LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 109 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3241 of 3250 Old 01-06-2020, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
Why don't you roll back to an older firmware release?

I don't have the procedure in front of me but I've read the 7 series can still use an alternate method of firmware flashing which allows you to roll back to older versions.
LG doesn't provide a download of older firmware and it's not even clear when they silently did this change. I'd probably also need to find the one that matches my exact model number. Plus, I'd miss out on some of the actual bugfixes.

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Originally Posted by liberator72 View Post
My C7 is not using the latest official LG firmware So I am unable to test this to confirm your findings I'm afraid.
Have you not updated your firmware in over a year? I'm sure it came out some time after the 2018 series' release.

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Originally Posted by HD-Master View Post
What meters and software were used?
It's in the post right above the table: i1Display Pro. As for software, I used HCFR to read the sensor's light output. It's not like it reads a different value than CalMAN.
And while the colorimeter might not be as accurate as some more expensive ones, multiple measurements during a session or even on different days yielded consistent results.
Plus, when display something like the 5% pattern and then lower the MaxCLL with HDFury on the fly, you can see how the pattern's brightness significantly changes.


Guys, just imagine if SDR gamma/luminance tracking was THIS BAD on a modern TV. Especially at that price point. Everyone would make fun of it and the reviews would be terrible.
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post #3242 of 3250 Old 01-06-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by suarsg View Post


Have you not updated your firmware in over a year? I'm sure it came out some time after the 2018 series' release.
I’m not using a consumer release firmware.

It may be worth checking out the Russian WebOS forums. They used to keep a back catalogue of previous firmware release, I’m not sure if they still do.
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post #3243 of 3250 Old 01-10-2020, 05:59 AM
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I'm a bit surprised this isn't bothering anyone else. I expected kind of a small uproar, or a the very least, some interest in the issue.
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post #3244 of 3250 Old 01-10-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by suarsg View Post
I'm a bit surprised this isn't bothering anyone else. I expected kind of a small uproar, or a the very least, some interest in the issue.



Most people have dynamic tone mapping enabled.
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post #3245 of 3250 Old 01-10-2020, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Most people have dynamic tone mapping enabled.
Yes, I get it. The post was way too long for most people to actually read it. I could've made it more concise.

DTM does not fix the issue, it has the exact same issues.

The table pretty much shows what Dynamic Tone Mapping does, since it does what the TV would do with static MaxCLL data but for a scene-by-scene based MaxCLL - the end result will be the same.
For example, if a scene has some highlights in the 600nits area, with DTM enabled the tracking of the PQ-EOTF would look similar to the 600nits-row in the table. This also explains why DTM will sometimes boost shadows way too much on 2017 models, as Vincent Teoh demonstrated here. DTM bottoms out at the 501-mark (as I've mentioned in my previous post) and you can see how it's almost three times brighter in shadows as it should be.

Last edited by suarsg; 01-10-2020 at 02:55 PM.
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post #3246 of 3250 Old 01-10-2020, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by suarsg View Post
Yes, I get it. The post was way too long for most people to actually read it. I could've made it more concise.



DTM does not fix the issue, it has the exact same issues.



The table pretty much shows what Dynamic Tone Mapping does, since it does what the TV would do with static MaxCLL data but for a scene-by-scene based MaxCLL - the end result will be the same.

For example, if a scene has some highlights in the 600nits area, with DTM enabled the tracking of the PQ-EOTF would look similar to the 600nits-row in the table. This also explains why DTM will sometimes boost shadows way too much on 2017 models, as Vincent Teoh demonstrated here. DTM bottoms out at the 501-mark (as I've mentioned in my previous post) and you can see how it's almost three times brighter in shadows as it should be.


The B7/C7/E7/G7 all use the same M16P chipset, There was some major HDR related upgrades in the 2018 O18 aka Alpha 9 chipset. There was also LG display upgrades in the 2018 panel, That solved some saturation related issues on the 2017 TVs.

If I personally had a 2017 OLED, I would try to watch the Dolby Vision version of content if I could. I’m not trying to defend LG or anything, But a lot of the HDR10 deficiencies in the 2017 TVs that reviewers pointed out, were fixed in the 2018’s because of the new chip capabilities and LGD panel changes.
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post #3247 of 3250 Old 01-11-2020, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
But a lot of the HDR10 deficiencies in the 2017 TVs that reviewers pointed out
Yes, and LG made 2017s worse with an update after the 2018s came out. All the issues of DTM are now also present for movies with MaxCLL data - which are most movies these days.

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If I personally had a 2017 OLED, I would try to watch the Dolby Vision version of content if I could.
I can't really test this due to technical limitations (and lack of deep knowledge about DoVi) but I have an (unfounded) suspicion DoVi content is also not handled properly.
As far as I know DoVi does supply a sort of tonemapping curve for every scene/frame, so in theory it should be isolated from this issue. But there have been lots of instances when I watched Netflix and movies had such boosted shadows (almost like raised black levels) in some scenes that were gone as soon as the camera cut to another angle with different lighting/highlights or just a different scene altogether. At first I thought this was just very poor grading. But after it kept happening in other DoVi content, I plugged in the FireTV from my bedroom (4K Netflix without DoVi/HDR10) and the same scenes had much better blacks. Same thing with overly bright highlights in darker scenes (just like in the table for e.g. the ~1000nits area), sunlight from windows or just some random desk lamp would sort of blind you and make it harder to see the rest of the somewhat dim frame ("Ozark" comes to mind which, again, looked much much better without DoVi/HDR).
This was all after the "raised blacks Dolby Vision"-update too.

Essentially, this TV was sold to us as having near-perfect PQ-EOTF tracking before roll-off begins (the dim 4000nits aside) and this was what basically all reviews agreed upon and what I had when I bought this TV. Now, through LG's shoddy software and their update policy, that near-perfect PQ-EOTF tracking is no longer there and is probably the worst in the entire market. And nobody cares. For all of their great new features the C9 and CX have, this actually makes me not wanting to upgrade, especially to another expensive LG TV. Other manufacturers aren't better with their update policies but at least they don't seem to absolutely ruin their TVs with updates (afaik the dim HDR gaming mode was also through a software update they never fixed/improved again).
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Last edited by suarsg; 01-11-2020 at 08:16 AM.
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post #3248 of 3250 Old 01-12-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by suarsg View Post
I'm a bit surprised this isn't bothering anyone else. I expected kind of a small uproar, or a the very least, some interest in the issue.
Have you tried testing the Standard picture mode? It might be the most accurate now (with clipping).

I always found it odd when at times Standard mode would be dimmer than Technicolor with DTM on, but the boosted light level from your tests would explain it...
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post #3249 of 3250 Old 01-12-2020, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bacon_67 View Post
Have you tried testing the Standard picture mode? It might be the most accurate now (with clipping).



I always found it odd when at times Standard mode would be dimmer than Technicolor with DTM on, but the boosted light level from your tests would explain it...
Excuse me, so you say that on HDR and Dolby Vision, today's best mode for pq it's Standard mode to dodge the elevated blacks issue? I'm having it too with any movies in my PC with nvidia card on rgb auto setting, and black level in cinema home on HIGH (if I set it LOW, the blacks are perfect, but with black crush on dim scenes), or Netflix with DV content . I don't know what else to do with the banding and elevated black levels...
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post #3250 of 3250 Old 01-14-2020, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bacon_67 View Post
Have you tried testing the Standard picture mode? It might be the most accurate now (with clipping).

I always found it odd when at times Standard mode would be dimmer than Technicolor with DTM on, but the boosted light level from your tests would explain it...
I haven't measured Standard per-se but I did compare it during viewing on a fixed HDMI-signal with the technicolor-preset. When I set the Color Temperature in Standard to W45 (since it lacks any proper white balance adjustments), it looks sort of close to D65. Anyway, yes, it seems to be the most accurate one for HDR10 in terms of PQ-EOTF tracking. However, it has Edge Enhancement on, lacks 2pt white balance calibration, and some other stuff. Plus, the roll-off on highlights is still better on technicolor with fixed ~750cd/m2 MaxCLL, it doesn't completely clip the highlights. I tested some of the scenes from Batman vs. Superman, Mad Max, and Pan that Vincent Teoh usually uses and the clipping is definitely there in those cases, but these are somewhat the "worst case" scenarios of which are few out there.

Edit:
Never mind. Did a bit of testing, and the Standard-preset is influenced by the MaxMDL/MaxCLL data. For example, 4000nits produces severe clipping with overboosted highlights and overboosted shadows while a signal with 750nits is very close to the actual PQ-EOTF. Don't know what that's about. I thought back then when the TV came out I read the Standard-preset basically doesn't do any tonemapping and just hard clips. This is clearly not the case.
I hate this TV.

Last edited by suarsg; 01-19-2020 at 11:33 AM.
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