Official calibration of the Vizio P series - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 09:20 AM
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What should I focus on if the skin tones are a tad bit too red or yellow. I notice it when I'm watching the news. The anchors looks a little sunburn or pale. I'm using terryscott621 settings as a base line.
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post #1232 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BobaFettm View Post
Not from a cable from cable channels themselves. My comcast cable box's hues look entirely different than streamed 4k, blurays, and game consoles.

On my Kuro I have different settings for different displays. Meaning a setting for when the room is closed off from light and one when it's not...

So far this Tv's hues have been radically different between cable channel sources versus the two other Tvs I've mentioned earlier.

It's all depends on the source material and why it was graded to. The problem many find is that there is a wide variety of things Cable channels are graded/mastered to. This wide swath is very evident on this TV. You also have to remember that each input needs to be set with the correct settings (the ones you calibrated). For instance if you calibrate on HDMI 5 and switch to via apps then you need to change the settings on the via apps to the stored settings that you have on HDMI 5.

Personally I haven't run into any major issues between sources (TV/ps4/XBone/media files/blu-Ray) I have two settings one for day (calibrated/computer and one for night calibrated dark/normal) haven't had any major issues.


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post #1233 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
It's all depends on the source material and why it was graded to. The problem many find is that there is a wide variety of things Cable channels are graded/mastered to. This wide swath is very evident on this TV. You also have to remember that each input needs to be set with the correct settings (the ones you calibrated). For instance if you calibrate on HDMI 5 and switch to via apps then you need to change the settings on the via apps to the stored settings that you have on HDMI 5.

Personally I haven't run into any major issues between sources (TV/ps4/XBone/media files/blu-Ray) I have two settings one for day (calibrated/computer and one for night calibrated dark/normal) haven't had any major issues.


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Now that I am pleased with my calibrated dark/normal settings for night viewing, I started working on calibrated/computer settings for daytime/gaming viewing.

One thing I noticed right off the bat is how much blue push computer mode has!! How should I approach the greyscale in this situation? Initially, I started calibrating 2-point and the swings were crazy! Blue was at -50 for Gain and the complete opposite for Offset. I just don't feel this is right and reseted all color settings to start again.

Is this normal? Any tips?

BTW, I set HCFR's gamma calculation setting to Display Gamma (power law) with ref/avg gamma set at 2.2.

Is this correct?


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post #1234 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Now that I am pleased with my calibrated dark/normal settings for night viewing, I started working on calibrated/computer settings for daytime/gaming viewing.

One thing I noticed right off the bat is how much blue push computer mode has!! How should I approach the greyscale in this situation? Initially, I started calibrating 2-point and the swings were crazy! Blue was at -50 for Gain and the complete opposite for Offset. I just don't feel this is right and reseted all color settings to start again.

Is this normal? Any tips?

BTW, I set HCFR's gamma calculation setting to Display Gamma (power law) with ref/avg gamma set at 2.2.

Is this correct?


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Try leaving the 2pt (as suggested before) and only work the 11pt. The computer color temp skews blue and all you can do is try to get close (it may not be perfect). Daytime viewing is much less critical so being "exact" is not nearly as important as when watching at night.


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post #1235 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Try leaving the 2pt (as suggested before) and only work the 11pt. The computer color temp skews blue and all you can do is try to get close (it may not be perfect). Daytime viewing is much less critical so being "exact" is not nearly as important as when watching at night.


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Thanks, will give that a shot...


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post #1236 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Try leaving the 2pt (as suggested before) and only work the 11pt. The computer color temp skews blue and all you can do is try to get close (it may not be perfect). Daytime viewing is much less critical so being "exact" is not nearly as important as when watching at night.


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Leaving 2-point alone, when I go to 11-point and try to bring down blue on each percentage, it does nothing. 5-100%, moving blue up and down shows no change for blue in HCFR while doing a free measure.


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post #1237 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Official calibration of the Vizio P series

You should be able to adjust the 2 point on the computer temp just fine. Are you sure you are adjusting each one correctly with regards to the correct percentage? What ph8te is saying is what fafrd did for the normal color temp and it worked great for him. I don't know that you will have enough room to decrease the amount of blue without messing with the two point. Take a look at my settings on the first page and use those for your two point and run the sweep and see if it gets closer or not.

As for moving the blue at each percentage this is much tricker in computer and is why some avoid it. In order to adjust say 40% blue you will need to change the 50% values in the tv. If you play around with it long enough you will see what I mean and be able to calibrate around this. It's tricky but can be done.

Unfortunately I think I am going to have to start over with buying s new meter and an i1 pro when the time comes. The friend I loaned it to was unfortunately shot trying to stop a robbery. I don't have the heart to bother the family just to get my stuff. I will either leave it or over time possibly go get it but I'm going to leave that be for a while. @fafrd I apologize and am not sure when/if I can send you the meter anymore. I hope you understand.
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post #1238 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
You should be able to adjust the 2 point on the computer temp just fine. Are you sure you are adjusting each one correctly with regards to the correct percentage? What ph8te is saying is what fafrd did for the normal color temp and it worked great for him. I don't know that you will have enough room to decrease the amount of blue without messing with the two point. Take a look at my settings on the first page and use those for your two point and run the sweep and see if it gets closer or not.

As for moving the blue at each percentage this is much tricker in computer and is why some avoid it. In order to adjust say 40% blue you will need to change the 50% values in the tv. If you play around with it long enough you will see what I mean and be able to calibrate around this. It's tricky but can be done.

I just observed this a few minutes ago. 2-pt definitely needs to be tweaked with computer temp in order to have some leeway when adjusting the 11-pt. I also concur that if I want to tweak say 50%, I need to tweak the next percentage over. Very tricky indeed but it's all about trial and error. Thanks, Kyle.


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post #1239 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 04:42 PM
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Quick question guys.

Can someone tell me what is considered a good result when it comes to calibrating with HCFR? I mean, what is considered a good DE? Anything below 2.0? 3.0? I feel that I might be trying to knit pick too much without any reason for it.

I am trying my best to get stuff like gamma, RGB values, etc, track extremely close to reference and maybe I just am being unrealistic with my expectations.

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated and will help calm my OCD down. Family members around my house are starting to get impatient with my "never ending tweaking" and they want to watch TV! Hahahaha


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post #1240 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 04:49 PM
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In regards to ALZ for 100%. I was at a get together this weekend and ment a guy named Dave that is a certified THX calibrator with 17 years experience and hundreds of hours of course time.
So I was telling him about the ALZ on the P series and how everyone is calibrating gray scale.
He has calibrated 4 P series and he told me that if I did it that way that the graph will look good but the gray scale would not be correct.
Then he told me run a quick pass with ALZ on and then one with it off and watch the gray scale and gamma fall on its face.
So yesterday I did just that and wow he was right. He said it's tricky but if you are going to have ALZ on for normal use that it needs to be calibrated with ALZ on.
Then he laughed and said he wasn't sure why anyone would want it off.

So per what he told me and in my testing he is correct.
Just found this interesting and I have to say I myself found it strange as to why to turn ALZ on or off during calibration.
If there is disbelief just do as I did and run your 11p with it on and off. And then how you calibrated your set.

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post #1241 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Official calibration of the Vizio P series

@AVmanic I'm not sure why he told you that. @buzzard767 also a THX certified calibrated as well as pretty much every calibrator will tell you to calibrate it with it off. I'm not sure how he calibrated a P series with it on since the reason it messes up the gamma is due to an incorrect reading of the 0% aka black. When you watch tv let's say a show such as the walking dead your zones are "active" you are relying on the panels native grey scale to provide the detail. When you calibrate with alz turned on the meter reads zero for 0% this initial reading is what all gamma curves are based from with the exception of bt1886 which in turn uses both 0% and 100% to establish the "recommended" values. If you calibrated with ALZ on it would be impossible unless you set the 0% to some arbitrary number (which wouldn't make sense bc that would screw your grey scale up anyways). As far as turning ALZ on at 100% this is no longer recommended. You should do the entire sweep with it off. The only reason we turned it on was to calibrate the RGB values of 100% since turning ALZ on produces a shift in the colors that would add a lot more blue. This shift is nearly non existent now as it only was prevalent with early firmware so you can do the calibration with ALZ off the entire time. What you can do is experiment by forcing a border around the 10% window such as me and fafrd but what you will find is there is nearly zero change with it on or off. Anyways the effect you are seeing is with ALZ on the luminance value of the tv is below the spec of the meter. If you do not believe what I'm telling you then by all means try and calibrate with ALZ on and you will soon find it impossible. I have no idea why he would tell you that since calibrating FALD tvs it has always been standard practice to calibrate with ALZ off.

I'm not 100% sure everything I said is correct but I'm fairly certain on the work flow. Hopefully buzz will shed some light on this issue and correct my mistakes. He is much more experienced than me and has taught me most of the stuff I am relaying to you.
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post #1242 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Quick question guys.

Can someone tell me what is considered a good result when it comes to calibrating with HCFR? I mean, what is considered a good DE? Anything below 2.0? 3.0? I feel that I might be trying to knit pick too much without any reason for it.

I am trying my best to get stuff like gamma, RGB values, etc, track extremely close to reference and maybe I just am being unrealistic with my expectations.

Any guidance on this would be greatly appreciated and will help calm my OCD down. Family members around my house are starting to get impatient with my "never ending tweaking" and they want to watch TV! Hahahaha


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You would want your gamma below 1 and as close to all of them below .7 as possible but like I said before that is for your own piece of mind since the meter is not profiled.
As for the colors what I always have done is play around with all of the settings once dialed in at 75%/75% and then run both CCSG and skin tone in an effort to get the lowest DE possible. Low as possible is not really a known number just as low as you can before any change you makes creates a larger average DE This is tedious as you must only change one thing at a time and run again to see if it helps or hurts. Once I get the lowest DE I watch som content that I know what it should look like and only adjust red hue to ensure faces look proper.

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post #1243 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
You should be able to adjust the 2 point on the computer temp just fine. Are you sure you are adjusting each one correctly with regards to the correct percentage? What ph8te is saying is what fafrd did for the normal color temp and it worked great for him. I don't know that you will have enough room to decrease the amount of blue without messing with the two point. Take a look at my settings on the first page and use those for your two point and run the sweep and see if it gets closer or not.

As for moving the blue at each percentage this is much tricker in computer and is why some avoid it. In order to adjust say 40% blue you will need to change the 50% values in the tv. If you play around with it long enough you will see what I mean and be able to calibrate around this. It's tricky but can be done.

Unfortunately I think I am going to have to start over with buying s new meter and an i1 pro when the time comes. The friend I loaned it to was unfortunately shot trying to stop a robbery. I don't have the heart to bother the family just to get my stuff. I will either leave it or over time possibly go get it but I'm going to leave that be for a while. @fafrd I apologize and am not sure when/if I can send you the meter anymore. I hope you understand.

I'm sorry to hear that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your friends family.


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post #1244 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVmanic View Post
In regards to ALZ for 100%. I was at a get together this weekend and ment a guy named Dave that is a certified THX calibrator with 17 years experience and hundreds of hours of course time.
So I was telling him about the ALZ on the P series and how everyone is calibrating gray scale.
He has calibrated 4 P series and he told me that if I did it that way that the graph will look good but the gray scale would not be correct.
Then he told me run a quick pass with ALZ on and then one with it off and watch the gray scale and gamma fall on its face.
So yesterday I did just that and wow he was right. He said it's tricky but if you are going to have ALZ on for normal use that it needs to be calibrated with ALZ on.
Then he laughed and said he wasn't sure why anyone would want it off.

So per what he told me and in my testing he is correct.
Just found this interesting and I have to say I myself found it strange as to why to turn ALZ on or off during calibration.
If there is disbelief just do as I did and run your 11p with it on and off. And then how you calibrated your set.
#1 - the 100% luminance ALZ on/off anomaly no longer exists with the new FW

#2 - can you get gamma 2.2 with ALZ on and full field patterns?
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post #1245 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Official calibration of the Vizio P series

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
#1 - the 100% luminance ALZ on/off anomaly no longer exists with the new FW



#2 - can you get gamma 2.2 with ALZ on and full field patterns?

No I tried doing that previously and the meter (i1d3) still recognizes the 0% as 0.00
When done this way it provides you will really weird graphs basically a decreasing gamma curve

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post #1246 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Updated to eliminate sunburn....
Color Tuner
Hue (4,8,1,1,1,-1)
Saturation (5,21,11,34,21,9)
Brightness (11,4,7,6,4,2)
Offset(3,-1,-4)
Gain(-16,0,-15)
Thank you. My P60 looks AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW... No more sunburns.
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post #1247 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I think those might be older setting please refer to the first page to get updated setting. I also recommend to stick with P60 calibration settings

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post #1248 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVmanic View Post
In regards to ALZ for 100%. I was at a get together this weekend and ment a guy named Dave that is a certified THX calibrator with 17 years experience and hundreds of hours of course time.
So I was telling him about the ALZ on the P series and how everyone is calibrating gray scale.
He has calibrated 4 P series and he told me that if I did it that way that the graph will look good but the gray scale would not be correct.
Then he told me run a quick pass with ALZ on and then one with it off and watch the gray scale and gamma fall on its face.
So yesterday I did just that and wow he was right. He said it's tricky but if you are going to have ALZ on for normal use that it needs to be calibrated with ALZ on.
Then he laughed and said he wasn't sure why anyone would want it off.

So per what he told me and in my testing he is correct.
Just found this interesting and I have to say I myself found it strange as to why to turn ALZ on or off during calibration.
If there is disbelief just do as I did and run your 11p with it on and off. And then how you calibrated your set.

Dimming does all sorts of strange things and it is customary to turn it off while calibrating FALD displays.

goto 0:34
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post #1249 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 09:05 PM
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AVmanic - Dave Evans?

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post #1250 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I think those might be older setting please refer to the first page to get updated setting. I also recommend to stick with P60 calibration settings
Ahh, how can it look any better....

I will tweak some more.

Thanks!
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post #1251 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 10:15 PM
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Just FYI, the half screen color shift anomaly I was experiencing was due to extreme green hue setting in the 2-point calibration. I believe I had it set to +35 and that was causing the right half of the screen to display a different hue of green whenever a predominantly green image was being displayed.

Throwing it out there in case someone runs into something similar.


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post #1252 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I couldn't adjust green at all or black surrounding the patch would have a green tint. I forgot which color setting did this but if you look at my settings it will become clear.

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post #1253 of 1977 Old 03-16-2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I couldn't adjust green at all or black surrounding the patch would have a green tint. I forgot which color setting did this but if you look at my settings it will become clear.

Are you guys calibrating with windows? I read somewhere that these newer HDTVs should be calibrated with full screen patterns.


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post #1254 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 05:52 AM
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As I have said in the past.........I use the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition to calibrate my tv. They have these equal energy patterns which put the exact same amount of 0-100 on the same screen with the step your calibrating in the center. They said in their forums that they are great to use with any type of screen. What I have noticed is that full fields screw up gamma when ALZ is enabled but with the equal energy patterns they don't alter grey scale that much at all. Which tells me that in real footage with different grey scale steps always on the screen the ALZ doesn't affect it too much.
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post #1255 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
AVmanic - Dave Evans?
First off thank you both for your explanations on this.
As for full name there was a lot of people there and he was introduced as Dave and in our conversations our last names never came up.
For me I was more interested in taking something away from our conversation that I could apply to my own calibration.

Once again thank you for all your input.

Edit: I know some on here don't touch there 2p and others do. I myself use 30% and 100% for that. And then move on to my 11p.
Any input on this method?

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post #1256 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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If you use the two point or if you don't the results "should" be the exact same. You will instead end up with larger offsets on the 11 point to make up for not using the 2 point. That's pretty much it unless you find that the 2 point is messing with your gamma for whatever reason I would say adjust it.

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post #1257 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you guys calibrating with windows? I read somewhere that these newer HDTVs should be calibrated with full screen patterns.


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I used 10% windows. I have read this is due to the luminance being altered by using full window and that can screw up the projected gamma target values. I have not verified this myself but you will notice buzz and googer using the same. They are both more experienced that I am so I always go with the people that have been doing it for a long time over my own judgement

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post #1258 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
I used 10% windows. I have read this is due to the luminance being altered by using full window and that can screw up the projected gamma target values. I have not verified this myself but you will notice buzz and googer using the same. They are both more experienced that I am so I always go with the people that have been doing it for a long time over my own judgement

And this is why I asked you guys quickly! I highly regard you guys as experienced calibrators and follow your footsteps.



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post #1259 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
As I have said in the past.........I use the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition to calibrate my tv. They have these equal energy patterns which put the exact same amount of 0-100 on the same screen with the step your calibrating in the center. They said in their forums that they are great to use with any type of screen. What I have noticed is that full fields screw up gamma when ALZ is enabled but with the equal energy patterns they don't alter grey scale that much at all. Which tells me that in real footage with different grey scale steps always on the screen the ALZ doesn't affect it too much.
This seems like a great approach to calibrating with ALZ on, rather than trying to find a work around through software or the ON/OFF approach at 0-90%/100%. I just saw in a recent post from superkyle that he's recommending ALZ off for the entire cal.
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post #1260 of 1977 Old 03-17-2015, 10:25 PM
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You should be able to adjust the 2 point on the computer temp just fine. Are you sure you are adjusting each one correctly with regards to the correct percentage? What ph8te is saying is what fafrd did for the normal color temp and it worked great for him. I don't know that you will have enough room to decrease the amount of blue without messing with the two point. Take a look at my settings on the first page and use those for your two point and run the sweep and see if it gets closer or not.

As for moving the blue at each percentage this is much tricker in computer and is why some avoid it. In order to adjust say 40% blue you will need to change the 50% values in the tv. If you play around with it long enough you will see what I mean and be able to calibrate around this. It's tricky but can be done.

Unfortunately I think I am going to have to start over with buying s new meter and an i1 pro when the time comes. The friend I loaned it to was unfortunately shot trying to stop a robbery. I don't have the heart to bother the family just to get my stuff. I will either leave it or over time possibly go get it but I'm going to leave that be for a while. @fafrd I apologize and am not sure when/if I can send you the meter anymore. I hope you understand.
Superkyle - wow - I'm sorry for you and your friend. Don't worry at all about the meter. As your shopping for your replacement gear, send me a PM if you find any really good deals.
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