CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:24 AM
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I am sensitive to slight changes in color. See note below re Gamma Formula.
I was wondering why differences in results between my 2 calibrating 2 laptops.
Found out one laptop was using chadb's Gamma Formula set to Power. The other laptop was set to ITU BT1886.
Swapped out the Power setting for ITU BT1886 and re-calibrated. (Why I have the results this week)
I found that the ITU BI1886 ended up with a more Natural look than the Power setting.
Above results were from my I1Pro 2 calibrations
I also noted, re jrref, that he was calibrating a Samsung TV and they are more difficult, and have differences.

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post #5852 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
WTH ... I get somewhat different results doing back-to-back calibrations on the same HDMI input
Calibrations change as time goes on during the calibration. The more difficult the calibration the longer it's going to take, and the more changes that will happen. How long was the set on before starting to calibrate? I find some sets go wonky after a certain amount of time on.
Why I could never see why some want the TV calibrated to the nth degree, when the next day, it's changed. (I know, I'm shooting myself in the foot!)

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post #5853 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Calibrations change as time goes on during the calibration. The more difficult the calibration the longer it's going to take, and the more changes that will happen. How long was the set on before starting to calibrate? I find some sets go wonky after a certain amount of time on.
Why I could never see why some want the TV calibrated to the nth degree, when the next day, it's changed. (I know, I'm shooting myself in the foot!)
I wait a while and check drift on the meter so variances are in the same range rather than going down consistently before initial work after everything on for at least an hour. I usually try two or three different base settings to choose the best looking one, for CMS, but figure 20 minutes and I get a change after warm-up, and I don't fret about it for those reasons.

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post #5854 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by poppagene View Post
Some of us are hobbyists and willing to put in more time than a professional might. Calibrating USB inputs seperately from HDMI has benefits. Also different settings for SDR and HDR sources is useful.
Just curious, what do you use on the USB input? And how is a USB input calibrated?
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post #5855 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
I wait a while and check drift on the meter so variances are in the same range rather than going down consistently before initial work after everything on for at least an hour. I usually try two or three different base settings to choose the best looking one, for CMS, but figure 20 minutes and I get a change after warm-up, and I don't fret about it for those reasons.
Interesting because on the Sony's and LG's once the sets are warmed up, everything is stable and I just calibrate. HDMI and USB ports are identical but you are right on the Samsung's, they are very unstable.

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post #5856 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Interesting because on the Sony's and LG's once the sets are warmed up, everything is stable and I just calibrate. HDMI and USB ports are identical but you are right on the Samsung's, they are very unstable.
It's a feature
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post #5857 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 01:16 PM
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Samsungs are unstable? I have a 75" Q9f that I initially gave ~$10k for. (I got the price reduced somewhat before I took delivery) Since it was the top of the 2017 pile, hopefully it has a little better stability?

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post #5858 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Just curious, what do you use on the USB input? And how is a USB input calibrated?
You can play videos stored on USB hard drives. Calibration will also use patterns stored on the drive,
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post #5859 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 02:07 PM
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quick question...did any of you where in the beta testing program couple of years ago with calman?
and got the c6 meter for free?..( i did)
but now cant remember if i had to send in my old i1pro display meter for trade?..(i'm trying to find it ...but no luck.. )
cant recall selling it anyway......
cheers/H
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post #5860 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrc4u View Post
quick question...did any of you where in the beta testing program couple of years ago with calman?
and got the c6 meter for free?..( i did)
but now cant remember if i had to send in my old i1pro display meter for trade?..(i'm trying to find it ...but no luck.. )
cant recall selling it anyway......
cheers/H
I was in the beta testing for V5 and I think the C6 was free then. I got the i1pro2 at half price.

Ah the good old days!

Of course I could be misremembering. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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post #5861 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I was in the beta testing for V5 and I think the C6 was free then. I got the i1pro2 at half price.

Ah the good old days!

Of course I could be misremembering. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
yeah old times... =)
hmm..i got an i1pro2 also..hmm was there any trade in from i1display on that?
damn calman that closed the forum...now have no idea what happened to my old i1display...
/H
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post #5862 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
Samsungs are unstable? I have a 75" Q9f that I initially gave ~$10k for. (I got the price reduced somewhat before I took delivery) Since it was the top of the 2017 pile, hopefully it has a little better stability?
I think he meant that they have a tendency to get brighter over time when displaying a static pattern continuously. It makes your gamma a moving target unless you set your delays correctly. My KS8000 is like that. However, in my experience, it doesn't visibly manifest itself in watching real world content, because the image is constantly changing.

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post #5863 of 6789 Old 03-16-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Just curious, what do you use on the USB input? And how is a USB input calibrated?
I use patterns on a USB stick and calibrate manually with CalMAN

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post #5864 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
I think he meant that they have a tendency to get brighter over time when displaying a static pattern continuously. It makes your gamma a moving target unless you set your delays correctly. My KS8000 is like that. However, in my experience, it doesn't visibly manifest itself in watching real world content, because the image is constantly changing.
Correct and on the newer sets you can't turn off local dimming which makes this problem more of a moving target. CM Autocal works pretty well on the Samsung's and is a good way to overcome some of the issues. I'll be calibrating a 2019 Samsung soon so i'll see if there are any changes and or improvements.

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post #5865 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 07:39 AM
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How do you know that variance isn’t due to meter tolerance ? Also are you speaking about Samsung’s or all makes and models ? What you are advocating is not best practice at least for the sets I have owned .


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Personally, I applaud P5Browne for going the extra mile. Let’s not forget it’s a hobby for us home enthusiasts. In my opinion, regardless of stability across inputs, it gives us more time using the software and equipment, which is fun for us. Right? Obviously, if you have different video chain configurations across the inputs you should want to calibrate each video chain from source to display through the given input.


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Personally, I applaud P5Browne for going the extra mile. Let’s not forget it’s a hobby for us home enthusiasts. In my opinion, regardless of stability across inputs, it gives us more time using the software and equipment, which is fun for us. Right? Obviously, if you have different video chain configurations across the inputs you should want to calibrate each video chain from source to display through the given input.


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It is pretty straight-forward to calibrate each HDMI port being used, if one thinks there might be differences. But what about when we use the internal apps like Netflix? How would that Mode be calibrated? I am using the same settings when running the internal apps as I do for HDMI connections. What is the alternative?
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post #5867 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gr8sound View Post
Personally, I applaud P5Browne for going the extra mile. Let’s not forget it’s a hobby for us home enthusiasts. In my opinion, regardless of stability across inputs, it gives us more time using the software and equipment, which is fun for us. Right? Obviously, if you have different video chain configurations across the inputs you should want to calibrate each video chain from source to display through the given input.


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You guys are free to do whatever you want . I was just giving my experience listen to my input or don’t , I don’t really care honestly . If you want to put needless hours on your display for little or no benefit have at it .thats really all I have to say on the matter won’t be replying further .


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post #5868 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gr8sound View Post
Personally, I applaud P5Browne for going the extra mile. Let’s not forget it’s a hobby for us home enthusiasts. In my opinion, regardless of stability across inputs, it gives us more time using the software and equipment, which is fun for us. Right? Obviously, if you have different video chain configurations across the inputs you should want to calibrate each video chain from source to display through the given input.


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I agree, but the reality is your panel will heat up and cool down depending on which patches you display and for how long when calibrating which will change your readings. This is one of the more significant reasons why it looks like the calibration is changing slightly when you take multiple readings. Even the room temperature will have an effect. Every time we talk about this we find that everyone, including the professionals have their own process to address this. At the end of the day any changes less than a deltaE <1 are basically irrelevant since your eye will not be able to see it. You will probably see variances less than this typically even if you have "those magic eyes", so no need to worry about it unless you enjoy calibrating continuously. So it's probably best to use whatever process you find works, calibrate as accurately as possible in a reasonable amount of time and you should be good.

As far as calibrating every input, they all should be at the same point in the video chain. The only change could be the tolerances of the electrical components where these days everything us usually on one chip making variances even less likely. And everything is digital so my personal opinion is you shouldn't be able to see a difference even if there was a slight variance.
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post #5869 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It is pretty straight-forward to calibrate each HDMI port being used, if one thinks there might be differences. But what about when we use the internal apps like Netflix? How would that Mode be calibrated? I am using the same settings when running the internal apps as I do for HDMI connections. What is the alternative?
The USB calibration also covers the Internal APP settings
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post #5870 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 10:59 AM
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The USB calibration also covers the Internal APP settings
Well, I still don’t know how to do a USB calibration. I know it is a manual process using test patterns from a USB drive. Searching for USB test patterns yields a bunch of hits, but I have no idea which one to choose.

I remain unconvinced that the results from the autocal on an HDMI port applied to the internal apps is not a perfectly good solution for all but the most obsessive perfectionists among us. Am I wrong?
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post #5871 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, I still don’t know how to do a USB calibration. I know it is a manual process using test patterns from a USB drive. Searching for USB test patterns yields a bunch of hits, but I have no idea which one to choose.

I remain unconvinced that the results from the autocal on an HDMI port applied to the internal apps is not a perfectly good solution for all but the most obsessive perfectionists among us. Am I wrong?
Don't waste your time. On your set it's not necessary to calibrate every input since they are all the same.

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post #5872 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 12:45 PM
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Don't waste your time. On your set it's not necessary to calibrate every input since they are all the same.
Thanks for confirming, John!
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post #5873 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 01:38 PM
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i've been on calman enthusiast for many years....now i dont know what to do...

i need software that support lumagen lut and projectors...

Keep using it?
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post #5874 of 6789 Old 03-17-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, I still don’t know how to do a USB calibration. I know it is a manual process using test patterns from a USB drive. Searching for USB test patterns yields a bunch of hits, but I have no idea which one to choose.

I remain unconvinced that the results from the autocal on an HDMI port applied to the internal apps is not a perfectly good solution for all but the most obsessive perfectionists among us. Am I wrong?
You could use Ted's patterns for SDR and Ryan's for HDR.
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Lightspace, tried, and I guess I'm just to dumb to figure it out, and appears to be a lot of work to set up.
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thinking change to chromapure due to recent calman changes....took a look at lightspace..but..hmm seems more complicated..
Hey guys,

For keeping this thread focused to CalMAN stuff, I have replied to your questions there.
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post #5876 of 6789 Old 03-18-2019, 06:51 PM
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hi guys, i recently purchased Calman 5 and been trying to do 3DLUT to use with madvr tone mapping.
i m using it to calibrate my BenQ LK970 laser projector.
i tried running couple of REC709 lightning LUT and the result was good but i noticed the 100% saturation points were way off after validating , around 10+DE for each color while the inner points were mostly less than 2-3DE. So i decided to try and run more patches (80min run) but i m getting very visible posterization on bright highlights, whenever i rerun lightning LUT it looks normal but with longer pacthes and same settings this problem comes back.
not sure if its my meter ( spyder 5) , any help would be appreciated.

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post #5877 of 6789 Old 03-21-2019, 04:53 AM
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Does no one really have the same issue i have or this thread is not active anymore.
Ted any ideas of what should i do?

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post #5878 of 6789 Old 03-21-2019, 05:08 AM
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Does no one really have the same issue i have or this thread is not active anymore.
Ted any ideas of what should i do?
I can only suggest that you raise a ticket with Spectracal Support.

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post #5879 of 6789 Old 03-21-2019, 06:49 AM
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So I have an i1 Display Pro (newer one) and a P Series Quantum and am trying to figure out which meter profile to use. I don't see anything about having a Quantum filter. Would I just use LCD LED or Raw?

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post #5880 of 6789 Old 03-21-2019, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
design function grayed out in 2018 ver.
what am i missing?
did it get taken away?
Hi, When someone has CalMAN 2016 or earlier then natively can open custom workflows.

Custom workflows can be opened/saved by CalMAN Enthusiast (or other license level with Design Add-On) and from CalMAN Ultimate users.

For the CalMAN Enthusiast users of CalMAN 2017 R2 or 2018, the Design Add-On is not supplied with the license by default.

When any home user (only) wants it, it will be provided a free design mode add-on license from SpectraCAL, user has to request that from SpectraCal asking for that feature, you can see there why it's been disabled by default: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
In Enthusiast, for some time now you need to contact Support to get the Add-On provided.
Here is the form: https://calman.spectracal.com/techsupport.html

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