The Official ChromaPure 3 thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 1727 Old 12-02-2018, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Dont' Use LG Color Management

I learned the hard way on my 2016 LG OLED.



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post #1592 of 1727 Old 12-16-2018, 10:23 PM
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What the problem If I calibrated LG OLED (FHD) setting the back light (Oled light) to maximum and lower the contrast? (in my case to get (120 cd/m2) the values are: Oled light: 82, Contrast: 56)

I always heard its not recommended this but doing so I found the picture quality much better, its fuller and the colors more like 4k. Does this affect negatively the dynamic range or something else? Thanks!

Last edited by Knight7m; 12-17-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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post #1593 of 1727 Old 12-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Knight7m View Post
What the problem If I calibrated LG OLED (FHD) setting the back light (Oled light) to maximum and lower the contrast? (in my case to get (120 cd/m2) the values are: Oled light: 82, Contrast: 56)

I always heard its not recommended this but doing so I found the picture quality much better, its fuller and the colors more like 4k. Does this affect negatively the dynamic range or something else? Thanks!
I have done that test and the image will become very flat/dull when you will reduce a lot the contrast slider.

The OLED Light in 2016 models controls both ABL + output levels. So if you have high OLED Light setting, your ABL is less. But when you reduce contrast slider, it will degrade the image when you will check some real movie content, while the charts will be very good.

After a lot of testing, the picture will look better with setting normally the contrast (preventing clipping of headroom) having a value between 83-85 usually.

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post #1594 of 1727 Old 12-31-2018, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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ChromaPure 3.1.16 Released

ChromaPure 3.1.16 is now available for download from our News page. It is free for licensed users.


This release adds French language support. (Additional languages will be added in subsequent releases.)
This release no longer uses a configuration file. Instead we have implemented a database. This should result in considerably better reliability, since many of our problems resulted from corruption of the configuration file.

NOTE: Because of this change, the Repair Settings button no longer functions. We will decide what to do with it in the next release.

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post #1595 of 1727 Old 12-31-2018, 06:03 PM
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The link does not open, Tom. Went to the Chromapure site and downloaded from there.
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post #1596 of 1727 Old 12-31-2018, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The link does not open, Tom. Went to the Chromapure site and downloaded from there.
Sorry, I typed new-news, rather than news-new. I fixed it.

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post #1597 of 1727 Old 12-31-2018, 08:59 PM
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Looks good Tom. The Grayscale target line is still blue though. Also, for printing, I find the light-gray background (of the gamma charts) much better than the blue gradient. Wish all the charts were light-gray.
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post #1598 of 1727 Old 01-01-2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
I have done that test and the image will become very flat/dull when you will reduce a lot the contrast slider.

The OLED Light in 2016 models controls both ABL + output levels. So if you have high OLED Light setting, your ABL is less. But when you reduce contrast slider, it will degrade the image when you will check some real movie content, while the charts will be very good.

After a lot of testing, the picture will look better with setting normally the contrast (preventing clipping of headroom) having a value between 83-85 usually.
In my settings the picture is not flat but strong contrast. But I'm using 1886 gamma I forget mention this, I wonder if 1886 cause strong contrast and may require adjusting Oled light.
Is there in CP3 test pattern to judge if picture is flat or not, or can calibrate Oled light? Is Stimulate contrast pattern can help. Thanks!

Last edited by Knight7m; 01-02-2019 at 09:24 AM.
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post #1599 of 1727 Old 01-01-2019, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight7m View Post
In my settings the picture is not flat but strong contrast. But I'm using 1886 gamma I forget mention this, I wonder if 1886 cause strong contrast and may require adjusting Oled light. Is there in CP3 test pattern to judge if picture is flat or not, or can calibrate Oled light? Is Stimulate contrast pattern can help. Thanks!
BT.1886 when you have zero black (OLED) it has the exact same luma targets as Power Law Gamma 2.4

I have checked many content between these 2 calibration approaches (normal contrast ''84-85'' with low OLED light vs. low contrast with OLED Light 100) via 3D LUT and classic approach (with contrast 84/85) looks visually better.

The post measurements where exact the same between the 2x 3D LUT's, so visually its the only difference.

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post #1600 of 1727 Old 01-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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iPad and Chromapure!

I own Chromapure and run it on my laptop via the Windows operating system, it’s a pain using Microsoft operating systems as the laptop is so slow to startup when compared to using the Apple iPad.

My question is, can you adapt the software to run on an iPad, I am sure an adaptor could be used to connect the meter, the thing about iPads are they are very portable in nature too and the world seems to be turning away from PC’s and laptop computers and more people are using their phones and iPads, many of which can be classed as just powerful computers at their core.

It would be great to have a way to calibrate displays and run Chromapure off my iPad, i hope there is a consideration for doing this, maybe not now, but sometime in the future.

Thanks for listening.
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hi guys, i m using chromapure 3 with i1d3 to calibrate my projectors, i m getting different results when using built in generator compared to madVR TPG , which one is more accurate to use, my video settings are 0-255 in madvr output and same in nvidia settings and matched on the projector.

thank you.

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post #1602 of 1727 Old 01-17-2019, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
hi guys, i m using chromapure 3 with i1d3 to calibrate my projectors, i m getting different results when using built in generator compared to madVR TPG , which one is more accurate to use, my video settings are 0-255 in madvr output and same in nvidia settings and matched on the projector.

thank you.

Hi, If you are watching your movies from inside a software player with madVR as rendered then the most correct way it will be the patch generation using madVR software generator, since you want your colors to be accurate from inside the player you will playback your movies later (full video processing chain calibration).

But check your black/white levels also using some patterns for contrast/brightness to confirm that you have same levels from both (generator/software player). See if the issue you see is related with level mismatch (Video Legal vs. PC Levels).

All HTPC software players are expanding by default the video signal (patterns/movies are encoded for video levels aka 16-235) to data signal (PC's are using aka 0-255), so when they are expanding... all levels 1-16 are becoming 0 and all levels 235-254 are becoming 255.

When you have a HTPC and you need to have the most accurate output settings, you need to create 2 presets to your projector, to do one calibration for video levels and one for PC levels.

Always you need to have your output set to RGB-Full (PC levels) for each configuration, because any other settings will not be good, RGB-Video (16-235) output will compress your levels and its unknown if the YCbCr output is correct since there no way to know what encoding matrix your VideoCard is using when its converting RGB to YCbCr.

Basically YCbCr is always only video levels, and for different colorspace (REC.709 for example) you need specific matrix for the conversion (for RGB-Video to YCbCr REC.709). To avoid any issue you will use RGB-Full to be sure that nothing will be altered by your video card. Also to be sure that any ICC or active VCGT will not alter your output, you have to reset your output (see instructions @ 4) there) and disable any loaded ICC.

Ideally for Movie playback you will need video levels calibration since the content mastered for video levels, so you have to set your VGA output as RGB-Full, your software movie player to RGB-Video (in your case madVR 16-235) and your projector to receive RGB-Video.

This is the most accurate way, since you will not expand any content levels and you will leave headroom for all levels above 235, do if you display a contrast pattern (for video levels) it will not clip, and it will show you all levels above 235. (when you will set correctly your contrast setting of your projector)

You can see why you need to leave 'headroom' there, some picture examples of 'out of video legal range values' using a latest popular movie, see there.

If you expand to 0-255 the movie (RGB 0-255 / video playback software (madVR to your application 0-255 / Display set to full range), you don't leave any headroom, you clip everything above 235, but colorspace conversion can have values outside video legal range, so it's a better idea to leave headroom, to prevent issues.

While above setting will be good for your movie from inside your software movie player, it will not be good for web/stuff, games which require PC Levels calibration, for that reason you will calibrate (without changing any of your PC settings) a different picture mode to your projector, for PC level calibration.

For that calibration you can use still images for PC levels, set your display/projector to expect PC levels to its input.

So when you will want to watch a movie you will select from your projector the movie preset and when you want desktop stuff you will select the PC desktop preset.

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post #1603 of 1727 Old 01-22-2019, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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can you adapt the software to run on an iPad
Unless Microsoft provides some sort of conversion utility, what you are suggesting would basically require us to rewrite the software from scratch. This is just not feasible. ChromaPure will run fine on macOS using PC-emulation software. However, as far as I know there is no PC emulator for iOS. Even Mac applications won't run on iOS.

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post #1604 of 1727 Old 01-22-2019, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
hi guys, i m using chromapure 3 with i1d3 to calibrate my projectors, i m getting different results when using built in generator compared to madVR TPG , which one is more accurate to use, my video settings are 0-255 in madvr output and same in nvidia settings and matched on the projector.
I just tested this and I am getting the same results. I'll look into the madvr issue and get back to you. For the time being, use the ChromaPure built-in test patterns. I verified that it is putting out the correct levels.

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post #1605 of 1727 Old 01-25-2019, 07:49 AM
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Tom,

I got two questions.

1. CP3 will support BT.2390?

2. CP3 can support Dolby Vision if Murideo Six-G is used as signal generator?

Thanks.
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post #1606 of 1727 Old 01-31-2019, 10:16 AM
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Glad I found this thread!

I have a couple of quick questions that the more experienced members could (hopefully) help me with.

My equipment:

Sony 885es
panasonic ub820
135 cima neve 16x9 screen
chromapure 3
x-rite i1display pro
chromapure blu ray disc for patterns
masciola uhd disc for hdr patterns

I am working on calibrating sdr2020. After going through the gamma, grayscale, and gamut workflow calibrations, I noticed when setting contrast that the white lines are pinkish in color. Does this mean I messed up on my grayscale calibration? Too much red maybe?

I also find it impossible to fully correct some of the gamut saturations when calibrating for bt2020 in HDR or SDR. Is this just a limitation of projectors for bt2020, or maybe a user error on my part ( I used the chromapure bluray 75% patterns for gamut with my sony 885 in bt2020 mode, shooting for gamma 2.3)?

Thanks for any suggestions!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrinegar View Post

I am working on calibrating sdr2020. After going through the gamma, grayscale, and gamut workflow calibrations, I noticed when setting contrast that the white lines are pinkish in color. Does this mean I messed up on my grayscale calibration? Too much red maybe?

Did the pinkish colour appear only after calibration? Usually reducing the contrast a bit will eliminate it.

Did you increase any of the RGB Gains during calibration?
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post #1608 of 1727 Old 01-31-2019, 10:51 AM
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Did the pinkish colour appear only after calibration? Usually reducing the contrast a bit will eliminate it.

Did you increase any of the RGB Gains during calibration?
Thanks Dominic-

Yes, it appeared after calibration. I did increase the red gain quite a bit to get the three colors even on my grayscale adjustments. It had a lot of blue at first and not enough red. Playing around with the Red gain while looking at the contrast patterns, the pinkish does appear to disappear/go back to gray when I reduce the red gain.

I guess that means I need to redo my grayscale, but try to do it with less red gain this time?

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Thanks Dominic-

Yes, it appeared after calibration. I did increase the red gain quite a bit to get the three colors even on my grayscale adjustments. It had a lot of blue at first and not enough red. Playing around with the Red gain while looking at the contrast patterns, the pinkish does appear to disappear/go back to gray when I reduce the red gain.

I guess that means I need to redo my grayscale, but try to do it with less red gain this time?
What colour temperature preset did you use? If there’s a lot of blue you should switch to a warmer colour temperature prior to running the calibration.
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post #1610 of 1727 Old 01-31-2019, 12:20 PM
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What colour temperature preset did you use? If there’s a lot of blue you should switch to a warmer colour temperature prior to running the calibration.
I used the Reference preset and D65. But I can try to change it up to see if any look better. Ill also try reducing contrast as well. Thanks for the advice Dom!

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I used the Reference preset and D65. But I can try to change it up to see if any look better. Ill also try reducing contrast as well. Thanks for the advice Dom!
Pick the one that measures closest to D65, which is not necessarily the one that says D65.
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post #1612 of 1727 Old 02-01-2019, 08:56 AM
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Bt2020

Hi,

What is the easiest way to calibrate/check BT2020 using ChromaPure? I usually use the internal slides, can I continue to do that? If so do I need my computer to somehow output to the BT2020 colorspace or is the RGB full range still OK?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrinegar View Post
I am working on calibrating sdr2020. After going through the gamma, grayscale, and gamut workflow calibrations, I noticed when setting contrast that the white lines are pinkish in color. Does this mean I messed up on my grayscale calibration? Too much red maybe?
Hi, colorspace targets for SDR is REC.709 and for HDR10 is REC.2020.

There no exist commercial 4K movies which are REC.2020 SDR, all non-HDR titles exist in 4K disk market are all 4K SDR REC.709 10bit.

If you see color shades to your contrast patterns, this can mean that you have contrast too high or RGB balance settings of your top end have affect your headroom (above 235 flashing bar).

You can see why you need to leave 'headroom' there, some picture examples of 'out of video legal range values' using a latest popular movie, see there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrinegar View Post
I also find it impossible to fully correct some of the gamut saturations when calibrating for bt2020 in HDR or SDR. Is this just a limitation of projectors for bt2020, or maybe a user error on my part ( I used the chromapure bluray 75% patterns for gamut with my sony 885 in bt2020 mode, shooting for gamma 2.3)?
With SDR REC.709 patterns disk you can't check or calibrate for SDR REC.2020 because encoding matrix of YCbCr REC.709 (of SDR disk) vs. YCbCr REC.2020 (of HDR disk) is very different.

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post #1614 of 1727 Old 02-05-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chadwick537 View Post
Hi,

What is the easiest way to calibrate/check BT2020 using ChromaPure? I usually use the internal slides, can I continue to do that? If so do I need my computer to somehow output to the BT2020 colorspace or is the RGB full range still OK?
Hi, you will need to trigger your display HDR10 mode, but you will need a bit-perfect PC output if you want to use your PC as software generator, to be able to generate bit-perfect RGB-Video triplets (with your PC to output RGB-Full and your TV to expect RGB-Video Levels). In that case your software player should not expand video to PC levels, to have levels matching between HDR10 movie playback and HDR10 software patch generation.

You can trigger HDR10 mode of a display is you have Video Card with HDMI 2.0a which can send Metadata/AVI infoframe, using propably ChromaPure 3 and MadVR.

See ChromaPure 3.1.5 Release Notes there: http://chromapure.com/news-new.asp

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, colorspace targets for SDR is REC.709 and for HDR10 is REC.2020.

There no exist commercial 4K movies which are REC.2020 SDR, all non-HDR titles exist in 4K disk market are all 4K SDR REC.709 10bit.
Hi Ted,

While it’s true that are no commercial “SDR2020” movies, there are many people (in particular projector users) who use UHD BluRay players such as the Panasonic UB820 for HDR tone mapping, and the player “converts” the video to SDR gamma (2.2 or 2.4) while keeping the colour space at REC.2020 to provide the wide gamut.

In such cases the display will indeed need to be calibrated for SDR2020.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Did the pinkish colour appear only after calibration? Usually reducing the contrast a bit will eliminate it.

Did you increase any of the RGB Gains during calibration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, colorspace targets for SDR is REC.709 and for HDR10 is REC.2020.

There no exist commercial 4K movies which are REC.2020 SDR, all non-HDR titles exist in 4K disk market are all 4K SDR REC.709 10bit.

If you see color shades to your contrast patterns, this can mean that you have contrast too high or RGB balance settings of your top end have affect your headroom (above 235 flashing bar).

You can see why you need to leave 'headroom' there, some picture examples of 'out of video legal range values' using a latest popular movie, see there.



With SDR REC.709 patterns disk you can't check or calibrate for SDR REC.2020 because encoding matrix of YCbCr REC.709 (of SDR disk) vs. YCbCr REC.2020 (of HDR disk) is very different.
Thank you! I did have the contrast turned up too high. Rookie mistake.

I think Ive got the SDR2020 calibration where I like it (Tom helped me via email)

Thanks again!

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post #1617 of 1727 Old 02-06-2019, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Hi Ted,

While it’s true that are no commercial “SDR2020” movies, there are many people (in particular projector users) who use UHD BluRay players such as the Panasonic UB820 for HDR tone mapping, and the player “converts” the video to SDR gamma (2.2 or 2.4) while keeping the colour space at REC.2020 to provide the wide gamut.

In such cases the display will indeed need to be calibrated for SDR2020.
In that case, the user has to display HDR10 REC.2020 patterns from the Panasonic with that feature enabled and then calibrate using SDR REC.2020 and gamma based targets.
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post #1618 of 1727 Old 03-19-2019, 09:31 AM
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Given Spectracal has decided to drop Home Enthusiast, I'm now left considering other options.... So, one consideration is to switch to Chromapure, although Tom tells me the meter I have, the C6HDR 2000, is not supported. Anyone know if there is any sort of hack available that would make this possible? I really don't want have to sell this thing at a loss and buy an i1 Pro if I can avoid it. I know there's a different .dll or something available for this meter and Lightspace, wondering if something similar exists for Chromapure. Thanks.

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post #1619 of 1727 Old 03-19-2019, 02:28 PM
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@TomHuffman ; do you think the gamut reporting is giving good information in this case? It is reporting a gamut of >110% of REC709 but it's quite clearly not even hitting REC709. Does it really need qualifying a bit more what this is?


The presentation leads to discussions of this particular display covering more than REC709; and while true in some directions it doesn't actually cover all of REC709 (at least, not as measured here). Surely it would make more sense to report the size of the intersecting gamut in any case where there are target gamut primaries are not all achieved by the display. Otherwise there are all kinds of bogus gamuts we could dream up that would look like >100% REC709 by this measure, but be pretty dreadful.
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post #1620 of 1727 Old 03-19-2019, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
@TomHuffman ; do you think the gamut reporting is giving good information in this case? It is reporting a gamut of >110% of REC709 but it's quite clearly not even hitting REC709. Does it really need qualifying a bit more what this is?


The presentation leads to discussions of this particular display covering more than REC709; and while true in some directions it doesn't actually cover all of REC709 (at least, not as measured here). Surely it would make more sense to report the size of the intersecting gamut in any case where there are target gamut primaries are not all achieved by the display. Otherwise there are all kinds of bogus gamuts we could dream up that would look like >100% REC709 by this measure, but be pretty dreadful.
“111% of Rec. 709” is definitely misleading, and would be false advertising if claimed by the display manufacturer. To me it would only make sense to report the “intersecting gamut”. The fact that it exceeds Rec. 709 in some directions is already acknowledged in the “% of DCI-P3” and “% of Rec. 2020” figures.
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