LightSpace 3D LUT Home Cinema Calibration Software - Page 74 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2191 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Using your data Steve found the problems, we trust your measurements.

This specific gamut problem its a device issue, not only the specific model you have issue, but there a lot of other JVC which suffering from the same problem.

You have an American JVC projector in Europe, so seems that you have some serious contacts in USA, but you opened I see a new thread about that projector AutoCAL to another forum, not in AVSForum, something you where doing at past year models. (while AVSForum is the most popular forum in the world)

Thinking about the above, I find impossible to accept from your side that there is any fault being on JVC's part and always it will be a LightSpace (or other software problem).

The same problems you have find with CalMAN also, for that reason Lightning LUT provide you better results (since it has zero volumetric info...where the issues are starting when you generating volumetric correction, with lower saturation boost).

Anyway, LightSpace is working on solutions for such problematic devices gamut's, so stay tuned...
I opened the new calibration thread in a different forum mainly because I was offered more support there. I had not started a new thread on AVS since 2016, so it's not really a new thing.

I am still active on AVS and have reported many issues with the new JVCs (especially regarding the dynamic iris implementation in HDR and the colorspace bug with forced YCC422 in 12bits), on both forums, including in the post just above yours and recently in this owner's thread for the new models. I also mentioned them in the new calibration thread, in my first impressions and in the "suggestions to JVC for improvements". You clearly are not following the JVC threads very closely.

I never said that the issues are always with Lightspace. Just that in my experience, when there is an issue with Lightspace, it's the user or the display that is blamed, and the issue isn't fixed, the user is asked to perform convoluted manual steps as a workaround. This is what I am protesting against. Also you say that my measurements are trusted, well, not really. I was asked to produce far too many measurements the last time, and when I was asked to produce more, I refused as it was not needed. I was correct as the existing measurement were indeed enough for Steve to identify the issue *in Lightspace* that was causing posterization, and to create manually a LUT that resolved it using the convoluted LUT concatenation process. So yes, if my feedback was taken more seriously and if I wasn't asked to jump through hoops every time I report something, no doubt I would be less frustrated. I would also be happy to use email as a way to communicate.

You are correct, I do have some issues with Calman too and I have reported them many times, but at the moment I get excellent results with it on the rs2000 and as the interface is better for my needs, I use it more. If the outstanding issues with Lightspace were resolved, especially regarding madVR support, I would no doubt use LS more, especially for larger LUTs, at least until CM resolves its outstanding issues.

Anyway, as you said I've made all my points very clear. I just hope that attitude towards experienced JVC and madVR users will change in this thread.

I'm glad to hear that improvements are coming for undersaturated displays, though this isn't an issue I have at the moment with the rs2000.

By the way, you have my email, if you want to discuss any of this, you know how to reach me. It might be a good idea to clear the air.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models
Batch Utility V3.31 March 31 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 04-04-2019 at 06:40 AM.
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post #2192 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi,

The gamma value is what you see when you are looking the DifGamma chart: https://www.lightillusion.com/profil...splay_difgamma

(You can see the gamma value for each point, as it is shows relative to the target color space gamma value.)
That is not easy to do when the target gamma is not a constant value (e.g. BT.1886).
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post #2193 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That is not easy to do when the target gamma is not a constant value (e.g. BT.1886).
If you understand gamma, it is not so difficult, see:



The DifGamma plot shows the measured gamma value relative to the target gamma value.

So targeting a power law gamma 2.4 shows the BT.1886 values.

Targeting BT.1886 directly would show the difference between the compound BT.1886 gamma and the actual measured value.

This is probably more useful than knowing the actual gamma values per each point.

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post #2194 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
If you understand gamma, it is not that difficult, see:



The DifGamma plot shows the measured gamma value relative to the target value.

So in this case, targeting a power law gamma 2.4 shows the BT.1886 values.

Targeting BT.1886 directly would show the difference between the compound BT.1886 gamma, and the actual measured value, which is probably more useful than knowing the actual gamma values per each point.
What graph are you showing here? According to the “LightSpace convention” in the link you provided, in a DifGamma graph a point with gamma 2.0 would be shown to be 0.4 above the 2.4 line, not below.

Quote:
The DifGamma display shows differential gamma values, with points above the line having a lower gamma value, so showing a lighter image display, and points below the line having a higher gamma value, so a darker image display.
That convention is totally illogical, but that’s beside the point here.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-04-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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post #2195 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 08:30 AM
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Good spot Dominic - I actually plotted a power law 2.4 gamma vs. BT1886 target for a display with the same black level.
Forgot I plotted it that way round.
Have inverted the graph to be the opposite now, so it now shows BT1886 vs. a target 2.4 gamma.

The graphs comes from here: https://www.lightillusion.com/error.html#bt1886_gamma

Steve
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post #2196 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 09:08 AM
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If “The first and last points have no valid gamma value” then they should not be plotted on the DifGamma graph. The graph shows them as having a gamma of 2.4.
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post #2197 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 09:24 AM
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It's just a default 'zero' plot for no data.
But, I do understand the comment, and a change has been on the WIBNI list for some time.
However, other more important things keep bumping it down the list...


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post #2198 of 2202 Old 04-04-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LightSpace is working on solutions for such problematic devices gamut's, so stay tuned...
Looking forward to that update. I hope the new solutions will apply to my Sony TV too.
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post #2199 of 2202 Old 04-07-2019, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.2922 (21 March 2019) has been released.

Release Notes (incremental changes):

Add Sony ImageDirector 1D LUT format (for projectors).
Quote:
Originally Posted by vollans View Post
Fantastic - once I’m back on my feet and can physically get about again, I’ll have to give it a go and see how it goes with my Sony 760/885.
OK, I’m mobile, and been able to get to my theatre room, hook up the Sony to the network, and see how it goes. First impressions are great. It’s early days, but I’ve been mainly playing with using the new tools to tweak the output from the Panasonic UB820 so that it does an even better job of tone mapping in conjunction with the Sony. Using the Lightspace software I’ve been able to create a 1D LUT for the projector that tone maps the UB820 to a BT2390 curve which is helping enormously with shadow detail AND getting HDR moments in films that actually pop.

I’ve attached a very quick and dirty camera photo showing the same frame in the basic output from the UB820 with its own tone mapping, and a second with the Lightspace BT2390 curve applied. You should be able to see that some detail that was not at all visible before is now actually visible.

I’ve got a lot more to do, but first impressions are very positive.
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post #2200 of 2202 Old 04-08-2019, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vollans View Post
OK, I’m mobile, and been able to get to my theatre room, hook up the Sony to the network, and see how it goes. First impressions are great. It’s early days, but I’ve been mainly playing with using the new tools to tweak the output from the Panasonic UB820 so that it does an even better job of tone mapping in conjunction with the Sony. Using the Lightspace software I’ve been able to create a 1D LUT for the projector that tone maps the UB820 to a BT2390 curve which is helping enormously with shadow detail AND getting HDR moments in films that actually pop.

I’ve attached a very quick and dirty camera photo showing the same frame in the basic output from the UB820 with its own tone mapping, and a second with the Lightspace BT2390 curve applied. You should be able to see that some detail that was not at all visible before is now actually visible.

I’ve got a lot more to do, but first impressions are very positive.
It's different for sure, but what's your reference? Very difficult to tell from the photo as ever, but it almost looks to lack both contrast and saturation. Should that background detail really be that prominent in the scene? Feels a little robbed of atmosphere.

What's the scene out of interest? I'm intrigued to know how my Lumagen dynamic tone mapping tone maps it through my JVC X7900 (not that it is any kind of reference either, I'm just interested).

Tone mapping is such a minefield...!
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post #2201 of 2202 Old 04-08-2019, 12:14 AM
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It’s in the first half of Wonder Woman, I didn’t make a note. I had to freeze it for my other half to go and check the barbie and thought I’d quickly check, and took a quick snap as it was the detail that I noticed, it didn’t look anything like as muddy in real life but that’s camera phones for you in a dark room. There’s a lot of smokey hazy scenes in that film. Over the whole film it really brought it to life. What was really noticeable was in the big “HDR scenes” you could see shadow detail and the HDR pop. That’s something that I’ve not really seen so far with just the Panny doing the hard lifting, or the Sony alone doing the hard lifting.

The 1D output for the Sony works, and with a bit of time I think I’ll be able to get something really good out of it.
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post #2202 of 2202 Old Today, 11:15 AM
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LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.2938 (16 April 2019) has been released.

Release Notes:

Corrected issue with Stabilisation patches with connected hardware generators.

Corrected rounding error with JVC 1D LUT export format.

Added Sub Black option for VideoScale.

Corrected CSV Grey Only Quick Profile recognition.

Fix issue with Minolta CA-410 probe integration.

Removed Osee and Bon Upload options, as manufacturers never completed their work.

Added ‘Stop’ and ‘Pause’ capability to Pre-roll.

Added ability to use ‘Stabilisation’ frames with Pre-roll.

Fix issue with adjusting Pre-roll duration preventing it from working.

Added ‘Edge’ Quick Profile – a work-in-progress.

Download Link: https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html
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