Help with Full/Limited RGB (Sharp LC-32LE653U) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Help with Full/Limited RGB (Sharp LC-32LE653U)

I really hope someone can help me out, as it's driving me crazy. For the life of me I am unable to determine whether my TV supports Full RGB colors or simply Limited. Mainly, I'm wanting to make sure that my TV and PS4 are in-sync with each other. Currently, when setting my PS4 to Limited, the picture appears to be ever-so-slightly dull. If I load up a calibration image on a web browser with my TV set to Full, the blacks crush, but with just a few bumps of the brightness up, they're crystal-clear like they would be at Limited. I can't find any documentation online as to whether my TV supports a Full or a Limited RGB, so if anyone can help me get to the bottom of this, I'd be most grateful.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 01:06 AM
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post #3 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan2011 View Post
I understand Full and Limited RGB; I'm simply trying to determine which my TV supports, since using a basic calibration image isn't giving me definitive results.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 01:31 AM
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I would imagine that movie will be limted and pc will be full range.

If you read through the link that I posted then you will be able to determine from displaying the patterns the colour space that best suits the combination that you have.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 04:28 AM
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Is it necessary to calibrate the tv again if it was done say in limited RGB (on both the PS4 and TV) and later change it to full?

Does that make a difference?
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-13-2017, 07:26 AM
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If the conversion is being done properly then I would say no. Since the conversion is 16-235 -> 0-255, 16 should = 0 and 235 should = 255. I do speak under correction though.

However I have noticed on my tv, full rgb input without the tv doing any internal scaling, peak white is at 120 nits. After changing the source to rgb limited, also without internal scaling peak white is 103 nits. But I am sure that super white and below black have something to do with it.
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-14-2017, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan2011 View Post
I would imagine that movie will be limted and pc will be full range.

If you read through the link that I posted then you will be able to determine from displaying the patterns the colour space that best suits the combination that you have.
Very nice find on the remote and modes. PC mode is indeed full range. Still unable to get a satisfactory result with Movie mode to feel 100% confident that it's limited or not, but it's probably just as you said. Appreciate the help!
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-14-2017, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan2011 View Post
If the conversion is being done properly then I would say no. Since the conversion is 16-235 -> 0-255, 16 should = 0 and 235 should = 255. I do speak under correction though.

However I have noticed on my tv, full rgb input without the tv doing any internal scaling, peak white is at 120 nits. After changing the source to rgb limited, also without internal scaling peak white is 103 nits. But I am sure that super white and below black have something to do with it.
Like the poster above asked, if the TV was calibrated at Limited, but is indeed able to output Full, if when I change the display to Full, should the blacks look relatively the same as before? Because when I change my output, my PS4, from Limited to Full, I have to increase my TV's brightness by about 10 points for the blacks to not clip anymore. Would that suggest that my TV does NOT support Full and I should just go back to Limited?

When I increase my brightness by 10 points at Full, the picture looks perfect. Blacks are no longer crushed, and the picture looks ever-so-slightly more vibrant. This is confusing to me as I was under the impression that if your TV only supports Limited and you have a picture that is outputting to Full, you should get crushed blacks no matter what you do to the picture. Am I wrong in assuming that?

Last edited by CaptainFelafel; 02-14-2017 at 07:42 PM.
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-14-2017, 08:47 PM
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The link that I posted at post number 2, did you request the calibration images from

http://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html ? You will recieve the download link by email, once you have downloaded the pack, display them through the ps4. The patterns are in tiff, not sure if the ps4 is capable of displaying them in this format, if not, convert to png.

You will quickly be able to determine the right (best) configuration.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-14-2017, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan2011 View Post
The link that I posted at post number 2, did you request the calibration images from

http://www.lightillusion.com/downloads.html ? You will recieve the download link by email, once you have downloaded the pack, display them through the ps4. The patterns are in tiff, not sure if the ps4 is capable of displaying them in this format, if not, convert to png.

You will quickly be able to determine the right (best) configuration.
I missed that, sorry. Thanks again for the help.
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-14-2017, 11:42 PM
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No problem, it will be interesting to hear what your findings are.......
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-16-2017, 03:22 AM
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I too have requested the calibration images. After a lot of to'ing and fro'ing, I have decided on having the RGB range set to limited on the PS4, and the HDMI black level set to low on the TV (Samsung). This gives a generally pleasing level of detail in dark areas, but it will be interesting to see what, if any difference, additional calibration under these settings will make to the overall picture quality.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-16-2017, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFelafel View Post
Like the poster above asked, if the TV was calibrated at Limited, but is indeed able to output Full, if when I change the display to Full, should the blacks look relatively the same as before?
The blacks should look relatively the same, if both the TV and the source (PS4) are changed from Limited to Full.

Quote:
Because when I change my output, my PS4, from Limited to Full, I have to increase my TV's brightness by about 10 points for the blacks to not clip anymore. Would that suggest that my TV does NOT support Full and I should just go back to Limited?
Assuming you only change the PS4 from Limited to Full without changing the range on the TV, indeed the black will be clipped.
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-16-2017, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The blacks should look relatively the same, if both the TV and the source (PS4) are changed from Limited to Full.


Assuming you only change the PS4 from Limited to Full without changing the range on the TV, indeed the black will be clipped.
My TV doesn't actually have any options for changing its RGB capabilities, which is why this is a problem in the first place for me. But seeing as I'm having to change my brightness when changing the range on my PS4, it very much sounds like my TV is limited to... limited.
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-16-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFelafel View Post
My TV doesn't actually have any options for changing its RGB capabilities, which is why this is a problem in the first place for me. But seeing as I'm having to change my brightness when changing the range on my PS4, it very much sounds like my TV is limited to... limited.
If your TV does not provide the range option then it's almost certainly limited.
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-24-2017, 09:59 PM
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To reiterate what I said in THIS thread:

I don't trust a consoles picture viewer or their web browser, simply because I can't control it, so I don't recommend making a decision based on what you see this way.

For gaming consoles, there is an easy way to tell which black level is correct for your display.
Set the console to full rgb. Load a game that has a black loading screen.
Make note of how "black" this is.
Switch your DISPLAY's black level to the other option, and check that loading screen again.

Is the black of one brighter than the other?
If yes, use the darker of the two on your display. Wrong option here means picture is washed out.
If both are the same, then use the one that looks brighter *for everything else. Wrong option here means picture has black crush.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFelafel View Post
My TV doesn't actually have any options for changing its RGB capabilities, which is why this is a problem in the first place for me. But seeing as I'm having to change my brightness when changing the range on my PS4, it very much sounds like my TV is limited to... limited.
If your TV does not provide the range option then it's almost certainly limited.
To add to Dominic Chan's post, if a display has a "PC" picture mode or setting, this SHOULD be full range RGB (0-255). Another benefit is these modes usually have 4:4:4 chroma.
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