Setting Sharpness on Samsungs with AVS Black Clipping Pattern Question... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 12-24-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Setting Sharpness on Samsungs with AVS Black Clipping Pattern Question...

As the title states, I trying to set sharpness on my Samsung LED-LCD via the AVS Black Clipping Pattern and I did the following:

Started at sharpness zero and turned it up one click at the time looking for white lines around the invisible bars (digital 16 and below). When I turned it to 7, I saw a bit of white lines where the bar for digital 16 (reference black) would be (but not at digital 15 or lower), and so I settled on a sharpness setting of 6.

My question is whether this is the correct way to use this method and how to know when/if the method doesn't work?

Also, I'm using the CAL-NIGHT pic mode if that matters...

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post #2 of 14 Old 12-24-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
As the title states, I trying to set sharpness on my Samsung LED-LCD via the AVS Black Clipping Pattern and I did the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post


Started at sharpness zero and turned it up one click at the time looking for white lines around the invisible bars (digital 16 and below). When I turned it to 7, I saw a bit of white lines where the bar for digital 16 (reference black) would be (but not at digital 15 or lower), and so I settled on a sharpness setting of 6.


My question is whether this is the correct way to use this method and how to know when/if the method doesn't work?


Also, I'm using the CAL-NIGHT pic mode if that matters...


Hi, I believe it's something that has to do with samsung's internal processing.


You can see that by checking the Advanced Brightness Pattern of my calibration disk.




If you look closely the the right side of the pattern there some letters that say: ''This is reference Black & should not be visible''. These letters have color of 16.16.16 while the pattern background is 1.1.1.


These letters are flashing to the latest Samsung's 2014 models I have checked unless you set your Sharpness at zero, which is the ideal setting to avoid there type of artifacts. Sharpness to 1, will show problem also.




(set the video to 1080p)

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post #3 of 14 Old 12-25-2014, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't see that text at a sharpness setting of 6 in CAL-NIGHT picture mode. I do see it at higher settings, though. Does that mean 6 is an acceptable setting (and possibly optimal)? My set is a 2012 EH series LED-LCD.

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post #4 of 14 Old 12-25-2014, 10:40 AM
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I always found those ones from the AVS/Mascior's disc unreliable and always stuck to Spears and Munsil.

Spears and Munsil popped up the most subtle wringing compared to the other discs.

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portf...-the-patterns/
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post #5 of 14 Old 12-25-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't see that text at a sharpness setting of 6 in CAL-NIGHT picture mode. I do see it at higher settings, though. Does that mean 6 is an acceptable setting (and possibly optimal)? My set is a 2012 EH series LED-LCD.


After having set your sharpness control; using the Advanced Sharpness Pattern; to the value where it prevents edge enhancement (halo/ringing effect) or soft contouring (blurring of the image details), move to the Advanced Brightness Pattern.

The text at the left side of the pattern is flashing every 2 seconds, like the flashing bars.

When you have set correctly your Black Level; where the 16 bar and below are invisible but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you have set correctly your Black Level; where the 16 bar and below are invisible but you still able to see the letters boarder ''This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each set, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible because they are not encoded in that pattern.

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post #6 of 14 Old 12-30-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I don't see that text at a sharpness setting of 6 in CAL-NIGHT picture mode. I do see it at higher settings, though. Does that mean 6 is an acceptable setting (and possibly optimal)? My set is a 2012 EH series LED-LCD.
Well, I checked things again on the Spears & Munsil Sharpness Pattern, Ted's Advanced Sharpness Pattern, and Ted's Brightness Flashing Bars. I ended up with a zero setting for sharpness since with the third pattern I could see hints of the digital 16 bar flashing at times (the bottom horizontal line part of the rectangular bar). It didn't show up with every flash of the bars but it did show every few seconds or so and lowering sharpness from 6 to zero pretty much got rid of it (or at least made it MUCH harder to see). This is all while inches from the display. I suspect if I set things from my viewing distance of 7 feet, I would end up setting things higher.
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post #7 of 14 Old 12-30-2014, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, it seems like the image is slightly sharper in Standard/CAL-NIGHT mode vs. Movie mode. Almost like sharpness zero in the former modes is equivalent to a (slightly) higher sharpness setting in the latter mode.

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post #8 of 14 Old 12-30-2014, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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One more thing I should add is with the two sharpness patterns mentioned above, it's still very hard to find a perfect setting since sharpness 0-5 or even 0-10 looks about the same and the pixel structure on my S-PVA LCD panel makes it hard to distinguish very minor EE from how the subpixels interact with the edges that are part of these test patterns themselves.

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post #9 of 14 Old 12-30-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Well, I checked things again on the Spears & Munsil Sharpness Pattern, Ted's Advanced Sharpness Pattern, and Ted's Brightness Flashing Bars. I ended up with a zero setting for sharpness since with the third pattern I could see hints of the digital 16 bar flashing at times (the bottom horizontal line part of the rectangular bar). It didn't show up with every flash of the bars but it did show every few seconds or so and lowering sharpness from 6 to zero pretty much got rid of it (or at least made it MUCH harder to see). This is all while inches from the display. I suspect if I set things from my viewing distance of 7 feet, I would end up setting things higher.
Hi, try to pause the pattern to see if the hints of 16 bar are visible in paused mode also, or it's something that the processing of this display is adding.

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post #10 of 14 Old 12-31-2014, 06:31 PM
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Bear in mind that most displays nowadays, including Samsungs, use subpixel addressing (similar to subpixel rendering) which may soften fine detail a bit.

Since there's so much variation in the way content is authored, I tend to adjust Sharpness by eye until the finest details in the video image look clear and well-defined, but not "edgy". The values can vary quite a bit depending on the resolution and type of content. The attached patterns might be useful for ballparking the Sharpness of 1080p content on some displays though.

Some displays apply more sharpening/EE in one direction (usually horizontal) than another. Ideally, the four gray squares in the center of the Sharpness patterns should be the same brightness. If the gray squares with vertical lines get brighter than the grays squares with horizontal lines when you raise the Sharpness control on your TV, that means your TV is applying more edge-enhancement in a horizontal direction. And you should probably adjust Sharpness until all four squares appear roughly the same brightness. Get as far away from your TV as possible (or take your glasses off, if you're near-sighted) when making these adjustments, to better assess/compare the overall brightness of the 4 squares.

Detail will look best on most TVs with no overscan btw. I've included a pattern for that as well. All three patterns should save as 1920x1080 resolution files.

Use these entirely at your own risk btw. I make no guarantees on them, express or implied.
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-01-2015, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Well, I checked things again on the Spears & Munsil Sharpness Pattern, Ted's Advanced Sharpness Pattern, and Ted's Brightness Flashing Bars. I ended up with a zero setting for sharpness since with the third pattern I could see hints of the digital 16 bar flashing at times (the bottom horizontal line part of the rectangular bar). It didn't show up with every flash of the bars but it did show every few seconds or so and lowering sharpness from 6 to zero pretty much got rid of it (or at least made it MUCH harder to see). This is all while inches from the display. I suspect if I set things from my viewing distance of 7 feet, I would end up setting things higher.
Hi, try to pause the pattern to see if the hints of 16 bar are visible in paused mode also, or it's something that the processing of this display is adding.
I did check that earlier and it did show up as a solid horizontal line at the bottom of the digital 16 bar. There might have been one at the top of the bar too but I didn't really check.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-04-2015, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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For a frame of reference, what is the range of sharpness settings used on samsung tvs by pro calibrators? Lowest to highest that doesn't result in visible edge enhancement from normal viewing distances and with typical viewing content like bd movies.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-04-2015, 03:29 PM
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On my plasma when abl is high/contrast ratio low it looks blurry ,and is more clear sharper when abl is low/contrast ratio higher.I notice sharpness/edge enhancement most when (example a black football jersey with white numbering).Game or pc mode at 50 would give some reference.Dynamic contrast gamma,white balance,room conditions effect the sharpness of the image.

My 3 cents

One guy on here said he contacted samsung and they said 20 was the off setting,although most calibrators have it set lower.Almost every setting on the tv can be changed slightly too improve it depending on the show.

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post #14 of 14 Old 03-09-2020, 02:58 AM
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Sorry to revive an old thread but, this is very similar to what I'm experiencing. It bugs me.

Basically have a Samsung Q60r and when I use the black clipping pattern on AVS HD, reference 16 is not visible at all even at max brightness, but, if I raise sharpness by 2 or more, its there and even bar 14.

What do I do. Leave sharpness at 0 or raise it a bit to be able to see 16 so I can make it dissappear? So confused.
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