LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 104 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3091 of 3111 Old 12-25-2018, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
I'm still confused about two things with the C7...I've read many posts with differing opinions on this...right now I have Sharpness set to 10 across all modes and Edge Enhancer turned ON for all modes...is there a definitive answer to this:

1) what should Sharpness be set to?...meaning what is the best setting is with no additional Sharpness added to the image...normally the answer would be 0 (zero) but many people on here have stated to keep it at 10 because anything below 10 softens the image...even a well known calibrator on here stated to keep it at 10 ( @jrref )...is 10 the correct setting?

2) Edge Enhancer...this is another one giving me a headache...earlier in this thread some people tested this and stated that Edge Enhancer OFF disables the Sharpness control and Edge Enhancer ON enables the Sharpness control...somebody tested it with all the Picture Modes and stated the following: "Set Sharpness to 0 and then switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF and you'll see no change to the picture. Next, max out Sharpness to 50. Now switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF. You'll see a normal unsharpened image with OFF and ugly sharpening with ON. If you want to bypass artificial sharpening, keep Edge Enhancer OFF"

the 2nd question goes hand in hand with my first question about Sharpness...so if I set Sharpness to 10 and disable EE then that means that my Sharpness setting of 10 will not be recognized...I hope some of the experts on here can give me a definitive answer to these questions...thanks!
Hi, use a sharpness pattern and test the settings, its very easy to find out what is happening.

LG has informed about this recommendation: ''The ‘Edge Enhancer’ setting in the Expert Picture Mode Settings does not increase sharpness; the default ‘On’ setting is a bypass function, and is therefore recommended''

Probably LG want to say that in Expert mode this setting is not working, so even if you set it to OK, that enhancement (which amplifies the high-frequency components of a signal) processing is bypassed. I haven't checked if it makes any difference (On/Off) to other modes.

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post #3092 of 3111 Old 12-25-2018, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
Can anyone comment on what the most accurate correction file is for DisplayCal?
Hi, There is a CCSS LG OLED 2017 spectral correction table for i1Display PRO instrument users, it will work from ColorMunki Display also. (both meters can read spectral corrections).

But when you are using CCSS correction, you assume that the internal spectral data of X-Rite meter from the factory hasn't drifted, since the internal meter spectra + CCSS spectra data are used to create a correction matrix.

Don't use any other user CCMX file for LG OLED, it will not work, only if you have your own meters combo (colorimeter+spectro) for creating a matrix based correction (CCMX = Colorimeter Correction Matrix) which will be only valid for your current meters/display.

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post #3093 of 3111 Old 12-25-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, There is a CCSS LG OLED 2017 spectral correction table for i1Display PRO instrument users, it will work from ColorMunki Display also. (both meters can read spectral corrections).

But when you are using CCSS correction, you assume that the internal spectral data of X-Rite meter from the factory hasn't drifted, since the internal meter spectra + CCSS spectra data are used to create a correction matrix.

Don't use any other user CCMX file for LG OLED, it will not work, only if you have your own meters combo (colorimeter+spectro) for creating a matrix based correction (CCMX = Colorimeter Correction Matrix) which will be only valid for your current meters/display.
Just so I'm clear, are you talking about the WRGB_OLED_LG.ccss that is included with HCFR? I used that last week and am pretty happy with the results.
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post #3094 of 3111 Old 12-25-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you are applying such large adjustments with LG CMS, always use a color ramp pattern to validate for issues.

A good way of testing what is happening with CMS adjustments enabled/disabled, is to copy paste all your ISF-Dark settings to ISF-Bright, including all 2/20-Point RGB balance but not copy CMS settings. Then using TV remote swap between the 2 picture modes while you will display some color ramp patterns to see if the picture mode with CMS adjustments is adding banding/false contouring/clipping or other issues.

Thanks for that useful tip. Where can I get the colour ramp patterns from. I am using HCFR with AVCHD709 patterns in MP4 on USB stick.
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post #3095 of 3111 Old 12-25-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Terry B View Post
Thanks for that useful tip. Where can I get the colour ramp patterns from. I am using HCFR with AVCHD709 patterns in MP4 on USB stick.
If I remember well, AVSHD has color steps patterns, not color ramps.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post56539952

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57237412

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post #3096 of 3111 Old 01-11-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by P40L0 View Post
An update for LG 2017 OLEDs - Calibrated Settings for Xbox One X / Gaming:

  • Added V5 - EXPERIMENTAL HDR Game profile tuned for HIGH Dynamic Contrast: it's a totally new proposal for a MUCH brighter HDR (even more bright than HDR Technicolor with Active HDR) trying also to eredicate most of HIGH DC negative effects and be as accurate as possible at the same time. FEEDBACK IS WELCOMED

To eliminate/compensate HIGH Dynamic Contrast negative effects on PQ:

EDIT (14/12/2018):
  • Raised Brightness from 50 to 53: this will fix most introduced black crush, while some will remain very slightly. It's the highest value that can be set before loosing "perfect blacks" of OLEDs;
  • Color Gamut set from Auto to WIDE + Color 44: when DC is set to High, I noticed that Auto color gamut will suddenly show wrong/muted colors (especially muted oranges/yellows and magenta) and all of them become undersaturated. Switching to WIDE made oranges/yellows back to normal, and considering WIDE is oversaturated with same settings compared to Auto, setting its Color to 44 gave back a very comparable accuracy to Technicolor
  • Color Temperature is back to W50

I'm very impressed by far with this new experiment, as I was able to achieve an even brighter image than HDR Technicolor with Active HDR, but with no highlights clipping (typical of PC HDR Standard) and mostly accurate colors. The only visible downside is a very very slight black crush, that can not be fixed without losing also perfect blacks, but it's not bad at all.

Both Battlefield V and Forza Horizon 4 look mind blowing with this new setup, but any FEEDBACK to further improve it is always welcomed.

Give it a spin and let me know what you think
Can I use your settings with Apple TV or Nvidia Shield source? Thank you for sharing!
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post #3097 of 3111 Old 01-13-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
When performing the 2 point HDR calibration. What are the recommend points? Is it still 30 & 80 like SDR?
Bump

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post #3098 of 3111 Old 01-13-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tucker Smash View Post
Bump

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For SDR only 100 High then 20 points. For HDR I do 100/30. Only subtract.

LG OLED 55 B7v | LG SK10Y Soundbar | Samsung 55KS8000 | LG Plasma 50PZ550 | i1D3 OEM | Calman Enthusiast

Last edited by MrRobotoPlus; 01-13-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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post #3099 of 3111 Old 01-16-2019, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tucker Smash View Post
Bump
100% is 10000nits, the display is already clipping at that level, try to use a lower percentage like 70% (which is 619 nits) or 65% (which is 389 nits) to fix only RGB balance errors or take a full grayscale sweep and then apply the RGB-High adjustments you believe they will reduce your White Balance errors at the top end of your grayscale.

With HDR mode is not a good idea to keep the same pattern (with high luminance) static for real-time adjustments, because the panel's are unstable at HDR10 it's better idea to display the pattern you like to measure and after measuring it... to display a black pattern (or 5/10% Gray) and then open the LG OSD to apply the adjustments you believe they will reduce your errors. (so the panel will cool down).

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post #3100 of 3111 Old 01-16-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
100% is 10000nits, the display is already clipping at that level, try to use a lower percentage like 70% (which is 619 nits) or 65% (which is 389 nits) to fix only RGB balance errors or take a full grayscale sweep and then apply the RGB-High adjustments you believe they will reduce your White Balance errors at the top end of your grayscale.

With HDR mode is not a good idea to keep the same pattern (with high luminance) static for real-time adjustments, because the panel's are unstable at HDR10 it's better idea to display the pattern you like to measure and after measuring it... to display a black pattern (or 5/10% Gray) and then open the LG OSD to apply the adjustments you believe they will reduce your errors. (so the panel will cool down).
So you're recommending a 70/30 point rgb adjustment?

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post #3101 of 3111 Old 01-17-2019, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tucker Smash View Post
So you're recommending a 70/30 point rgb adjustment?
You can test and see what way works better with your display, but always check color reproduction patterns and real content, because large adjustments can introduce issues.

If 70%/30% or 70% only or 65% only works, post your results of the method you followed.

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post #3102 of 3111 Old 02-07-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You can test and see what way works better with your display, but always check color reproduction patterns and real content, because large adjustments can introduce issues.

If 70%/30% or 70% only or 65% only works, post your results of the method you followed.
When looking at your color ramps vertical and horizontal, what am I looking for? Is it just a smooth gradation of color that I want?

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post #3103 of 3111 Old 02-11-2019, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tucker Smash View Post
When looking at your color ramps vertical and horizontal, what am I looking for? Is it just a smooth gradation of color that I want?
Hi Tucker,

There 2x Color Ramps Horizontal/Vertical, you can find them to the Color Reproduction Page 5.






There models from Sharp/Toshiba/LG, were they have problematic CMS controls, they are not designed well, each CMS setting has its own 'safe working range' (for example +-2 max) where you can adjust without to introduce to you issues with real content. Even specific combination of adjustments between different calibration controls can introduce banding/posterization/false contouring/noise/distortions/no smooth gradation, clipping etc...

When you performing CMS calibration, start with Primary Colors, and when R,G,B promaries are fine, then move to secondary colors.

But always check if there issues with gradation after the CMS or grayscale adjustment, using gray/color ramps patterns.

After the end of your grayscale adjustment display a grayscale ramp pattern to see if there no any strange color tint and that your grayscale gradation is OK.

Then before starting your CMS adjustments display a color ramp (look here an example of issues) to see about your color gradation and at this stage change randomly some CMS adjustments controls to see if they are introduce any error to your color ramps, if you see that all are fine (until at a specific adjustment range +-5 for example) reset the CMS and then start your measurements to improve your CMS. At the end of your CMS adjustments display again a color ramp pattern to see that all are fine, then recheck again your grayscale for micro-adjustments.

There some LG models where their 'Luminance' controls are adding some issues, see there an example: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post45436297

For that reason you have to always check color gradients/ramps after performing adjustments and then using actual Blu-Ray movie content.

A good pattern to quickly reveal issues before spending some time with real movies and while you have your meters connected and calibration software open to decide quickly what to do next...are these Color Ramps Vertical/Horizontal patterns, BTW Vincent from HDTVtest.co.uk are using them also (see 5:11):



Because of these issues coming from poor design of CMS processing (or complex/huge usage of calibration controls); by only looking the post-calibration low dE numbers is not enough to guarantee to you a successful calibrated picture, for that reason, calibration 'art' is required, beyond instruments and measurements, to make these displays look and measure good the same time.

Here are some user findings testing these patterns:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post52261769

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post50194449

About your CMS adjustments, beyond charts, take a look a these gradation pattern with CMS adjustment ON/OFF to verify that no issues are introduced by using these controls.
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post #3104 of 3111 Old 02-19-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by latet View Post
Spectracal is out there, call them and ask them to recommend someone. That OTC-1000 is very old technology, not to say that it's bad or anything. Just that things have come quite a ways since that meter came out.

You can also check the ISF site. Look under the dealers header.

Following up on my earlier post, I got Kris Deering to come out and do a new calibration and the results are sensational, night and day to my previous issues.

Some of you will remember Kris from his association with Sound and Vision and Home Theater magazine. His new website is http://www.deepdiveav.com/ - he's in the Seattle area but travels as well.

Highly recommended, he knows what he is doing and has the equipment and dedication to getting the optimal results!
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post #3105 of 3111 Old 02-23-2019, 08:32 AM
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After playing A LOT of new, additional HDR contents (Games, 4K HDR/Blu-Rays, 4K/HDR Streaming) using HDR Game v5.3.2, I decided it's now time to do a partial step back from High Dynamic Contrast suggestion...
If High DC performed GREAT in many occasion with HDR Game (brighting up noticeable dimmer sequences, especially in particular movies and games' static menus and HUD), it showed too much color artifacts, black crush and/or highlights clipping to be considered universally accurate now.

Therefore, I updated again the HDR Game profile to v5.5:

  • Going back to Dynamic Contrast: MEDIUM
  • Going back to Brightness 50 (no need to raise it outside High DC)
  • Going back to Color Gamut: AUTO
  • Raising Color value to 60 (to offset a slight color desaturation of Medium DC)

This provided a consistent, more accurate calibration for an universal, mixed usage of HDR Game profile.

Cheers
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post #3106 of 3111 Old 02-26-2019, 03:13 PM
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Has anybody calibrated hlg on these oleds? On my b7a, the white balance is not carried over from the hdr picture modes and the controls are locked up. This is a problem since my tv has a green tint in the grayscale which can be fixed only using the white balance controls. It's not a big deal yet but I'm thinking of getting direct tv which uses hlg for its 4k hdr broadcasting.
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post #3107 of 3111 Old 04-04-2019, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nodtmf View Post
Hi,

Here are my HDR settings after calibration setting on my 65B7. (I said I would post about a month ago...been busy)
TV is about a year old
Using Calman Business bundle and Technicolor mode on the TV. For calibration everything off.

My largest issue is with Red, could not fix it with CMS. I checked with content I caught from a studio colorist to see if anything as wacked as it seems my 20 point greyscale is extreme.
Looked comparable to the $30K monitor.

I will go back through this thread and others to see if I figure why my Red seems so recalcitrant.

I may go and touch up the midrange greyscale.

20Point
Format Level, R,G,B

277 0,0,0
345 0,0,0
412 -3,-1,1
446 -12-9-11
480 -18,-14,16
498 -27,-23,-30
513 -26,-23,-25
530 -33,-26,28
544 -33,-29,-31
561 -39,-32,-35
571 -43,-36,-44
584 -45,-39,-44
604 -43,-40,-40
617 -45,-42,-45
632 -45,-36,-42
647 -45,-41,-44
663 -45,-39,-41
678 -40,-32,-40
693 -45,-37,-44
1023 -5,6,-2

CMS
Format Color S,T,L
Red 0,0,0 Nothing I did here did anything much, so left it a 0 in fear of it messing something up
Green 20,30,17
Blue 9,0,5
Cyan 14,-5,12
Magenta 5,0,6
Yellow 6,2,12
could u share what issues were u seeing on your B7 for red color?

I'm using the C7 and recently started to calibrate it for SDR. After SDR calibration, some white patterns looks pinkish for some reason and I CANNOT SOLVE it.

Last edited by sevenz; 04-04-2019 at 04:02 AM.
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post #3108 of 3111 Old 04-04-2019, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You can test and see what way works better with your display, but always check color reproduction patterns and real content, because large adjustments can introduce issues.

If 70%/30% or 70% only or 65% only works, post your results of the method you followed.
Hi guys, *wave* thanks for this great thread.

Need some help over here. I'm very new here to display calibration.

I've just completed SDR calibration, so now moving on to HD calibration.

But the HDR calibration seems quite different from SDR and more complicated than i can understand....


My Equipment: LG OLED 65C7, Chromapure, Xrite Display 3 Pro meter, Ray Masciola's HDR patterns.


Qn 1) I understand i need to calibrate HDR white level to output of 540 nits for 100% white. Do i need to set the peak white output level to 540 nits before i move on to greyscale calibration? But i understand that anything above 65%, there are issues? How do i do that?


Qn 2) For SDR, on the initial 2-point calibration on the white levels, i use IRE20 on my TV with a 20% grey pattern, and IRE80 on my TV with a 80% grey pattern. Then I go to and fro before I move onto 12 point calibration. For HDR, what do i use for the 2-point calibration and what pattern should i use for the high and low point? Understand that above 65% video it is crap.


Qn 3) Can someone help me understand, what is happening to video above 60-65% grey that renders it problematic? I still can't get a hang of the technicalities. It just goes over my head. haha...


Qn 4) LG released some custom values for the 2017 OLEDs. How should i use this and must it be used for HDR calibration?


Qn 5) Is 21-point calibration necessary for HDR and also SDR; or can i just do a 12 point? Currently for SDR, I'm just doing a 2-point followed by a 12 point.




Thanks in advance!

Last edited by sevenz; 04-04-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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post #3109 of 3111 Old 04-14-2019, 05:25 PM
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Alternative HDR Game Mode Settings

I think I've found something that no one seems to have realized. It's nowhere in the forums that I can find, and Rtings haven't noted it.

As known, it can be annoying when some HDR content in Game HDR mode looks substantially dimmer than Cinema HDR mode (and Technicolor Expert Mode) can when Active HDR is on (Active HDR = Dynamic Contrast set to low). Game mode has a very minimal input latency, so it's not easy to give up. Under high precision PC gaming it feels great even when side by side with a 1ms TN panel.

I have found when using "Home Theater" HDMI label for HDR content using "Cinema Home" preset and disabling all processing options can produce a similar low input lag... even while Active HDR10 is on (Dynamic Contrast Low). What seems to be causing the vast majority of lag is when Real Cinema is ON, which can't be disabled in the "Cinema" and "Expert" modes, but can be disabled under the "Cinema Home" mode. That Real Cinema setting introduces tons of lag.

For SDR, the same applies to the Technicolor Expert mode which is the only option outside of Game Mode that lets you disable Real Cinema.

Performance doesn't seem to be quiiiite as fast as Game Mode or "PC" input icon mode, but it's definitely acceptable and far better than the poor looking Game mode and default input lag.

Another oddity is that when comparing HDR console titles with HDR PC titles, PC titles are almost always brighter, even in HDR Game mode. Here are titles I've noticed:

PS4 PRO:
Horizon Zero Dawn (Game Mode HDR, relatively dim)
Spiderman (Game Mode HDR, Relatively dim).
The Last of Us (Game Mode, very dim to the point of being disappointing. Active HDR dramatically increases ABL. Controls are super acceptable with custom Home Cinema settings and Active HDR enabled).

Xbox One X:
Forza 4 (Game Mode HDR, relatively dim)

RTX 2080 Ti PC:
Forza 4 (Game Mode HDR looks amazing, active HDR rarely increases ABL (Average Brightness Level).
Farcry 5 (Game Mode HDR looks amazing - probably the best.. not even compelled to tinker with Active HDR it looks so contrasty.
Assassins Creed Odyssey (Game Mode HDR, amazing)

I suspect that consoles, even their "pro" variants process HDR in a lower fidelity way than PC GPUs. This was also true on my 1080Ti.

Has anyone been able to test the input response changes between all menu settings with a Leo Bodnar tool? I'm only going off controller and mouse responsiveness in games and on desktop.

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Last edited by JustaPlacebo; 04-14-2019 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typos
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post #3110 of 3111 Old 04-15-2019, 08:35 AM
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hi @JustaPlacebo , its been a while!!

yes was you said was very discussed years ago, Cinema Home with post disabled produces a less input lag that normal modes, but some pros say that the reduced lag was minimum others evens ay that was the same.

at the end, many peolple ditched it because "its doesnt feels like game mode"

also about the brightness, yes, this was also very discussed back in the day, the problem its that consoles dont send any kind of metadata to the tv, its all made by the tv(and OLEDs assume 4000nits for eveything) this make the image very dim on consoles, in order to preserve all the detail.

PC Games send static 1000nits metadata to the tv, making it way more brigther that consoles.

all of this was discussed in more focused gaming forums like NEOgaf or Resetera.
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post #3111 of 3111 Old 04-15-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onaga View Post
hi @JustaPlacebo , its been a while!!

yes was you said was very discussed years ago, Cinema Home with post disabled produces a less input lag that normal modes, but some pros say that the reduced lag was minimum others evens ay that was the same.

at the end, many peolple ditched it because "its doesnt feels like game mode"

also about the brightness, yes, this was also very discussed back in the day, the problem its that consoles dont send any kind of metadata to the tv, its all made by the tv(and OLEDs assume 4000nits for eveything) this make the image very dim on consoles, in order to preserve all the detail.

PC Games send static 1000nits metadata to the tv, making it way more brigther that consoles.

all of this was discussed in more focused gaming forums like NEOgaf or Resetera.

Hey there!

Oof! How embarrassing.. haha. I guess I've just been so busy over the last couple of years I forgot all these details! Sheesh.. Thanks though!

Displays: LG 65" C7 | LG 34UM95 | LG 27UD88 | Asus VG248QE 144Hz | DELL S2240m
Sound: Yamaha HS7's | Onkyo TX-NR 646 5.1.2
Custom PC: i9-9900x, RTX 2080Ti, Mastercase SL600m
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