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post #121 of 163 Old 01-16-2018, 01:15 AM
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@ConnecTEDDD

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. But what about my eye's perception of brightness, contrast etc. in different viewing environments? What kind of viewing environment do these default settings assume?
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post #122 of 163 Old 01-16-2018, 02:57 AM
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@ConnecTEDDD

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. But what about my eye's perception of brightness, contrast etc. in different viewing environments? What kind of viewing environment do these default settings assume?
Stuff are different with HDR from SDR.

In SDR we use Gamma curve as transfer function (where you can set it to 2.2/2.4/BT1886 or whatever value you like....having in calculation the display Black/Peak White level to generate each digital level luminance levels (so we check with Brightness/Contrast to setup the near black and prevent clipping of near and above 100% reference white), but in HDR the PQ Curve transfer function has fixed numbers from 0-10.000nits

There no contrast/brightness calibration for HDR, you leave the mode default values because based to these values the internal tone/gamut mapping is based.

So any pattern for contrast or brightness is only useful for evaluation purpose not for 'adjusting something' purpose.

PQ tracking has absolute levels, specific luminance values per digital level (10-bit) (defined by Dolby, same for HDR10/Dolby Vision).

If the display don't have 0 blacks and have 0.03 blacks, you just loose the details between 0 nits - 0.03 nits.

BT.2390 (which is a report, not standard) has a minLum parameter, to resolve black details to displays where don't have native 0 nits black, but this parameter is not used by consumer displays, they just clip.

See for example CalMAN 5 calculated luminance targets for ST.2084, based to Samsung UE55KS9000 measurement data (Black Level 0.039 nits - Peak White: 1460 nits), some near black will clip.



For SDR most of the movies are being mastered with 2.4 gamma and 100-120 nits now, but for day view (or with a room with a lot of lights), you can setup a memory with 250nits and 2.2 gamma.....you can't do the same with HDR, since it has absolute targets per grayscale step.
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post #123 of 163 Old 01-16-2018, 04:17 AM
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@ConnecTEDDD

Thank you again! You should sum up what you have just told me/us about HDR and Dolby Vision calibration somewhere more accessible than in these forum posts. I've been looking for information on these issues on Google and YouTube, but I have found none, which is quite strange considering how common HDR TVs have become.
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post #124 of 163 Old 01-16-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Thing is that we are using regular televisions and not pro studio monitors so we can only adjust as good as we can with what we have,when the limit is reached we have to let go,i know its annoying : ) but there is not much to do,i gonna go for the LG C8 when it comes out but im pretty sure there will be something on that tv as well that will annoy the **** out me : )


Edit: it seems you are using dE cie76uv and i am on dE2000,switch to dE2000 and watch what happens

Link: http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Delta_...lor_Difference
I switched to 2000 from 76uv and there was just about zero difference. I had read another thread on this forum where they argued about the formulas. Apparently dE2000 matters a lot more for color calibration but doesn't make much difference on grayscale only. Did you try tweaking color or using CMS on yours or you just did the grayscale?
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post #125 of 163 Old 01-17-2018, 10:55 AM
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Ok,i did try using cms on sdr picture but that only destroyed the picture,leave it alone,to get better skintones i use tint G2-G4 and color 48-49,in hdr i use all basic settings and cms untouched,looking forward for a C8 : )
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post #126 of 163 Old 02-11-2018, 06:05 AM
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I unfortunately don?t have the knowledge to calibrate my B6, but I do know that HDR10 content is all over the place. Compared to SDR the colors look off. Should I set it to warm 1 or w40, with color gamut wide? In this post I read about setting the color temp to medium with adjusting the RGB values, but which values are we talking about?

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post #127 of 163 Old 02-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
I unfortunately don?t have the knowledge to calibrate my B6, but I do know that HDR10 content is all over the place. Compared to SDR the colors look off. Should I set it to warm 1 or w40, with color gamut wide? In this post I read about setting the color temp to medium with adjusting the RGB values, but which values are we talking about?
Hi, what display model do you have? Calibration will require meters, patterns, software; to start practicing and learning how to calibrate each mode (SDR/HDR10), you can't perform any adjustment by eye (to HDR10 mode), you can try to setup your contrast/brightness/color clipping using a calibration disk for SDR mode only.

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post #128 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, what display model do you have? Calibration will require meters, patterns, software; to start practicing and learning how to calibrate each mode (SDR/HDR10), you can't perform any adjustment by eye (to HDR10 mode), you can try to setup your contrast/brightness/color clipping using a calibration disk for SDR mode only.


I own a 2016 LG OLED B6.

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post #129 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
I own a 2016 LG OLED B6.
Since there no plans for calibration, for HDR10, select HDR Standard, keep default settings, disable any dynamic contrast, and set Gamut to Wide, Color Temp to Warm2, disable any power save/eye comfort.

For SDR, use ISF Expert (Dark), (reduce OLED Light if it looks bright at night viewing) disable any dynamic contrast, and set Gamut to Normal, Color Temp to Warm2, disable any power save/eye comfort, set Gamma to 2.4.

For further adjustment for HDR10 you will need calibration with meter/software/HDR patterns.

For further adjustments for SDR, you can use a calibration disk to do contrast/brightness/color clipping setup/check (without meters) or to use meter/software/SDR patterns to perform complete calibration.
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post #130 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Since there no plans for calibration, for HDR10, select HDR Standard, keep default settings, disable any dynamic contrast, and set Gamut to Wide, Color Temp to Warm2, disable any power save/eye comfort.

For SDR, use ISF Expert (Dark), (reduce OLED Light if it looks bright at night viewing) disable any dynamic contrast, and set Gamut to Normal, Color Temp to Warm2, disable any power save/eye comfort, set Gamma to 2.4.

For further adjustment for HDR10 you will need calibration with meter/software/HDR patterns.

For further adjustments for SDR, you can use a calibration disk to do contrast/brightness/color clipping setup/check (without meters) or to use meter/software/SDR patterns to perform complete calibration.


Thanks a bunch!

For SDR I use the “cinema” setting at the moment with all enhancements off. There is something about this mode that’s somewhat more alive then ISF Expert dark mode.

For HDR I use the HDR Bright settings with all enhancements off, including dynamic contrast. I use this mode for the color temperature setting which I have on w40 at the moment.

What are your thoughts about these settings?

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post #131 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Thanks a bunch!

For SDR I use the “cinema” setting at the moment with all enhancements off. There is something about this mode that’s somewhat more alive then ISF Expert dark mode.

For HDR I use the HDR Bright settings with all enhancements off, including dynamic contrast. I use this mode for the color temperature setting which I have on w40 at the moment.

What are your thoughts about these settings?
I haven't measured the Cinema SDR mode to have any idea how it performs (without adjustments)

For HDR, I don't have any idea how it looks with W40.

Since you are unfamiliar with how calibration picture supposed to look, you are trying now settings which look better to your eyes. Its normal.

But calibration it's about following references and not based to personal preferences. For that reason you we use meters/software

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post #132 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
I haven't measured the Cinema SDR mode to have any idea how it performs (without adjustments)

For HDR, I don't have any idea how it looks with W40.

Since you are unfamiliar with how calibration picture supposed to look, you are trying now settings which look better to your eyes. Its normal.

But calibration it's about following references and not based to personal preferences. For that reason you we use meters/software


Thank you for your kind assistance without attacking me. I know it’s difficult for purist to talk about preference instead of reference.

If it’s not too much to ask, Is it possible for you to measure my settings and report back your findings? I know not all panels are the same, but I’m curious since I don’t have the measuring equipment to do it myself.

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post #133 of 163 Old 02-14-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Thank you for your kind assistance without attacking me. I know it’s difficult for purist to talk about preference instead of reference.

If it’s not too much to ask, Is it possible for you to measure my settings and report back your findings? I know not all panels are the same, but I’m curious since I don’t have the measuring equipment to do it myself.
These OLED's are very different from model to model, or region or manufactured batch or measure different if you have used the set for 10 / 200 / 500 hours.

Each set need unique settings, I don't have LG B6 to measure and suggest you something other

But if you invest to calibration, and learn how to calibrate, you will reveal as much as possible to 100% the performance of your display, so it will be like you got a new display.

See there for some introduction: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55567396

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post #134 of 163 Old 02-28-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Since there no plans for calibration, for HDR10, select HDR Standard, keep default settings, disable any dynamic contrast, and set Gamut to Wide, Color Temp to Warm2, disable any power save/eye comfort.
For HDR10 is color gamut supposed to be set to Wide or Normal? There is conflicting data on this.
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post #135 of 163 Old 02-28-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
For HDR10 is color gamut supposed to be set to Wide or Normal? There is conflicting data on this.
Hi, for the 2016 LG's, Normal for SDR and HDR10 also. If you see somewhere something different, is not correct. (Some are using Extended for SDR and reduce color slider to de-saturate, but it's not work to all TV regions around the world or different manufactured date models etc.)

You can use Wide for SDR when you will use an external 3D LUT Box to perform a display characterization and bypass internal TV calibration controls.

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post #136 of 163 Old 03-01-2018, 12:32 AM
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Hi, for the 2016 LG's, Normal for SDR and Wide for HDR10.
HDTVtest claim that you should use Normal for all content, because it is an auto function:
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post #137 of 163 Old 03-01-2018, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
For HDR10 is color gamut supposed to be set to Wide or Normal? There is conflicting data on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, for the 2016 LG's, Normal for SDR and Wide for HDR10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spennis View Post
HDTVtest claim that you should use Normal for all content, because it is an auto function.
Hey guys,

I just looked my measurements from LG E6, and Normal Gamut is the correct setting for HD10, here is the 5-Point Saturation of DCI-P3 inside a REC.2020:





I will correct my original post now, to prevent any incorrect adjustment, seems that I'm getting old and don't remember stuff well.
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post #138 of 163 Old 03-01-2018, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Spennis View Post
HDTVtest claim that you should use Normal for all content, because it is an auto function
Hi, just found my original post from 2016 where I recommended the Normal Gamut for HDR10 also: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post49378169

About the comparison between Wide - Normal for SDR, look here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post49513505

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post #139 of 163 Old 03-02-2018, 11:04 AM
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Exactly "Normal" color gamut at "55" should be "Automatic" color like on 2017's Oled's in HDR mode.

I choose in HDR to use "wide" gamut around 43/44 values should be almost similar at the default but with a slight preference in colorchecker.

Anyways this is my HDR standard (user) mode on my 55B6v at default warm2. I choose to leave it like that (almost at default) and look forward to my next future Oled UHDTV







Good enough to me



For SDR I use eecolor lightining lut on it and I got, after many months trying a free colour banding as well.







Good enough as well.


Not perfect and for sure should be possible to get it a bit more better, but maybe it worth only graphically, probably I'll can't notice small differences with my own eyes.

The most significant and important thing to me in a calibration should be free colour banding for a SDR 3DLUT and artifacts posteration problems. Reduce microblocks as well and get a good near black as possible, definitely hard with our 2016's Oled's at 130Nits.

Cheers

Leo.

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Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
Exactly "Normal" color gamut at "55" should be "Automatic" color like on 2017's Oled's in HDR mode.



I choose in HDR to use "wide" gamut around 43/44 values should be almost similar at the default but with a slight preference in colorchecker.



Anyways this is my HDR standard (user) mode on my 55B6v at default warm2. I choose to leave it like that (almost at default) and look forward to my next future Oled UHDTV















Good enough to me







For SDR I use eecolor lightining lut on it and free colour banding as well.















Good enough as well.





Not perfect and for sure should be possible to get it a bit more better, but maybe it worth only graphically, probably I can't notice small differences.



The most significant and important thing to me in a calibration should be free colour banding for a SDR 3DLUT and artifacts posteration problems. Reduce microblocks as well and get a good near black as possible, definitely hard with our 2016 Oled at 130Nits.



Cheers



Leo.





Thank you for this! Is it possible for you to post your complete settings so I can try it out?

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post #141 of 163 Old 03-02-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Thank you for this! Is it possible for you to post your complete settings so I can try it out?

Yes, for sure as like everyone in here said for HDR mode it's better don't touch the 20 points values. I can confirm colorations in grey ramp came out.

So I decided to use the "Standard HDR (User)" mode almost at default values just decrease color to 43 and set wide gamut. Everything else is off like dynamic contrast etc..

For SDR mode I use an ISF. I decrease contrast to 74 and Oled light 38 then I use brightness at 54 ( set RGB signals like a Raspberry pi3 pattern generator and video chain like BD Player. only use it at 52 if you will use Ycbrc set on your player, only B6 series) in combination with gamma at 1.9 then I set 2p low to switch off the display R-8 G-8 B-16 and get true blacks again. then 2p high R-15 G-18 B 0 to match RGB balanced and get 130Nits. Then color at 50 wide gamut, This is my starting point to use with the Eecolor (3DLUT box) in combination with CalMAN software 17 R2. I created a lightning lut with sliding power gamma 2,35 with 0,002cd/m2 Black. This was the only way for me to get free color Banding after 3DLUT and also to preserve the near black open (see black tunnel on Ted Disk should be visible until 18% and tridimensional as posible all levels smooth as possible)

Is possible to use this base as a starting point as well for a manual calibration too after that you will need to use the 20p white balance control to set gamma at 2.30 using Luminance and RGB at the same time to get a RGB balanced and nice gamma curve at 2.30 power law. Then you can choose others gamut like extended at 43 or 46 dipend of what are your final results and see the best choice to do visually speaking not only graphically.

P.S: I don't use the CMS because I can't notice differences in real content just I saw strange strings in a color ramp horizontal and vertical partern, so I decided to leave it alone and don't use it at all in a manual calibration.
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post #142 of 163 Old 05-25-2018, 08:52 AM
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Sorry if this has been asked before but which 2 HDR patterns are people using to calibrate the 2pt medium in the service menu?
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post #143 of 163 Old 07-19-2018, 03:17 PM
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Am I the only one who prefers the look of Warm 3??
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post #144 of 163 Old 07-19-2018, 10:07 PM
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Am I the only one who prefers the look of Warm 3??


No, you’re not the only one. I use it too since a couple of days, it just seems more accurate. Although I think that with HDR content the peak luminance will be lower because of it.

But for SDR content, gaming and HDR I think warm3 looks the most natural. The colors are better too because of it.

But what I would like to know is if DV content also benifits from warm3?

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post #145 of 163 Old 07-20-2018, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JRobinson84 View Post
Am I the only one who prefers the look of Warm 3??
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
No, you’re not the only one. I use it too since a couple of days, it just seems more accurate. Although I think that with HDR content the peak luminance will be lower because of it.

But for SDR content, gaming and HDR I think warm3 looks the most natural. The colors are better too because of it.

But what I would like to know is if DV content also benifits from warm3?
Hi guys,

When you are checking the color temperature modes of a consumer display, each setting (warm1/warm2/warm3,cool etc) it doesn't mean anything, they are just some uncalibrated presets which doesn't follow any target white point standard, they are all uncalibrated modes.

While one of them will look more neutral to your eyes (when someone don't have instrument to measure and see which is the most accurate), its only a guess and personal choice of someone (without meter) which one believes its more correct. Calibration has to do with standards and references and not user preferences. But when someone don't have instruments to measure with software and see, the only he can do is to display a grayscale ramp and swap between selections, then decide which looks more neutral for him.

If you even take 5 samples of the same consumer TV model, these presets they will not matching also, when you will compare them visually or measuring them, that's why coping-pasting of calibrated TV settings is not working. Each sample of the same panel is different (for many reasons), so it needs it's own calibration.

Warm1/Warm2/Cool...don't say nothing unless you will measure them with instruments.

It happens (the most times) that the Warm1/2 to be more closer mode to D65 White Point, so for someone without measuring instruments, he choosing one of those modes, these factory modes as selections are still providing uncalibrated picture.

So Warm1/2 is still un-calibrated but closer to ideal.

When you have meters/software, it can happen a very old/cheap instrument to report that Warm1 is closer to D65 and a more expensive reference $10.000 instrument (or a brand new consumer) to report that Warm2 is closer preset to D65.

The reason where most of the times you (the DIY or Pro calibrators) are choosing Warm1/2 is because one of those presets will require less adjustment of the available calibration controls of a display during calibration.

When you have instruments/software, you can even make the cool preset to match D65 White point, just it's better make less adjustments while you calibrating because some times large adjustments of the sliders can introduce problems like distortions, discolorations, clipping, banding, posterization....etc.

Even having only your White Point calibrated perfectly, still doesn't mean that your picture will be good, you can still have sunburned skintones and vivid colors, unless you have meter/software to calibrated the Color Gamut also (and Gamma). This can happen because while your grayscale will be perfect, the color gamut can be completely different, for example when you watch SDR movie with a OLED native gamut which has primaries closer to DCI-P3 colorspace that from REC.709 colorspace of SDR movies.

We use D65 (which has been created with specific mixture of RGB...see below) which has 6504K because this is the white point the movies has been mastered (BD/UHD).

Each colorspace (REC.709 for BD / REC.2020 for UHD) while they have the same xy coordinates to create the D65, it's using different mixture of colors...while they have 6504K.

You can have 6504K temperature with different RGB channels mixture.

When you are using a meter/calibration software but you check only the Color Temperature Chart for the Grayscale, while the Color Temperature Graph can be perfect, the same time the RGB Balance Chart can be off.

This is happening because just a number 6504K is not the same as when we say D65 for a specific colorspace.

When you see the RGB Balance Chart of a calibration software and you see the three (R/G/B) Channels Bars at exact 100% = 0 dE; doesn't mean that you have used equal percentage of each color channel.

The calibration software it's doing the normalizing internally according to the selected colorspace target options to give you better presentation for easier calibration.



D65 White Point for REC.709 (BD Movies) Color Space is using Red 21.27%, Green 71.52%, Blue 7.22% which gives 6504K.

REC.601 (PAL...EU DVD) D65: Red 22.20%, Green 70.67%, Blue 7.13% which gives 6504K.

REC.601 (NTSC... US DVD) D65: Red 21.24%, Green 70.11%, Blue 8.66% which gives 6504K.

REC.2020 (UltraHD Movies) D65: Red 26.27%, Green 67.80%, Blue 5.93% which gives 6504K.

All these colorspaces are using D65 as reference white point.
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post #146 of 163 Old 07-20-2018, 08:57 AM
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Nice, thanks for the clarification.

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post #147 of 163 Old 08-13-2018, 08:04 AM
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Calibrating HDR10 on LG OLED

So I have found new settings on the B6 HDR Standard Mode. Yes with the following settings I understand it blows up highlights and stuff, but please try these settings for HDR content, it will blow you away:

HDR Standard
OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 20
Color: 60
Dynamic Contrast: Medium (helps)
Color gamut: WIDE
Color temperature: Warm 3

All other enhancements off.

The colors, the contrast. It’s how I think it should be.

I matched the picture settings (colors and contrast) to my iPhone X. The source was an UHD ISO playing through the Infuse app. (On my iPhone and on the Apple TV 4K).I’ve used still images and moving images side by side.

The reason why I used my iPhone X is because of Apple’s excellent screen calibration. See this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ole...r-tested%3famp

Also:

“The result: Apple has produced an impressive Smartphone display with excellent performance and accuracy, which we cover in extensive detail below. What makes the iPhone X the Best Smartphone Display is the impressive Precision Display Calibration Apple developed, which transforms the OLED hardware into a superbly accurate, high performance, and gorgeous display, with close to Text Book Perfect Calibration and Performance!!”

To the eye both pictures matched when it comes to colors, dark/bright highlights and contrast.

Dynamic contrast in hdr mode helps with smoothing out colors and dark highlights.

Since there is still no standard in HDR I think these are the best settings till date.

Klipsch Reference Premiere: 4 x RP-280's, 1 x RP 450C, 4x RP-500SA’s and dual R-115W's
Marantz 7011 AVR
LG OLED C9 65 inch
Apple TV 4K
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post #148 of 163 Old 08-15-2018, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
So I have found new settings on the B6 HDR Standard Mode. Yes with the following settings I understand it blows up highlights and stuff, but please try these settings for HDR content, it will blow you away:

HDR Standard
OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 20
Color: 60
Dynamic Contrast: Medium (helps)
Color gamut: WIDE
Color temperature: Warm 3

All other enhancements off.

The colors, the contrast. It’s how I think it should be.

I matched the picture settings (colors and contrast) to my iPhone X. The source was an UHD ISO playing through the Infuse app. (On my iPhone and on the Apple TV 4K).I’ve used still images and moving images side by side.

The reason why I used my iPhone X is because of Apple’s excellent screen calibration. See this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ole...r-tested%3famp

Also:

“The result: Apple has produced an impressive Smartphone display with excellent performance and accuracy, which we cover in extensive detail below. What makes the iPhone X the Best Smartphone Display is the impressive Precision Display Calibration Apple developed, which transforms the OLED hardware into a superbly accurate, high performance, and gorgeous display, with close to Text Book Perfect Calibration and Performance!!”

To the eye both pictures matched when it comes to colors, dark/bright highlights and contrast.

Dynamic contrast in hdr mode helps with smoothing out colors and dark highlights.

Since there is still no standard in HDR I think these are the best settings till date.
Hi, the whole calibration content is based on trying to follow some standards using instruments and software, following some references, not based to our preferences. HDR10 has standards about what colorspace (REC.2020) and what white point (REC.2020 D65) and what transfer functions (PQ curve) to have as targets when you will calibrate with s/w and meters.

Just the tone/gamut mapping (for the content the TV can't display, in peak output levels up to 10000nits...where to clip (soft/hard) or apply what type of roll-off) about how to to use the static metadata each movie is sending, about these two capabilities, each display/model can have different approach, for that 2 the decisions are different per model/brand.

You don't have control to adjust what your TV can't display in nit level, for that reason you need to let the internal tone mapping to do the job as its programmed from the LG engineers, for that reason you need to not change the Contrast/Brightness/OLED Light/Color, all these controls need to have the default values because these default values are working as 'bypass' for the internal tone/gamut gamut mapping to work as designed.

For that reason for HDR, the HDR calibration patterns (contrast/brightness/color clipping) should not be used from the user to apply any control adjustment (like we do in SDR mode), but only to visually check how display performs.

The dynamic mode has to be Off also, because all that dynamic processing of each frame (of newer LG's) (or fixed decisions of your LG) the manufacturers are adding... all these are destroying the communication of the director's intent in any kind of authentic way.

About iPhone X, I have measured a lot different iPhone models screens, I can say that I haven't found any model to be accurate.

Displaymate is measuring with a hybrid meter (something between a colorimeter & spectroradiometer), it has only 40 sensors to measure the whole spectral range, so it's optical resolution is about 10-15nm, see there: http://www.jeti.com/cms/images/jeti_...otes/an_19.pdf

I used a JETI 1211 spectroradiometer which has 4.5nm optical resolution and 2048 sensors.

For pattern generation, I used CalMAN with MobileForge, taking non-contact measurement (disabled Auto-Dim in iPhone, set at max brightness, no auto-lock) using a custom calibration extention tube for this reason (ala NIST) where at one side I had the JETI and to the other side it has placed each iphone, so it was not possible for any external from environment light (notebook screen) to affect the measurement; in an already light controlled room.

I have tested two i1Phone X, where bought the same time, so they had similar panel aging.

Lets start with SPD (Spectral Power Distribution Curves) of the White, the colored is the white spectrum of first iPhone X and the wireframe is the same measurement with the second iPhone, as you see there differences, so there unit-per-unit variations of the performance.



Here are the results, validated with 5-Point Saturation (100% Stimulus Level), REC709 colorspace, target gamma 2.2.

iPhone X (Sample 1):



iPhone X (Sample 2):



There differences to peak output, to gamut coverage and saturation tracking. While both have color errors average 2.0x dE, its not the same colors.

iPhone 7 and SE were more accurate about their color accuracy than iPhone X, as you see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post55263488
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post #149 of 163 Old 08-15-2018, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, the whole calibration content is based on trying to follow some standards using instruments and software, following some references, not based to our preferences. HDR10 has standards about what colorspace (REC.2020) and what white point (REC.2020 D65) and what transfer functions (PQ curve) to have as targets when you will calibrate with s/w and meters.

Just the tone/gamut mapping (for the content the TV can't display, in peak output levels up to 10000nits...where to clip (soft/hard) or apply what type of roll-off) about how to to use the static metadata each movie is sending, about these two capabilities, each display/model can have different approach, for that 2 the decisions are different per model/brand.

You don't have control to adjust what your TV can't display in nit level, for that reason you need to let the internal tone mapping to do the job as its programmed from the LG engineers, for that reason you need to not change the Contrast/Brightness/OLED Light/Color, all these controls need to have the default values because these default values are working as 'bypass' for the internal tone/gamut gamut mapping to work as designed.

For that reason for HDR, the HDR calibration patterns (contrast/brightness/color clipping) should not be used from the user to apply any control adjustment (like we do in SDR mode), but only to visually check how display performs.

The dynamic mode has to be Off also, because all that dynamic processing of each frame (of newer LG's) (or fixed decisions of your LG) the manufacturers are adding... all these are destroying the communication of the director's intent in any kind of authentic way.

About iPhone X, I have measured a lot different iPhone models screens, I can say that I haven't found any model to be accurate.

Displaymate is measuring with a hybrid meter (something between a colorimeter & spectroradiometer), it has only 40 sensors to measure the whole spectral range, so it's optical resolution is about 10-15nm, see there: http://www.jeti.com/cms/images/jeti_...otes/an_19.pdf

I used a JETI 1211 spectroradiometer which has 4.5nm optical resolution and 2048 sensors.

For pattern generation, I used CalMAN with MobileForge, taking non-contact measurement (disabled Auto-Dim in iPhone, set at max brightness, no auto-lock) using a custom calibration extention tube for this reason (ala NIST) where at one side I had the JETI and to the other side it has placed each iphone, so it was not possible for any external from environment light (notebook screen) to affect the measurement; in an already light controlled room.

I have tested two i1Phone X, where bought the same time, so they had similar panel aging.

Lets start with SPD (Spectral Power Distribution Curves) of the White, the colored is the white spectrum of first iPhone X and the wireframe is the same measurement with the second iPhone, as you see there differences, so there unit-per-unit variations of the performance.



Here are the results, validated with 5-Point Saturation (100% Stimulus Level), REC709 colorspace, target gamma 2.2.

iPhone X (Sample 1):



iPhone X (Sample 2):



There differences to peak output, to gamut coverage and saturation tracking. While both have color errors average 2.0x dE, its not the same colors.

iPhone 7 and SE were more accurate about their color accuracy than iPhone X, as you see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post55263488


Thank you so much for your detailed explanation and the time to respond. Very useful information.

So to make a long story short, I shouldn’t touch or adjust any of the settings in the HDR modes?

How about the HDR game mode? I see that LG chose a wide color gamut setting instead of normal. Also they have a color temperature setting of C30. Why is that?

What are the best settings according to you for movies and video games content?

Klipsch Reference Premiere: 4 x RP-280's, 1 x RP 450C, 4x RP-500SA’s and dual R-115W's
Marantz 7011 AVR
LG OLED C9 65 inch
Apple TV 4K
PlayStation Pro
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post #150 of 163 Old 08-15-2018, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation and the time to respond. Very useful information.

So to make a long story short, I shouldn’t touch or adjust any of the settings in the HDR modes?

How about the HDR game mode? I see that LG chose a wide color gamut setting instead of normal. Also they have a color temperature setting of C30. Why is that?

What are the best settings according to you for movies and video games content?
For HDR10, use ISF Mode, disable Dynamic Mode, the only stuff you can change is the RGB balance, but you need a meter to measure Warm 2 and Warm 3 and see which color temp mode has less errors, so based to the mode with less errors to start adjusting RGB balance to reduce your errors.

All TV modes are just uncalibrated modes, some are more un-calibrated from others, Game mode is super-uncalibrated for example, the Wide gamut will expand all colors saturation tracking for the colors to look more colorful and gamers will be excited. For your TV Normal gamut is the correct option for SDR or HDR10.

The Movie/ISF modes of that (and any displays) are the most accurate uncalibrated modes, so from all modes they have the less errors.

Each display is unique, it requires different settings.

When you don't have meter/software with SDR, you can use a calibration disk to check some stuff, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56609032

When you don't have meter/software with HDR, you can't do anything with a calibration disk.... just select what color temp mode looks more accurate to your eyes, but that is guessing, since without meter you don't know how D65 look like.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration S/W: LightSpace ZRO / HCFR
S/W: ColourSpace INF, LightSpace XTP, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, ChromaPure
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box P/G: Murideo Six-G, DVDO AVLab TPG
Meter: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A
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