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post #31 of 97 Old 09-07-2018, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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New Software update for JETI Specbos/Spectraval Owners (JETI LiVal 6.12.1) has been released @ 4 September 2018.

Download Link: http://www.jeti.com/cms/index.php/jeti-software/lival
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post #32 of 97 Old 09-17-2018, 02:27 AM
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Hi Ted, is LiVal 6.12.1 for Spectraval 1501 too? Site says it's for 1201/1211.
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post #33 of 97 Old 09-17-2018, 02:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Hi Ted, is LiVal 6.12.1 for Spectraval 1501 too? Site says it's for 1201/1211.

Its for all Specto's models JETI has, any model: https://www.jeti.com/cms/index.php/jeti-software/lival

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post #34 of 97 Old 09-17-2018, 02:32 AM
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Thanks!
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post #35 of 97 Old 09-22-2018, 12:34 PM
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Ted, in Jeti-Lival, what does the 3 indicate in the integration time measurement? I'm assuming it's showing there were 3 measurements taken: auto adaption + integration time + black reading.
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post #36 of 97 Old 09-22-2018, 12:47 PM
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Nevermind, just tried a measurement in Quick mode (no adaption), and it now shows zero instead of 3, so have my answer.
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post #37 of 97 Old 09-23-2018, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Ted, in Jeti-Lival, what does the 3 indicate in the integration time measurement? I'm assuming it's showing there were 3 measurements taken: auto adaption + integration time + black reading.
Hi,

This number says that there were done 3 averages with the indicated integration time.

This is done for short integration times because it will not delay the measurements significantly but stabilizes the readings.

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post #38 of 97 Old 09-23-2018, 01:46 PM
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Thanks Ted, I will check this again next time I set up the meter. Seems that it can only be 3 or 0, so average is either happening or it's not, but i really didn't look to see.
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post #39 of 97 Old 09-30-2018, 09:48 AM
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You are correct Ted, with longer integration time there is less averaging. The integration time for blue, for example, is 376 ms and this time there is only one average.
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post #40 of 97 Old 10-24-2018, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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New Software update for JETI Specbos/Spectraval Owners (JETI LiVal 6.12.2) has been released @ 19 October 2018.

Download Link: http://www.jeti.com/cms/index.php/jeti-software/lival
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post #41 of 97 Old 10-29-2018, 08:01 PM
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I finally got my Jeti 1501 this afternoon and had a couple of questions:

1) How do you use Bluetooth with Calman? I paired my laptop with the meter successfully but Calman is looking for it on a USB port.
2) Anyone have an issue syncing and initializing the meter in Calman? If I use Auto it works fine to profile my Klein but if I try to initialize it, in Calman, subsequent reads fail with an error message. I know a lot of folks use LiVal and other software to profile but just curious.

I also compared it to my i1Pro2 and there is a noticeable difference using the Ted's profile checker when comparing the two devices. On the other hand it profiled my K10A much closer than the i1Pro2 did. xyY on Ted's profile checker were almost perfect.

I was also pleasantly surprised on how fast it reads. I also got the stray light tube which works really well.

John
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post #42 of 97 Old 10-30-2018, 01:08 AM
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Congratulations John, when you’ll get familiar with that pretty thing, I hope you’ll help your former i1 Pro 2 comrades to achieve better results. I heard a legend that tells of an i1 pro 2 that at high distances (eg a meter) returns values ​​similar to a jeti. Could you do some test, please? 🙂

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post #43 of 97 Old 10-30-2018, 06:24 AM
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I did a test where I scanned my A9F using Tedd's profile verification workflow with the Jeti and the i1Pro2, both in contact mode, the Jeti with the stray light tube which moves it back, just to see the difference since I had to start somewhere. I know the FOV wasn't correct. I do like the laser pointer though

I noticed:
1) They were close but noticeably different, (i'll post the scan)
2) When i profiled my Klein to the Jeti, the results were almost perfect. Much closer than with the i1, Especially the Y values where i was never able to get Y exact with the i1Pro
3) The Jeti reads faster, in fact i was surprised how fast, single read, which is better for the OLED since you need to worry about drift when you are profiling.
4) The further back you move the Jeti from the screen, the slower it reads, of course.


That said, i still feel it's better to profile with something like the i1Pro2 than not since although it's not in the same league as the higher end spectro's, at least it get's you close and consistent. The problem with the equipment is cost. For a Home Enthusiast the i1Pro2 is something that is in reach financially. These high end spectro's are very expensive as you know. Granted the Jeti is extreemly well built and everything is premium but now that i've done some testing, i agree, you really can't say the i1Pro is closly as accurate as the Jeti or any of the other popular spectro's. The i1Pro is a 10 nm device and the Jeti is a 4.5 nm device.

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post #44 of 97 Old 10-30-2018, 08:12 AM
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These are high level non-scientific tests becasue i didn't compensate for FOV. Everything was contact mode.
Scan1 is my scan of the Jeti 1501 and the i1Pro2 using Tedd's profile verification workflow.
Scan2 is the profile of the Klein K10A to the Jeti.
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Thanks John, could you post images of the complete WRGB comparison? TIA

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post #46 of 97 Old 10-30-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I finally got my Jeti 1501 this afternoon and had a couple of questions:

1) How do you use Bluetooth with Calman? I paired my laptop with the meter successfully but Calman is looking for it on a USB port.
2) Anyone have an issue syncing and initializing the meter in Calman? If I use Auto it works fine to profile my Klein but if I try to initialize it, in Calman, subsequent reads fail with an error message. I know a lot of folks use LiVal and other software to profile but just curious.

I also compared it to my i1Pro2 and there is a noticeable difference using the Ted's profile checker when comparing the two devices. On the other hand it profiled my K10A much closer than the i1Pro2 did. xyY on Ted's profile checker were almost perfect.

I was also pleasantly surprised on how fast it reads. I also got the stray light tube which works really well.
Hi jrref, check license for pro meters. Since you have Klein, it is maybe ok, but putting it out there. My JETI bluetooth works fine with Chromapure.

I don't think you can profile in Lival. I use Klein ChromaSurf and transfer the JETI values manually.

I find, to remove errors you must match the two meter's measuring spot sizes. I get a typical error of half of one percent with Klein in contant mode (with tube and hood) and JETI 6 feet away. Greater than 2% is no pass.

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post #47 of 97 Old 10-30-2018, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I finally got my Jeti 1501 this afternoon and had a couple of questions:

1) How do you use Bluetooth with Calman? I paired my laptop with the meter successfully but Calman is looking for it on a USB port.
2) Anyone have an issue syncing and initializing the meter in Calman? If I use Auto it works fine to profile my Klein but if I try to initialize it, in Calman, subsequent reads fail with an error message. I know a lot of folks use LiVal and other software to profile but just curious.
After u pair it with ur laptop, u shd hv a virtual com port as I recall. So in calman u select the new com port and tick Jeti. It shd find it as far as I recall.

Syncing on an OLED does not return a value in Calman for Auto/On. U would get a meter read error. Just disconnect and reconnect and set sync to off for OLED.

Syncing to OLED does not return a value on LiVal either so I think it's probably not necessary but I will need to examine more.

It did sync fine with a LED backlit LCD though.

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk
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post #48 of 97 Old 10-31-2018, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
Syncing on an OLED does not return a value in Calman for Auto/On. U would get a meter read error. Just disconnect and reconnect and set sync to off for OLED.

Syncing to OLED does not return a value on LiVal either so I think it's probably not necessary but I will need to examine more.

It did sync fine with a LED backlit LCD though.
All WRGB OLED panels are 120Hz, so you can select to Sync @ 120Hz with CalMAN or enter manually 120Hz in JETI's LiVal.

There exist displays where the real display frequency is the video frequency or multiples of it, but there exist also displays where the measured frequency is fully independent from the video frequency, the backlight can have an arbitrary value, 235 Hz for example.

When you are checking frequency syncing using a 100% White pattern with LED-LCD, its better to set the backlight to middle position. If the max backlight value is 20 then to 10 etc. (to have Pulse-width modulation 'PWM' 50% duty cycle on/off state)
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post #49 of 97 Old 10-31-2018, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
All WRGB OLED panels are 120Hz, so you can select to Sync @ 120Hz with CalMAN or enter manually 120Hz in JETI's LiVal.

There exist displays where the real display frequency is the video frequency or multiples of it, but there exist also displays where the measured frequency is fully independent from the video frequency, the backlight can have an arbitrary value, 235 Hz for example.

When you are checking frequency syncing using a 100% White pattern with LED-LCD, its better to set the backlight to middle position. If the max backlight value is 20 then to 10 etc. (to have Pulse-width modulation 'PWM' 50% duty cycle on/off state)
Thanks for all the feedback. The only questions that I still have are if the sync with the Jeti was wrong would the behavior be a misread because if I leave it on OFF or Auto, it reads fine best I can tell. And @teddd , can you set the sync in CM to ON then manually input 120 because the problem I see is if I click on initialize meter, that's when it fails and then you need to disconnect then re-connect or you will get errors in subsequent reads.

I should have listened to Tedd a while back and got the Jeti, so far it works great. The xy readings between the profiled Klein are 0.0001 but I still need to work on getting the FOV set because the Y readings are "OK" but I know I can get them better. When I first profiled with the Jeti I forgot to lower the brightness on my A9F, I think I was profiling at 250 nits when I should have been profiling 100-150 nits. Which brings me to a final question, when looking at the 1501 spec, the read luminance says 0.01 - 100 000 and 0.01 and 150 000 nits. Can the meter read over 150 nits? or is this 150,000 nits? Confusing. The only reason I ask is if I wanted to take a reading with the set was in HDR over 150 nits, can the Jeti 1501 read it at that level?

John
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John, jeti reads up to onehundredfiftythousand nits 😂
You can profile on whatever peak luminance you want.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Thanks for all the feedback. The only questions that I still have are if the sync with the Jeti was wrong would the behavior be a misread because if I leave it on OFF or Auto, it reads fine best I can tell. And @teddd , can you set the sync in CM to ON then manually input 120 because the problem I see is if I click on initialize meter, that's when it fails and then you need to disconnect then re-connect or you will get errors in subsequent reads.

I should have listened to Tedd a while back and got the Jeti, so far it works great. The xy readings between the profiled Klein are 0.0001 but I still need to work on getting the FOV set because the Y readings are "OK" but I know I can get them better. When I first profiled with the Jeti I forgot to lower the brightness on my A9F, I think I was profiling at 250 nits when I should have been profiling 100-150 nits. Which brings me to a final question, when looking at the 1501 spec, the read luminance says 0.01 - 100 000 and 0.01 and 150 000 nits. Can the meter read over 150 nits? or is this 150,000 nits? Confusing. The only reason I ask is if I wanted to take a reading with the set was in HDR over 150 nits, can the Jeti 1501 read it at that level?
jrref,

As mentioned, it does indeed read 150,000nits! Pretty neat, huh.

I do agree on ur other assessment that... Ted is the master of giving the best advice in terms of gear and his overall knowledge is certainly an asset to anyone who is into calibration...
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post #52 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post
After u pair it with ur laptop, u shd hv a virtual com port as I recall. So in calman u select the new com port and tick Jeti. It shd find it as far as I recall.

Syncing on an OLED does not return a value in Calman for Auto/On. U would get a meter read error. Just disconnect and reconnect and set sync to off for OLED.

Syncing to OLED does not return a value on LiVal either so I think it's probably not necessary but I will need to examine more.

It did sync fine with a LED backlit LCD though.

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk
I finally was able to use the 1501 with Calman an blue tooth. You were right, it created a virtual com port that I was able to connect to. Worked well.

John
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post #53 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
2) Anyone have an issue syncing and initializing the meter in Calman? If I use Auto it works fine to profile my Klein but if I try to initialize it, in Calman, subsequent reads fail with an error message. I know a lot of folks use LiVal and other software to profile but just curious.
When you try to initialize, JETI will just scan for refreshing rate (you can start measurements without initialization if you like), its not the same kind of initialization the i1PRO2 is performing (which is required).

If JETI can't detect the display refreshing rate, CalMAN has ready presets to Sync @ 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, so with WRGB OLED's, it doesn't require to perform any initialization; you just select Sync @ 120Hz from CalMAN's Meter panel. (No need to do it using the initialization screen of CalMAN and set there 120 Hz manually using your keyboard).

You can set manually via keyboard the Hz in JETI's LiVal.

JETI has an automated piezo-electric shutter mechanism where it takes/apply dark calibration offsets (to ensure accuracy) before taking each single measurement.

With i1PRO2 you take one manual dark reading when you initialize, meter can't start without that operation to work (among to other stuff its doing during that procedure, as explained here.)

So if you take 4 measurements (for meter profiling) with JETI, it will take 4 dark readings in total.
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post #54 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a test where I scanned my A9F using Tedd's profile verification workflow with the Jeti and the i1Pro2, both in contact mode, the Jeti with the stray light tube which moves it back, just to see the difference since I had to start somewhere. I know the FOV wasn't correct. I do like the laser pointer though
Stray Light Tube provide a very small FOV, about 5mm diameter. Its impossible to match with K-10A's FOV, even if you don't attach any accessory to Klein (which has 43mm FOV) or using only the Rubber Hood (which has 48mm FOV).

Stray Light Tube can be useful when you want to check quickly takin spot measurements using a paused HDR movie still, the peak output of a specific (bright) element of the scene, a small object etc, to see what is the peak output at that limited area only of the display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
3) The Jeti reads faster, in fact i was surprised how fast, single read, which is better for the OLED since you need to worry about drift when you are profiling.
If you try JETI's LiVal, it will be a lot faster there ...compared to CalMAN. It's taking quicker measurements with averaging (5-10 samples etc.) also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
4) The further back you move the Jeti from the screen, the slower it reads, of course.
If you measure the same nit level, it will take exact same time if you take the measurement from 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 feet away, the speed is not related with distance. But with CalMAN you can have randomly slowdowns.
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post #55 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I don't think you can profile in Lival. I use Klein ChromaSurf and transfer the JETI values manually.
Some instructions for the people not be familiar with that procedure:

1) You are starting with JETI LiVal, taking 4 measurements, then you export to Excel.

2) Use Klein's ChromaSurf, select that you have manual reference (manual generator also), and you copy paste the 4 xyY numbers from JETI's excel.

3) ChromaSurf then will measure also the 4 patches and then before saving it will verify again measuring again the 4 patches.... and it will export a verification excel file with deviations. (If the meter profile is not accurate, it will not allow to save any table inside to Klein)

For patch generation you can use my disk, the patch order ChromaSurf request each patch is the same as Meter Profiling of (CalMAN/ChromaPure) chapter:



For external patch generation users of CalMAN, they can open CalMAN and load the Ted's Meter Profile Check verification page:



...connecting there only their external generator (not connect any meter), and just clicking each of the 4 patches from CalMAN Slider when it will be required/requested by LiVal or ChromaSurf.

CalMAN will work only as interface to control an external patch generator, to be sure that the same patterns will be displayed during JETI or Klein meter profiling measurements.
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post #56 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
When I first profiled with the Jeti I forgot to lower the brightness on my A9F, I think I was profiling at 250 nits when I should have been profiling 100-150 nits. Which brings me to a final question, when looking at the 1501 spec, the read luminance says 0.01 - 100 000 and 0.01 and 150 000 nits. Can the meter read over 150 nits? or is this 150,000 nits? Confusing. The only reason I ask is if I wanted to take a reading with the set was in HDR over 150 nits, can the Jeti 1501 read it at that level?
With OLEDs, its better to profile @ 100 nits, at any mode, SDR or HDR mode... at these luminance levels the panels are more stable and they don't suffer from low-color volume due to WRGB design (low color luminance @ HDR issue discussed here)

JETI 1501 specs talking about the luminance range, it can measure up to 150000 nits a tungsten-filament halogen light of about 2856K temperature or 100000 nits of a high-power white led.

So there will be no problem to measure any display at any high luminance level, like 10000 nits etc.
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post #57 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
When I first profiled with the Jeti I forgot to lower the brightness on my A9F, I think I was profiling at 250 nits when I should have been profiling 100-150 nits. Which brings me to a final question, when looking at the 1501 spec, the read luminance says 0.01 - 100 000 and 0.01 and 150 000 nits. Can the meter read over 150 nits? or is this 150,000 nits? Confusing. The only reason I ask is if I wanted to take a reading with the set was in HDR over 150 nits, can the Jeti 1501 read it at that level?
With OLEDs, its better to profile @ 100 nits, at any mode, SDR or HDR mode... at these luminance levels the panels are more stable and they don't suffer from low-color volume due to WRGB design (low color luminance @ HDR issue discussed here)

JETI 1501 specs talking about the luminance range, it can measure up to 150000 nits a tungsten-filament halogen light of about 2856K temperature or 100000 nits of a high-power white led.

So there will be no problem to measure any display at any high luminance level, like 10000 nits etc.
Ted thanks. As always good knowledgeable advice

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
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Last edited by jrref; 11-01-2018 at 06:19 PM.
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post #58 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you try to initialize, JETI will just scan for refreshing rate (you can start measurements without initialization if you like), its not the same kind of initialization the i1PRO2 is performing (which is required).

If JETI can't detect the display refreshing rate, CalMAN has ready presets to Sync @ 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, so with WRGB OLED's, it doesn't require to perform any initialization; you just select Sync @ 120Hz from CalMAN's Meter panel. (No need to do it using the initialization screen of CalMAN and set there 120 Hz manually using your keyboard).

You can set manually via keyboard the Hz in JETI's LiVal.

JETI has an automated piezo-electric shutter mechanism where it takes/apply dark calibration offsets (to ensure accuracy) before taking each single measurement.

With i1PRO2 you take one manual dark reading when you initialize, meter can't start without that operation to work (among to other stuff its doing during that procedure, as explained here.)

So if you take 4 measurements (for meter profiling) with JETI, it will take 4 dark readings in total.
Yep, I went into the CM meter setup, selected Sync On then typed in 60hz (I was taking a reading from my PC monitor), didn't initialize the meter and it worked!
See attached image. Thanks!
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Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
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post #59 of 97 Old 11-01-2018, 11:46 PM
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Is it Possible to manually input the reference meter from jeti into calman enthusiast, for meter profile ?
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post #60 of 97 Old 11-02-2018, 12:23 AM
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AFAIK in CalMAN you can insert manually the whole FCCM, not singular readings of reference/target meter.

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