R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri_ISF View Post
I was just wondering if the DV mode had proper options to calibrate the DV HDR signal. Opposed to the restricted HDR mode that you describe.
I don't recall noticing any white balance in DV, but frankly I wasn't looking for it. I've been looking forward to these files, so I've been researching HDR mode.


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Originally Posted by Dimitri_ISF View Post
The white balance controls you describe seem very crude.
It is definitely different than the HD white balance. It is labeled "20 Points Code Value" and each level is listed by code value 668, 653, 637 rather than percentage. There is no luminance control. It has only RGB controls, but that should be enough to go by the book. Frankly I could tell the grayscale was off just by eye by comparing it to the blu ray, so anything that helps me dial it closer should be a good thing.

I guess I'd also say "Crude compared to what?" My Sumsung in the bedroom only has a two point control and I have to get into the service menu to adjust it so this is way better than that!
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post #122 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mascior View Post
OK. I can see the value in this and if it turns out to be useful...I could add it to the miscellaneous section of my suite under grayscale sweeps. I agree, naming convention of the pattern...example 1. 127/7.2%......2. 254/21.7%....and so on.

Ryan

I double checked and the label in HDR Standard mode is "20 Points Code Value" so maybe something like "LG OLED 20 Points Code Value Grayscale"

Thanks! When you are done, I'll post in the OLED owners forum and try to send some people your way. I know there are a few self calibrators like myself over there and as I said even without the meter, the general patterns helped. My color was off and I improved that with just a filter and your patterns.
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post #123 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 02:15 PM
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Dmarty,

A 2 point white balance is generally the best thing available!. I seldom use 20 point in my calibration work. In many cases it degrades the picture instead of improving it. Usually it only makes the graphs look better.


I'll have to wait and see in the coming months...
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post #124 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dimitri_ISF View Post
Dmarty,

A 2 point white balance is generally the best thing available!. I seldom use 20 point in my calibration work. In many cases it degrades the picture instead of improving it. Usually it only makes the graphs look better.


I'll have to wait and see in the coming months...
I see. I can certainly see your point. I definitely lowered my PQ with the initial 20 pt white balance for HD, but in my case I didn't know what I was doing at all with the luminance and ended up with a average gamma of 1.8 when the target was 2.2. It took hours and tons of patience to get it right. I also realized that the TV was dimming towards the end and throwing it off, so I can definitely see your point. My initial 2 point took maybe 5 minutes, certainly less than 10 minutes and it was spot on. My first attempt at the 20 point did lower the PQ in a VERY noticeable way. I cannot say that the hours I spent to get the 20 point correct was worth it in terms of picture quality improvement over the 2 point, and If I was working on someone else's TV, I'd really see you point! However, in this case, it was more about educating myself about the process and the subject in general. Having worked through the 20 point I now have a better understanding of gamma, but still have much to learn.
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post #125 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 02:40 PM
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+1

I've been calibrating 2K SDR for years, got my ISF license in 2007 and HDR is something completely new for me.

I'm learning as I go also...
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post #126 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Here is a reference for LG's 10-bit code value triplet to grayscale percentage:

1. 127.....7.2%
2. 254.....21.7%
3. 320.....29.2%
4. 386.....36.8%
5. 419.....40.5%
6. 451.....44.2%
7. 467.....46.0%
8. 482.....47.7%
9. 498.....49.5%
10. 513.....51.3%
11. 529.....53.1%
12. 544.....54.8%
13. 560.....56.6%
14. 575.....58.3%
15. 591.....60.2%
16. 606.....61.9%
17. 622.....63.7%
18. 637.....65.4%
19. 653.....67.2%
20. 668.....68.9%

Ryan
Any 8-bit video values can be entered into the user.csv file in the HCFR program directory and will be available as the custom color checker drop down selection.
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post #127 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dmarty View Post
I'm a newbie so I appreciate the patience. If I wanted to convert from the LG chart, (only grey codes) to percentage, is this the general formula?

(legal code-64)/(940-64) = gray percent


Here are a couple of examples.
Code(Nits)=%Gray

320(9.09)=29.22%
419(34.37)=40.53%
498(88.11)=49.54%
591(247.73)=60.16%


The main point of my question is just to confirm that I cannot set the gray scale of my LG B6 with these patterns, because the patterns don't align perfectly to what LG expects.

Am I understanding the subject correctly?
Hi, for every digital level, the luminance has defined from reference ST2084 Calculations file (which is not public available).

Ryan has posted the correct perfentages for the digital steps of LG's 20-Point adjustments.

Also something to note is that the digital level steps between each point is not equal spaced, so it will need a custom workflow/pattterns to match that methology.
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post #128 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's both 10-bit/8-bit values (round nearest) In the process of creating the LG 20 step grayscale patterns now!

1. 127/32.....7.2%
2. 254/64.....21.7%
3. 320/80.....29.2%
4. 386/97.....36.8%
5. 419/105.....40.5%
6. 451/113.....44.2%
7. 467/117.....46.0%
8. 482/121.....47.7%
9. 498/125.....49.5%
10. 513/128.....51.3%
11. 529/132.....53.1%
12. 544/136.....54.8%
13. 560/140.....56.6%
14. 575/144.....58.3%
15. 591/148.....60.2%
16. 606/152.....61.9%
17. 622/156.....63.7%
18. 637/159.....65.4%
19. 653/163.....67.2%
20. 668/167.....68.9%

Ryan
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post #129 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Hi dmarty,



I could easily create a set of test patches that adhere to LG's grayscale methodology...however, that method isn't implemented in of the current calibration software available.



Ryan


We are working with LG on a better solution than their current code value based white balance controls, which don't line up with the labeled code values unless specific metadata values are sent. Even then its kinda wonky. That is why we are working with them on a better method.

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post #130 of 1683 Old 07-25-2016, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Here's both 10-bit/8-bit values (round nearest) In the process of creating the LG 20 step grayscale patterns now!



1. 127/32.....7.2%

2. 254/64.....21.7%

3. 320/80.....29.2%

4. 386/97.....36.8%

5. 419/105.....40.5%

6. 451/113.....44.2%

7. 467/117.....46.0%

8. 482/121.....47.7%

9. 498/125.....49.5%

10. 513/128.....51.3%

11. 529/132.....53.1%

12. 544/136.....54.8%

13. 560/140.....56.6%

14. 575/144.....58.3%

15. 591/148.....60.2%

16. 606/152.....61.9%

17. 622/156.....63.7%

18. 637/159.....65.4%

19. 653/163.....67.2%

20. 668/167.....68.9%



Ryan


Make sure you set the metadata correctly to what was listed in that LG document.
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post #131 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 07:37 AM
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Hi Carneb,

It looks as though you may have the wrong ColorChecker in the hcfr Advanced menu selected. Select the MCD classic and see if that resolves the issue. Thanks.

Ryan
That fixed it
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post #132 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Any 8-bit video values can be entered into the user.csv file in the HCFR program directory and will be available as the custom color checker drop down selection.
Thanks! I edited usercolors.csv and entered the 8 bit colors and labeled them with the code values that will appear in the menu for LG OLED 2016->HDR Standard Mode->White Balance->20 Point Code sequences. I attached it here as a text file for others to use if they like.
Attached Files
File Type: txt usercolors.txt (372 Bytes, 250 views)
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post #133 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dmarty View Post
Thanks! I edited usercolors.csv and entered the 8 bit colors and labeled them with the code values that will appear in the menu for LG OLED 2016->HDR Standard Mode->White Balance->20 Point Code sequences. I attached it here as a text file for others to use if they like.
Will these put the TV in HDR mode?
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post #134 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarty View Post
Thanks! I edited usercolors.csv and entered the 8 bit colors and labeled them with the code values that will appear in the menu for LG OLED 2016->HDR Standard Mode->White Balance->20 Point Code sequences. I attached it here as a text file for others to use if they like.
Thanks, I will also have to make one update to the program so that these will work correctly when using the HDR EOTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Wolfgang View Post
Will these put the TV in HDR mode?
No
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post #135 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 11:32 AM
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Will these put the TV in HDR mode?
Just for clarity the csv file is for HCFR and it just creates a custom color checker so that I can attempt to execute the very specific OLED grayscale calibrations. The test patterns provided certainly put my OLED B6 in HDR mode and there are quite a few patterns that don't require a colorimeter or software to adjust the standard controls. I found them helpful and much better than trial and error on movies.
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post #136 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 11:34 AM
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Thanks, I will also have to make one update to the program so that these will work correctly when using the HDR EOTF.
Is it a significant change or something minor?
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Could this be burnt onto a DVD to play on my Philips BDP7501 UHD player for calibrating my LG ef9500 OLED? Or would it need to be burnt onto a bluray disc? Thanks!
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post #138 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 12:02 PM
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Could this be burnt onto a DVD to play on my Philips BDP7501 UHD player for calibrating my LG ef9500 OLED? Or would it need to be burnt onto a bluray disc? Thanks!
I'm playing them from the media player on my Samsung UHD player. Earlier in the thread there is discussion about the issues creating a disk version.
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post #139 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 12:09 PM
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I'm playing them from the media player on my Samsung UHD player. Earlier in the thread there is discussion about the issues creating a disk version.
I'm concerned that it is not that accurate to the disc drive and only accurate to the usb port. I did see the chat about the disc, but that's not what I'm really looking for. My question is could I burn the files to a dvd and have it work on my philips uhd player? I do not currently have a blu-ray burner, but I'm willing to invest in one if I knew for sure I could burn it to a blu ray and have it work..

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post #140 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm concerned that it is not that accurate to the disc drive and only accurate to the usb port. I did see the chat about the disc, but that's not what I'm really looking for. My question is could I burn the files to a dvd and have it work on my philips uhd player? I do not currently have a blu-ray burner, but I'm willing to invest in one if I knew for sure I could burn it to a blu ray and have it work..
Hi panasonicst60,

The files can be burned to disc, DVD or Bluray. Unfortunately, your player will read the disc back as a transfer medium, no different than your thumb drive via USB. I would have to author an Ultra HD Bluray version for proper disc playback. However, this is something I'm looking into...but as a future project. Thanks!

Ryan
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post #141 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 03:09 PM
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I'm playing them from the media player on my Samsung UHD player. Earlier in the thread there is discussion about the issues creating a disk version.
Lucky you. I am using a panny ub900. It won't play back anything. Does anybody know any alternative options to view the files?
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post #142 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 03:27 PM
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Lucky you. I am using a panny ub900. It won't play back anything. Does anybody know any alternative options to view the files?
They play fine from my TV's internal app as well, LG OLED B6. My router has a USB hard drive attached with media share. I copied the files there and can play them from either device.
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post #143 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Hi panasonicst60,

The files can be burned to disc, DVD or Bluray. Unfortunately, your player will read the disc back as a transfer medium, no different than your thumb drive via USB. I would have to author an Ultra HD Bluray version for proper disc playback. However, this is something I'm looking into...but as a future project. Thanks!

Ryan
Hello Ryan

For early adopters that buy the download, would we get a discount when the UHD disc comes out? Just a question please don't get offended. Thanks for providing us with hdr calibrations!
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Originally Posted by dmarty View Post
I'm playing them from the media player on my Samsung UHD player. Earlier in the thread there is discussion about the issues creating a disk version.


FYI the Samsung K8500 strips off the MaxCLL and MaxFALL metadata from HDR10 files played via USB.

It might not matter for some TVs but others look at MaxCLL for their tone mapping.
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post #145 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 06:16 PM
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FYI the Samsung K8500 strips off the MaxCLL and MaxFALL metadata from HDR10 files played via USB.

It might not matter for some TVs but others look at MaxCLL for their tone mapping.
I wonder if it strips anything else? When I play HDR files via the TV's USB input (Samsung JS8000) the Auto colour space works, but playing anything via the K8500 then Auto on the TV only gives something like 709 colours.
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
FYI the Samsung K8500 strips off the MaxCLL and MaxFALL metadata from HDR10 files played via USB.

It might not matter for some TVs but others look at MaxCLL for their tone mapping.
Does the new Phillips UHD player do that too?
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post #147 of 1683 Old 07-26-2016, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Finishing up the patterns now...here is a look at pattern 20 668/68.9% and the LG recommended metadata highlighted in red.



Video

ID: 256 (0x100)
Menu ID: 1 (0x1)
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main [email protected]@Main
Codec ID: 36
Duration: 1mn 2s
Width: 3840 pixels
Height: 2160 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate: 23.976 (23976/1000) fps
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 10 bits
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.2020
Transfer characteristics: SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients: BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries: R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312680 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance: min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 540.0000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level: 540 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level: 400 cd/m2

Ryan

Last edited by mascior; 07-26-2016 at 09:27 PM.
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post #148 of 1683 Old 07-27-2016, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Finishing up the patterns now...here is a look at pattern 20 668/68.9% and the LG recommended metadata highlighted in red.



Video

ID: 256 (0x100)
Menu ID: 1 (0x1)
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main [email protected]@Main
Codec ID: 36
Duration: 1mn 2s
Width: 3840 pixels
Height: 2160 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate: 23.976 (23976/1000) fps
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 10 bits
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.2020
Transfer characteristics: SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients: BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries: R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312680 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance: min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 540.0000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level: 540 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level: 400 cd/m2

Ryan
Will this be valid for the 2015 LG 65ef9500 also?
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post #149 of 1683 Old 07-27-2016, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Will this be valid for the 2015 LG 65ef9500 also?
No. The EF9500 utilizes the standard 21 point grayscale pattern sweeps. However, there will be a roll off near the 65%-75% patterns because your display's luminance will peak before the 100% patch. Thanks.

Ryan

Last edited by mascior; 07-27-2016 at 06:40 AM.
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post #150 of 1683 Old 07-27-2016, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
FYI the Samsung K8500 strips off the MaxCLL and MaxFALL metadata from HDR10 files played via USB.

It might not matter for some TVs but others look at MaxCLL for their tone mapping.
Do you have any suggestions for how I can check? This may be totally unrelated, but I did turn off HDMI Ultra Deep Color and as soon as I started playing a file the TV recognized it and prompted me to enable that feature.
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