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post #241 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
I'm sorry my comments obvisouly p***** you off. That wasn't my intention. I'm happy to provide more feedback but right now I don't feel that you're really open to discussing UX design (which is partly my profession). Furthermore I don't think you're willing to completely redesign your software and do UX testing.
Again, you are authoritatively discussing my mental state. I want feedback. I even want negative feedback, so long as it is constructive. But simply reporting that your experience has been frustrating and that you would not recommend the product to anyone without any specifics whatever, other than some generalization about text icons, which doesn't even seem to be true at least with major business applications, what exactly am I supposed to do to reduce your frustration?

What annoyed me about your comment was the bizarre suggestion that I designed the UI to make myself feel better rather than for the customer's benefit. This is not "feedback". It is venting. I trust that you appreciate the difference.

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post #242 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
So maybe they are not immutable conventions after all, but just what you happen to like.
Never said they were not immutable. They change over time and quite dramatically so. I agree that partly it's just makeup but most fundamentally it's about people being able to understand what something is doing by just looking at it. Hard to do and often even not entirely possible but this is what good design is all about.
Icons without labels is just one example. If the user sees an icon he knows then you don't need to label it. If the icon has to be considered unknow then you need to label it. That's what UX testing is for.

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post #243 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom I am a longtime CP user and always appreciate your help. No need to snap at people who invest in you.
Greg, I know that. I snapped at you because of your utterly useless post that did nothing but vent negativity without offering even ONE positive suggestion.

The one comment I recall you making during beta testing was that you wanted the application settings to be accessible from the main interface, rather than from just within the modules. We did that, specifically because of your comment.

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post #244 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Again, you are authoritatively discussing my mental state. I want feedback. I even want negative feedback, so long as it is constructive. But simply reporting that your experience has been frustrating and that you would not recommend the product to anyone without any specifics whatever, other than some generalization about text icons, which doesn't even seem to be true at least with major business applications, what exactly am I supposed to do to reduce your frustration.
Again, I'm happy to provide detailed feedback but all you've done so far is to brush off any criticism. Not necessarily a good starting point for a meaningful discussion.

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What annoyed me about your comment was the bizarre suggestion that I designed the UI to make myself feel better rather than for the customer's benefit. This is not "feedback". It is venting. I trust that you appreciate the difference.
Not what I've said. You made the UI that way because YOU thought that you know what is considered better by you users. I'm just telling you – as a user – that you've missed your goal.

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post #245 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Again, I'm happy to provide detailed feedback but all you've done so far is to brush off any criticism. Not necessarily a good starting point for a meaningful discussion.

Not what I've said. You made the UI that way because YOU thought that you know what is considered better by you users. I'm just telling you – as a user – that you've missed your goal.
No? I quote:

"Such somments [sic] make me think you designed the UI for your needs but not for the needs of your customers."

I may not be the smartest guy on the planet, but you don't have to be a genius to grasp the meaning of this comment. I propose that most people would find this comment unhelpful and insulting. Maybe you didn't mean it, but I am not a mind reader. OF COURSE, I designed the UI because it was what I thought was best for my users. What other target audience would you have in mind?

This is really frustrating. I haven't "brush[ed] off any criticism." The fact is that you have offered virtually no criticism for me to brush off other than the icon-with-text comment. I specifically conceded your point about the scaling graphics. If you want to offer specific suggestions, then I would like to hear them. That doesn't mean I will necessarily always agree, but I am interested in helpful feedback.

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post #246 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Greg, I know that. I snapped at you because of your utterly useless post that did nothing but vent negativity without offering even ONE positive suggestion.

The one comment I recall you making during beta testing was that you wanted the application settings to be accessible from the main interface, rather than from just within the modules. We did that, specifically because of your comment.
Tom, for me, and perhaps for others, the beta program went silent sometime in April...I didn't get a group email, nor saw anything after than. I certainly would have provided feedback much earlier.

While I'm not officially a UI designer, I've done lots of non-functioning mockups in Photoshop side by side with a development team, who then implement the ideas. It's cheap and easy to do, you can have lots of variations before committing to hard coding, and you can even get feedback from beta testers quickly and early.

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post #247 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Something I should have made explicit in the documentation, but did not is the following:

DO NOT use the 75% of Rec. 709 reference gamut for anything other than calibration from within the Color Management module. Once you have finished there, immediately revert back to Rec. 709 for all other measurements, adjustments, and reporting.

75% of Rec. 709 is not a real gamut. It is a pseudo-gamut that has a very limited purpose.

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post #248 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
No? I quote:

"Such somments [sic] make me think you designed the UI for your needs but not for the needs of your customers."

I may not be the smartest guy on the planet, but you don't have to be a genius to grasp the meaning of this comment. I propose that most people would find this comment unhelpful and insulting. Maybe you didn't mean it, but I am not a mind reader. OF COURSE, I designed the UI because it was what I thought was best for my users. What other target audience would you have in mind?

This is really frustrating. I haven't "brush[ed] off any criticism." The fact is that you have offered virtually no criticism for me to brush off other than the icon-with-text comment. I specifically conceded your point about the scaling graphics. If you want to offer specific suggestions, then I would like to hear them. That doesn't mean I will necessarily always agree, but I am interested in helpful feedback.
In the context of software design "your needs" can include "what you think others need". It's not meant to be an insulting remark. I just said that you obviously didn't hit the needs of some customers. You did not think or know about the needs of those. Maybe you did and you just don't care?

Right now you seem to take all of this as a personal attack when in fact it's not. In any case this discussion leads nowhere. I'm out of here.

Markus

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post #249 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 06:29 AM
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Caveat: I was a CP3 beta tester so I knew what to expect when the program was released.


I find CP3 much more efficient than CP2. Abilities such as the importing and exporting of Meter Correction measurements are a tremendous convenience. The left side icons in CP3 are in approximately the same order as CP2 and are the same as the tiny icons in CP2 sans text. They represent a standard calibration work flow and make perfect sense to me. I see no source of difficulty for those who know how to calibrate in the first place. For those who don't, there are many learning sources and time and effort must be expended. There is no easy path but present and future CP3 videos will be an aid. Even with basic calibration knowledge, after calibrating one display using CP3, subsequent calibrations should be relatively easy.


For you UI experts, sketch what a calibration program should look like and post a picture? I'd like to see it, and I'd like to know how it will make me a better calibrator.
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post #250 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 06:45 AM
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I think we had enough of the UI design discussions for the day...let's move on. For me and possibly others as well, I just want what's best for the CP Programme development, hence the critical comments. Let's focus on the software part of things instead and leave the design in the good hands of the creator himself. I would rather have a good and accurate calibration for my display...everything else is just secondary at this point.


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post #251 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Caveat: I was a CP3 beta tester so I knew what to expect when the program was released.


I find CP3 much more efficient than CP2. Abilities such as the importing and exporting of Meter Correction measurements are a tremendous convenience. The left side icons in CP3 are in approximately the same order as CP2 and are the same as the tiny icons in CP2 sans text. They represent a standard calibration work flow and make perfect sense to me. I see no source of difficulty for those who know how to calibrate in the first place.
Probably true but the target audience isn't just people that a) know CP2 and b) know how to calibrate. Or maybe it is?

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For those who don't, there are many learning sources and time and effort must be expended. There is no easy path but present and future CP3 videos will be an aid. Even with basic calibration knowledge, after calibrating one display using CP3, subsequent calibrations should be relatively easy.
If you know what to do then everything will be easy but some people don't calibrate displays on a regular basis nor are they experts in screen calibration. A good UI can help a lot. It also can considerably reduce the number of support requests.

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For you UI experts, sketch what a calibration program should look like and post a picture? I'd like to see it, and I'd like to know how it will make me a better calibrator.
It probably won't. But if that's the only criteria then a command line tool would suffice.

Markus

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post #252 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 08:51 AM
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Oh man, this UI discussion really blew up since I first mentioned it. Okay, Tom, I want you to know that I really respect your skill as a software designer, and you make a good product, but I agree with others that you could be taking this a little personal. Granted, I don't believe some of the other comments are particularly helpful, especially those that compare this to a school project or the like, but I think the spirit is there.

I'm reading your list of items, and I think you could be confusing features with UI. When you say things like "user-adjustable gamma is now system wide," and "grayscale and gamma each now allow user-selectable dynamic range," to me, those are features, not UI. They could also be done with an INI file, and while it would be horrific UI, the feature would still be there. I don't think many here are complaining about features (those are obviously pretty well done), but rather how they were implemented.

Full disclosure that I'm not a designer at all. In fact, I have very limited creative skills, and CP 3 is better than anything I could ever make. In addition, I'm a total novice at calibration, so some of my suggestions may be off the rails, in which case you are free to tell me that I'm an idiot, and I promise I won't take it personally. Still, Tom seems to be looking for suggestions he can actually use, so let me take a stab at this:

  • Asking people to make changes to their screen resolution and change DPI scaling settings in compatibility mode is probably a tough sell in 2016. The product is built on .NET, right? I assume the framework offers some way of working around this, albeit I do not know how to do it.
  • The obvious challenge in the product is the lack of horizontal screen real estate to put everything that you want on the screen at once. Obviously, you went to icons to try to free that up somewhat, but I do not know if that was the best decision. For instance, there is now this one icon at the very bottom that looks grayed out to me. Is it AutoCal? Something I'm not licensed for? Something that needs enabled somewhere else? I really don't know. There is no tooltip, so I just have to assume it's something that isn't for me. Also, why it is resizable to the right? That really doesn't make any sense to me. Why would I ever want to have a large amount of blank gray space in that window?
  • Regarding icons, it sounds like you considered a fly-in menu (hopefully with words), and I think that is a good idea. Either that or just have a collapsible menu that can be pinned if desired and the user has horizontal space to spare. CP is largely a workflow that can be followed, so there could probably just be small "next" and "prev" buttons instead of all these icons that take up space and don't give much information. This is similar to what CalMAN uses, and I think it works well.
  • On nearly every module, if multiple graphs are present, they frequently don't line up with each other. Why is this? To me, it doesn't look like the graphs are on a grid. In grayscale, gamma is noticeably wider than the grayscale graph, and it's much closer to the top of the window than grayscale is to the bottom. The fonts look different. "% video" is in italics while "gamma" is not. "Grayscale" is in bold which I guess is because it is the title of the graph, but then the gamma graph doesn't have a title for some reason.
  • Same story with the color gamut module: Different fonts between chroma and luminance. Chroma is noticeably "higher" than luminance and is further away from the left edge than luminance is from the right edge. Why is this? These things stick out to me and look unprofessional to my eyes. It's been a long time since I've done .NET work, but can't these be lined up and made more consistent?
  • In color management, the LSH graph has extremely small fonts and is hard to read. Granted, my resolution isn't the best as I'm using an older laptop (720p), but I have to imagine there is a better way of doing that.
  • I think the tabs at the top could go. To me, they simply duplicate what the icons already do, and I think it could just lead to confusion for newer users. I once spent a significant amount of time troubleshooting why the reference gamut wasn't changing in CP 2 only to have Tom tell me I needed to close that tab completely and "reopen it" to commit that change. To a normal user, it isn't clear that the buttons are simply activating tabs unless they aren't open in which case they refresh their settings. If I make a gamut change then go to CM, I would reasonably expect that to change on the fly. It looks like this specific item was addressed in CP 3, but I am not sure if other examples like that are in the product.
  • It isn't clear how to get back to the home page to change settings. You have to either find the tab or find it under "view" which isn't that intuitive to me. It's the first thing that appears when you launch the product, so why isn't it the first icon if we stick with the icon view?

Basically, if I had to offer summary UI suggestions from my admittedly amateurish perspective, it would be this: I think it is pretty clear that you are obviously struggling with horizontal space, but free vertical space is everywhere. Just look at how much grayspace is in the CM and gamma modules around the graphs. It seems that a lot of the information that is currently vertical like the "colors," "reference color," and "measured color" panes could be made horizontal. This could give you an enormous amount of real estate to make the graphs much larger than they are, and you may even be able to add additional graphs like a "close up" CIE chart of the point we are trying to calibrate. Have you considered anything like that? I really think you need more horizontal space to do what you are trying to do.

Tom, please understand that I'm only trying to be constructive here. Most others are as well. We all want CP 3 to be the best that it can. Nearly all of us here are paying customers and have a vested interest in the product. I would echo others that said it could be time to bring in a professional UI designer. Even if they only gave you suggestions, I think you could keep up on the layout as long as they gave you a starting framework. Regardless, thanks for considering my feedback, and I look forward to seeing where CP 3 is going to go. Keep up the good work!
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post #253 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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firefox15:

I am not going to quote your post because of its length. As evidence of the fact that I was NOT "taking this a little personal", I don't object to your post at all. It is reasonable and--unlike the posts that did irritate me royally--it is loaded with specific examples. In fact, many of the exact issues you bring up were discussed during development. They were not addressed only because there were other issues of higher priority, and, frankly, a lot of this stuff is harder to see once you become accustomed to looking at it every day. Fresh eyes are helpful.

If you think I confused features with UI (fair enough), then I also think you have in some cases confused UI with "fit and finish". Many of the issues you list, if addressed, would not affect the UI per se, but would enhance its elegance and professionalism. As I said, I don't disagree with these comments. For me, UI is the visual aspect of the application that affects workflow. Font mismatches or graphics that don't line up do not affect workflow, but they sure don't look very good either.

I guess the only thing I do strongly disagree with is your comments on the tabs. They do not "duplicate what the icons do." They allow users to have multiple modules open simultaneously. Using them allows you to switch between modules rapidly without opening new modules. This feature is a carry-over from v2 and one I am not inclined to change.

The issue you mentioned about having to close a module in v2 and then re-open is actually an example of a UI improvement in v3. This is a refresh issue, which controls when the changes you have made affect the screen's appearance. BTW, changes to the application and module settings menus do not take affect until those menus are closed.

Note: Yes the grayed out icon at the bottom is auto-cal, which I presume you are not licensed for.

I appreciate your thoughtful and constructive suggestions. Our tentative plan is to focus on UI enhancements in v 3.2. Version 3.1 is already spoken for.
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post #254 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 12:18 PM
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I appreciate your thoughtful and constructive suggestions. Our tentative plan is to focus on UI enhancements in v 3.2. Version 3.1 is already spoken for.
Thanks for the response, Tom. Best of luck with the enhancements!
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post #255 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 01:34 PM
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  • Asking people to make changes to their screen resolution and change DPI scaling settings in compatibility mode is probably a tough sell in 2016. The product is built on .NET, right? I assume the framework offers some way of working around this, albeit I do not know how to do it.
I was shocked and extremely disappointed when I fired up CP3 the first time and experienced the same scaling issues as with CP2 running Windows 10 on my MacBook Pro Retina. I consider this a major programming flaw in a new, modern software, and I really hope that Tom will fix this in a future build.
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post #256 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 02:16 PM
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What is the procedure to place an image on the top of a calibration report?

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post #257 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:02 PM
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The funny thing is that this happens ALL the time. People are used to program A. Version B arrives and they have to get used to it. They have been staring at program A for such a long time it feels comfortable and familiar. So program B is a HUGE dissapointment. Eventually they get used to the new look and feel and the complaining fades away. Untill version C appears ofcourse. Which is SO much worse then their beloved version B, which was so much better. Really, version C could've been done a lot better and is REALLY dissapointing...
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post #258 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:07 PM
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check again with meter correction please. Is a bug ...
Measurements in the contrast module is without meter correction and measurements in white balance is with meter correction
Tom Did you see that ?
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post #259 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 04:48 PM
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The Official ChromaPure 3 thread

Let's put aside on the choices with the UI experience, I think we can all agreed that CP3 is definitely a vast improvement from CP2...be it in terms of features and overall feel. Some of us, perhaps including Tom himself sees design in a different light...and we can argue about UI and design philosophy endlessly and probably heading no way...If this is the case, then let's FOCUS on what most of us AGREED on. For me, the No.1 annoyance right now is the scalability of the entire software which makes navigation on some weird screen resolutions (thanks to all kinds of high dpi resolution of today's notebook display) that literally make the software unusable to a certain extent. This, in my opinion should be Tom's TOP PRIORITY to resolve...users need to be able to move around in the software environment to see the options clearly so that they can use the software. I believe everyone here agrees with me on this. For those who never experience this issue, good for you...but for everyone else, you know how frustrating it is to use. Try a quad hd display for say a 13" Ultrabook or equivalent and you'll know what some of us are facing...

Other cosmetic improvements like the choice of icons, colors, themes, layout etc can be worked on in subsequent iterations.


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post #260 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 08:07 PM
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The small window option doesn't work in the autocal setup using my lumagen 2143.
It keeps reverting to the bigger window, I want too use the smaller window do too the fact that I'm calibrating plasma.
Thank you
Also, the sharpness pattern no longer pops up in the precal runthrough.
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post #261 of 1726 Old 01-16-2016, 08:09 PM
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Also, once the calibration is finished and report pops up, how do I save the finished autocal, or does it do it automatically?
Thanks again.
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post #262 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 10:41 AM
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First use of CP3

Just got V3 loaded and was able to perform an auto-calibration of my RS500 @ 100 hrs, via my Lumagen 2143.

I am very impressed with V3. I have only used HCFR and version 2.5.7, but for what I need this is vastly easier to use than 2.5.7.

Tom,
A couple of observations:
1. I couldn't find anywhere in the auto-calibrate tab where to set Gamma, so I went into the Gamma Module and set BT.1886. Might want to add this to the auto-cal tab.
2. During auto-cal the target gamma has more than 10 decimal places displayed. No biggie, but you may want to display 2 places.
3. Last page of the auto-cal report, I think the pre and post data is switched. My dE's were better pre than post, which I doubt is correct.

Attached are a couple of reports. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve the results.

At 0 hrs. I set brightness to ~ 65 cd/m^2. At 100 hrs. brightness (off the screen) ~ 63 cd/m^2, which could be due to the probe position, so it seems that the lamp is dimming quite slowly.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 125 pts JVC - 100 hrs..pdf (527.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: pdf color checker JVC - 100 hrs..pdf (191.6 KB, 33 views)

Last edited by Knd; 01-17-2016 at 10:44 AM. Reason: added brightness info
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post #263 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for sharing... This is the first time I saw the version 3 auto cal report as I didn't have the chance to use CP3 at all even though I purchased it a week plus ago. Looks good.

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post #264 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 02:23 PM
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Thumbs up

I've been a ChromaPure user for quite a few years and just spent the day getting used to ChromaPure3. After using it for a bit on Windows 10 system, I am quite happy. Nice job Tom!!

I previously used ChromaPure on an older laptop running Vista. I have been having some problems maintaining the old Vista machine so started trying to use the Windows 10 laptop. A problem that I previously had with the newer laptop (back when I was running Windows 8.1 on it) when I tried ChromaPure2 on it was what others had referred to a problem with High Def displays (my Asus laptop is 1080 x 1920 resolution) where parts of the ChromaPure is screen is missing. I explored the display settings in Windows10 and found an "Advanced sizing of text and other items" menu. In that area there is a link to "set a custom scaling level" (which is not recommended as they say it may cause some applications to not function properly). Once I set that to 100% ChromaPure3 displayed properly.

One issue that I do have is that, though I have an AccuPel HDG3000 signal generator, I prefer to use the ChromaPure internal signal generator. With my old laptop, I found that the internal generator signals matched my AccuPel quite well. With Windows10, the HDMI input is subject to display settings (for the extended desktop 2nd screen) and those signals do not then match the AccuPel very well. Does anyone know of a way to bypass the display color settings for the HDMI output with Windows 10? I tried adjusting the color settings so the output matches the Accupel, but there are still errors and I just don't have confidence in the test patterns.

I took advantage of the ChromaPure3 Raw data module to measure the data from the two test signal sources and appreciated being able to export the data so I could do a side by side comparison of the data in Excel. I also took advantage of the automatic measurement mode for the internal test signals. That made me really appreciate the features of ChromaPure3.
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post #265 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post
I've been a ChromaPure user for quite a few years and just spent the day getting used to ChromaPure3. After using it for a bit on Windows 10 system, I am quite happy. Nice job Tom!!

I previously used ChromaPure on an older laptop running Vista. I have been having some problems maintaining the old Vista machine so started trying to use the Windows 10 laptop. A problem that I previously had with the newer laptop (back when I was running Windows 8.1 on it) when I tried ChromaPure2 on it was what others had referred to a problem with High Def displays (my Asus laptop is 1080 x 1920 resolution) where parts of the ChromaPure is screen is missing. I explored the display settings in Windows10 and found an "Advanced sizing of text and other items" menu. In that area there is a link to "set a custom scaling level" (which is not recommended as they say it may cause some applications to not function properly). Once I set that to 100% ChromaPure3 displayed properly.
Yes, indeed that is one way to overcome it. But user should not need to do that. The program itself should scale according to the native resolution. This is something which I hope Tom can resolve it in the next iteration.

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post #266 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 02:31 PM
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Yes, indeed that is one way to overcome it. But user should not need to do that. The program itself should scale according to the native resolution. This is something which I hope Tom can resolve it in the next iteration.

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Yes, but I wanted to share that there is an easy solution to the problem (at least on Win 10 systems).

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Yes, but I wanted to share that there is an easy solution to the problem (at least on Win 10 systems).
Yes I know...like yourself, just wanted to highlight that this is one of the ways to overcome it for some of us.

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post #268 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 06:02 PM
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Just finished my first calibration with CP 3. Some initial thoughts:

  • The ability to scan dozens of colors and saturations at once is fantastic. This used to take me tons of time in the old version, and it is much improved here.
  • Tool-tips for continuous and all readings appear to be missing. Not an issue for experienced users, but this could confuse new users who don't know what "C" and "A" stand for. May want to change this in a UI release.
  • At least in some modules, the bullet doesn't seem to move to the top of the color list when an "all" reading is done, so I have to move it to the top before starting again, or it will just scan the bottom color tons of times.
  • Finally, my only real issue came with the quick report. I kept clicking it, and it just took me to the reports screen with no quick report. I finally gave up on it and took a look at it when I was done. Disappointingly, it appears the same refresh issue with the gamut in 2 is now in the quick report in 3. Unless the reporting module is completely closed (requires me to leave the module I'm in, click the "X" in the right corner of reporting, return to the module I was in, and run the quick report again), it simply won't generate. If I want another quick report from another module, I then need to do all those steps again to get a new report generated. With all the steps to get here, it really isn't that "quick" anymore, you know?

Tom, I'm going to reiterate my recommendation that you drop the tabs. I know, I know, you said you want to keep them, so I don't really expect that to change, but I have had real, measurable, noticeable frustrations using the product in certain situations where the tabbed interface has burned me. Maybe for experienced users of CP this is second nature to them, but I'm telling you as a new user that I believe it is confusing and counter-intuitive. Maybe it's just a question of user education instead of changing the interface, but I'm not sure the upside outweighs the potential downside.

I believe this feature could be what markus767 was referring to when he said certain features may be designed for what you think works well vs. what users are actually saying. Have you considered asking users if they want the tabs? Have people actually said they use this feature and it outweighs potential bugs that could be introduced by it? I think UI testing could be very beneficial here.

Again, please don't take this negatively. Maybe you have already done all this testing or this is second-nature to more professional calibrators. Maybe this is how things are done in the video calibration industry, and maybe you are right in that caching the tab instead of rendering it each time causes a time savings that is worth the potential bugs. I am a total amateur here, and you are obviously an uber-expert. All I can do is say what my experience is. You can tell me to fly a kite, and I'm cool with that.

Anyway, overall I'm very happy. It is much quicker than CP 2 was, and the built in pattern selection in the upper left is nice too. It seemed to do a good job, and I can tell you worked hard on it. Like others said, obviously the UI needs to come after the features, so don't even worry about any of this for now. Thanks for being so responsive and working hard on getting all the bugs worked out.
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post #269 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I cannot repeat the problem with Quick Reports that you describe. Taking measurements and generating a Quick Report results in a 3-page report.

http://www.chromapure.com/bugtest/Qr.../Qreport3.html

Edit: What you may have done is first create another report from another module and then left that report open. You cannot generate a new report--even a quick report--until the existing one has been closed.

The tabs have been in ChromaPure for several years. You are the first and only person to my knowledge to complain about them. Furthermore, a tabbed interface like this is a standard navigation device in MS apps. In other words, we are not really doing anything with these that is unusual or non-standard.

" I have had real, measurable, noticeable frustrations using the product in certain situations where the tabbed interface has burned me."

doesn't really tell me much. I don't understand exactly what problem you have had. If you would describe it, perhaps I could help.

Please--and this is not just for you, but for everyone--please stop including along with reported problems statements to the effect "please don't take this negatively. . ." I am not a fragile flower. I can withstand honest, constructive criticism. There were two posts, two!, in the lengthy discussion about UI that really irritated me because I thought that they were unhelpful, non-specific, and frankly a little obnoxious. I think that most fair-minded people would agree. As long as the post is about substance, then criticize away!! I really don't mind. The product can't get better without honest feedback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by firefox15 View Post
Just finished my first calibration with CP 3. Some initial thoughts:

  • The ability to scan dozens of colors and saturations at once is fantastic. This used to take me tons of time in the old version, and it is much improved here.
  • Tool-tips for continuous and all readings appear to be missing. Not an issue for experienced users, but this could confuse new users who don't know what "C" and "A" stand for. May want to change this in a UI release.
  • At least in some modules, the bullet doesn't seem to move to the top of the color list when an "all" reading is done, so I have to move it to the top before starting again, or it will just scan the bottom color tons of times.
  • Finally, my only real issue came with the quick report. I kept clicking it, and it just took me to the reports screen with no quick report. I finally gave up on it and took a look at it when I was done. Disappointingly, it appears the same refresh issue with the gamut in 2 is now in the quick report in 3. Unless the reporting module is completely closed (requires me to leave the module I'm in, click the "X" in the right corner of reporting, return to the module I was in, and run the quick report again), it simply won't generate. If I want another quick report from another module, I then need to do all those steps again to get a new report generated. With all the steps to get here, it really isn't that "quick" anymore, you know?

Tom, I'm going to reiterate my recommendation that you drop the tabs. I know, I know, you said you want to keep them, so I don't really expect that to change, but I have had real, measurable, noticeable frustrations using the product in certain situations where the tabbed interface has burned me. Maybe for experienced users of CP this is second nature to them, but I'm telling you as a new user that I believe it is confusing and counter-intuitive. Maybe it's just a question of user education instead of changing the interface, but I'm not sure the upside outweighs the potential downside.

I believe this feature could be what markus767 was referring to when he said certain features may be designed for what you think works well vs. what users are actually saying. Have you considered asking users if they want the tabs? Have people actually said they use this feature and it outweighs potential bugs that could be introduced by it? I think UI testing could be very beneficial here.

Again, please don't take this negatively. Maybe you have already done all this testing or this is second-nature to more professional calibrators. Maybe this is how things are done in the video calibration industry, and maybe you are right in that caching the tab instead of rendering it each time causes a time savings that is worth the potential bugs. I am a total amateur here, and you are obviously an uber-expert. All I can do is say what my experience is. You can tell me to fly a kite, and I'm cool with that.

Anyway, overall I'm very happy. It is much quicker than CP 2 was, and the built in pattern selection in the upper left is nice too. It seemed to do a good job, and I can tell you worked hard on it. Like others said, obviously the UI needs to come after the features, so don't even worry about any of this for now. Thanks for being so responsive and working hard on getting all the bugs worked out.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO


Last edited by TomHuffman; 01-17-2016 at 09:42 PM.
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post #270 of 1726 Old 01-17-2016, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Please--and this is not just for you, but for everyone--please stop including along with reported problems statements to the effect "please don't take this negatively. . ." I am not a fragile flower. I can withstand honest, constructive criticism. There were two posts, two!, in the lengthy discussion about UI that really irritated me because I thought that they were unhelpful, non-specific, and frankly a little obnoxious. I think that most fair-minded people would agree. As long as the post is about substance, then criticize away!! I really don't mind. The product can't get better without honest feedback.
Tom, I hope i m not in your blacklist?

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