CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 195 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5821 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sjht View Post
what’s the yearly maintenance cost for the video pro $495 option? Thanks. Sj
$495
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post #5822 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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I just got a Samsung 2018 Q9FN. I have an older version of Calman Enthusiast (5.9.0), just before they supported Autocal on these TVs. I've done a manual calibration with MobileForge and the i1Display Pro meter, but could only accomplish a 2 Point Greyscale calibration manually. I've enclosed an image of the results.

I'm thinking of getting the upcoming Calman Home for Samsung, but am unclear on a few points and hoping for advice. I'm initially only going to do SDR calibration as MobileForge doesn't do HDR.

1. How automated is the Autocal process? Does it try different Gamma, Brightness, and Contrast settings, or does the user run Autocal multiple times with variations?
2. Is the addition of a specific TV type for QLED in the Meter settings important?
3. Can I expect to see any significant difference between my current results and a 20 Point Autocal with Calman set to LED Qled tv type?

Thanks
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post #5823 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
I just got a Samsung 2018 Q9FN. I have an older version of Calman Enthusiast (5.9.0), just before they supported Autocal on these TVs. I've done a manual calibration with MobileForge and the i1Display Pro meter, but could only accomplish a 2 Point Greyscale calibration manually. I've enclosed an image of the results.

I'm thinking of getting the upcoming Calman Home for Samsung, but am unclear on a few points and hoping for advice. I'm initially only going to do SDR calibration as MobileForge doesn't do HDR.

1. How automated is the Autocal process? Does it try different Gamma, Brightness, and Contrast settings, or does the user run Autocal multiple times with variations?
2. Is the addition of a specific TV type for QLED in the Meter settings important?
3. Can I expect to see any significant difference between my current results and a 20 Point Autocal with Calman set to LED Qled tv type?

Thanks
1. Autocal uses DDC instead of the user controls, so CalMAN loads the TV with an initial group of settings the autocal needs to run. Gamma is set by the user in CalMAN's "Workflow Basic Options" sheet before beginning the process.
2. Those are only for users with the CalMAN C-6 meter.
3. Only if you have a C-6. A regular I1D3 doesn't have those options available.
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post #5824 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
I just got a Samsung 2018 Q9FN. I have an older version of Calman Enthusiast (5.9.0), just before they supported Autocal on these TVs. I've done a manual calibration with MobileForge and the i1Display Pro meter, but could only accomplish a 2 Point Greyscale calibration manually. I've enclosed an image of the results.

I'm thinking of getting the upcoming Calman Home for Samsung, but am unclear on a few points and hoping for advice. I'm initially only going to do SDR calibration as MobileForge doesn't do HDR.

1. How automated is the Autocal process? Does it try different Gamma, Brightness, and Contrast settings, or does the user run Autocal multiple times with variations?
2. Is the addition of a specific TV type for QLED in the Meter settings important?
3. Can I expect to see any significant difference between my current results and a 20 Point Autocal with Calman set to LED Qled tv type?

Thanks
1. It will do a calibration based on your current settings. I end up doing several AutoCals based on different current settings and choose the best combinations.

2. I believe it is.

3. You should get a better 20 point. You may try +/- 1 gamma and 0 / 1 brightness and see which one works best for your panel.
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post #5825 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 01:53 PM
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What Royce pointed out applies. I assume you have a C6 if you see the QLED meter mode.
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post #5826 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
What Royce pointed out applies. I assume you have a C6 if you see the QLED meter mode.
Thanks. I do not have a C6 meter. I did not know that I'd never see it with my i1Display Pro. I did 2 runs, Gamma 0 and 1, the 1 produced better results. For whatever reason, I could not get the 20 point to work manually, but I don't have the experience of many on this forum.


Thanks again for your insights !!
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post #5827 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
Thanks. I do not have a C6 meter. I did not know that I'd never see it with my i1Display Pro. I did 2 runs, Gamma 0 and 1, the 1 produced better results. For whatever reason, I could not get the 20 point to work manually, but I don't have the experience of many on this forum.


Thanks again for your insights !!
20 point manually ... I run away! AutoCal + tweak after for me
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post #5828 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
Thanks. I do not have a C6 meter. I did not know that I'd never see it with my i1Display Pro. I did 2 runs, Gamma 0 and 1, the 1 produced better results. For whatever reason, I could not get the 20 point to work manually, but I don't have the experience of many on this forum.


Thanks again for your insights !!
There may only be a 10-point available with normal user menu controls. The DDC (Direct Display Control) used by Autocal uses 20 points, IIRC.

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post #5829 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
There may only be a 10-point available with normal user menu controls. The DDC (Direct Display Control) used by Autocal uses 20 points, IIRC.
I get 20 points on my Samsung TV settings menu, but they show up as standard 5%. The CalMAN DDC 20 point shows odd levels but close to the 5% ones. The darkest is 7% instead of 5%, and it's almost impossible to get below a dE of 3. You either go 3+ with higher gamma or if you try one click to go lower it goes 3+ with lower gamma. I use the setting producing lower gamma to help with black crush.

I'm talking SDR here. The HDR gray levels are truly weird, the highest is something like 78%.
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post #5830 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I get 20 points on my Samsung TV settings menu, but they show up as standard 5%. The CalMAN DDC 20 point shows odd levels but close to the 5% ones. The darkest is 7% instead of 5%, and it's almost impossible to get below a dE of 3. You either go 3+ with higher gamma or if you try one click to go lower it goes 3+ with lower gamma. I use the setting producing lower gamma to help with black crush.

I'm talking SDR here. The HDR gray levels are truly weird, the highest is something like 78%.
Ah. It's been a while since I did an Autocal on my KS8000. It has 2-point and 10-point in user controls, but more in DDC, IIRC.

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post #5831 of 6789 Old 03-14-2019, 07:23 PM
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Did anyone else have this issue?

Both my calibrating laptops had this week's Microsoft Windows 10 updates done to them. (Note: updates helped fix some of the networking issues - wireless still out of it!)
Both laptops ended up failing on me with Invalid License, and I had to get Spectracal support to de-activate.
Weird thing was, restarted both laptops, and they went into Calman without issue, but I did NOT have to re-activate?

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post #5832 of 6789 Old 03-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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thinking change to chromapure due to recent calman changes....took a look at lightspace..but..hmm seems more complicated..
whats your opinion on chromap?
cheers/H
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post #5833 of 6789 Old 03-15-2019, 02:43 PM
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thinking change to chromapure due to recent calman changes....took a look at lightspace..but..hmm seems more complicated..
whats your opinion on chromap?
cheers/H
I left Chromapure due to different results on the different workflow pages.
Also due to every meter had a charge, So 3 different meters, 3 additional charges. Versus Calman allowing a variety of meters to be used.
Lightspace, tried, and I guess I'm just to dumb to figure it out, and appears to be a lot of work to set up.
Calman, appears to be the easiest to use.
Until Home makes an appearance and we get some user feedback, we're all still in the dark currently.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
I left Chromapure due to different results on the different workflow pages.
Also due to every meter had a charge, So 3 different meters, 3 additional charges. Versus Calman allowing a variety of meters to be used.
Lightspace, tried, and I guess I'm just to dumb to figure it out, and appears to be a lot of work to set up.
Calman, appears to be the easiest to use.
Until Home makes an appearance and we get some user feedback, we're all still in the dark currently.
crap...was that with chroma v3?
hmm...i've been on calman enthusiast for many years....now i dont know what to do...
i need software that support lumagen lut and projectors... damn calman!..
/H
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post #5835 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 01:11 AM
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Hello, new to CalMAN here.
About a year & a half ago I bought a CalMAN Video Pro kit that contained a SpectraCal C6 HDR 2000 meter, a VideoForge Pro Test Pattern Generator (On latest firmware) and a FTDI USB to Serial converter. The CalMAN Pro is at 2018 R2 (5.9.1.76) & my TV is a Samsung 75” Q9FAM on Firmware 1262.0 supporting HDR10+
This will be my first attempt at a calibration, as I was unable to do this before. (I am awaiting cables that I now find I need)
Afew questions:
Will the calibration be global to the TV, or will I have to do it to each of the TV’s inputs? If that is the case, how can the TV’s OTA & streaming inputs be calibrated?
HDMI1 is fed by my Oppo UDP-203 for 4K & all disk service.
HDMI2 is fed from my Integra DHC-30.3 for programing 1080 and below.
Suggestions are appreciated
Thanks for the help

--Carl

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post #5836 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
Hello, new to CalMAN here.
About a year & a half ago I bought a CalMAN Video Pro kit that contained a SpectraCal C6 HDR 2000 meter, a VideoForge Pro Test Pattern Generator (On latest firmware) and a FTDI USB to Serial converter. The CalMAN Pro is at 2018 R3 (5.9.1.76) & my TV is a Samsung 75” Q9FAM on Firmware 1262.0 supporting HDR10+
This will be my first attempt at a calibration, as I was unable to do this before. (I am awaiting cables that I now find I need)
Afew questions:
Will the calibration be global to the TV, or will I have to do it to each of the TV’s inputs? If that is the case, how can the TV’s OTA & streaming inputs be calibrated?
HDMI1 is fed by my Oppo UDP-203 for 4K & all disk service.
HDMI2 is fed from my Integra DHC-30.3 for programing 1080 and below.
Suggestions are appreciated
Thanks for the help
If HDMI Inputs are all on board, all of them have to be calibrated. (If only using one or two, just calibrate the ones being used.) (Note: Make sure you select Current Source)
If using a Smart OCB, the same. Passive HDMI, not so much so, but you could check 2 different HDMI Inputs to see if they come up almost exactly the same. If different, back to calibrating them all, or at least the ones you're using.

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post #5837 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
If HDMI Inputs are all on board, all of them have to be calibrated. (If only using one or two, just calibrate the ones being used.) (Note: Make sure you select Current Source)

If using a Smart OCB, the same. Passive HDMI, not so much so, but you could check 2 different HDMI Inputs to see if they come up almost exactly the same. If different, back to calibrating them all, or at least the ones you're using.


Professional calibrators don’t calibrate each hdmi input that’s overkill and totally unnecessary imo , I have never done that and never plan on doing that .That even assumes inputs don’t share white balance settings all most all sets do so not even sure how that would be practical .


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post #5838 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 06:26 AM
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Professional calibrators don’t calibrate each hdmi input that’s overkill and totally unnecessary imo , I have never done that and never plan on doing that .That even assumes inputs don’t share white balance settings all most all sets do so not even sure how that would be practical .


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I certainly don’t calibrate all inputs. I calibrate one HDMI input, and then verify that the same calibration results are used across all inputs (Picture Mode, white balance settings, brightness setting, motion control, etc.). There are three places to match settings—HDMI2, which I use for my external sources being routed through my Marantz AVR (AppleTV, DirecTV DVR, and Oppo203), TV mode (for my OTA antenna), and the TV apps (Netflix and Prime).

I calibrate by hooking my laptop to the side HDMI port (HDMI1), and use the laptop to generate the patterns during calibration. With this approach, it would be difficult to calibrate HDMI2 without disconnecting the cable, and impossible to calibrate the TV OTA and internal apps. The only option is to verify that the results from HDMI1 are used across the other inputs, at least AFAIK.
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post #5839 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I certainly don’t calibrate all inputs. I calibrate one HDMI input, and then verify that the same calibration results are used across all inputs (Picture Mode, white balance settings, brightness setting, motion control, etc.). There are three places to match settings—HDMI2, which I use for my external sources being routed through my Marantz AVR (AppleTV, DirecTV DVR, and Oppo203), TV mode (for my OTA antenna), and the TV apps (Netflix and Prime).



I calibrate by hooking my laptop to the side HDMI port (HDMI1), and use the laptop to generate the patterns during calibration. With this approach, it would be difficult to calibrate HDMI2 without disconnecting the cable, and impossible to calibrate the TV OTA and internal apps. The only option is to verify that the results from HDMI1 are used across the other inputs, at least AFAIK.


Yeah that’s my point we are in agreement


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Like I mentioned. Calibrate 2, if almost exactly alike, set to All Sources. If different like I find, I calibrate both. One for my Input from the DVDO IScan Duo, and the other my UHD 4K Blu-ray player, plus HDR. Also calibrate the USB Input since that also covers the on board Apps. And this Input is definitely different than the HDMI Inputs. (But, if you're on All Sources, watch out!)

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To close to bother, or enough to bother?

Backlight, Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Tint (11 Point Grayscale not included for brevity - differences as well)

All the same: 6 45 96 0 50/50

HDMI 1 : 2 Point (Offsets Gains)

13 0 16 -13 0 -10

CMS:

Red: 33 9 4 Green: 28 47 6 Blue: 0 5 60 Yellow: 50 50 7 Cyan: 27 46 49 Magenta: 27 10 41

HDMI 2 : 2 Point

12 0 14 -13 0 -11

CMS:

Red: 32 9 3 Green: 28 48 6 Blue: 0 5 62 Yellow: 50 51 7 Cyan: 27 47 49 Magenta: 27 10 41

USB/Apps: 2 Point

10 0 10 -9 0 -8

CMS:

Red: 32 9 3 Green: 30 50 5 Blue: 0 5 58 Yellow: 53 52 7 Cyan: 28 45 48 Magenta: 20 10 37

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post #5842 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Backlight, Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Tint (11 Point Grayscale not included for brevity - differences as well)



All the same: 6 45 96 0 50/50



HDMI 1 : 2 Point (Offsets Gains)



13 0 16 -13 0 -10



CMS:



Red: 33 9 4 Green: 28 47 6 Blue: 0 5 60 Yellow: 50 50 7 Cyan: 27 46 49 Magenta: 27 10 41



HDMI 2 : 2 Point



12 0 14 -13 0 -11



CMS:



Red: 32 9 3 Green: 28 48 6 Blue: 0 5 62 Yellow: 50 51 7 Cyan: 27 47 49 Magenta: 27 10 41



USB/Apps: 2 Point



10 0 10 -9 0 -8



CMS:



Red: 32 9 3 Green: 30 50 5 Blue: 0 5 58 Yellow: 53 52 7 Cyan: 28 45 48 Magenta: 20 10 37


How do you know that variance isn’t due to meter tolerance ? Also are you speaking about Samsung’s or all makes and models ? What you are advocating is not best practice at least for the sets I have owned .


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post #5843 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:01 AM
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How do you know that variance isn’t due to meter tolerance ?


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I can do back-to-back autocalibrations on the same input, minutes apart, and get slightly different results. If I obsessed about not getting the same results all the time, I would have to give up doing calibrations.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
How do you know that variance isn’t due to meter tolerance ?


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You have to remember, he has a Samsung so I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Calibrating most Samsung's is very difficult because they are not very stable. On the Sony and LGs I've never seen any variation across HDMI ports or USB inputs.

Think about it, you have 4 HDMI ports, at least 2 or 3 USB ports and 2 SDR PMs, 1 HDR and 1 DV. I would need to charge about $1,000 to calibrate all these PMs for every input.

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post #5845 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I can do back-to-back autocalibrations on the same input, minutes apart, and get slightly different results. If I obsessed about not getting the same results all the time, I would have to give up doing calibrations.


I certainly can’t speak for tvs I don’t own but I have never found a significant difference between hdmi inputs and neither has my calibrator. What you are probably seeing is meter variance nothing to worry about.


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post #5846 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You have to remember, he has a Samsung so I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Calibrating most Samsung's is very difficult because they are not very stable. On the Sony and LGs I've never seen any variation across HDMI ports or USB inputs.



Think about it, you have 4 HDMI ports, at least 2 or 3 USB ports and 2 SDR PMs, 1 HDR and 1 DV. I would need to charge about $1,000 to calibrate all these PMs for every input.


Yeah I see your point and yes not very practical for professional calibrations and a waste of time at least for the sets I have owned.


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post #5847 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Professional calibrators don’t calibrate each hdmi input that’s overkill and totally unnecessary imo , I have never done that and never plan on doing that .That even assumes inputs don’t share white balance settings all most all sets do so not even sure how that would be practical .


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Some of us are hobbyists and willing to put in more time than a professional might. Calibrating USB inputs seperately from HDMI has benefits. Also different settings for SDR and HDR sources is useful.

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post #5848 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I certainly can’t speak for tvs I don’t own but I have never found a significant difference between hdmi inputs and neither has my calibrator. What you are probably seeing is meter variance nothing to worry about.


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I agree. And from my perspective, any differences are significant only if you can see them.
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post #5849 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
Some of us are hobbyists and willing to put in more time than a professional might. Calibrating USB inputs seperately from HDMI has benefits. Also different settings for SDR and HDR sources is useful.


I never said anything about usb I am questioning whether it necessary to separately calibrate each hdmi based on my experience with both professional and diy calibration my opinion is no it is not necessary, we are all free to do what ever we want obviously . I also never said anything about using sdr settings for hdr so not sure where you are getting that .


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post #5850 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You have to remember, he has a Samsung so I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. Calibrating most Samsung's is very difficult because they are not very stable. On the Sony and LGs I've never seen any variation across HDMI ports or USB inputs.

Think about it, you have 4 HDMI ports, at least 2 or 3 USB ports and 2 SDR PMs, 1 HDR and 1 DV. I would need to charge about $1,000 to calibrate all these PMs for every input.
WTH ... I get somewhat different results doing back-to-back calibrations on the same HDMI input
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