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post #2251 of 2283 Old 05-14-2019, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
3) do JVC colour autocal for that mode with same i1pro2 meter.
Do you think, that this step is really necessary?

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post #2252 of 2283 Old 05-15-2019, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
Do you think, that this step is really necessary?
I'm not sure is the answer. But there is clearly some quite strange interaction that I (and I'm not sure anyone else) fully understands if when you create a really tiny gamut with just the xy co-ordinates of a very small triangle that you also end up with gamut compression at the edges - clearly there isn't a lack of saturation to fulfil the tiny target colourspace so something else is happening here.

Did you get a chance to do an edge profile of the DCIP3 mode on your unit? I know you said you're busy so no worries if you can't.
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post #2253 of 2283 Old 05-15-2019, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I'm not sure is the answer. But there is clearly some quite strange interaction that I (and I'm not sure anyone else) fully understands if when you create a really tiny gamut with just the xy co-ordinates of a very small triangle that you also end up with gamut compression at the edges - clearly there isn't a lack of saturation to fulfil the tiny target colourspace so something else is happening here.
It would be good to know what really happens when you upload a custom profile. There are quite a few variables.
In the past I only uploaded a few profiles that represented the maximum gamut my units were able to reach, not smaller ones.

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Did you get a chance to do an edge profile of the DCIP3 mode on your unit? I know you said you're busy so no worries if you can't.
It's not that I'm extremely busy. But I cannot dig deeper into my NX9 as long as it is not decided if this unit has a future in my HT.
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Projection: JVC DLA-NX9
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post #2254 of 2283 Old 05-15-2019, 06:28 PM
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Noob question I hope someone can answer: What specifically is RGB separation? What kind of issues does it cause, and is it something that can be minimized or is it just something inherent to the television? I've googled around and haven't really found anything that explains it clearly. If someone has a link that explains or wouldn't mind expanding on it, it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2255 of 2283 Old 05-16-2019, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Noob question I hope someone can answer: What specifically is RGB separation? What kind of issues does it cause, and is it something that can be minimized or is it just something inherent to the television? I've googled around and haven't really found anything that explains it clearly. If someone has a link that explains or wouldn't mind expanding on it, it would be greatly appreciated.
Have you looked at the 'LightSpace Profiling Manual' on the website?
https://www.lightillusion.com/profil...rgb_separation
And scroll down a bit for a greater explanation.

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post #2256 of 2283 Old 05-16-2019, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Have you looked at the 'LightSpace Profiling Manual' on the website?
https://www.lightillusion.com/profil...rgb_separation
And scroll down a bit for a greater explanation.

Steve
I thought i looked pretty good through the manuals but somehow skimmed past this I guess. Thanks!
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post #2257 of 2283 Old 05-25-2019, 11:35 AM
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LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.2956 (23 May 2019) has been released.

Release Notes

Corrected issue with some CSV based Quick Profiles.

Added ''IsAlive'' command to Network Manager.

Added new DeviceContol LUT format for LG C7 Studio (Pro).

Download Link: https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html
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post #2258 of 2283 Old 05-25-2019, 12:35 PM
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Heads up! If you've done the May update to Windows 10 1903, you may need a license reset when installing this.

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post #2259 of 2283 Old 05-25-2019, 01:15 PM
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To make life easier, there is a new website Form for license reset requests.

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post #2260 of 2283 Old 06-08-2019, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Did you get a chance to do an edge profile of the DCIP3 mode on your unit? I know you said you're busy so no worries if you can't.
I (finally ) did two edge profiles on my NX9. The first is of the DCI mode. The second is with color profile turned off but filter engaged. I did both profiles with Colour Sub-Spaces set to DCI P3 D65 Gamma 2.4.
Attached Files
File Type: zip NX9 Edge.zip (20.5 KB, 10 views)
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post #2261 of 2283 Old 06-09-2019, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I (finally ) did two edge profiles on my NX9. The first is of the DCI mode. The second is with color profile turned off but filter engaged. I did both profiles with Colour Sub-Spaces set to DCI P3 D65 Gamma 2.4.
Thanks for this!

It looks like the DCI mode is pretty well behaved then, none of the large issues you see on the previous generation with the compression around the edge when using the custom P3 profile. I think I only spotted a tiny bit of compression right at the gamut edge (one or 2 points)

One thing though, I can't understand why you enabled sub colour space for the profile off mode with the filter enabled? If it behaves the same as previous X7900 in profile off filter on mode it should be linear all the way out to the input colour space edges, which would mean the native gamut might be wider than you showed in your results?

It would be interesting to do a full edge profile of profile off filter engaged to see the true limits of the native gamut.
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post #2262 of 2283 Old 06-09-2019, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Thanks for this!

It looks like the DCI mode is pretty well behaved then, none of the large issues you see on the previous generation with the compression around the edge when using the custom P3 profile. I think I only spotted a tiny bit of compression right at the gamut edge (one or 2 points)
Yes, that's what I kept saying and why I haven't felt the need to generate a large LUT (yet)
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post #2263 of 2283 Old 06-09-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
One thing though, I can't understand why you enabled sub colour space for the profile off mode with the filter enabled? If it behaves the same as previous X7900 in profile off filter on mode it should be linear all the way out to the input colour space edges, which would mean the native gamut might be wider than you showed in your results?

It would be interesting to do a full edge profile of profile off filter engaged to see the true limits of the native gamut.
I thought, it was now 'best practice' to use sub colour space if the target gamut is smaller than the source gamut, even though I didn't create a reduced JVC colour space.

But I also made two profiles without setting sub colour space.


Attached Files
File Type: zip NX9 Edge2.zip (20.4 KB, 7 views)
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post #2264 of 2283 Old 06-09-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKlammer View Post
I thought, it was now 'best practice' to use sub colour space if the target gamut is smaller than the source gamut, even though I didn't create a reduced JVC colour space.

But I also made two profiles without setting sub colour space.
There is something surprising about these which I don't fully understand. They appear to be identical despite one being done as a sub colour space.

I guess you have both the target space and the sub space both set to P3? If so, the net effect of that is no difference, you'll be profiling 100% of the input colourspace both cases.
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post #2265 of 2283 Old 06-09-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
There is something surprising about these which I don't fully understand. They appear to be identical despite one being done as a sub colour space.

I guess you have both the target space and the sub space both set to P3? If so, the net effect of that is no difference, you'll be profiling 100% of the input colourspace both cases.
Yes, I chose P3 in both cases, which in hindsight doesn't make much sense.
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post #2266 of 2283 Old 06-11-2019, 03:29 PM
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I ran a 3dlut for my 2018 lg oled the other day and found the gamma was extremely dark, lost a fair amount of shadow detail. If I want to change the gamma level do I just go to color space conversion and change the gamma there to what I want? And do I do it with both the grayscale file and the 3dlut file? I thought that's all I needed to do, but when I did that the image looks really washed out and colors de-saturated

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post #2267 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 01:25 AM
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I ran a 3dlut for my 2018 lg oled the other day and found the gamma was extremely dark, lost a fair amount of shadow detail. If I want to change the gamma level do I just go to color space conversion and change the gamma there to what I want? And do I do it with both the grayscale file and the 3dlut file? I thought that's all I needed to do, but when I did that the image looks really washed out and colors de-saturated
You'll need to define what you did further...
The gamma value in the source colour space defined the calibration gamma target.
What value did you use?

For home viewing anything with a brighter gamma than 2.2 would likely cause washed-out images.

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post #2268 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 01:31 AM
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For those using R.Masciola's HDR Test Patterns Disc, we have a new Beta that has an extended DIP Mode time - to a maximum of 90 seconds.

As Masciola's disc has each pattern duration set to 60 seconds the new 90 second DIP maximum of LightSpace will work with a suitable .csv patch set file that matches the RGB triplet values of each Masciola disc patch.
(To check the requirements for a .csv patch set file just export a file from LightSpace based on any patch sequence - a Grey only Quick Profile for example.)

For those that are interested in testing Masciola Disc profiling option with LightSpace, please contact Ted as normal for a Beta download link.

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post #2269 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 05:53 AM
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You'll need to define what you did further...

The gamma value in the source colour space defined the calibration gamma target.

What value did you use?



For home viewing anything with a brighter gamma than 2.2 would likely cause washed-out images.



Steve
In color space conversion took original source measurements for 46pt grayscale then changed gamma to 2.2 and hit create. then took the 3dlut file from the same session and did the same gamma 2.2 and created.

Using device control I reset 1d and 3dlut for bright day. And then uploaded the files. Not only does it appear washed, white point seems off, not as warm. Only thing I can think of is that the calibration didn't fully upload.

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post #2270 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Wjboshart View Post
In color space conversion took original source measurements for 46pt grayscale then changed gamma to 2.2 and hit create. then took the 3dlut file from the same session and did the same gamma 2.2 and created.

Using device control I reset 1d and 3dlut for bright day. And then uploaded the files. Not only does it appear washed, white point seems off, not as warm. Only thing I can think of is that the calibration didn't fully upload.

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Sorry, that doesn't make sense.
You change the gamma in the target colour space - so Rec709 for example.

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post #2271 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 08:30 AM
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Sorry, that doesn't make sense.

You change the gamma in the target colour space - so Rec709 for example.



Steve
Using convert color space option, select rec709 and change gamma to 2.2 and hit create new? Is that correct?

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post #2272 of 2283 Old 06-14-2019, 08:32 AM
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Ah - yes, that is correct.
I must have just been misreading your info.

As that will work correctly, something else must have gone wrong - as you say the colour temp was wrong.

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post #2273 of 2283 Old 07-11-2019, 12:22 PM
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LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.2966 (10 July 2019) has been released.

Release Notes (incremental changes)

Added support for new dataColor SpyderX tristimulus probe.

Added filtering for individual probe matching measurements for invalid XYZ values.

Corrected error with BMD Camera options.

Increased DIP mode to max 90 secs for use with R.Masciola’s HDR Test Patterns.

Corrected error with Export Colour List with Drift enabled.

Added 1511 to Discoverable probes list, as the txt was missing.

Added ‘Hint’ process to Convert Colour Space (XPT, PRO and HTP).

Download Link: https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html
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post #2274 of 2283 Old 07-11-2019, 12:42 PM
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The Hint process enables small profiles, such as Quick Profiles, to provide calibration accuracy that is closer to the accuracy usually only attained via large volumetric profiles.

Information on 'Hint' can be found within the website 'Advanced LightSpace Operation' user guide: https://www.lightillusion.com/advanc...pace.html#hint
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post #2275 of 2283 Old 07-11-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
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The Hint process enables small profiles, such as Quick Profiles, to provide calibration accuracy that is closer to the accuracy usually only attained via large volumetric profiles.

Information on 'Hint' can be found within the website 'Advanced LightSpace Operation' user guide: https://www.lightillusion.com/advanc...pace.html#hint
Thanks, this Hint process sounds like a great feature, looking forward to testing it.

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post #2276 of 2283 Old 07-11-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The Hint process enables small profiles, such as Quick Profiles, to provide calibration accuracy that is closer to the accuracy usually only attained via large volumetric profiles.

Information on 'Hint' can be found within the website 'Advanced LightSpace Operation' user guide: https://www.lightillusion.com/advanc...pace.html#hint
Thank you, Ted. It is nice to have you back. Looking forward to your posts.
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post #2277 of 2283 Old 07-12-2019, 09:12 AM
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How much of the underlying profile has to be similar in the hint process?

For example, one use-case for me would be that I would like to be able to measure the underlying panel behaviour of my JVC in great detail (maybe with a 21^3) and then re-use that "hint" to quickly generate calibrations for when I put my 3D glasses on, or for correcting for my slightly blue tinted eye glasses, etc. Those profiles would look quite different in terms of peak white and other things, but I imagine would be more or less the same underlying shape (though with some primary colour levels cut more or less than others). Ideally just running the 21pt RGBCMYK sequence for those
I'd imagine it >should< work (perhaps?). Thoughts? What have folk used the hint process for so far?
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post #2278 of 2283 Old 07-13-2019, 03:23 AM
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We have limited Hint to XPT, PRO, and HTP licenses as the process really needs a high-end probe to be effective, due to the need to have an accurate 'master/guide' profile.

After that, the secondary minimal profile (Quick Profile for example) is used to set the main parameters for the calibration - the peak RGBW values and the grey scale.

The two profile value sets do not need to be identical, as the two profiles are effectively 'normalised' before the Hint process is used.

The master/guide profile is then used to direct the interpolation of the 'missing' data during the LUT generation process.

This is v1 of the Hint process, and we have more plans for it...

One other process we have been playing with for situations where probes struggle with low-light accuracy is the merging of 2 LUTs generated from 2 different profiles.

For example, using a 21^3 for all data above, say, 10 nits.
And a Grey only profile for below 10 nits.

One of the issues with large profile data sets is the inaccuracy of the readings when the probe is struggling with low-light readings.
Obviously 'colour' readings have less brightness than Grey Scale readings, so cause more inaccuracy in the final calibration LUT.
Using Grey Only data for the low-light range meas such 'read' errors are not included in the LUT generation.
But at higher brightness levels the full volumetric profile data is needs to accurately map the volumetric calibration.

To do such LUT merging the LUT image can be used, via a graphics program such as Photoshop.

https://www.lightillusion.com/lut_image.html

Basically you key through the low-luma range from the Grey Only generated LUT into the 21^3 generated LUT...

From this you can see how we can automated such capabilities within LightSpace/ColourSpace.

Steve
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post #2279 of 2283 Old 07-13-2019, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
We have limited Hint to XPT, PRO, and HTP licenses as the process really needs a high-end probe to be effective, due to the need to have an accurate 'master/guide' profile.
Thanks Steve.
It's very interesting, will have a play with it soon.
Depending on how robust the normalisation process is, I wonder if it would be reasonable to make a very high quality hint profile with the diffuser down on the Discus, facing the lens with the sensor nicely saturated towards the top of its dynamic range.

Also, does this mean you could effectively avoid the meter profiling step? I mean, could you generate the large hint profile without having corrected the meter, and then apply the meter correction just by measuring RGBW in the hint process?
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post #2280 of 2283 Old 07-13-2019, 06:03 AM
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No, Hint is not performing probe matching, as the profiles are normalised.
That means the profile that Hint is being used on will st the primary RGB values.
The master/guide profile fills in the missing Volumetric info only.

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