LightSpace 3D LUT Home Cinema Calibration Software - Page 82 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2431 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 05:46 PM
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For the i1pro Ted did say it should be about 188mm from the screen. I was thinking about it being that far from the screen and wondered if the low light intensity down at the 20% greyscale pattern would suffer compared to if it was in direct contact? That's assuming the meter is light protected from stray light when it's 188mm away.

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post #2432 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:13 PM
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Okay I see it, it's just the picture of the tube on a meter. Is the tube end in contact with the panel.
Non-contact.

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Originally Posted by WTS View Post
I have another question, given the two software programs, Calman4 and LS, would they/should they return the same readings given the use of the exact same meter and the same panel/source video say for the 50% grey pattern, if used at the same time.
CalMAN 4 use very old SDK versions or custom code to operate most of the meters. (for example its using custom code for Klein, i1DisplayPRO, Discus)

LightSpace use only official SDK to operate all meters its supporting, so its including the latest SDK versions.

If there difference per each software, I haven't checked. I was using CalMAN 4 long time ago when its been released.

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post #2433 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:17 PM
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What does SDK stand for? Okay so in theory both programs would/should produce the same numbers then.

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post #2434 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:21 PM
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What does SDK stand for? Okay so in theory both programs would/should produce the same numbers then.
SDK (Software Developers Kit) are the required files required to operate an instrument a software.

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post #2435 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WTS View Post
For the i1pro Ted did say it should be about 188mm from the screen. I was thinking about it being that far from the screen and wondered if the low light intensity down at the 20% greyscale pattern would suffer compared to if it was in direct contact? That's assuming the meter is light protected from stray light when it's 188mm away.
You can't trust i1PRO to measure 20% Gray for a projector or a display.

Then you have one meter only, you don't have to match any FOV, just to be sure that you will measure just a number of pixels. In contact mode the FOV is ultra small, and the meter is heavy which can apply mechanical pressure to panel, which can affect the readings.

Please explain what you want to measure, when you talk for screen you mean projector screen? while you talk for display a TV/Monitor?

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post #2436 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:39 PM
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Okay I see it, damn, from 6' it's only a 10" diameter for the i1pro. How the hell can you aim it accurately from 6' to make sure that the FOV 10" diameter is inside the pattern on the screen without some kind of laser pointer or something. From 1' no problem, ha-ha.
Are you measuring a projector or a display?

When you have one meter, you don't need to match FOV to a specific area, this required when you have 2 meters and the panel may have uniformity issues.

If you have 2 meters, the some chart with FOV's per meter you can follow:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56340870

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56166388

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post #2437 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:44 PM
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I do have both, projector and 60" flat screen but I'm more concerned about doing the flat panel which is a Sony Bravia.

Thanks I'll read the posts in the links.

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post #2438 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 06:51 PM
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I do have both, projector and 60" flat screen but I'm more concerned about doing the flat panel which is a Sony Bravia.
For your TV, using the distances of 25mm or 50 mm FOV it will be fine. But i1PRO can't calibrate your grayscale, you will have issues to your low-end and to your gamma targets as it will not able to measure properly your native black level.

For the projector, the problem it will be larger, only for measuring 100% White/Red/Green/Blue measurements required for the meter profiling of a colorimeter... your i1PRO1 can be used, anything else, like full grayscale it will be a disaster.

As I told you to other thread before days, it will not work the instrument as a stand-alone meter for a full calibration for the devices you have to calibrate, you will need a colorimeter also.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTS View Post
Okay I see it, damn, from 6' it's only a 10" diameter for the i1pro. How the hell can you aim it accurately from 6' to make sure that the FOV 10" diameter is inside the pattern on the screen without some kind of laser pointer or something. From 1' no problem, ha-ha.
You can start with a small window pattern and aim the meter to get the maximum reading, then enlarge the window and check that the reading doesn’t change.
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post #2440 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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. I just have a hard time believing
[...]
I've designed a number of instruments in my life and rarely have I seen
[...]
Prove me wrong or explain to me how this is possible.
Wow. Charming (!).

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post #2441 of 2465 Old 11-02-2019, 08:09 PM
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For your TV, using the distances of 25mm or 50 mm FOV it will be fine. But i1PRO can't calibrate your grayscale, you will have issues to your low-end and to your gamma targets as it will not able to measure properly your native black level.

For the projector, the problem it will be larger, only for measuring 100% White/Red/Green/Blue measurements required for the meter profiling of a colorimeter... your i1PRO1 can be used, anything else, like full grayscale it will be a disaster.

As I told you to other thread before days, it will not work the instrument as a stand-alone meter for a full calibration for the devices you have to calibrate, you will need a colorimeter also.
I will say that using the i1pro down in the low end did take some tweaking back and forth to get the blacks correct by eye. But they did look good when I was done with both the 60" and my VW95 projector.

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post #2442 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 02:36 AM
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Actually my main concerns would be doing just the greyscales, as the newer Sony TVs have pretty good colour setup right of the box from what I've seen and read. I think you're trying to talk me into buying a i1display pro to go with my i1pro, ha-ha. I just have a hard time believing that calibrating a colourimeter like the i1display pro only at one point - 100%(in the profiling) white is going to make the low end at 20% greyscale accurate as well. If that's the case they must have some pretty damn good/accurate/linear light sensors in them to linearize with only one calibration point. I've designed a number of instruments in my life and rarely have I seen anything require only a one point calibration to be accurate across it's whole range. Only one comes to mind that would be a load cell. Prove me wrong or explain to me how this is possible.
It happens the 4-color matrix method to be used by Minolta/Colorimetry Research/Klein Instruments, all these are professional colorimeter companies with models from 6K$ - 30K$, its industry standard that method of FCMM, its not something experimental, its been used for +20 years already as a way to correct a colorimeter.

Its approved method by NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) for that reason the whole industry is using it.

LightSpace came up to improve that method before 2 months, you can have better results using Volumetric Probe method, when you will use a reference spectro, but this is not undo or make not applicable the 4-color matrix method the industry is using as default method.

So Volumetric Probe method will improve the people who perform volumetric calibrations, measure 5000-1000 different color points, with a 'corrected' colorimeter.

When you will perform just a grayscale calibration, there no such problems using 4-color matrix method.

Do you see the table of that post from FSI?

From the left side which has red stroke is the FCMM measurements, CR-100 is the colorimeter and CR-250 is the spectro.



The numbers I have highlight with blue 10% background fill are all grayscale readings, as you can see to the deviations of xy, with grayscale there no such high improvements.

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I will say that using the i1pro down in the low end did take some tweaking back and forth to get the blacks correct by eye. But they did look good when I was done with both the 60" and my VW95 projector.
'Eye' calibration and such magician methods (are you calculating Luminance levels to track the gamma with your eyes also?) goes the conversation to another level.

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post #2443 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 04:25 AM
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I think you're trying to talk me into buying a i1display pro to go with my i1pro, ha-ha. I just have a hard time believing that calibrating a colourimeter like the i1display pro only at one point - 100%(in the profiling) white is going to make the low end at 20% greyscale accurate as well. If that's the case they must have some pretty damn good/accurate/linear light sensors in them to linearize with only one calibration point. I've designed a number of instruments in my life and rarely have I seen anything require only a one point calibration to be accurate across it's whole range. Only one comes to mind that would be a load cell. Prove me wrong or explain to me how this is possible.
Here is the patent of how i1Display PRO can be calibrated during manufacturing (SPMref means reference 1nm spectro):

''The spectral sensitivities of the channels of the CMD are formed by the ratio, at each wavelength, of the power as measured with the SPMref to the output of the CMD at the same wavelength. This could be accomplished, for example, by measuring the output of a scanning monochrometer with both the SPMref and the CMD. Another embodiment is schematically shown in FIG. 2. By means of an adjustable light source Q, which can for example be formed by an integrating sphere equipped with corresponding illuminants and as applicable color filters, light of different colors (different spectral bands) is generated sequentially and gauged by both the color measuring device CMD to be calibrated and spectrally by a high-precision reference spectrophotometer SPMref.''

I have highlighted with hold letters the 2 available calibration methods which can be performed, 1) using monochromator or 2) using integrating sphere.

So X-Rite is measuring and characterize the spectral sensitivity curves of the sensors and upload them to the default factory calibration mode of the meter which emulates a general near CMF response.
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post #2444 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 05:30 AM
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Are you trying to be a smarta$$?
No, but thanks for the insult, and your aggressive Private Message along the same lines. I am actually pointing out that you are coming across - whether you mean to or not - as incredibly rude. Just a polite "heads up" on that point for you, in case it wasn't intentional. HTH.
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post #2445 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 07:39 AM
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No, but thanks for the insult, and your aggressive Private Message along the same lines. I am actually pointing out that you are coming across - whether you mean to or not - as incredibly rude. Just a polite "heads up" on that point for you, in case it wasn't intentional. HTH.
MrT, yeah you were pretty quick to jump all over me with your comment, but thanks for the heads up! As for the PM I only asked if you wanted to add something constructive then feel free too, no aggression there, but maybe you're a sensitive guy, my apologies to you.

My apologies to everyone else on this thread. I've deleted some of my wayward posts as I realized I was derailing this thread as it's about the LS software and not the hardware and my questions were not on the subject matter of the thread. We'll just leave the meters part as the black boxes they are - light in 1's&0's out. I'll find another thread or forum to research that end of it.

Ted, I really appreciate all your input into my constant barrage of questions. I'll check out the new links you gave too, I see one is for the i1pro patent, nice, thanks.
Cheers,

Walter

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post #2446 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 08:15 AM
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Ted, I really appreciate all your input into my constant barrage of questions. I'll check out the new links you gave too, I see one is for the i1pro patent, nice, thanks.
The PDF was for the calibration procedure of the meter durining manufacturing, for the factory calibration of i1Display PRO (not for i1PRO)

Here is the patent for i1Display PRO, as an instrument.

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post #2447 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 10:44 AM
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The PDF was for the calibration procedure of the meter durining manufacturing, for the factory calibration of i1Display PRO (not for i1PRO)

Here is the patent for i1Display PRO, as an instrument.
Yes I see that now, thanks, no pdf for the i1pro?

Walter
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post #2448 of 2465 Old 11-03-2019, 11:05 AM
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no pdf for the i1pro?
I haven't searched.

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Direct selection of Radiance Pro CMS memory

Hi @All LightSpace users who also use Lumagen Radiance Pro

Light Illusion has implemented a long-cherished wish of mine and many others for the Radiance Pro.
In LightSpace you can now directly select and switch the CMS memory (CMS0 - CMS7) of Radiance.

I just tested the beta version and it works fine, so the function can be integrated into the next release.
The selection of the CMS memory in LightSpace is done in the option menu for Radiance Pro:



I think this new feature is helpful because you don't have to look for the Radiance Pro remote control anymore just to switch the CMS memory.

Light Illusion supports a lot of devices with LightSpace and has countless interfaces to maintain. Therefore not every wish can be fulfilled immediately.
Nevertheless, Steve Shaw and his team still have an open ear for ideas and suggestions from the circle of users. This is not the case everywhere and it makes working with Light Illusion so enjoyable and productive.
Peter

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post #2450 of 2465 Old 11-05-2019, 07:27 AM
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Hi @All LightSpace users who also use Lumagen Radiance Pro

Light Illusion has implemented a long-cherished wish of mine and many others for the Radiance Pro.
In LightSpace you can now directly select and switch the CMS memory (CMS0 - CMS7) of Radiance.

I just tested the beta version and it works fine, so the function can be integrated into the next release.
The selection of the CMS memory in LightSpace is done in the option menu for Radiance Pro:



I think this new feature is helpful because you don't have to look for the Radiance Pro remote control anymore just to switch the CMS memory.

Light Illusion supports a lot of devices with LightSpace and has countless interfaces to maintain. Therefore not every wish can be fulfilled immediately.
Nevertheless, Steve Shaw and his team still have an open ear for ideas and suggestions from the circle of users. This is not the case everywhere and it makes working with Light Illusion so enjoyable and productive.
Peter
Peter, out of curiosity, is this only just for the Pro, or does it work for the other Radiance models as well?

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post #2451 of 2465 Old 11-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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Peter, out of curiosity, is this only just for the Pro, or does it work for the other Radiance models as well?
Hi,
the "Radiance Options" menu is only available for Radiance Pro.
Peter

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post #2452 of 2465 Old 11-05-2019, 11:26 AM
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Hi,
the "Radiance Options" menu is only available for Radiance Pro.
Peter
Thanks, Peter. That's rather what I expected.

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post #2453 of 2465 Old 11-06-2019, 09:12 AM
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LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.3000 (04 November 2019) has been released.

Release Notes


Made Anisometric and Sequential patches have the same power value.

Added CMS Slot selector for Lumagen Pro.

Re-fixed infinite loop bug in Hint process when too small profile is used.

Download Link:
https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
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post #2454 of 2465 Old 11-08-2019, 03:32 AM
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LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.3001 (08 November 2019) has been released.

Release Notes


Increased max LUM range in Probe Matching.

Download Link:
https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html
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post #2455 of 2465 Old 11-08-2019, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
LightSpace CMS 10.0.0.3001 (08 November 2019) has been released.

Release Notes


Increased max LUM range in Probe Matching.

Download Link:
https://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html
Awesome. Now I can match my Jeti spectro readings from screen to i1d3 OEM rev B circa 2000 nit readings from lens with diffuser in place for super-fast yet high quality profiling on my projector. Very nice.
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post #2456 of 2465 Old 11-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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We aim to please!

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post #2457 of 2465 Old 11-18-2019, 01:50 PM
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Ted or Steve or anyone that knows can confirm if in the latest version we still need to use "Pass Black" after generating the 3dlut with madVR?

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post #2458 of 2465 Old 11-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Ted or Steve or anyone that knows can confirm if in the latest version we still need to use "Pass Black" after generating the 3dlut with madVR?
Hi, its required: https://www.lightillusion.com/madvr_manual.html

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post #2459 of 2465 Old 11-18-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
thank you Ted , it says that it is up to the user preference to chose the videoscale setting , any recommended setting for most accuracy or what each one do.

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post #2460 of 2465 Old 11-18-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
thank you Ted , it says that it is up to the user preference to chose the videoscale setting , any recommended setting for most accuracy or what each one do.
''madVR uses a legal video level workflow for both video and data ranges, so all LUTs loaded into madVR will need to have one of the VideoScale functions applied regardless of TV Legal or Data ranges being used. As there are five VideoScale options, the selection must be a user selectable one''

Use Pass Black, so it will have pass as UNITY the levels 0-16, clip black will clip 0-16 to 16.
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