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post #61 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Edit: the display shows 4K, 60 Hz, HDR10 with both sources
Ryan's patterns are 24p, are you getting 60Hz when you playing them? Are you see 60Hz also when you playback a UHD title?

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post #62 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
I suspect the Firestick is correctly scaling the patches from LightSpace to 16-235.
That is as it should be.
It will not be LightSpace clipping, as it has no way to do that.
(Clipping can only be at the display/patch generator.)
You can manually set rescaling using the 'Patch Scale' option within LightSpace, but under most situations the graphics card/connected device running the LightSpace Connect App will take care of that via EDID.

Steve
Thank you for responding Steve.

I don't have the Linker on right now, but I believe in the Custom Default EDID mode the last reading I got for LS Connect was 581 Nits.

Setting the Patch Scale option from 0 - 255 to 16 - 235 only reduces peak brightness, so the default setting (0 - 255) must be correct.

I will keep experimenting tomorrow.

Thanks again.
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post #63 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You need to use the exact same metadata to your HD Fury with the one Ryan's patterns are using, to do proper testing, because your TV output will be variable using different metadata input.

To find out, load a Ryan's pattern to MediaInfo to see what metadata is using: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
I have the disc so not sure how to do that.
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post #64 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Check also visual if the pattern sizes are matching, use a laser point for example aiming it to a patch corner and swap between the 2 pattern sources, or use a paper with painters tape.

Good idea. I will definitely compare the pattern sizes later today. Thanks Ted.
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post #65 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I have the disc so not sure how to do that.
Ask Ryan what metadata has used to the chapter you are using.

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post #66 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Ryan's patterns are 24p, are you getting 60Hz when you playing them? Are you see 60Hz also when you playback a UHD title?
Yes, Ryan's disc is 23.976p 60 Hz

Same for UHD titles I have.
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post #67 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Yes, Ryan's disc is 23.976p 60 Hz

Same for UHD titles I have.
24p is the disk, the signal output from your player have to be 24p also, the 60Hz where do you see it? from TV's OSD? What display do you have?

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post #68 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Ask Ryan what metadata has used to the chapter you are using.
I posted there too. I will ask him. Thanks!
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post #69 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
24p is the disk, the singal output from your player have to be 24p also, the 60Hz where do you see it? from TV's OSD? What display do you have?
I see 60 Hz on the TV display, along with 24p, but 60 Hz is also on the Linker GUI. I have a TCL P605 LCD display.
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post #70 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I ran a compare with LS Connect patterns and those on the Masciola HDR-10 test disc, with the Amazon firestick connected to input A on the HDfury Linker and the Oppo 205 UHD player plugged into input B.

For HDR peak brightness (255, 255, 255) I get two different readings.

The LS Connect pattern (via the firestick) shows reading of 561 Nits. The same 100% white pattern on the Masciola disc gives a value of 603 Nits.

I'm running the firestick in upscale mode and the Oppo in Pass-Thru mode, so outputs are the same.

Any idea why there's 40 Nits difference?

Edit: the display shows 4K, 60 Hz, HDR10 with both sources
FireStick Output RGB but when you use upscale in HD Linker, its converting and outputing 2160p YCbCr.

To exclude any introduced error from that colorspace change, don't use upscalling feature of Linker, so your signal will be RGB (untouched from Linker)

RGB -> YCbCr REc.709 vs. RGB -> YCbCr REC.2020....they have different matrix for the calculations, so you can have errors in colors when the conversion is not counting the colorspace difference.

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post #71 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I see 60 Hz on the TV display, along with 24p, but 60 Hz is also on the Linker GUI. I have a TCL P605 LCD display.
Check your player settings, you have to see 24p (input) from the linker when you play 24p content.

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post #72 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 01:49 AM
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Ok, I will try Thru mode in a few hours and take a reading. Thanks for your help!

Last edited by Pres2play; 09-15-2017 at 01:54 AM.
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post #73 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I posted there too. I will ask him. Thanks!
You haven't asked correctly the data you want to know....

You need to ask using the name of the specific chapter you are using from Ryan's disk, what mastering primaries, max/min, MaxFALL and MaxCLL is using...

So later you will send metadata with HD Linker using these parameters.

LightSpace is not sending metadata, Linker will add it to your signal.

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post #74 of 99 Old 09-15-2017, 10:19 AM
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So I used masking tape to measure the two 10% windows. Turns out there's a difference.

Ryan's 10% test patterns are larger than the LightSpace 10% patterns, as entered in the Network Manager option box.

Here you see Ryan's test pattern extending into the masking tape designating the 10% LightSpace pattern. Ryan's pattern is about 1.5 to 2" larger horizontally.



When I increased the LS pattern size to 12%, the reading was 648 Nits.

When I lowered the LS pattern to 11%, the reading matched Ryan's 10% pattern almost exactly: 603.7485 Nits

Edit: TV picture size is set on Auto so not sure if this is a factor
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post #75 of 99 Old 12-15-2017, 11:54 PM
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Hello ... I have always worked with Calman MobileForge and would now like to switch to Lightspace. I would like to buy the Lightspace HTL software in conjunction with the Lightspace Connect app. Can I still use my xRite i1 Display Pro Sensor? Thank you

Sony Bravia 65XE9005 / Himedia Q10 Pro / Video Forge II HDMI / FireTV Stick with MobileForge
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post #76 of 99 Old 12-17-2017, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexias View Post
Hello ... I have always worked with Calman MobileForge and would now like to switch to Lightspace. I would like to buy the Lightspace HTL software in conjunction with the Lightspace Connect app. Can I still use my xRite i1 Display Pro Sensor? Thank you
Hi,

i1Display PRO meter can be found as Retail or OEM, to identify the revision or the year/month of manufacture then you can look the meter's serial number which is located on the sticker on the permanently attached counter weight.

The OEM version instrument serial number has the following format:

OE-yy.r-02.xxxxxx.mm

(OE = OEM version, yy = short year manufactured, r-02 = hardware revision (A or B) - firmware version (02), xxxxxx = incremental number, mm = month manufactured)

The Retail version instrument serial number has the following format:

i1-yy.r-02.xxxxxx.mm

(i1 = Retail version, yy = short year manufactured, r-02 = hardware revision (A or B) - firmware version (02), xxxxxx = incremental number, mm = month manufactured)

If your OEM meter has ''yy = 17'' means that its the OEM Rev.B 2017 manufactured and certified for extended dynamic range up to 2000 nits)

If your OEM or Retail meter has hardware revision number ''B-02'' and ''yy = 16'' or earlier then its a Rev.B certified up to 1000 nits.

Any OEM or Retail meter with hardware revision number ''A-02'' then its a Rev.A certified up to 1000 nits also.

LightSpace officially supports only the OEM version (of any revision), but unofficially it can additionally support the following colorimeters also (send me msg for more):

X-Rite ColorMunki Display
X-Rite i1Display PRO Retail
SpectraCAL C6
SpectraCAL C6-HDR
HP DreamColor
NEC SpectraSensor Pro
Quato Silver Haze 3
Wacom Color Manager
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post #77 of 99 Old 11-06-2018, 03:42 AM
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I finally tested LightSpace Connect App through different devices. You might want to have a look HERE

T.U.C. Master | TVs: Pioneer PDP-LX5090H, LG OLED55C8PLA | AV Receiver: Pioneer VSX-921 | BD Player: Panasonic DMP-BDT260EG | External LUT box: Entertainment Experience eeColor | Softwares: Light Illusion Lightspace HTP, CM Enthusiast, HCFR, DisplayCAL | Probes: Klein K10-A, Jeti spectraval 1501, X-Rite i1 Display Pro OEM Rev. B-02 | Test Pattern Generator: Riccardo Biasiotto’s PGenerator (RPi)
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post #78 of 99 Old 11-07-2018, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
I finally tested LightSpace Connect App through different devices. You might want to have a look HERE
Are the results there?
Can't seem to see them...

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post #79 of 99 Old 11-07-2018, 01:17 AM
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Sure, they are there. The examination of LightSpace Connect starts from "TPG for LightSpace". Probably you didn't notice it because there are no digital errors, all zeros
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post #80 of 99 Old 03-13-2019, 08:16 AM
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I own two Amazon devices, a FireTV stick and a FireTV 4k. Lightspace Connect(fully purchased) runs fine on the Amazon FireTV stick, but when trying to use Lightspace Connect on FireTV 4k the app remains in demo mode and won't allow me to purchase(clicking the purchase button after the demo patches have run out it returns a Null error message).

Also, what's the correct patch scale setting in Lightspace when using Lightspace Connect on the Amazon FireTV devices? I noticed the FireTV 4k seems to have RGB and YCbCr selectable output.
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post #81 of 99 Old 03-14-2019, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you let us know when you tried to purchase for the FireTV 4K?
Our developer for LightSpace Connect is looking into the issue...
Best to contact me directly by email.
(We don't check forums that regularly, other than the ones on our website.)

I see your 'levels' questions have been answered in another thread.

Steve

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post #82 of 99 Old 01-25-2020, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Coming to LightSpace Connect...
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Last edited by Light Illusion; 01-25-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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post #83 of 99 Old 01-27-2020, 02:24 PM
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After getting the opportunity to test both the Android and iOS beta versions of the upcoming release of LightSpace Connect, I can share some of my findings so far.

Testing was performed on an LG C9 in SDR Cinema picture mode. Prior to testing, I reset the picture mode and disabled ALL post processing, set OLED Light to 26 to output 100 nits, colour gamut was set to wide, gamma 2.4, and I did a very quick manual greyscale adjustment using the RPi PGenerator as my pattern source (controlled by CalMAN's UPGCI) and the manual calibration workflow in CalMAN Home for LG. I did this as it has been confirmed many times that the RPi Pgen is bit accurate when configured correctly.

Also, through previous testing I have compared RPi Pgenerator results to the LG iTPG results and found them to be matched, so after my (very quick) greyscale adjustment using the RPi, I connected to the LG iTPG and hit read series, the results of which can be seen in the attached screenshots. I then took a read of 100% R-G-B with 100% stimulus. These are the readings I have used to compare the results of the LightSpace Connect generated patterns via CalMAN's UPGCI.

With the beta version of the iOS App, I cast the generated patterns to the display using the Screen Mirroring function of my iPhone XS directly to the C9's built in Airplay 2 function as I only have an ATV 4K which is confirmed not to have an accurate output. Connection was quick and flawless, as was the rest of the process. I did get a warning flash on my phone screen as I reached the 25 patch limit (this did not display on the C9), but it continued to generate the patches, perhaps as it is the beat version? I would assume once this version is out of beta, the (modest) in app fee would be required to continue past the 25 patch limit of the free version. Results measuring greyscale and the same R-G-B patches were very, very good!! Any discrepancies could be attributed to panel drift (time between measurements). As the third generation ATV is confirmed to have an accurate output, this could conceivably be considered as a viable solution for patch generation!!

For the Android beta version of the App (again controlled via CalMAN's UPGCI), I had to unfortunately use my Chromecast Ultra as it I could not seem to find the built in Miracast function that was on my previous LG OLED's. If it's there, I can't find it. If it is still available and anyone knows how to enable it then I'd be happy to test that in the near future, otherwise I will test it on my C7 when I get the chance. But for now the CCU results will have to do despite the CCU output confirmed to not be accurate. To get the CCU to output 16-235 patterns within CalMAN, I had to set the patch range to 0-255 to read a 0% Black and 100% White. CCU obviously messes with the signal output significantly which caused luminance to drop a little, but other than that, results were "acceptable". An accurate Android (Fire Stick???) device is likely to have better results and thus could also be considered a viable patch generation solution. Direct casting to the TV may also work. I will test direct casting using Miracast at the earliest opportunity on my C7.

Finally, just for kicks I decided to compare these results against CalMAN's own MobileForge App, and this was done using both the iOS and Android versions in the same manner as I tested the LightSpace App. The results of the Android version of MobileForge using the same Android phone displayed via CCU can also be seen below and greyscale results were okay. I had to once again set patch scale in CalMAN to 0-255 as I did before, and luminance was actually a little closer to the initial RPi setup and iTPG readings. But the differences in the R-G-B measurements can clearly be seen, especially in Green luminance. I measured this 3 times to rule out a misread, but it returned the same values each time. I also tried several times to use the iOS MobileForge App directly Mirrored via Airplay 2 to the C9, but it crashed about halfway through the greyscale each and every time.

It should be noted that the tests I did were completely unscientific. The initial manual greyscale adjustment I did took all of 15 minutes (maximum), and was only done to set a fairly reasonable baseline for readings to be compared to. I also left the scales in the CalMAN result charts at their default values rather than narrow the scale range to a more zoomed in view. But even though it was an unscientific test without "reference equipment" or signal analyzers, the fact the RPi has been verified bit accurate and the iTPG matches it, comparing LightSpace Connect to those results shows that if using it on a device with an accurate output, it is, in my opinion, a viable test pattern generation solution at a very modest price if you unlock the full unlimited version via the in app purchases.

Nice work Steve!
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post #84 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The LightSpace Connect app is actually a separate development stream, performed by 'Caplaz', and is actually not directly attributable to Light Illusion.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...aplaz&hl=en_GB

We obviously work with the developer, and there are more developments pending - for example, HDR is looking like a possibility...

If you have thoughts and feedback on LightSpace Connect the best is to contact Stefano directly.
To make life simple for Stefano he has a 'Light Illusion' email address, so he can separate out LightSpace Connect discussions from other discussions.

Steve

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post #85 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Coming to LightSpace Connect...
Are you saying that this app will support the use of Calman?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

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post #86 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Are you saying that this app will support the use of Calman?

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Yes you can use it also to connect CalMAN via the Unifed Pattern Generator Control Interface (UPGCI)

It's working perfectly fine as Leon already confirmed.
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post #87 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackJoker View Post
Yes you can use it also to connect CalMAN via the Unifed Pattern Generator Control Interface (UPGCI)

It's working perfectly fine as Leon already confirmed.
Interesting, is it available for TViOS and Android TV? When will the Calman supported version be out of beta and available in the stores?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

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post #88 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Interesting, is it available for TViOS and Android TV? When will the Calman supported version be out of beta and available in the stores?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
I don't believe there is a TVOS version of LightSpace Connect, but it does connect flawlessly via Airplay. Unfortunately ATV 4k is not at accurate, but according to @Anger.miki and his testing, the 3rd Generation ATV is. I used the C9 Airplay out of curiosity more than anything, as the C9 obviously has its own iTPG. But built in Airplay seems to be accurate with the "unscientific" test I did, so with that being the case, Airplay to the accurate output of a 3rd Gen ATV seems a viable solution.

I believe the app is available to use on the Android based Fire TV, and this too is accurate if configured correctly (not the 4k version), again confirmed by Miki's tests. The assumption therefore is that the Fire TV app should also be a genuinely viable solution.

Check The Cheap Test Pattern Generator Thread for more information about the accuracy of various devices

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post #89 of 99 Old 01-28-2020, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The LightSpace Connect app is actually a separate development stream, performed by 'Caplaz', and is actually not directly attributable to Light Illusion.
Thank you for that clarification. But, nice work anyway!

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We obviously work with the developer, and there are more developments pending - for example, HDR is looking like a possibility...
Happy to test this too, if/when it becomes available.

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post #90 of 99 Old 01-29-2020, 01:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The new version of LightSpace Connect has now been released to the various stores.

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

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