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post #5281 of 5311 Old 12-19-2019, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
But you can, when you choose 3DLUT, set to send HDR metadata of your choice, but it has no effect. It's a bug not a feature no ?!
Sorry, you're right, I didn't remember that feature since I never used it (it was introduced later in this form).
I don't know then, ask madshi in the beta thread, maybe others can help as well.
But one thing is for sure: this way you can only get static tonemapping. madvr's pixelshader can do dynamic TM, hence the result will be superior.

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post #5282 of 5311 Old 12-20-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Sorry, you're right, I didn't remember that feature since I never used it (it was introduced later in this form).
I don't know then, ask madshi in the beta thread, maybe others can help as well.
But one thing is for sure: this way you can only get static tonemapping. madvr's pixelshader can do dynamic TM, hence the result will be superior.
No need to apologize don't worry

Well I'll try to compare HDR 3DLUT or dynamic tone mapping, but I'm quite sure I'll prefer to have natural color.
My current TV have some crazy colors on HDR mode, even if I use "movie" profile, which should have the more natural colors.

I wonder if dynamic tone mapping could be use with a HDR 3DLUT after to get best of both world. But I guess madshi is busy on ENVY for now.
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post #5283 of 5311 Old 12-21-2019, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by petoulachi View Post
My current TV have some crazy colors on HDR mode
...
I wonder if dynamic tone mapping could be use with a HDR 3DLUT after to get best of both world. But I guess madshi is busy on ENVY for now.
Which TV is that?
As far as I know it's not possible to have the 2 at the same time with HDR ouput. Maybe @fhoech can explain it why.

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post #5284 of 5311 Old 12-21-2019, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Which TV is that?
As far as I know it's not possible to have the 2 at the same time with HDR ouput. Maybe @fhoech can explain it why.
Philips OLED854. It's not particulary worse than competitor for color calibration though, just the HDR mode that is not, I guess, completly mastered by manufacters.
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post #5285 of 5311 Old 12-24-2019, 05:20 AM
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When calibrating in SDR-DCI-P3, with the latest version of Dispalycal, I noticed that once inserted in Madvr the calibration has an all yellow and green picture, this does not happen with BT.709 and BT.2020, the problem had been resolved now has appeared again.
Merry Christmas to all
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post #5286 of 5311 Old 12-25-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stefanelli73 View Post
When calibrating in SDR-DCI-P3, with the latest version of Dispalycal, I noticed that once inserted in Madvr the calibration has an all yellow and green picture, this does not happen with BT.709 and BT.2020, the problem had been resolved now has appeared again.
Merry Christmas to all
This has been fixed in madVR 0.92.15, see https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

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post #5287 of 5311 Old 12-26-2019, 08:16 AM
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This has been fixed in madVR 0.92.15, see https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228
thanks.
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post #5288 of 5311 Old 12-29-2019, 12:11 AM
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Hi every one,

Quick question: if i want a good calibration with 3dlut, is the shortest calibration ( 175 points ) a good one?
Of is a higher one nessesary? Yesterday i did a 500 point calibration and the colors looked better then with the 175 point one..
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post #5289 of 5311 Old 01-02-2020, 05:44 AM
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This topic has died?
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post #5290 of 5311 Old 01-02-2020, 06:00 AM
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just a busy time of year.

is generally considered to be better to to more readings.
you should verify the 3D LUT to see if you get better colors.

and you pretty much answer your own question already.
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post #5291 of 5311 Old 01-03-2020, 01:10 AM
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Haha, thanks for youre reply!
I already thought so. The colors look more viberant and colorfol, then with a calibration with lesser points.
Again, thanks for youre reply.
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post #5292 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 07:06 AM
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Hello, I posted this in the official JVC forum to see if anyone else had this problem because my NX7 seems to be the issue but haven’t been able to solve this so here goes.

Using displaycal to make a 3DLUT for DCI color mode on the projector (which is supposed to have nearly full DCI coverage) the best gamut coverage I can get is 93%. I select DCI-65 in the 3DLUT tab, gamma custom 2.4, absolute with output offset at 100%. MadTPG is set to DCI as is my projector. The resulting 3D LUT looks great to my eyes.

If I set everything to BT2020 for some reason I get 99% gamut coverage but the color looks worse during playback. There is a color filter on the projector that is used for both BT2020 and DCI settings so that should have no effect between the modes.

Anyone know why the difference in DCI coverage between BT2020 and DCI settings? Should I run autocal for gamma or color on my projector before making a 3DLUT? (I previously have for gamma on the BT2020 setting).
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post #5293 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 07:17 AM
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just a device quirk.

you should get proper colors if you create the DCI P3 D65 3D LUT when your device is set to BT 2020 and madVR set to send bt 2020.

or you live with your current 93 % DCI 3d LUT.
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post #5294 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Hello, I posted this in the official JVC forum to see if anyone else had this problem because my NX7 seems to be the issue but haven’t been able to solve this so here goes.

Using displaycal to make a 3DLUT for DCI color mode on the projector (which is supposed to have nearly full DCI coverage) the best gamut coverage I can get is 93%. I select DCI-65 in the 3DLUT tab, gamma custom 2.4, absolute with output offset at 100%. MadTPG is set to DCI as is my projector. The resulting 3D LUT looks great to my eyes.

If I set everything to BT2020 for some reason I get 99% gamut coverage but the color looks worse during playback. There is a color filter on the projector that is used for both BT2020 and DCI settings so that should have no effect between the modes.

Anyone know why the difference in DCI coverage between BT2020 and DCI settings? Should I run autocal for gamma or color on my projector before making a 3DLUT? (I previously have for gamma on the BT2020 setting).
Not relevant to your gamut problem, but as far as I understand, you need to use 2.2 gamma for making a madVR 3DLUT as that's what madVR HDR tone-mapping uses. But you can select whatever gamma you want on your projector itself such as 2.4.
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post #5295 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
just a device quirk.



you should get proper colors if you create the DCI P3 D65 3D LUT when your device is set to BT 2020 and madVR set to send bt 2020.



or you live with your current 93 % DCI 3d LUT.


Ok so just to confirm the flow if I use the BT2020 settings-

Set displaycal to DCI P3, set projector to BT2020, and madTPG auto selects DCI P3 color patches or do I manually set madTPG to BT2020?

Then the resulting 3DLUT gets auto installed in the DCI slot in madvr - delete it from the DCI slot and put it in the BT2020 slot and colors should be accurate then?

Verification won’t give good results when doing this because a lot of colors won’t come close to BT2020. Is there a good way to verify these results with displaycal?

Also, should I check ‘disable GPU gamma ramps’ in madvr when using a 3DLUT or does that setting matter?




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post #5296 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Set displaycal to DCI P3, set projector to BT2020, and madTPG auto selects DCI P3 color patches or do I manually set madTPG to BT2020?
the only option in madVR that has an effect on the 3D LUT SDR creation is send BT 2020 which you should use in this case.
DCI P3 D65 should be correct not DCI P3.
madTPG doesn't have to send color patches in DCI P3 or bt 709 or what ever it just send a range from 0-255 and displaycal reads it.
this is different with HDR and you don't want HDR.
if your projector works correctly you don't even have to set it to bt 2020 all it needs is the report 2020 option in madVR.
Quote:
Then the resulting 3DLUT gets auto installed in the DCI slot in madvr - delete it from the DCI slot and put it in the BT2020 slot and colors should be accurate then?
it should be in the DCI p3 slot and in the end it doesn't matter you could install them in any slot madVR reads the head and know ok this is DCI P3
Quote:
Verification won’t give good results when doing this because a lot of colors won’t come close to BT2020. Is there a good way to verify these results with displaycal?
you are creating a DCI P3 D65 lut so why should the verification check for BT 2020?
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Also, should I check ‘disable GPU gamma ramps’ in madvr when using a 3DLUT or does that setting matter?
doesn't really matter for the 3D LUT but if one is loaded i would use this option.

just in general you could increase image quality further by creating 2 readings one with "send bt 2020" and one with the projector set to bt 709 without the use of report bt 2020.

with a very simple profiel you can now automatic change your projector from wide gamut mode and bt 709 mode by just sending report bt 2020 with HDR and if it isn't hdr the profile is to choice not to send bt 2020.

only the 3D LUT for HDR should be gamma 2.2 the normal one can be the usual gamma 2.4 bt 1886 or what ever you like.
the option of gamma in the projector it's usually best to get one that is as close to the native gamma of the projector as possible.
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post #5297 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
the only option in madVR that has an effect on the 3D LUT SDR creation is send BT 2020 which you should use in this case.



just in general you could increase image quality further by creating 2 readings one with "send bt 2020" and one with the projector set to bt 709 without the use of report bt 2020.



with a very simple profiel you can now automatic change your projector from wide gamut mode and bt 709 mode by just sending report bt 2020 with HDR and if it isn't hdr the profile is to choice not to send bt 2020.



only the 3D LUT for HDR should be gamma 2.2 the normal one can be the usual gamma 2.4 bt 1886 or what ever you like.

the option of gamma in the projector it's usually best to get one that is as close to the native gamma of the projector as possible.

Thanks! I didn’t have the ‘report BT2020’ option ticked and I think that would explain why my colours were terrible whenever I ran the calibration in BT2020 mode. Will run it again to test this.


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post #5298 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Thanks! I didn’t have the ‘report BT2020’ option ticked and I think that would explain why my colours were terrible whenever I ran the calibration in BT2020 mode. Will run it again to test this.


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Which projector are you using? If it's a JVC NX you only need to use report BT.2020 if using 12-bit output in windows. If you are using 8-bit then you do not need report BT.2020 checked. 8-bit is probably preferred anyways since it's full 4:4:4 whereas if you feed 12-bit into the JVC NX it results in the projector converting internally to 4:2:2.
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post #5299 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 12:05 PM
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Which projector are you using? If it's a JVC NX you only need to use report BT.2020 if using 12-bit output in windows. If you are using 8-bit then you do not need report BT.2020 checked. 8-bit is probably preferred anyways since it's full 4:4:4 whereas if you feed 12-bit into the JVC NX it results in the projector converting internally to 4:2:2.


Hmm, so maybe that isn’t my problem.

So displaycal source set to DCI P3 D65, gamma 2.2. Projector on BT2020 mode. (Setting report BT2020 maybe makes no difference?).

Madvr puts the new LUT in the DCI slot - which doesn’t really matter whether its in that slot or BT2020. When I use the verification tab I should still select DCI P3 D65 and the results should be as good as if I were doing this all with the projector in DCI mode instead of BT2020?

My deltas are all over the place on the verification report when I try this so I am confused. I will try with the ‘report BT2020’ option anyways just to try something different but I am not very hopeful.


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post #5300 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Hmm, so maybe that isn’t my problem.

So displaycal source set to DCI P3 D65, gamma 2.2. Projector on BT2020 mode. (Setting report BT2020 maybe makes no difference?).

Madvr puts the new LUT in the DCI slot - which doesn’t really matter whether its in that slot or BT2020. When I use the verification tab I should still select DCI P3 D65 and the results should be as good as if I were doing this all with the projector in DCI mode instead of BT2020?

My deltas are all over the place on the verification report when I try this so I am confused. I will try with the ‘report BT2020’ option anyways just to try something different but I am not very hopeful.


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Yeah, putting the projector in BT.2020 mode is OK for making a DCI-P3 D65 3DLUT, but in this case since you are now forcing the 3DLUT to completely convert the projector's BT.2020 gamut to a DCI-P3 gamut you will want to make sure you use a decent number of measurement patches.

And if you set your windows output to 12-bit, then you definitely should use Report BT.2020 option. With 8-bit output mode it should have no effect at least on JVC NX.
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post #5301 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 12:34 PM
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simply set teh gamut to auto or if that doesn't exist bt 709 and set send bt 2020 in madVR and play a file if the colors change after playback start send bt 2020 is working if not well yet another defect in modern electronics.
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post #5302 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Yeah, putting the projector in BT.2020 mode is OK for making a DCI-P3 D65 3DLUT, but in this case since you are now forcing the 3DLUT to completely convert the projector's BT.2020 gamut to a DCI-P3 gamut you will want to make sure you use a decent number of measurement patches.


Should 3000 be enough?


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post #5303 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 01:08 PM
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Should 3000 be enough?


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Yeah that's plenty. I'm sure you could do fewer while testing if you are still unsure of your method and options.
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post #5304 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 04:35 PM
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Yeah that's plenty. I'm sure you could do fewer while testing if you are still unsure of your method and options.


Is there any benefit to calibrating color and gamma on the projector before making a 3DLUT if I am only playing via madvr? Or does the 3DLUT negate the effort of calibrating first?


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post #5305 of 5311 Old 01-08-2020, 05:12 PM
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depends on the device.
usually fixing the white point is good everything else should be set as close to native as possible.
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post #5306 of 5311 Old 01-14-2020, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fhoech View Post
Argyll CMS currently doesn't support madTPG over the network, but I've implemented the madVR network protocol for cross-platform support from other platforms (e.g. Mac OS X) in dispcalGUI. There's a way to enable this implementation for Windows, too:

  1. Close dispcalGUI.
  2. Edit C:\Users\YourUsername\AppData\Roaming\dispcalGUI\d ispcalGUI.ini in a text editor (e.g. Notepad, not Word!) and add a new line at the bottom:
    Code:
    madtpg.native = 0
  3. Save and close the file.
  4. On the PC that should run madTPG, open it and enable network access.
  5. Now launch dispcalGUI on the other PC and start calibration/profiling.
  6. In case it can't connect to madTPG, relaunch only madTPG (that should cause madTPG to connect to dispcalGUI automatically).

Short Question:
Is this still necessary, if I want to measure from one Windows Machine (with displaycal running and the colorimeter connected)
to another Windows Machine (with madvr and madtpg running and also driving the monitor which should be measured)?




Thanks in advance
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post #5307 of 5311 Old 01-14-2020, 01:40 PM
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Is a Spyder 5 good enough to create a 3dlut for madvr on a JVC Rs440?
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post #5308 of 5311 Old 01-16-2020, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomoneSomewhere View Post
Short Question:
Is this still necessary, if I want to measure from one Windows Machine (with displaycal running and the colorimeter connected)
to another Windows Machine (with madvr and madtpg running and also driving the monitor which should be measured)?
It should be enough to enable LAN access in madHcTray.

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Is a Spyder 5 good enough to create a 3dlut for madvr on a JVC Rs440?
The main problem with the Spyder5 is it's poor low light sensitivity, making it not very suitable for devices with good black level, also it is deadly slow (when compared to other "consumer" colorimeters like i1D3 or SpyderX).
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post #5309 of 5311 Old 01-16-2020, 08:15 AM
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The low light reading shouldn't be a problem though if you read the Spyder5 from the lens though right? That's how JVC does it with autocal for gamma and on the 33 gamma steps the darkest patterns are pretty dim and it seems to read them pretty accurately and quick.

I realize that means you aren't factoring in your screen for the calibration, but JVC do also have screen calibration presets for most screen materials.

That being said, I don't think that Spyder5's color accuracy is good enough to make doing a 3DLUT worth it in my experience.
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post #5310 of 5311 Old 01-16-2020, 09:38 AM
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Spyder meters also have very high meter-to-meter variation compared to the XRite meters. Without a reference meter to cross check against, their accuracy is uncertain.

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