The Official ChromaPure 3 thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 1778 Old 01-19-2016, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The madLevelsTweaker tool does not "install" on a computer, and certainly not by itself, as you make it sound. It's a very very simple portable tool which (when you change the checkbox and click "apply") just changes one registry value. Deleting the exe doesn't change anything. The proper way to undo the change is to run the tool again, toggle the check box and click "apply" again. That should revert the change. You could do the same thing with regedit yourself without using the tool. madLevelsTweaker just makes it more comfortable because it is able to automatically find the right registry path for the monitor you want to tweak (the registry often contains several monitors).

If you ran the tool on the wrong PC, or for the wrong monitor, that would probably classify as a simple user error. I mean what more can I do than let the tool's first text line say "Please move this window to the target monitor", and to show all the information I could find about the GPU and display you're about to tweak? Obviously the "target monitor" is the monitor you want to calibrate, so you have to run the tool on the PC which is physically connected to the display you want to calibrate, and if it's a multi-monitor setup you have to move the madLevelsTweaker window to the monitor you want to calibrate, before pressing "apply". I guess I could make the first text line of the tool's window bold and bright red and let it blink on and off to get your attention, but is that *really* necessary?
Madshi,

I'm not sure what happened. I apparently inadvertently ran another one of the files in the "madVR" pacankage. After I couldn't adjust scaling I ran the Windows task manager and another "mad" task was running. I killed that task, rebooted, but still could not adjust scaling. Finally, I rebuilt the OS to restore things to where they were before installing ChromaPure3. I am using Windows10, and the restore procedure seems to be different than Vista (which I am mos familiar with).

Tomorrow I'll go through this again and make sure that I only run madLevelsTweaker from the display being calibrated window.

Your comments raise another concern about my planned use of madLevelsTweaker: You mentioned potential registry entries for several monitors. I do some professional isf calibration work. If there is a registry entry for each different 2nd display that I calibrate using madLevelsTweaker will I run into problems down the road with multiple entries?

Thanks,

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post #302 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 01:36 AM
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The other "mad" process you saw probably was either madTPG.exe or madHcCtrl.exe. The first one is madVR's test pattern generator, which isn't used by ChromaPure yet (AFAIK). It can only be in the list of running processes if you manually started it. The 2nd one is managing the madVR tray icon symbol. It should only show up if you do video playback with madVR somehow, or if you started madTPG.exe, or if you started madHcCtrl.exe.

I'not sure what scaling has to do with any of this. Can you explain in more detail what you mean exactly with "scaling"? Do you mean some sort of scaling option in the GPU drivers? What options are there? Why do you want to change that option? And in which way did changing it not work, anymore?

About monitors: I think I've made an error is my description. After double checking I think that registry value is per GPU output and not per monitor. So probably connecting to different monitors will not make a difference. But I'm not 100% sure right now, so it might make sense to double check once or twice, when you connect to a different monitor, just to be safe.

You can also safely delete all madVR files except madLevelsTweaker.exe. None of the other files are needed. And as I said, the levels tweaker tool is very simple and portable, so you can move it anywhere you like, even run it from a USB stick or something.
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post #303 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The other "mad" process you saw probably was either madTPG.exe or madHcCtrl.exe. The first one is madVR's test pattern generator, which isn't used by ChromaPure yet (AFAIK). It can only be in the list of running processes if you manually started it. The 2nd one is managing the madVR tray icon symbol. It should only show up if you do video playback with madVR somehow, or if you started madTPG.exe, or if you started madHcCtrl.exe.
It's hard to tell. Unfortunately, I didn't write down what the process was. I just finished trying again and, this time, everything worked great. The only comment here is that "madLevelsTweaker" apparently impacts both displays (the computer monitor and the display under test). I obtained very good correlation between the ChromaPure3 Internal Patterns using "madLevelsTweaker" and my Accupel generator.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'not sure what scaling has to do with any of this. Can you explain in more detail what you mean exactly with "scaling"? Do you mean some sort of scaling option in the GPU drivers? What options are there? Why do you want to change that option? And in which way did changing it not work, anymore?
Yes, there is a problem that many users have reported here who have laptops with "high resolution" displays. In my case, it is a Asus laptop with a 1920 x 1080 display. Those experiencing the problem get a ChromaPure main screen missing ("cropped") some elements. In my case, the bottom two modules (reports & part of raw data) are missing as well as the "Settings" Link. The screen does not have any scrolling capability - so the user is stuck. Changing the resolution in the Display menu to another resolution (like 1366 x 768) does not solve the problem. What I found that worked (at least on Windows10) was to go to the "Advanced sizing of text and other items" link in the Advanced Display Settings menu. That area had a "Change size of items" area, and if you click the "set size of items" link you will find a scaling adjustment. Changing that setting to 100% (at least for my Asus) resolves the problem, and the full ChromaPure menu can be seen. I should mention, that there are several warnings that using this control may cause some applications to not function properly.

Basically, I need to use this setting in order to use ChromaPure.

The problem that I initially had when I used "madLevelsTweaker", was that this setting appeared to be locked at 100% - yet the ChromaPure screen was scaled improperly. Rebooting the computer did not change things (ChromaPure screen wrong, could not change scaling). I could not do anything to get back to normal. It was then that I used the Task Manager to discover that mysterious "mad" process. Stopping that process in the Task Manager and rebooting did not fix the problem. Finally, I rebuilt the OS and things restored to normal.

As I mentioned before, I am now convinced that I inadvertently kicked up some process from the "MadVR" folder that impacted this. Now that I have things running properly, I have deleted all MadVR items except the "madLevelsTweaker", which now works quite well with ChromaPure3.

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post #304 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
No, the display you are calibrating.
  1. Disconnect HTPC from Display (previously connected via HDMI)
  2. Connect Display to laptop with ChromaPure installed via HDMI
  3. Setup Display as an extended desktop for the laptop
  4. Run the tool on the laptop
  5. Perform calibration with internal pattern generator

I am just trying to simplify, so I fully understand. If I only had one HDMI connection in the TV, I would follow the steps above to calibrate the Display with the internal color patterns. Once my calibration is finalized and I remove the laptop and reconnect the HTPC, would I run the tool on the HTPC as well?


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post #305 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post
Yes, there is a problem that many users have reported here who have laptops with "high resolution" displays. In my case, it is a Asus laptop with a 1920 x 1080 display. Those experiencing the problem get a ChromaPure main screen missing ("cropped") some elements. In my case, the bottom two modules (reports & part of raw data) are missing as well as the "Settings" Link. The screen does not have any scrolling capability - so the user is stuck. Changing the resolution in the Display menu to another resolution (like 1366 x 768) does not solve the problem. What I found that worked (at least on Windows10) was to go to the "Advanced sizing of text and other items" link in the Advanced Display Settings menu. That area had a "Change size of items" area, and if you click the "set size of items" link you will find a scaling adjustment. Changing that setting to 100% (at least for my Asus) resolves the problem, and the full ChromaPure menu can be seen. I should mention, that there are several warnings that using this control may cause some applications to not function properly.
I just want to be really clear about this so there is no misunderstanding. The problem is not with high resolution displays per se. The problem is with the text scaling setting in Windows. That should ALWAYS be set to 100% to get CP to display properly. You can run CP on as high a resolution display as you want so long as the monitor is big enough. The problem arises when high rez is run on small monitors requiring the use of text scaling to be clearly visible. 1920 x 1080 looks great to me here, but I am viewing it on a 24" monitor, not a 14" or 15" laptop screen.

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post #306 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post
  1. Disconnect HTPC from Display (previously connected via HDMI)
  2. Connect Display to laptop with ChromaPure installed via HDMI
  3. Setup Display as an extended desktop for the laptop
  4. Run the tool on the laptop
  5. Perform calibration with internal pattern generator

I am just trying to simplify, so I fully understand. If I only had one HDMI connection in the TV, I would follow the steps above to calibrate the Display with the internal color patterns. Once my calibration is finalized and I remove the laptop and reconnect the HTPC, would I run the tool on the HTPC as well?
No. The tool is just for getting test patterns to display properly in CP.

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post #307 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
The box you are talking about is the internal test pattern generator. Make sure on the home page that you select the radio button next to the Lumagen if that is the signal generator you want to use. The manual control tool is linked on the Home page as well. Just click Manual Control above "Signal Generators."
Lumagen with Manual Control worked like a champ for touching up BT.1886 gamma. Very impressed with V3. I was able to dial in the gamma so my furthest away from actual was .02 and this was for only one instance. I ran the gamma readings 5-6 times just to make sure and it was very repeatable.
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post #308 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post
The problem that I initially had when I used "madLevelsTweaker", was that this setting appeared to be locked at 100%
I don't think any of the "mad" processes are likely to have anything to do with that. Those "mad" processes/dlls all have their specific purpose, but none of that is in anyway related to this screen DPI scaling setting you're referring to. So I've really no clue what happened there exactly.
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post #309 of 1778 Old 01-20-2016, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I just want to be really clear about this so there is no misunderstanding. The problem is not with high resolution displays per se. The problem is with the text scaling setting in Windows. That should ALWAYS be set to 100% to get CP to display properly. You can run CP on as high a resolution display as you want so long as the monitor is big enough. The problem arises when high rez is run on small monitors requiring the use of text scaling to be clearly visible. 1920 x 1080 looks great to me here, but I am viewing it on a 24" monitor, not a 14" or 15" laptop screen.
Exactly!

(But most calibrators don't lug a 24" monitor to a job - I simply made the mistake of purchasing new 15" laptop with an ipt high resolution screen that works perfectly fine with most all other applications.) Though it is a slight pain, the scaling "solution" + "madLevelsTweaker" is now fine. (much less pain than lugging a 24" monitor to the job site and cheaper than buying a laptop with a poorer display)

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post #310 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I just want to be really clear about this so there is no misunderstanding. The problem is not with high resolution displays per se. The problem is with the text scaling setting in Windows. That should ALWAYS be set to 100% to get CP to display properly. You can run CP on as high a resolution display as you want so long as the monitor is big enough. The problem arises when high rez is run on small monitors requiring the use of text scaling to be clearly visible. 1920 x 1080 looks great to me here, but I am viewing it on a 24" monitor, not a 14" or 15" laptop screen.
That's exactly the reason why a couple of years ago the concept of "device independent pixels" found its way into web development and application programming, e.g. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

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post #311 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 03:22 PM
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Extreme noob question here: anybody here familiar with the set of controls on a typical Samsung flat panel (my display is a Samsung PN51D7000 plasma)? When in the color management module of CP3 what specific control on the Samsung do I use to adjust the individual primary and secondary colors? My set has RGB gain and RGB offset controls but aren't those used specifically for adjusting only the white balance? TIA...

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post #312 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 03:29 PM
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Hello Rick,

You'll want to read through this:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322

That will cover the basics of calibration.
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post #313 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 04:43 PM
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Hello Rick,

You'll want to read through this:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322

That will cover the basics of calibration.

I did read that tutorial and that is why I am asking my question....Curt didn't really specify which control one should use when he is describing the color management module near the end of his article.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post
Extreme noob question here: anybody here familiar with the set of controls on a typical Samsung flat panel (my display is a Samsung PN51D7000 plasma)? When in the color management module of CP3 what specific control on the Samsung do I use to adjust the individual primary and secondary colors? My set has RGB gain and RGB offset controls but aren't those used specifically for adjusting only the white balance? TIA...


Advance menu>Color Space>Custom mode
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post #315 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 05:07 PM
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Advance menu>Color Space>Custom mode
Thank you!
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post #316 of 1778 Old 01-21-2016, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you!
Ordinarily, you would select RGB as the color space in ChromaPure's Color Management module while making adjustments to a Samsung. However, there is currently a bug in the RGB color space adjustment. As a temporary workaround, use the HSL color space and pay close attention to the CIE chart. The CIE chart will show hue and saturation targets and the Lightness error bar will show the rest.

  • To adjust primary saturation add equal amounts of the other two primaries to a color (e.g., add green and blue to red).
  • To adjust primary hue, add unequal amounts of the other two primaries to a color.
  • To adjust primary lightness, add/subtract the color to itself (e.g., add/subtract red to/from red).
  • To adjust secondary saturation, add the opposing primary (e.g., add red to desaturate cyan).
  • To adjust secondary hue, add unequal amounts of the contributing primaries (e.g., adjust red and green to change yellow hue).
  • To adjust secondary lightness, add/subtract equal amounts of the contributing primaries. (e.g., adjust red and green to change yellow lightness).
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post #317 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Ordinarily, you would select RGB as the color space in ChromaPure's Color Management module while making adjustments to a Samsung. However, there is currently a bug in the RGB color space adjustment. As a temporary workaround, use the HSL color space and pay close attention to the CIE chart. The CIE chart will show hue and saturation targets and the Lightness error bar will show the rest.
Tom,

I´ve just bought my first LG panel, a 60UF855V (EU model). I won´t set it up until April/May, but I´ve seen from reviews that the CMS controls are named Saturation, Tint and Luminance. Which color space setting in the Color Management modul should be used for LG panels, HSL?

Ole
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post #318 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by owtuv View Post
Tom,

I´ve just bought my first LG panel, a 60UF855V (EU model). I won´t set it up until April/May, but I´ve seen from reviews that the CMS controls are named Saturation, Tint and Luminance. Which color space setting in the Color Management modul should be used for LG panels, HSL?

Ole
Yes. Hue = Tint

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post #319 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Ordinarily, you would select RGB as the color space in ChromaPure's Color Management module while making adjustments to a Samsung. However, there is currently a bug in the RGB color space adjustment. As a temporary workaround, use the HSL color space and pay close attention to the CIE chart. The CIE chart will show hue and saturation targets and the Lightness error bar will show [/LIST]
Thanks Tom....is the RGB bug referenced above only in CP version 3 or is it in version 2 as well?

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post #320 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tom....is the RGB bug referenced above only in CP version 3 or is it in version 2 as well?
Just v3, but it will be fixed very shortly.

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post #321 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by owtuv View Post
Tom,

I´ve just bought my first LG panel, a 60UF855V (EU model). I won´t set it up until April/May, but I´ve seen from reviews that the CMS controls are named Saturation, Tint and Luminance. Which color space setting in the Color Management modul should be used for LG panels, HSL?

Ole
BTW, the Color Management tools in my LG OLED don't work. Beware.

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post #322 of 1778 Old 01-22-2016, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
BTW, the Color Management tools in my LG OLED don't work. Beware.
True with my LG 55EF9500. These controls need to be used VERY judicially. Fortunately, my particular display was very good as it came from the factory, but the few short comings were only rectified externally with a 3D LUT processor.

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post #323 of 1778 Old 01-23-2016, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
BTW, the Color Management tools in my LG OLED don't work. Beware.
Thanks for the tip. My 60UF855V is a LED panel, but I guess the CMS is the same?
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post #324 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 07:46 AM
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Cal 75% Saturation points

Hey Tom,
How do I calibrate the 75% Saturation points rather than the 100%?
Do I select the color space of 75% of Rec 709 and then proceed as normal? If so I assume I would still take a 100% intensity white reading - correct?
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post #325 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 07:58 AM
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Hey Tom,
How do I calibrate the 75% Saturation points rather than the 100%?
Do I select the color space of 75% of Rec 709 and then proceed as normal? If so I assume I would still take a 100% intensity white reading - correct?
Hi, in CP3 it will always need a 100% White reading before any measurement run.

You can use the Color Management Module to perform 75% of REC.709 calibration.

Before starting the measurement be sure that is selected @ Application Settings -> Gamut -> Reference Gamut -> 75% of REC.709

About Intensity, this can be selectable in Home -> Signal Generators -> Internsity: 100% or 75%.

75% Intensity selection will require 100% White measurement first.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration S/W: LightSpace ZRO / HCFR
S/W: ColourSpace INF, LightSpace XTP, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, ChromaPure
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box P/G: Murideo Six-G, DVDO AVLab TPG
Meter: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A
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post #326 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, in CP3 it will always need a 100% White reading before any measurement run.

You can use the Color Management Module to perform 75% of REC.709 calibration.

Before starting the measurement be sure that is selected @ Application Settings -> Gamut -> Reference Gamut -> 75% of REC.709

About Intensity, this can be selectable in Home -> Signal Generators -> Internsity: 100% or 75%.

75% Intensity selection will require 100% White measurement first.
Thanks Ted. I really like V3, but still learning all the capabilities.
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post #327 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 11:57 AM
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Is there a way to not have V3 take a black measurement in every automated grayscale run? For those like me who occasionally use their spectros for everything (not just meter profiling) that could save 2 or 3 minutes of wasted time per run. I would hope the 5% step would be optional as well for the same reason.

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post #328 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Is there a way to not have V3 take a black measurement in every automated grayscale run? For those like me who occasionally use their spectros for everything (not just meter profiling) that could save 2 or 3 minutes of wasted time per run. I would hope the 5% step would be optional as well for the same reason.
Hi Chad,

+1.

It will be good if Tom can add a selection of 11-Point (without 5% Step) and 10-Point (without 0%, 5%) to the available Grayscale runs.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration S/W: LightSpace ZRO / HCFR
S/W: ColourSpace INF, LightSpace XTP, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, ChromaPure
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box P/G: Murideo Six-G, DVDO AVLab TPG
Meter: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 01-25-2016 at 02:23 PM.
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post #329 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Is there a way to not have V3 take a black measurement in every automated grayscale run? For those like me who occasionally use their spectros for everything (not just meter profiling) that could save 2 or 3 minutes of wasted time per run. I would hope the 5% step would be optional as well for the same reason.
Sure.

Measure 100% manually "M"
Select 10% or whatever you want to be next
Measure with auto "A"
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post #330 of 1778 Old 01-25-2016, 02:43 PM
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Sure.

Measure 100% manually "M"
Select 10% or whatever you want to be next
Measure with auto "A"
Buzz, if you do this (select White and then 10%), the ''A'' will measure 90% Gray 4 times in the raw.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration S/W: LightSpace ZRO / HCFR
S/W: ColourSpace INF, LightSpace XTP, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, ChromaPure
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box P/G: Murideo Six-G, DVDO AVLab TPG
Meter: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A
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