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post #1 of 17 Old 08-15-2016, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Beginner Bundle

Would you guys consider this a good start / price for someone that wants to get serious into calibrating displays but wants to start as a hobby and build skills?
http://calman.spectracal.com/summer-games.html

Do I need anything else besides the software and meter? I'll be calibrating at my home a Pioneer PDP-6020FD, Panasonic 50" ST60 and JVC 4910 projector and then calibrating as many friends and family members TV's as I can get my hands on. Should I go ahead and invest in a more expensive meter like the C6 / C6-HDR?

Thanks guys
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-16-2016, 01:12 PM
 
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I use Calman Enthusiast and the same meter (iD3) they are selling in that bundle. It's a good combo and I don't think many non professionals will need a better meter.

I ended up paying a little less. My original purchase was Calman and a C3 meter for $150. I can't remember what they called it (Calman Basic?). I then purchased my own iD3 when a rebate was offered. Paid $170. And unless I'm missing a step I took advantage of an offer to upgrade to Enthusiast for $79.99. So about $400 over the course of a few years.

So a little less than their bundle but I don't think it's a terrible price for one stop shopping.

The cheapest approach is iD3 and HCFR. HCFR is powerful but not quite as user friendly. I've used it the most...especially since it supports my cheap Colormunki spectro. I only got back into Calman when I purchased a used Lumagen video processor that can be auto calibrated.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks AMartin,
I went for it and bought that bundle, got it Friday. I had to install windows on my macbookpro, that took most of the weekend, getting updates and all for windows. I played around with the software and meter last night on my ST60 using the beginner tutorial, I was surprised at how easy it was at walking you through what you need to do. I got hung up at the gamma part and couldn't get it anywhere close to 2.2 for 60, best I got was a reading at 1.08, worst .3. I've been thinking about it today, I think I just need to go all the way through and get the color errors down (deltaE was crazy, like 10 - 11) and then go back and try that again, I bet it gets closer to 2.2. My thinking now is it's common to do multiple passes on this stuff to get everything "dialed in"

Again, thanks for the advice
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 02:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
Thanks AMartin,
I went for it and bought that bundle, got it Friday. I had to install windows on my macbookpro, that took most of the weekend, getting updates and all for windows. I played around with the software and meter last night on my ST60 using the beginner tutorial, I was surprised at how easy it was at walking you through what you need to do. I got hung up at the gamma part and couldn't get it anywhere close to 2.2 for 60, best I got was a reading at 1.08, worst .3. I've been thinking about it today, I think I just need to go all the way through and get the color errors down (deltaE was crazy, like 10 - 11) and then go back and try that again, I bet it gets closer to 2.2. My thinking now is it's common to do multiple passes on this stuff to get everything "dialed in"

Again, thanks for the advice
I may not quite understand what you're trying to describe but when running grayscale the dE given doesn't really have anything to do with gamma.

You would run grayscale and adjust the two and ten point controls to get lower dEs at the ten IRE points. Then you can use the universal gamma control to get the luminance of all ten points as close to your target as possible (I believe Calman default to BT1886 which is a good starting point in my opinion). Finally you would use the ten point gamma controls to dial it in even further.
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I may not quite understand what you're trying to describe but when running grayscale the dE given doesn't really have anything to do with gamma.

You would run grayscale and adjust the two and ten point controls to get lower dEs at the ten IRE points. Then you can use the universal gamma control to get the luminance of all ten points as close to your target as possible (I believe Calman default to BT1886 which is a good starting point in my opinion). Finally you would use the ten point gamma controls to dial it in even further.
Gotcha, I'll try again. What I wrote was confusing, I meant that I couldn't get gamma up to 2.2, nowhere even close, no matter what settings I changed in the menu for the st60. I finally gave up and went on through the next steps and got to color. Color had dE errors very high. That's when I thought maybe me not getting gamma anywhere close to 2.2 was partly the problem with such high errors for color.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
Gotcha, I'll try again. What I wrote was confusing, I meant that I couldn't get gamma up to 2.2, nowhere even close, no matter what settings I changed in the menu for the st60. I finally gave up and went on through the next steps and got to color. Color had dE errors very high. That's when I thought maybe me not getting gamma anywhere close to 2.2 was partly the problem with such high errors for color.
Are you perhaps using full fields rather than windows? On a plasma you need to use windows due to ABL.

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post #7 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
Are you perhaps using full fields rather than windows? On a plasma you need to use windows due to ABL.
I was using MobileForge on my iOS device plugged directly into the tv. I guess my newbness is showing strong. Do most plug PC directly up to display for doing window test patterns in this case? Or is there an easier way?
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0dIn View Post
I was using MobileForge on my iOS device plugged directly into the tv. I guess my newbness is showing strong. Do most plug PC directly up to display for doing window test patterns in this case? Or is there an easier way?
I use a good old-fashioned disc with patterns. I'd imagine that MobileForge is fine. Just don't use full field patterns.

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post #9 of 17 Old 08-22-2016, 08:49 PM
 
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I use a Lumagen to generate patterns now but prior to that I really liked the GCD patterns :

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...6352?_k=qjgisg
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
I use a good old-fashioned disc with patterns. I'd imagine that MobileForge is fine. Just don't use full field patterns.
Is there a preference for APL 18 or APL 25 for plasma fields? I have a 60" Kuro PRO-151FD.
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Is there a preference for APL 18 or APL 25 for plasma fields? I have a 60" Kuro PRO-151FD.
I think the windows on AVS HD 709 are smaller, 12% IIRC.

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post #12 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
I think the windows on AVS HD 709 are smaller, 12% IIRC.
I think you're right, but I'm talking about just general guidelines on APL 18 vs 25, for use with pattern generators and such.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post
I think the windows on AVS HD 709 are smaller, 12% IIRC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
I think you're right, but I'm talking about just general guidelines on APL 18 vs 25, for use with pattern generators and such.
AVSHD Window patterns have 14.16% size. They are not ideal for KURO (or other plasma) because due to it's size they will trigger the ABL circuit. Better to use standard 10-11.11% Windows. I have KURO also.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
AVSHD Window patterns have 14.16% size. They are not ideal for KURO (or other plasma) because due to it's size they will trigger the ABL circuit. Better to use standard 10-11.11% Windows. I have KURO also.
Thanks. So if you were using a pattern generator like a Murideo Prisma that gives options for APL 18 or APL 25 (again with the Kuro PRO-151FD), which would you choose? I assume APL 18. I'm using CalMAN with auto-cal for 3D LUT.

Sorry for taking this thread a bit OT. But I still consider myself a beginner
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-24-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam S View Post
Thanks. So if you were using a pattern generator like a Murideo Prisma that gives options for APL 18 or APL 25 (again with the Kuro PRO-151FD), which would you choose? I'm using CalMAN with auto-cal for 3D LUT.

Sorry for taking this thread a bit OT. But I still consider myself a beginner
No APL. Use window patterns with black background color.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-29-2019, 01:27 AM
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Pioneer Pro 151FD with Calma 5.10

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
No APL. Use window patterns with black background color.
Will I be able to connect via Ethernet with Calman to the Pioneer? Will I be able to use DDC? This is my first Pioneer Pro 151FD. I will be using a C6 HDR2000 and Muridio Fresco 6G

Thank you.
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-29-2019, 01:37 AM
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Will I be able to connect via Ethernet with Calman to the Pioneer? Will I be able to use DDC? This is my first Pioneer Pro 151FD. I will be using a C6 HDR2000 and Muridio Fresco 6G.
Hi, CalMAN is not supporting DDC for KURO, you need to get ControlCAL utility which will unlock ISF modes and provide you DDC.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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