Official calibration of the Vizio P series - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 01:57 AM
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Wagner's P602ui-B3 calibration using HCFR, GCD Disk on Blu-ray, Colormunki Display, Makers Mark Whiskey, Fafrd, Superkyle, ERuiz, Many others, an awesome thread and most importantly an incredibly patient SHW!!!

FW Version 1.1.19
Daytime Viewing Settings for 50 fTL @100% IRE White

Picture Mode: Calibrated
Backlight: 43
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

More Picture settings:

Color Temperature: Normal
Black Detail: Off
Active LED Zones: On
Smooth Motion Effect: Off
Clear Action: On
Reduce Signal Noise: Off
Reduce Block Noise: Off
Game Low Latency: Off
Film Mode: Auto
Gamma: 2.2

Color Calibration Color Tuner Settings

Hue: R -3, G 0, B 0 , C -5, M 1 , Y 2
Saturation: R 3, G 2, B -2, C 2, M 9, Y -3
Brightness: R -5, G 3, B -4, C 2, M -5, Y 1
Offset: R -1, G 0, B -2
Gain: R 7, G 0, B -18

Color Calibration 11 Point White Balance Settings:

IRE% R G B
5% -3 1 -11
10% -1 -3 2
20% -2 -1 -1
30% -3 -4 -6
40% -4 -3 -6
50% -5 -4 -4
60% -3 -10 -10
70% -5 -9 -8
80% -5 -10 -11
90% -8 -7 -8
100% 11 -11 3

Notes: Calibration was done with ALZ off throughout, Rec 709 75%/75%, CIE94 color correction, Gamma powerlaw @ 2.2 and Red Hue was calibrated at -8 and when viewed with reference material was changed to -3 to avoid sunburned faces (thanks Buzz). I tried using the pattern generator on HCFR and found that my computer output did not jive with the Blu-ray and switched to blu-ray because that is where I watch most of the material on this tv. Picture is great, now onto calibrated dark....
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Last edited by Ian Wagner; 03-18-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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post #1262 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 06:10 AM
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hmmm...wonder what the effects of Maker's Mark is on color acuity...


Is that light skin color dE 3.2 before or after you did the red hue tweak by eye?
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post #1263 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
hmmm...wonder what the effects of Maker's Mark is on color acuity...


Is that light skin color dE 3.2 before or after you did the red hue tweak by eye?
Lol, it is before. I didn't run any measures after adjusting red hue but I will today to see what happened.
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post #1264 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Wagner View Post
Lol, it is before. I didn't run any measures after adjusting red hue but I will today to see what happened.

You need to run your color patches before tweaking by eye. Those would have told you that something is wrong out of the gate. You can also use those to make minor adjustments to lower the avg. DE for the entire color checker. It is definitely worth spending some time here. Also I would use CIE2000 as your color scale. Other than that looks like you did a good job. Now do it again but this time better haha

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post #1265 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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@ERuiz I saw you got another tv from where you posted in the HCFR forum. Use CIE2000 and also did you return the P? This is shocking news haha

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post #1266 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
@ERuiz I saw you got another tv from where you posted in the HCFR forum. Use CIE2000 and also did you return the P? This is shocking news haha

Hi Kyle,

Yea, I got the LG 65UF8500 last night but STILL have the P70. If this LG performs better than the P70, then I will return the Vizio. If not, the Vizio is a keeper. ;-)

And thanks, I will use CIE2000... how about the color space? REC-709 or sRGB to match my laptop's output? And the gamma thingy? Power Law or with black compensation? Lol sorry man, had to ask here as well since you brought it up.


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post #1267 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Official calibration of the Vizio P series

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Hi Kyle,

Yea, I got the LG 65UF8500 last night but STILL have the P70. If this LG performs better than the P70, then I will return the Vizio. If not, the Vizio is a keeper. ;-)

And thanks, I will use CIE2000... how about the color space? REC-709 or sRGB to match my laptop's output? And the gamma thingy? Power Law or with black compensation? Lol sorry man, had to ask here as well since you brought it up.


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I will be interested in your review. Just out of curiosity I don't plan to return the P as I am more than happy with it. REC709 is a good color space. The video card on the laptop can output any color so no need to match anything with the laptop output. One issue you might face is that what your laptop is outputting is not the same as say your bluray player. I faced this issue myself and for the life of me can't remember what fixed it but I got it fixed and haven't looked back. It's important to verify the computer output with say a bluray to ensure the patches are being displayed the way that they should. Gamma really depends. If you watch movies in a dark environment then bt1886 @2.4 gamma will arguably be the best since it really brings out the black detail. For high ambient light conditions then a flatline gamma of say 2.2 should be fine. Personally I am using bt1886 with a gamma of 2.4 for night and my other computer color temp is calibrated to bt1886 gamma of 2.2 simply bc I think it looks better. It's all about preference really. If you understand the gamma values ie higher is darker then when you look at the chart for bt1886 you will see why this is a good choice for many.

Edit: @zoyd is awesome isn't he. He helped me out a lot in my journey. When he tells you something listen closely and soak it all in as I did. A few months from now and 5-10 calibrations later( not that you will need it but since you have a meter you tend to just do it bc you can and want practice) you will start to really understand more and more about all of the settings. Once you get to this point you will be able to calibrate the P series or almost any other TV in around 2 hours. Yes you can do it faster but I like to tweak for ever bit of accuracy...I mean why not right?

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Last edited by superkyle; 03-18-2015 at 08:45 AM.
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post #1268 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
You need to run your color patches before tweaking by eye. Those would have told you that something is wrong out of the gate. You can also use those to make minor adjustments to lower the avg. DE for the entire color checker. It is definitely worth spending some time here. Also I would use CIE2000 as your color scale. Other than that looks like you did a good job. Now do it again but this time better haha
Yep, color patches were run before adjusting by eye, I just didn't run color checker a second time after looking at reference material and adjusting the red hue from -8 to -3. I'm going to get Ted's disk to do some further color checking.

I went with CIE94 after reading the chromapure article on it

"...Thus, if a display has an oversaturated color, but you have no means to correct this, you can improve overall accuracy by lowering the luminance of that oversaturated color slightly (for example, by lowering the main Color control a couple of ticks). This is what both the RGB and the CIE94 analysis recommend. For this reason, I recommend CIE94 as the preferred ΔE formula for assessing the color performance of quality displays."


but I plan to do another cal using CIE2000 and will compare the two results. Here is a link to an article I found on CIE2000. Thanks!
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post #1269 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting I was told CIE94 is outdated and thus you should use 2000 to get a better idea of accuracy. I'll take a look and do some reading and see if I can't come up with a better answer to why I was told to use 2000 over 94

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post #1270 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Interesting I was told CIE94 is outdated and thus you should use 2000 to get a better idea of accuracy. I'll take a look and do some reading and see if I can't come up with a better answer to why I was told to use 2000 over 94
2000 is all I use.
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post #1271 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 11:22 AM
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I apologize for the novice question. I'm still learning the P60.

What does "Clear Action" do?

When I turn it on, the screen gets dimmer, but when it's off, the screen gets brighter.
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post #1272 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Clear action is a backlight strobe. It is what allows the refresh rate to appear to be 240hz while the panel itself is 120hz

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post #1273 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 11:30 AM
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Do you guys prefer to have it off?

If Clear Action is referring to refresh rate, how come it effect the backlight?
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post #1274 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
Hi Kyle,

Yea, I got the LG 65UF8500 last night but STILL have the P70. If this LG performs better than the P70, then I will return the Vizio. If not, the Vizio is a keeper. ;-)

And thanks, I will use CIE2000... how about the color space? REC-709 or sRGB to match my laptop's output? And the gamma thingy? Power Law or with black compensation? Lol sorry man, had to ask here as well since you brought it up.


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If you've got both TVs and a meter, you can be a hero if you'd be willing to take some comparison measurements. Calibrate both sets for the same 100% IRE output and then find a good dark scene from Gravity or TRON II or Dark Knight or whatever and measure black level at the same point on the scene (freeze-framed).

Many of us will be interested to see how the black levels compare and the comparison may even sway your ultimate decision.

There revalue the photos on the GCD disk that provide easy 'universal' reference material...
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post #1275 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cprawks View Post
Do you guys prefer to have it off?

If Clear Action is referring to refresh rate, how come it effect the backlight?
Search for 'backlight scanning' of 'black frame insertion' and you kind find all the detail you need.

In a nutshell, the length of time a static pattern is maintained on a TV (pixel persistence) is the major source of image blur on modern TVs. If refresh rate is doubled, pixel persistence is halved, but this requires sources with double the frame rate or artificial doubling of the frame rate through frame interpolation (calculated frames). This is what Smooth Motion does.

Another way to reduce pixel persistence (and motion blur) by 50% is to blank each pixel for half of the ON time, but this will cut light output in half. Compensating for this by doubling brightness, you will have an equivalent image with half the motion blur. This is what Clear Action does. It delivers the same pixel-persistence/motion blur as a simple refresh rate that is twice as fast...

For fast-action OTA sports, the best motion performance will be achieved by combining SM and CA...
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post #1276 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
hmmm...wonder what the effects of Maker's Mark is on color acuity...


Is that light skin color dE 3.2 before or after you did the red hue tweak by eye?
I switched my color control to CIE2000, made a few minor adjustments on my primary/secondary sweep, ran color checker, viewed some faces in reference material and confirmed that my -3 hue in Red is correct and then re-ran color checker. With sunburned faces (-8 Red Hue) my 75/75 red had a dE of 0.03, now it's a dE of 2.3 and light skin when from dE 3.6 to a dE of 2.1

I'm sure that there's much finer tuning of the colors that I can do, just takes time.
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post #1277 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Show the CiE diagram with all primary and secondary points measured. That is more help then what the DE shows on just a few colors. I will say this though you want the light skin to be below 1

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Wagner View Post
I switched my color control to CIE2000, made a few minor adjustments on my primary/secondary sweep, ran color checker, viewed some faces in reference material and confirmed that my -3 hue in Red is correct and then re-ran color checker. With sunburned faces (-8 Red Hue) my 75/75 red had a dE of 0.03, now it's a dE of 2.3 and light skin when from dE 3.6 to a dE of 2.1

I'm sure that there's much finer tuning of the colors that I can do, just takes time.
That really looks good. 2.1 is good in my book for light skin. If someone's eye can see a difference from 1 two 2.1 then they don't need a meter to calibrate.
I know for a fact a pro can't see that small of a Delta with his eyes.

Love to see the human eye see a Delta of 1.1 haha..

Good job...
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post #1279 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Grey scale difference you are correct. That even holds true for 99% of color measurements but skin tone do not look proper to me until I tweaked by eye and once tweaked by eye the DE was below 0.5 previously it was 2.5. So yes I can tell a difference but yes for something like greyscale I couldn't tell at all.

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post #1280 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 02:19 PM
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Thank you for the nutshell. It makes sense now.

So, depending what I'm watching, can I turn it on and off?
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post #1281 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Show the CiE diagram with all primary and secondary points measured. That is more help then what the DE shows on just a few colors. I will say this though you want the light skin to be below 1
The CIE diagram below has the primary/secondary and color checker points on it - unless I misunderstood what you mean
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post #1282 of 1977 Old 03-18-2015, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Official calibration of the Vizio P series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Wagner View Post
The CIE diagram below has the primary/secondary and color checker points on it - unless I misunderstood what you mean

It does you are correct but what I am looking for is the CiEcharts that shows the saturation sweep points for all primary and secondary. Showing only one point doesn't provide me with the entire picture to tell you if your results are what is to be expected.

Edit: like this...

Well not exactly since that is taken from calman but you get the hint

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post #1283 of 1977 Old 03-19-2015, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle View Post
Grey scale difference you are correct. That even holds true for 99% of color measurements but skin tone do not look proper to me until I tweaked by eye and once tweaked by eye the DE was below 0.5 previously it was 2.5. So yes I can tell a difference but yes for something like greyscale I couldn't tell at all.
Interesting. I had the opposite experience last week. 75/75 Red was about .5dE and bad flesh tones. A small Hue change corrected the flesh tone and increased the dE to about 2.5. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.....
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post #1284 of 1977 Old 03-19-2015, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprawks View Post
Thank you for the nutshell. It makes sense now.

So, depending what I'm watching, can I turn it on and off?
Good idea to learn to QUOTE so your post has some context (your lucky I had time to check the thread today and remembered my recent response to you :-).

Yes, you can turn on CA and SME only when watching fast action OTA a sports and leave them off when watching 24fps Blurays.

You can also use one of the viewing modes such as Game or Vivid to pre-establish your preferred setting for OTA sports. This makes it easier for other family members to use by selecting with the PIC button on the remote...

Obviously, when CA is switched ON, Backlight also needs to be adjusted to compensate for the change in brightness...
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Good idea to learn to QUOTE so your post has some context (your lucky I had time to check the thread today and remembered my recent response to you :-).

Yes, you can turn on CA and SME only when watching fast action OTA a sports and leave them off when watching 24fps Blurays.

You can also use one of the viewing modes such as Game or Vivid to pre-establish your preferred setting for OTA sports. This makes it easier for other family members to use by selecting with the PIC button on the remote...

Obviously, when CA is switched ON, Backlight also needs to be adjusted to compensate for the change in brightness...
I'm learning a lot from you guys. Thank you. Last night, I was watching basketball on Directv and saw what you mean by CA. There weren't a lot of difference, maybe because of the compression from Directv. I also tried SME on sitcoms and it was too distracting.

Other than watching sports on OTA, is CA really needed?
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Question on manipulating light skin values with HCFR and GCD disk:

In trying to lower my dE of light skin which was at 2.1. I ran color checker again and then switched to my CIE Diagram tab and selected active measure. I then changed some of the Hue, Sat and Brightness on Red to bring it inline for x & y values. I then ran color checker again and x & y were spot on, but I had a dE of 1.6 and a luminance of -5.8%. So how in the world do I adjust that luminance which I'm guessing would lower that dE? The CIE diagram doesn't have any way to measure luminance...Any thoughts?
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post #1287 of 1977 Old 03-19-2015, 04:34 PM
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Click the light skin color column header on the color checker page and then run continuous measures, that will give you real-time output of delta luminance.
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post #1288 of 1977 Old 03-19-2015, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Click the light skin color column header on the color checker page and then run continuous measures, that will give you real-time output of delta luminance.
Perfect, thank you and will do!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprawks View Post
I'm learning a lot from you guys. Thank you. Last night, I was watching basketball on Directv and saw what you mean by CA. There weren't a lot of difference, maybe because of the compression from Directv. I also tried SME on sitcoms and it was too distracting.

Other than watching sports on OTA, is CA really needed?
Not by me. I only use it in conjunction with SME to reduce motion blur when watching fast-action OTA sports...
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post #1290 of 1977 Old 03-20-2015, 11:06 AM
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Hey guys, I've seen some of you have calibrated the P70 with BT.1886 for night time viewing. How do I setup HCFR for BT.1886 gamma if the P70 does NOT have a BT.1886 gamma option?

If I select BT.1886 in HCFR, it will obviously show that curved gamma tracking but the TV will track in a straight line.

I'm confused as to how you guys accomplish this.


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