select rec.709 75% (Advanced -> Preferences -> References -> Color space -> Standard -> HDTV REC 709 (75%)), HCFR will display the 75% saturation reference targets and xy coordinates when you hover the mouse over them. HCFR will also show you all of the saturation reference targets with little boxes. If the other saturation targets aren't shown, right click the CIE chart and check 'Display saturation targets'. You can also specify how many saturation reference points you want to display/measure by going to Measures -> Parameters... default is 4.
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