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post #5071 of 5179 Old 03-13-2019, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
If you allow me the suggestion, on this specific error:
Wouldn't the following description be more informative to the end user?
-E parameter cannot be used with madVR (madTPG)
Not if you want some hint as to how to fix the problem, no.

(And the code that generates the error message doesn't actually know how it was invoked, so can't assume that it was triggered by a command line -E flag vs. something else.)
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post #5072 of 5179 Old 03-14-2019, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
The CIE chart without 3DLUT applied:
Spoiler!



The CIE chart with 3DLUT applied:
Spoiler!
The profile information never has the 3D LUT applied, so this is the gamut of your display. If you want to check the 3D LUT, you have to use the verification tab.
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post #5073 of 5179 Old 03-22-2019, 01:14 AM
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from an earlier post in the madvr hdr thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
This is certainly OT for this thread, but

It seems it's the 64-bit madHcNet DLL that is causing problems. Use the 32-bit version of ArgyllCMS, which will use the 32-bit madHcNet DLL instead (which doesn't seem to be affected).
I experienced the same crash in the 32bit madHcNet today when using the 32bit argyllcms and latest displaycal (3.7.2). I can't find any other logging or debug info so not sure what else I can report here.
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post #5074 of 5179 Old 03-22-2019, 09:51 AM
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After a couple of days of tinkering and learning this new process I'm really pleased. I was a big skeptic of improving colours - I don't think that's very valuable. I'm not a believer that the mood of a film is going to be impacted by the fact that a red isn't the same as some absoulte reference red. However, the low light improvements are simply astonishing on my LG C6. I didn't notice before, but because I can toggle the 3D lut with MadVR how cast with purple my dark scenes were and how muddy they were. Now they really pop well and are truly black. The compression noise I experienced has also dramatically been reduced.



What prevented me from ever toying with calibration was just the time it took. But a 3D lut was as close to JVC's autocalibration I could get, so I thought I'd give it a go and i'm so pleased I did.



I am, however, a little confused as to why I've gotten such good resulsts and would like to learn more.



When I first ran the process I attempted to calibrate gamma, this resulted in odd noise/artifacts in near black pixels. The next calibration I just did colour and used gamma as measured. The odd thing I'm finding is that my gamma actually improved (see attached).


From the calibration report (attached). I can see my grayscale improved - is that the reason the gamma tracks better?


My meter is a X-Rite i1Display Pro. I understand that no meter, even the highest available ones are good coping with OLED's absoulte black levels. Does that mean you shouldn't bother to calibrate gamma?
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post #5075 of 5179 Old 03-22-2019, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
From the calibration report (attached). I can see my grayscale improved - is that the reason the gamma tracks better?
The grayscale tracks better because the gamma is on target (2.4), but also because it's now neutral with the 3D LUT. The "NO LUT" report shows a slight green cast (main reason the grayscale not tracking well there) and slightly too low gamma in the midtone range.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
My meter is a X-Rite i1Display Pro. I understand that no meter, even the highest available ones are good coping with OLED's absoulte black levels. Does that mean you shouldn't bother to calibrate gamma?
Not sure what you mean. Are you talking about OLED controls?

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post #5076 of 5179 Old 03-23-2019, 02:35 AM
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What I mean is because the black performance of OLED's is so low, most consumer or even professional meters aren't capable of measuring that low. So there's no point in calibrating gamma because you get odd artifacts at near black?


I ran a grayscale ramp and saw exactly what you meant. The 3D lut completely fixed it.



Now that I've ran a rec 709 LUT do you know if I can use the same LUT in MadVR's calibration field for Rec2020 content also? Or do I need to run a new calibration? When I finished my Rec709 I did set the colours to wide on the TV and it reported something like 97% of DCI-P3. MadVR does mention that you don't need to have multiple LUTS but I'm confused as to how you can calibrate Rec2020 with a 709 LUT.



I'd like to correct the grayscale for my HDR tonemapping in MadVR, but I do passthrough HDR meta data to my OLED. I know this isn't the same as the LUT used for tone mapping - it's rather on the calibration controls tab.



I also use a JVC x9000 and would like to use the LUT on Rec2020 output in SDR.


I'm planning on putting together a guide for anyone calibrating their 2016 series OLED's in the future so all this will be very useful


Thanks,
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post #5077 of 5179 Old 03-23-2019, 02:43 AM
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I can't seem to edit my posts but in reading through the thread last night you mentioned before and I don't want to annoying you by asking questions you've already answered.



Quote:
I have pointed this out previously, but I'll point it out again because it seems to have fallen on deaf ears: The only way to get the correct output with the madVR pixel shader math in combination with a SDR 3D LUT is that this SDR 3D LUT has to be created with Rec. 709 gamma 2.2 relative, 100% output offset. Then, and only then, will the results be comparable to the "HDR to SDR" 3D LUT. This should be no surprise, because madVR's pixel shader converts HDR to SDR gamma 2.2. If the SDR 3D LUT does not expect that as the input, you'll get wrong results. Period.



So I answered my own question: I need to create another 3D LUT with Gamma 2.2, but do I need to do Rec 2020 colours for my projector which will be using SDR? Or will MadVR compute the Rec2020 colours from the 709 LUT? What about the TV which will be using HDR passthrough?
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post #5078 of 5179 Old 03-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
What I mean is because the black performance of OLED's is so low, most consumer or even professional meters aren't capable of measuring that low. So there's no point in calibrating gamma because you get odd artifacts at near black?
I still don't understand what you are asking. The 3D LUT does calibrate gamma.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
So I answered my own question: I need to create another 3D LUT with Gamma 2.2, but do I need to do Rec 2020 colours for my projector which will be using SDR?
If you use a different picture mode, you need to profile that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
Or will MadVR compute the Rec2020 colours from the 709 LUT?
You can use the Rec. 709 LUT for any input colorspace, but madVR will restrict it to Rec. 709 obviously.

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post #5079 of 5179 Old 03-24-2019, 08:04 PM
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Hi Guys,

Apologies in advance if this has already been covered but I would like to create 3D luts for my madVR + HTPC setup. I have a JVC 640 which I think is capable of doing 100% Rec 709 and DCI-P3 and also I believe 75% of BT2020 if I am not mistaken.

Mainly my movies are 4K HDR (BT2020) which I use madVR to tone map and the remaining is 1080p (REC709) which I use madVR to upscale to 4K resolution.

I did the JVC autocal yesterday, I am on 220 hrs on my first bulb. I am wondering will I see an improvement in the colour reproduction if I was to create 3D LUT's?

Also do I need to create a 3D LUT for each colour space? (ie. Rec709, DCI-P3 and BT2020)?

I have never created a 3D LUT so would appreciate if you guys could please point me into the right direction, I appreciate this is the dedicated thread for this but rather than going through all the 170 pages would appreciate if you could please point me in the direction of how to create these LUT profiles.

Oh almost forgot to mention I have a Spyder 5 Pro is this any good? or will it not work with this light meter?

Is it still the first post on this thread or is there another up to date guide that I should follow

Thank you all in advance and look forward in hearing from you all
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post #5080 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
So I answered my own question: I need to create another 3D LUT with Gamma 2.2, but do I need to do Rec 2020 colours for my projector which will be using SDR?
Use you TV/projector biggest native gamut: if it's DCI-P3 then that and create 2 3dluts (you have to measure both) with gamma 2.2 (for HDR2sdr pixel shader and SDR content during the day) and with gamma 2.4 (for SDR content during the night).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dushyant Patel91 View Post
Or will MadVR compute the Rec2020 colours from the 709 LUT? What about the TV which will be using HDR passthrough?
As fhoech said, MadVR could do that but you'd loose colors this way, so just go with the above.

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post #5081 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 04:41 AM
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Deleted (double post due to db error).

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post #5082 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 02:41 PM
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Guys, I would really appreciate if you could help me out with this.. I downloaded and installed ArgyIICMS 32bit and Display Cal and I am stuck on DisplayCal finding my Spyder 5 as the instrument?

I have followed this tutorial and the Spyder 5 is showing in my Device Manager but not under ArgyIICMS but under Universal USB. Can someone please advise why I am not able to detect my SPyder 5 in DisplayCAL?

Also I believe my JVC RS640 is 98% DCI-P3 so thats the best colour gamut to choose. Can you please advise me what I need to select in the Display CAL (which madVR) as there is one for HDR as well?

Sorry if this is a silly question but I am assuming that I point the SPyder 5 to the screen rather than the projector? OR am I supposed to point it towards the light beam from the projector ? If the screen then how far is it supposed to be from the screen please?

Thank you for all your help.. Always appreciated.
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post #5083 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
I have followed this tutorial and the Spyder 5 is showing in my Device Manager but not under ArgyIICMS but under Universal USB
Menu "Tools" -> "Instrument" -> "Install ArgyllCMS instrument drivers".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Also I believe my JVC RS640 is 98% DCI-P3 so thats the best colour gamut to choose. Can you please advise me what I need to select in the Display CAL (which madVR) as there is one for HDR as well?
What type of 3D LUT do you want to create? For SDR viewing or HDR? Choose accordingly.

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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Sorry if this is a silly question but I am assuming that I point the SPyder 5 to the screen rather than the projector?
Correct, you want to profile the screen as much as the light bouncing off of it.

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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
If the screen then how far is it supposed to be from the screen please?
Around 30 cm (1 ft).
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Last edited by fhoech; 03-25-2019 at 03:13 PM.
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post #5084 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Menu "Tools" -> "Instrument" -> "Install ArgyllCMS instrument drivers".





What type of 3D LUT do you want to create? For SDR viewing or HDR? Choose accordingly.





Correct, you want to profile the screen as much as the light bouncing off of it.





Around 30 cm (around 1 ft).
Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate it. I am new to all this and never created a 3D LUT before.

I want to create the LUT files so that I can use them in madVR. Mainly I view 4K HDR to SDR via tone mapping with madVR so which profile or settings do I need to choose please? Would appreciate if you could please advise..

Also how do I select dci p3 on projector or is that an option I select in madvr? Whilst using BT2020 colour profile in the projector.

I installed the ARGYIICMS drivers but still couldn't detect it.. I will retry and try to get it to work.. But once up and running I need to know how many profiles do I need to create? Do I do all 3 or do I just do Rec709 and dci p3?

90% hdr to SDR 4k 10 bit movies and the other 10% is 1080p upscaled to 4K with madvr but its SDR..thank you for helping me out.

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post #5085 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 04:05 PM
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Not sure where I'm going wrong.. Would appreciate some advice please.. Thank you in advance.. These are all my settings not sure if correct?

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post #5086 of 5179 Old 03-25-2019, 07:03 PM
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I'm having an issue in that the Spyder 5 correction file doesn't seem to exist.. No sure how to create one or if I need it?

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post #5087 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 04:09 AM
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Good morning all.

Last night I spend a couple of hours trying to figure out how this all works. I installed everything and did everything as mentioned in the first post. The only thing I couldn't seem to create or find was the "correction" file for my Spyder 5 under the "Display & Instrument" tab. I left it as Auto (None) .. Is this a necessary step and if so can you guys please advise me how I can create or where I can find the "Correction" file for my Spyder 5 please?

I watch mainly 4K HDR movies by using the pixel shader method in madVR so I did a calibration with Display Cal selecting "Video 3D LUT for madVR HDR" and I selected 175 test patterns just to test it out. It created a file and when I pressed install it it put it into the madVR (HDR tab) selecting it as use a 3D Lut and put it into the BT2020 section (nut was showing as DCI P3 and nits at 200) . Is this correct? If so I am now no longer doing HDR via pixel shading.. IS that correct?

Also under the Calinration tab in madVR do I still leave it as this display is calibrated as BT2020 Gamma 2.2 or do I need to also change that to DCI-P3

In doing so madvr no longer has the ability to use dynamic nits or tone mapping like it does in the latest test builds. I need some advise in that if this is the correct way of doing thing please and would appreciate your help. Thank you in advance.
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post #5088 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 04:36 AM
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If you want to use the madVR HDR to SDR pixel shader, you need to create a SDR 3D LUT.
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post #5089 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
If you want to use the madVR HDR to SDR pixel shader, you need to create a SDR 3D LUT.
Thank you for your reply.. So I only create the SDR profile with Display Cal not the BT2020?

Do I then input that in the "Calibration" section of madVR "Calibrate this display using external 3D lut" and put it under the BT709 tab? or do I put it into the BT2020 tab?

Also under the HDR tab in madVR do I still select use pixel shader HDR to SDR or do I selec the 3D lut in that section too?

Thank you and sorry for so many questions.. Thanks again in advance..
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post #5090 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 05:45 AM
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Select the "3D LUT for madVR, Rec. 709" preset in DisplayCAL. On the 3D LUT tab, change source colorspace to DCI-P3 (because this is closest to your projector gamut, so you won't limit the gamut too much).
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post #5091 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Select the "3D LUT for madVR, Rec. 709" preset in DisplayCAL. On the 3D LUT tab, change source colorspace to DCI-P3 (because this is closest to your projector gamut, so you won't limit the gamut too much).
Thank you so much. What I would like to know is do I put the file into madvr via the calibration tab or in the hdr tab or both? That's the confusing part which I don't understand. Because if I choose 3d lut in the hdr tab the I can't do hdr to SDR via pixel shades.

I am guessing I only use the calibration file in the "calibration" tab of madvr and not the hdr tab? Is that correct please? Do I still select hdr to SDR via pixel shades in madvr hdr tab? Thank you.

Also how many patches shall I do when selecting the calibration? Is 172 ok or shall I do 452 which take approx 40 mins?

Also I don't seem to have a correction file for the display cal? Do I leave that on auto (none)? Thank you.

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post #5092 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Thank you so much. What I would like to know is do I put the file into madvr via the calibration tab or in the hdr tab or both?
Calibration tab, but don't do it manually, simply install the 3D LUT after it has been created, it'll automatically be set in the correct slot.

Quote:
Also how many patches shall I do when selecting the calibration? Is 172 ok or shall I do 452 which take approx 40 mins?
That's up to you and how much patience you have. The Spyders are not the fastest devices.

Quote:
I don't seem to have a correction file
Then leave correction at "Auto (None)".
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post #5093 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Calibration tab, but don't do it manually, simply install the 3D LUT after it has been created, it'll automatically be set in the correct slot.





That's up to you and how much patience you have. The Spyders are not the fastest devices.





Then leave correction at "Auto (None)".
Thank you I will definitely try this again now.. Thanks

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post #5094 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Select the "3D LUT for madVR, Rec. 709" preset in DisplayCAL. On the 3D LUT tab, change source colorspace to DCI-P3 (because this is closest to your projector gamut, so you won't limit the gamut too much).
Sorry to be a pain, In Display Cal there are 2 DCI-P3 options under the 3D Lut tab. Do I choose the one that says DCI-P3/SMPTE-431-2 or DCI-P3/SMPTE-431-2 D65? I am guessing the one with D65 but I may be wrong?

Also do I select tone curve as Gamma 2.2 or do I select a custom Gamma? If custom then what do I select? thank you.

Input and output encoding says TV RGB 16-235 , however I use Full RGB on my HTPC and in madVR I select 0-255 . Is there an option in DisplayCal to change this to 0-255 or do I leave it as 16-235?

Thank you and would appreciate if you could please answer these last few questions before I re attempt to carry out a measure.

Thanks
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post #5095 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 07:25 AM
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Ah, yes, DCI-P3 D65.

Tone curve can be set to 2.2 if you want.

16-235 is always correct for madVR 3D LUTs.
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post #5096 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Ah, yes, DCI-P3 D65.

Tone curve can be set to 2.2 if you want.

16-235 is always correct for madVR 3D LUTs.
Thank you so much for all your help I will try this out and report back. I am guessing that I don't need to have a specific version of madVR to do this? I am currently using the latest test build , not sure if I need to have an official build or does that not really matter? thanks
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post #5097 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 07:50 AM
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Shouldn't matter.
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post #5098 of 5179 Old 03-26-2019, 08:13 AM
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Shouldn't matter.
Thank you

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post #5099 of 5179 Old 03-27-2019, 04:43 AM
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@fhoech last night I followed the guide and created a 3D LUT for my JVC projector for madVR . I chose the 452 pattern and the whole process to approx 1 hour. I then clicked install the 3D Lut which it placed it into madVR for me.

Upon going back and fourth with the calibration setting in madVR I realise that the 3D Lut I created for DCI-P3 and the BT2020 option in madVR are very similar. The DCI-P3 is ever so slightly a little more darker overall picture (not sure why) but the skin colours and colours in general are very similar of the BT2020 which is in madVR options under calibration.

I then changed the calibration option in madVR to DCI-P3 (the option under calibration which is already included in madVR) and the colours are much more vibrant. I am not sure if this is the correct setting or if the BT2020 or the 3D LUT I created. I would appreciate if you could please advise me on what you think of this and if you could please have a look at my settings to see if I have missed anything or check to see if it is all correct please.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your reply
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post #5100 of 5179 Old 03-27-2019, 01:34 PM
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If you want to use the pixel shader without 3D LUT, you likely have to set "this display is already calibrated to BT. 2020" in madVR but make sure this matches the setting of your projector (should already match though, because BT.2020 is what the projector should expect as container format for HDR).

Btw, for verification, the tone curve (gamma) needs to match the 3D LUT tone curve (2.2 in your case)
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