CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 220 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6571 of 6598 Old 06-03-2019, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
As said before CM 2018 does.


I’m sorry but we’ve never had that ability to programmatically change it, besides having the user manually change it on the source tab drop-down for resolution setting.

CalMAN just inherits whatever resolution setting you have manually set on the device before connection to CalMAN. Which you can then manually change on the source tab. But the Samsung SDR/HDR workflows do not do it automatically and have never done it.

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post #6572 of 6598 Old 06-03-2019, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I’m sorry but we’ve never had that ability to programmatically change it, besides having the user manually change it on the source tab drop-down for resolution setting.

CalMAN just inherits whatever resolution setting you have manually set on the device before connection to CalMAN. Which you can then manually change on the source tab. But the Samsung SDR/HDR workflows do not do it automatically and have never done it.

I am sorry, but prior to having to change it when attempting a HDR calib using CM 2019 I never once set the res since I have owned the CalMAN Video Pro Cal Pkg.
When I changed the Res, I then had the TV in HDR mode. Things again fell apart when I was unable to select Samsung 2017 Q9f on the TV tab.

Since I had to have a functional CalMAN, I deactivated CM 2019 & removed as much of it as I could (I did not go into the Registry) and installed CM 2018.

Things now worked as expected. (The Res was set correctly) And I was able to select Samsung 2017 Q9F.

--Carl
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post #6573 of 6598 Old 06-03-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
I am sorry, but prior to having to change it when attempting a HDR calib using CM 2019 I never once set the res since I have owned the CalMAN Video Pro Cal Pkg.
When I changed the Res, I then had the TV in HDR mode. Things again fell apart when I was unable to select Samsung 2017 Q9f on the TV tab.

Since I had to have a functional CalMAN, I deactivated CM 2019 & removed as much of it as I could (I did not go into the Registry) and installed CM 2018.

Things now worked as expected. (The Res was set correctly) And I was able to select Samsung 2017 Q9F.


Can you make a screen-recording or video of this behavior? None of the things you describe are dependent on each other in the software. The displays available for DDC connection have nothing to do with the pattern generator in any way.

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post #6574 of 6598 Old 06-03-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Can you make a screen-recording or video of this behavior? None of the things you describe are dependent on each other in the software. The displays available for DDC connection have nothing to do with the pattern generator in any way.

No, as I have stated, I had to fall back to CM 2018. I understand that my inability to select Samsung 2017 Q9f was not dependent on the Res, but it is dependent on CM software ver. (2019)

--Carl
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post #6575 of 6598 Old 06-03-2019, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calentz View Post
No, as I have stated, I had to fall back to CM 2018. I understand that my inability to select Samsung 2017 Q9f was not dependent on the Res, but it is dependent on CM software ver. (2019)


I just checked the code, and Samsung 2017 is enabled for CalMAN 2019 Video Pro license level.

It is possible that there was a bad upgrade that happened With your specific installation.

I would recommend doing a clean install of Calman 2019.

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post #6576 of 6598 Old 06-04-2019, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I just checked the code, and Samsung 2017 is enabled for CalMAN 2019 Video Pro license level.

It is possible that there was a bad upgrade that happened With your specific installation.

I would recommend doing a clean install of Calman 2019.

I guess you are saying that what I was seeing / experiencing was highly unlikely. You might remember that I repeatedly asked / requested that CalMAN 2019
be checked the way I attempted to use it.

You may also remember that I posted ALL the info about the computer (My laptop) even down to the Win 10 build,
the SSD model, 32 Meg of matched DDR4 SODIMMM....in short, everything about the computer.

I am retired from the computer industry & in my experience, if corrupted software was installed - there would have been far worse problems (Although I am
not saying that there was no possibility)


Also note: CalMAN never reported that an upgrade was avail, I have always had to download & do the upgrade that way.


In the future I would be willing to again do a "Clean Install" but cannot do it right now. I am still hoping that someone here that has like equipment can
Verify my problem -- thank you very much

--Carl
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post #6577 of 6598 Old 06-04-2019, 10:11 AM
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Is there any calibration difference for the Samsung 2018 Q9FNs between local dimming low and standard? Switching between them doesn't seem to change visually.

---------------------------------------
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post #6578 of 6598 Old 06-12-2019, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
Is there any calibration difference for the Samsung 2018 Q9FNs between local dimming low and standard? Switching between them doesn't seem to change visually.
I have seen very little difference.

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post #6579 of 6598 Old 06-12-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I have seen very little difference.
Thanks, Tyler, it seems that way. Wonder what they had in mind .

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post #6580 of 6598 Old 06-16-2019, 07:44 AM
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I am trying to better understand DV calibration with my Vizio PQ65. I have used the DVGR before with my 2017 P model and the EOTF of the TV was very close to the DVGR. My PQ65 however doesn't look so good precal. Using my C6 HDR2000 nets a peak brightness reading of 2465nits and the DVGR is fixed at 2000nits. I know the meter is only rated to be accurate up to 2000nits so I'm not sure how accurate that reading is. The HDR10 calibration automatically adjusts the EOTF based on the peak brightness reading. When using a DVGR the values are fixed. Backlight only controls mid-tone Luminance and has no effect on peak brightness. Making multipoint adjustments is an extreme pain in the ass as the target points don't line up with the pattern readings. Making adjustments to any point will have an effect on the whole EOTF curve. I understand the roll off point is normal and shouldn't be flat.

Vizio really isn't any help here. I have wasted hours on the phone with them just to try and speak with someone who can explain the DV calibration process, but never get any help. Am I supposed to match the peak brightness reading to the EOTF? How? Any other pointers for DVGR calibration to make it easier? I have only used 2pt for now, so any help on this matter will be appreciated.
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post #6581 of 6598 Old 06-16-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I am trying to better understand DV calibration with my Vizio PQ65. I have used the DVGR before with my 2017 P model and the EOTF of the TV was very close to the DVGR. My PQ65 however doesn't look so good precal. Using my C6 HDR2000 nets a peak brightness reading of 2465nits and the DVGR is fixed at 2000nits. I know the meter is only rated to be accurate up to 2000nits so I'm not sure how accurate that reading is. The HDR10 calibration automatically adjusts the EOTF based on the peak brightness reading. When using a DVGR the values are fixed. Backlight only controls mid-tone Luminance and has no effect on peak brightness. Making multipoint adjustments is an extreme pain in the ass as the target points don't line up with the pattern readings. Making adjustments to any point will have an effect on the whole EOTF curve. I understand the roll off point is normal and shouldn't be flat.

Vizio really isn't any help here. I have wasted hours on the phone with them just to try and speak with someone who can explain the DV calibration process, but never get any help. Am I supposed to match the peak brightness reading to the EOTF? How? Any other pointers for DVGR calibration to make it easier? I have only used 2pt for now, so any help on this matter will be appreciated.
Can you post some graphs to show where your are having difficulty?

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post #6582 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM
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@WiFi-Spy

Is there a tech support phone# anymore? I just spent the last 20 minutes looking for it on the updated website. It isn't like anyone ever answered or returned my calls in the past, but I just wanted to check.

I did a fresh reinstall of windows on my calibration laptop last night. Before hand I tried to deactivate my license from Calman, but failed. I'm not sure if you guys intend on having customers be in the dark who need assistance asap, but something needs to change.

I guess I'll email support and see how long it takes for a paying customer to get the issue resolved.

Edit: I did a Google search to find the number no longer listed on your website. It still is set up like a tech support phone number...

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post #6583 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Can you post some graphs to show where your are having difficulty?

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The graphs are irrelevant. DVGR assumes the display being calibrated has a peak brightness output of 2000nits. Mine outputs 2465nits. It's a flawed system. I wish Vizio would do what LG does for DV calibration.
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post #6584 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
@WiFi-Spy

Is there a tech support phone# anymore? I just spent the last 20 minutes looking for it on the updated website. It isn't like anyone ever answered or returned my calls in the past, but I just wanted to check.

I did a fresh reinstall of windows on my calibration laptop last night. Before hand I tried to deactivate my license from Calman, but failed. I'm not sure if you guys intend on having customers be in the dark who need assistance asap, but something needs to change.

I guess I'll email support and see how long it takes for a paying customer to get the issue resolved.

Edit: I did a Google search to find the number no longer listed on your website. It still is set up like a tech support phone number...


Our main support is via email. Also yesterday was Sunday, we are only in the office Monday through Friday 9-5 Pacific time.

Can you give more information on why the deactivation failed? Did it give an error?

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post #6585 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Our main support is via email. Also yesterday was Sunday, we are only in the office Monday through Friday 9-5 Pacific time.

Can you give more information on why the deactivation failed? Did it give an error?
Oh I know yesterday you weren't open. I never said I tried contacting yesterday. I have called the support number in the past a few times during business hours and only get voicemail. Leaving voicemail does nothing as I never get called or contacted back.

I don't know what happened. I went to remove the license from Calman and it appeared to work as it went into trial mode. I then formatted and installed Windows on the same drive. Reinstalled Calman. Entered my license info and was given an error that I had no activations left.

Enthusiast 2019 v5.10

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post #6586 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
The graphs are irrelevant. DVGR assumes the display being calibrated has a peak brightness output of 2000nits. Mine outputs 2465nits. It's a flawed system. I wish Vizio would do what LG does for DV calibration.
They were because I didn't understand what you issue was but now I see. So if the target is 2000 then that's the target. Your panel may be on the high end of the variance. This is a problem with having a DVGR but it's better than not having one.

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post #6587 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
They were because I didn't understand what you issue was but now I see. So if the target is 2000 then that's the target. Your panel may be on the high end of the variance. This is a problem with having a DVGR but it's better than not having one.

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Yes and no. Since my unit doesn't even come close to what the DVGR requires, then I have no idea how close my output is to the target points on the grayscale and CMS. This makes the DVGR in my case virtually useless.
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post #6588 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Yes and no. Since my unit doesn't even come close to what the DVGR requires, then I have no idea how close my output is to the target points on the grayscale and CMS. This makes the DVGR in my case virtually useless.
Does your TV follow fairly closely except towards the upper end? Can I see a precal scan?

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post #6589 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Does your TV follow fairly closely except towards the upper end? Can I see a precal scan?

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No. Grayscale and CMS do not come close to the target points.

And that is to be expected as the DVGR target points are all based on a perfect 2000nit output.

I can't take advantage of my unit max output, but I have not figured out a way to reduce the max output to match the DVGR. Backlight does not effect peak brightness, only mid tones.

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post #6590 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
No. Grayscale and CMS do not come close to the target points.

And that is to be expected as the DVGR target points are all based on a perfect 2000nit output.
Well there are 2 ways you can affect peak brightness. You can adjust contrast to lower peak and you can adjust all 3 gain controls to lower peak.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
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post #6591 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Well there are 2 ways you can affect peak brightness. You can adjust contrast to lower peak and you can adjust all 3 gain controls to lower peak.

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Yes I have tried that and it makes things worse.
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post #6592 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Yes and no. Since my unit doesn't even come close to what the DVGR requires, then I have no idea how close my output is to the target points on the grayscale and CMS. This makes the DVGR in my case virtually useless.
Yep. That is approximately 23% more nits than what is found for the DVGR. Because of that, the target points are very different (and that is a large deviation from the idealized file).

This is why I've been trying to understand how, why, and what went into the decisions on how to shape the luminance curve and what target values or diffuse white value is set, especially for different display mfrs. I understand the file having a custom coordinate target set for the primary colors in the DVGR, which better matches what the display is capable of reaching, even if they cannot be set custom in programs for 2084 except through loading the file. But display variance is why DV 2.0 moved away from setting a target like Vizio is still doing.

I'd love if someone could point me to documents to understand DV more fully, as it seems it has been kept, in part, as a black box in implementation for calibration.
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post #6593 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajc9988 View Post
Yep. That is approximately 23% more nits than what is found for the DVGR. Because of that, the target points are very different (and that is a large deviation from the idealized file).

This is why I've been trying to understand how, why, and what went into the decisions on how to shape the luminance curve and what target values or diffuse white value is set, especially for different display mfrs. I understand the file having a custom coordinate target set for the primary colors in the DVGR, which better matches what the display is capable of reaching, even if they cannot be set custom in programs for 2084 except through loading the file. But display variance is why DV 2.0 moved away from setting a target like Vizio is still doing.

I'd love if someone could point me to documents to understand DV more fully, as it seems it has been kept, in part, as a black box in implementation for calibration.
Really what all the manufacturers should be doing is what Sony implemented. Calibrate SDR and mathematically set HDR 10 and DV accordingly.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
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post #6594 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
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Yes I have tried that and it makes things worse.
Yea I could see that. Sucks when you don't have achievable specific targets you can reach.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
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post #6595 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Really what all the manufacturers should be doing is what Sony implemented. Calibrate SDR and mathematically set HDR 10 and DV accordingly.

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I need to give some thought to that in order to think of the pros and cons of such implementation, although it does sound interesting. Thank you for that (didn't realize that is how Sony implemented it).
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post #6596 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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GOOD LUCK with that...I sent an email to [email protected] and [email protected] on MAY 3RD, and NEVER received a response. :-|

Paul

Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
@WiFi-Spy

Is there a tech support phone# anymore? I just spent the last 20 minutes looking for it on the updated website. It isn't like anyone ever answered or returned my calls in the past, but I just wanted to check.

I did a fresh reinstall of windows on my calibration laptop last night. Before hand I tried to deactivate my license from Calman, but failed. I'm not sure if you guys intend on having customers be in the dark who need assistance asap, but something needs to change.

I guess I'll email support and see how long it takes for a paying customer to get the issue resolved.

Edit: I did a Google search to find the number no longer listed on your website. It still is set up like a tech support phone number...

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibrations https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #6597 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM
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I have sent emails to their support team and received responses within about 10 minutes. This was just a couple of weeks ago.
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post #6598 of 6598 Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
GOOD LUCK with that...I sent an email to [email protected] and [email protected] on MAY 3RD, and NEVER received a response. :-|



Paul
I did just receive an email that my issue was resolved. Support seems to work a lot better when I tap all support options. I feel your pain. I would recommend trying again. Also try the support # 1-925-227-2700. Maybe PM Tyler as he usually can get the ball rolling.
skschatzman is offline  
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