LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 3197 Old 09-07-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Thanks for the input.

Luckily It was a simple fix. I forgot to check "display Gamma with Black compensation". Once selected my curve is perfect with reference.
I don't use HCFR, but what you really want to look at is the raw numbers for x, y, Y.
"Black compensation" is probably using a generic meter profile for your color meter if HCFR/argyllcms has a generic meter profile for your color meter.

There is one thing you should be aware of and that is ASBL kicking in when measuring each 10% or less triplet patch.
btw, you may want to try madTPG as your pattern generator (its free also).

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post #392 of 3197 Old 09-07-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefp View Post
Learned a great deal reviewing this thread, but have a novice question. I see settings based on SDR or HDR...what are these and what's the difference? Assume it's based on the source, so I'd know when to use which setting? Thanks again.

Chief P
Here is LG's guide for calibrating HDR.
http://www.lg.com/us/support/product...OLED%20TVs.pdf

I am playing around with the percentages for HDR, using LG's and Ted's percentages.
As LG's guide states, you need Calman (latest) and Calman's levels editor.
You can also calibrate DV using Calman. However as it stands now you need one of two external patch generators to kick the 2017 OLED's into DV mode. Calman say's it is working on a internal patch generator for DV, that would be included in there software.

ss

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post #393 of 3197 Old 09-07-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
As I posted in a previous comment, I've been collecting available settings and defaults on my OLED55C7P in this spreadseet
I've now also added some descriptions of each setting based on my own understanding, as well as recommendations (with attribution for certain ones) for how they should be set. I'll summarize here, but I'd love to get feedback on these. I'd be happy to add any more detail I can on how they work.

HDR: The default seems to be 55 for HDR. I suggest leaving this alone without a proper HDR calibration.
If you are calibrating the 21 point grayscale then 55 setting will probably be to bright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
Active HDR tries to dynamically determine metadata scene-by-scene, which LG believes will offer a better experience. This is up for debate.
SDR: Leave disabled. This only affects contrast enhancement, and a properly adjusted display shouldn't need it.
HDR: If you want to try Active HDR, set to "Low", which enabled Active HDR without contrast enhancement.
I haven't seen any debate about using Dynamic Contrast setting to low for HDR.
What you probably are seeing is that when you calibrate for HDR, then yes you need to turn off Dynamic Contrast. Or if you are using a SDR formatted video, then yes turn off Dynamic Contrast.
The biggest difference you probably will see by turning on Dynamic Contrast to low is when using a 4000 nit mastered video. It should be much brighter with Dynamic Contrast turn on to low.

Also note that most 1000 nit video has a floor of 0.0005, 4000 nit video has a floor of around 0.005.

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-07-2017 at 05:22 PM.
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post #394 of 3197 Old 09-07-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
If you are calibrating the 21 point grayscale then 55 setting will probably be to bright.
Interesting. 2-point is the default for HDR, but 20 point is the default for DV. I don't see any change in the picture if I just change the number of points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I haven't seen any debate about using Dynamic Contrast setting to low for HDR.
What you probably are seeing is that when you calibrate for HDR, then yes you need to turn off Dynamic Contrast. Or if you are using a SDR formatted video, then yes turn off Dynamic Contrast.
The biggest difference you probably will see by turning on Dynamic Contrast to low is when using a 4000 nit mastered video. It should be much brighter with Dynamic Contrast turn on to low.

Also note that most 1000 nit video has a floor of 0.0005, 4000 nit video has a floor of around 0.005.

ss
It's mostly external sites that recommend having DC off. rtings, cnet, wirecutter, etc. Perhaps they all don't have the understanding of what it does though. I know here that RichB, yourself, and the LG calibration doc recommend it on Low, but ConnecTEDDD has proposed an alternative where DC is left off, and fixed metadata is sent using an HD Fury. I wonder what he recommends for those without an HD Fury?
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post #395 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
Interesting. 2-point is the default for HDR, but 20 point is the default for DV. I don't see any change in the picture if I just change the number of points.
HDR Cinema user, has both 2 point (High/Low) and 20 points. Both work well, but as per LG calibration notes, you need to use there percentages for both 2/20 point, set Calman's levels editor to 8 bit HDR when converting the percentages.
For DV you also need to use Calmans workflow to calibrate and then transfer the Calibration from Calman to a USB thumb drive and use the USB port to install the calibration in the 2017 LG OLED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
It's mostly external sites that recommend having DC off. rtings, cnet, wirecutter, etc. Perhaps they all don't have the understanding of what it does though. I know here that RichB, yourself, and the LG calibration doc recommend it on Low, but ConnecTEDDD has proposed an alternative where DC is left off, and fixed metadata is sent using an HD Fury. I wonder what he recommends for those without an HD Fury?
I think you may have misunderstood what Ted was saying. HD Fury is to set the display in HDR mode and scalier, from there you can use a software internal patch generator to calibrate or better still Ted's calibration disc, maybe.

Matter of fact I am using Ted's percentages and comparing to what LG's percentages for are 2017 LG OLED's.

ss

Edit. Non the less using DC off imho is at the viewers desecration.
I can understand why some may say not to use DC. If you run a 20 point grayscale measurement you will see that DC does cause issues. However imho how much does the processing in the LG OLED for the megadata do things right or wrong.
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Last edited by sillysally; 09-08-2017 at 06:13 PM.
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post #396 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 02:20 AM
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Hi guys !
Can someone please help this is driving me nuts : I've been a consumer of HDR content on my B7 for the past month (Netflix and Amazon mostly and some ps4) and as recommended by some, left the "dynamic constrast" in low in Cinema mode to get Active HDR.
BUT, i just bought the SONY X800 and played my first UHD Blu Rays. And in that configuration, Dynamic Contrast on "low" DOES apply REAL dynamic contrast, with sometimes severe drops in overall brightness and contrast level.
When i turn it off, the picture is really dark, and the only way to cope that is to skip to "Standard mode" (which does the job but, for an av enthusiast, it's a pain...)
My main problem is: why don't I have this problem with Amazon HDR Content or PS4 ? Do I need to get another HDMI cable ? The input does seem a little jaggy with my Amazon 2.0 cable with "HDMI UDH COLOR" set to "on"...
Or is it the SONY player ?
OR : is the Active HDR inoperate with external sources ? (if that's the case, why don't i have any such problem with my PS4 ?)
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post #397 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 03:23 AM
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I never have any unexpected drops in brightness or contrast, when playing a HDR Blu Ray from my Oppo 203.
Using dynamic contrast set to low in Cinema user mode.

Check your settings in your Sony.
If you have a external sound system (AVR) use one HDMI out for video and one HDMI out for audio from your Sony.

If you try a new HDMI cable, get passive, no shorter than 6 feet, no longer than 15 feet. Make sure the cable is certified for 18 GB.

You could try a different HDMI port in your B7.

Or maybe you have a defective HDR Bly Ray disc, try a different HDR Blu Ray.

Hope this helps.

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post #398 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I never have any unexpected drops in brightness or contrast, when playing a HDR Blu Ray from my Oppo 203.
Using dynamic contrast set to low in Cinema user mode.

Check your settings in your Sony.
If you have a external sound system (AVR) use one HDMI out for video and one HDMI out for audio from your Sony.

If you try a new HDMI cable, get passive, no shorter than 6 feet, no longer than 15 feet. Make sure the cable is certified for 18 GB.

You could try a different HDMI port in your B7.

Or maybe you have a defective HDR Bly Ray disc, try a different HDR Blu Ray.

Hope this helps.

ss
I tried another input: same problem. The phenomenon does seem to appear with any of the Ycbcr/RGB HDMI settings...
Plus, the problem doesn't seem to be linked to the blu-ray, since it has similar effects on Netflix HDR contents.
I will try to get another hdmi cable as you adviced thanks!
But I did notice that the Dynamic contrast is much less agressive in "Cinema Home" mode, while still being apparent... So i will stick with that for now...
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post #399 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
HCFR will also help walk you through some of the steps while following the guide. Biggest difference is HCFR asks what type of display you are using. Simply select OLED from the dropdown.
Experts recommend Non-Refresh display mode. It is widely discussed topic, for example here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...ccmx-hcfr.html

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post #400 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 06:10 AM
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LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
HDR Cinema user, has both 2 point (High/Low) and 20 points. Both work well, but as per LG calibration notes, you need to use there percentages for both 2/20 point, set Calman's levels editor to 8 bit HDR.....

ss


Excellent info thank you.

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post #401 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
Experts recommend Non-Refresh display mode. It is widely discussed topic, for example here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...ccmx-hcfr.html
You can try not using a meter matrix and/or display mode when using a color meter like the one 'jbebel' is using. Because it is simply a generic meter matrix, so it may or may not work.
The refresh rate on a LG OLED 4k is 120Hz (refresh rate), so the setting for a light meter would be around 119.95Hz. However a color meter needs no refresh rate.
So what this means is when you make a custom meter matrix for a color meter, you would use a light (spectro) meter and set the refresh rate if applicable for the light meter.
The better pro calibrators will make a custom meter matrix for the display they are working on.
Using a color meter like a Klein K10-A and a spectro/light meter like a Jeti 1211.

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post #402 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
As I posted in a previous comment, I've been collecting available settings and defaults on my OLED55C7P in this spreadseet
I've now also added some descriptions of each setting based on my own understanding, as well as recommendations (with attribution for certain ones) for how they should be set. I'll summarize here, but I'd love to get feedback on these. I'd be happy to add any more detail I can on how they work.

TL;DR

SDR
Choose Expert (Dark Room) as the preset. From the defaults, change:
OLED Light: adjust as desired, or leave alone.
H Sharpness: 0
V Sharpness: 0
In Expert Controls:
Edge Enhancer: Off
In Picture Options:
TruMotion: User
De-Judder: 0
De-Blur: 0

HDR
Choose Cinema preset. From the defaults, change:
Sharpness: 0
Do NOT change OLED Light
In Expert Controls:
Dynamic Contrast: Off, or leave at Low for Active HDR
In Picture Options:
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
TruMotion: User
De-Judder: 0
De-Blur: 0

Dolby Vision
Choose Cinema preset. From the defaults, change:
Sharpness: 0
Do NOT change OLED Light
In Picture Options:
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
TruMotion: User
De-Judder: 0
De-Blur: 0


The Long Descriptions

Picture Mode Settings

Picture Mode
Presets give you a starting point for customization and calibration, and change the available settings. Vivid is garbage. Standard is too cold and over-processed. Game is useful for reducing lag. Cinema is the closest to a calibrated display, although TruMotion by default still gives it the soap opera effect. For SDR, the Expert modes offer the most customization potential, though not much more than cinema (H and V sharpness vs. a single sharpness control.)

OLED Light
Adjust the maximum brightness.

SDR: Set appropriately for your room or preference. Various "standards" seem to exist for dark room luminosity. rtings suggests 16 for 100 cd/m², but states that it is really up to the room and your preference. It has also been noted that automatic backlight limiting is less of a problem if this is at 35 or less. My personal inclination is to, without calibration, leave these alone since changing them may affect any factory calibration choices that were made, but adjusting it for preference is one of the most acceptable things to change.

HDR: Leave at 100.
DV: Leave at 50.
Changing this setting in HDR or DV affects tone mapping, and should thus be left alone.

Contrast
Adjusts detail in highlights.
SDR: rtings adjusted this to 100, but most evidence seems to point to leaving this at the default of 85. There seems to be very little difference between the two.
HDR,DV: Leave this at the default of 100. Changing it affects tone mapping negatively.

Brightness
Brightness adjusts the detail in dark images.
SDR: Evidence suggests this should only be adjusted a point or two, if at all, and likely only for the Bright room preset, in order to see the darkest details. Leaving this at the default of 50 is probably a good idea without calibration.
HDR,DV: Leave this at 50. Changing it negatively affects tone mapping.

Sharpness, H Sharpness, V Sharpness
While LG prefers to add some sharpening to all modes, most reviews suggest turning this down to 0 in all modes to prevent adding additional sharpening.

Color
Fine tunes the saturation of color. Color Gamut is a larger scale adjustment of which color space to use, while this makes a more fine-grained adjustment.

SDR: The default of 50 is probably good. D-Nice suggests that 46 (with Extended Gamut) gets you closer to accurate color. I'm not sure how well this translates to every 2017 LG OLED or if it just worked well for a specific unit. I suggest keeping it at 50 without calibration, or trying 46.

HDR: The default seems to be 55 for HDR. I suggest leaving this alone without a proper HDR calibration.

DV: The default is 50 for DV. I suggest leaving this alone without calibration.

Tint
Adjusts red/green tint.

I see no evidence that tint should ever be changed.

Color Temperature
This color temperature setting is only available in the simpler modes with no white balance calibration. RichB stated that W50 was closest to D65. In general, prefer the modes that offer calibration where this option doesn't exist, however, if you need low lag for gaming, you will at least need this option in the Game preset.

Expert Controls

Dynamic Contrast
Dynamic contrast conflates two things into one setting, at least for HDR. It enables Active HDR, and it adjusts contrast enhancement. Active HDR tries to dynamically determine metadata scene-by-scene, which LG believes will offer a better experience. This is up for debate.
SDR: Leave disabled. This only affects contrast enhancement, and a properly adjusted display shouldn't need it.
HDR: If you want to try Active HDR, set to "Low", which enabled Active HDR without contrast enhancement.
DV: Leave disabled. DV already has dynamic metadata, and doesn't benefit from Active HDR.

Dynamic Color
This is probably some form of scene analysis and color saturation adjustment. It should be disabled for proper calibration, but none of the calibration presets even have this option.

Super Resolution
Some sort of upscaling enhancement. Some report artifacts with it. Probably best to leave it off, or at most, on Low.

Color Gamut
This is a puzzling option. It seems like Wide forces the color space roughly match the DCI-P3 color space. I haven't seen a report, but I would guess that Extended comes pretty close to Rec.709. I do not know how Auto works, but several reviews state that it determines the color gamut from the source and adjusts automatically. For SDR modes, it seems best to leave this at Extended, or Auto, since as I understand it, those will always use Rec.709. For HDR, using Auto might provide benefit if it can detect from metadata the color space used for mastering. The LG defaults for these don't make sense to me, since I'm not sure why you would ever want Wide for SDR content, and I'm also unsure how Auto would ever change with SDR content if color space is not included in metadata with SDR content. To be safe, I believe Auto to be the right choice here.

Edge Enhancer
According to LG, Edge Enhancer is a bypass function, which is enabled when set to On, thus for best results, this should be left On. D-Nice states that this is only true for HDR, though I don't have any explanation for why.
SDR: Probably off? Maybe on?
HDR/DV: On.

Color Filter
This is just used for testing. Leave it off unless you have a need to test with a color filter.

Gamma
A hotly debated topic. This is only adjustable in SDR, and there's no record of what gamma was used for SDR mastering. For bright rooms, 2.2 is a common recommendation, and the default. For dark rooms, 2.4 or BT.1886 is sometimes recommended. BT.1886 is the default, and where I have left mine.

Skin,Grass,Sky Color
Only used in non-calibration presets. Presumably sets red, green, and blue saturation.

Color Temperature
Warm2 is the closest to D65, and should be used.

Method
used to select a calibration method. Has no effect without calibration.

All White Balance Points
Don't mess with these without proper calibration equipment. Never assume that settings from another TV will transfer to yours.

All CMS Points
Don't mess with these without proper calibration equipment. Never assume that settings from another TV will transfer to yours.

Picture Options

Noise Reduction
Reduces noise in poorly mastered content. You probably want this Off for quality content, but perhaps Low if watching noisy content. I'm puzzled that LG made Low the default for HDR presets. Most HDR content should be mastered well with little noise that needs reducing. To see things as intended, leave it off.

MPEG Noise Reduction
Another form of noise reduction applying to artifacts of MPEG compression. Again, for high bitrate content, this should probably be off. For low bitrate, you may see some benefit by turning it on Low. My personal feeling is to leave it off. The MPEG decoder should already to the best it can, and removing noise will remove detail. Again, I'm puzzled that LG chose to make Low the default for HDR presets, but they also apply sharpness by default.

Black Level
Sets the black point, I believe to either 0 or 16. Most video uses 16 as the black point, and this should be left at Low. The exception is when used as a PC monitor, viewing content designed for a PC.

Real Cinema
Makes content mastered at 24p and converted to 60i or 60p present without judder. This should be left on, unless you are in game mode where the option is unavailable.

Motion Eye Care
Not sure, but probably something you don't want. It seems to adjust brightness according to how much motion is in the video. It's off by default in all presets. Leave it that way.

TruMotion
Most people want this off for the most accurate picture. It enables the soap opera effect, which is not how the content was intended to be viewed, but can reduce some motion blur, particularly for panning. Raising it too high will cause rendering artifacts, or perhaps dropped frames. According to rtings, to watch actual 24p content, you should set this to User, and turn both sliders to 0.
Thanks for this. Seems like a perfect start for an FAQ STICKY...Mods, what do you think?
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post #403 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimiitoo View Post
I tried another input: same problem. The phenomenon does seem to appear with any of the Ycbcr/RGB HDMI settings.
Plus, the problem doesn't seem to be linked to the blu-ray, since it has similar effects on Netflix HDR contents.
I thought you said "why don't I have this problem with Amazon HDR Content or PS4"
Did you try YCbCr 4:2:2 and deep color off in your Sony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshimiitoo View Post
I will try to get another hdmi cable as you adviced thanks!
But I did notice that the Dynamic contrast is much less agressive in "Cinema Home" mode, while still being apparent... So i will stick with that for now...
I haven't measured Cinema Home, but Dynamic contrast low setting should have the same effect as Cinema user for HDR 4K format.

If Dynamic contrast set to low in your B7, and there is no issues when using Cinema Home , then it probably isn't the HDMI cable.

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post #404 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I thought you said "why don't I have this problem with Amazon HDR Content or PS4"
Did you try YCbCr 4:2:2 and deep color off in your Sony.



I haven't measured Cinema Home, but Dynamic contrast low setting should have the same effect as Cinema user for HDR 4K format.

If Dynamic contrast set to low in your B7, and there is no issues when using Cinema Home , then it probably isn't the HDMI cable.

ss
I'm sorry, I meant the Netflix HDR from the app on the Sony player... It gives me the same problem (no issues with the Netflix or Amazon apps on the TV)
I just got a new Monster 18 gbps cable, tried to disable the deep color, and switched to 4:2:2, and nothing happened. It still has very present dynamic contrast effect (on cinema mode with dynamic contrast to low)...
So... Is the player the problem ? Or the B7 ? As I understand, most of you have the C7. Have I just found a major difference between the C7 and the B7, which is "better handling of Active HDR on external HDR sources on the C7 ?"
Man that would be a shame... Since those TVs cost the same and are built the same way...
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Oh my GOD
I just switched to another UHD blu Ray.
FYI, I was doing all my tests on "Inferno" (terrible TERRIBLE movie) which as you may know, came packed in with the player.
With "Ghost in the shell", nothing to see here ! The contrast is stable and no major drops as noticed in the Inferno UHD disc... What the hell ? I will try with "Logan" and "La La Land", but I think the problem mainly came from the "Inferno" blu ray...
(It's still perceivable, but much MUCH less; and much more STABLE)
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post #406 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Any help would be appreciated, finished my first 20 Point Gray scale calibration and it went great. All points < 0.03 Delta.

However, When I look at the luminance graph, my curve doesn't line up the HCFR's reference.

- Did I do something wrong? or is the reference curve incorrect?

Settings: IFS Dark Room, Black Level:Low, All Processing off, Colour Temp: Warm 2

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi,

To be able to include luminance tracking errors to the HCFR calculated dE you see, you have to change the Grayscale dE settings to ''Absolute Y w/ Gamma'' @ Preferences -> Advanced tab.

To do this select first Color Difference Formula to CIE2000....click 'Apply'....to be able to select then the ''Absolute Y w/ Gamma''

Doing this your errros will be increased since it will calculate luminance and RGB errors also. Look the Target Y numbers to see what adjustment you have to make to improve your gamma tracking.

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post #407 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Calibreation Hardware used: ColourMonkey Display (Works great with HCFR)
Software: HCFR (Free Software)
Pattern Generator: HD709 Disc, used 10% windows to prevent ABL
Hi, AVSHD disk you are using has 14.16% window patterns, not 10%.



There is a grayscale levels mismatch between grayscale patterns available to AVSHD with the patterns HCFR engine calculated the dE, but HCFR has an option to its preferences to fix that level mismatch.

The ''normal rounding' (untick the round down) is for calibration disks designed for HCFR or ChromaPure so HCFR will work normally like how it's been programmed (RGB triplets of HCFR are based to same RGB triplets of ChromaPure's engine).

But you should 'use round down' for AVSHD and DVE disks because these disks are not matching exactly the levels that HCFR (and ChromaPure) engine's is expecting for the grayscale measurements/dE calculations.

ChromaPure/CalMAN...don't have that 'round down' option to their settings.

So HCFR users with AVSHD/DVE disks will not have 100% exact match for the half of the grayscale measurements if they don't tick the 'use round down'.

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post #408 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Also note that most 1000 nit video has a floor of 0.0005, 4000 nit video has a floor of around 0.005.

ss
Hi SS,

The movies mastered using 1000nit monitor have 0.005 or 0.000 nits, according to the 220 movie metadata list which I have promised to post soon.

Below there is a preview to see how that list will look, there a lot of titles being checked from different markets (US/UK/DE/IT); I say region to the list; UHD don't have region codes like BD/DVD, they play everywhere. There some differences between metadata of MaxCLL and MaxFALL of the same title but from other region market.


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post #409 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Calibreation Hardware used: ColourMonkey Display (Works great with HCFR)
Software: HCFR (Free Software)
Pattern Generator: HD709 Disc, used 10% windows to prevent ABL
Hi, AVSHD disk you are using has 14.16% window patterns, not 10%.



There is a grayscale levels mismatch between grayscale patterns available to AVSHD with the patterns HCFR engine calculated the dE, but HCFR has an option to its preferences to fix that level mismatch.

The ''normal rounding' (untick the round down) is for calibration disks designed for HCFR or ChromaPure so HCFR will work normally like how it's been programmed (RGB triplets of HCFR are based to same RGB triplets of ChromaPure's engine).

But you should 'use round down' for AVSHD and DVE disks because these disks are not matching exactly the levels that HCFR (and ChromaPure) engine's is expecting for the grayscale measurements/dE calculations.

ChromaPure/CalMAN...don't have that 'round down' option to their settings.

So HCFR users with AVSHD/DVE disks will not have 100% exact match for the half of the grayscale measurements if they don't tick the 'use round down'.
Ted... THANK YOU! I really appreciate the guidance and support through my calibration journey

I will make use the HCFR built in generator on my next pass. The luminance tip is amazing.

Just for reference, should I be selecting "Gamma with Black compensation". Or does that not apply to OLED?

I am going to buy a copy of your disk as a thank you
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post #410 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Ted... THANK YOU! I really appreciate the guidance and support through my calibration journey

I will make use the HCFR built in generator on my next pass. The luminance tip is amazing.

Just for reference, should I be selecting "Gamma with Black compensation". Or does that not apply to OLED?

I am going to buy a copy of your disk as a thank you
Hi, the OLED's have 0 nits black, so even if you enabled or disabled the ''Gamma with Black Compensation', the luminance targets for each grayscale step will be the same (When the meter will report 0 nits)

But if there environmental light leakage when you measure your black level, the meter can probably can detect that and report that you have higher black level, so when you have the Black Compensation active it will re-adjust your gamma targets to low end of your grayscale.

Also sometimes users when they are adjusting their brightness control looking the flashing bars of a brightness patterns, sometimes incorrect adjustment while trying to display 17 bar, it can lift the black level so this will provide poorer black level and lower contrast ratio.

To find your best Brightness setting which will not lift your black level (reduce your contrast ratio); display a Brightness Pattern and pause when the flashing bars are static.



After that place your meter at the middle left area where you see total black (bars 2-10 as example, red circle stroke) and take a black reading with your meter with your Brightness setting @ 50,51,52,53 etc.

Doing this you will find the setting which is not increasing your black level while at your right side you will see which near black bars you see at the same time.

Note

I have added ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' text to the left side of the pattern (blue stroke area) that is flashing for every 2 seconds, like the flashing bars.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder ''This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

Also you can use the 6-Point Near Black Chapter where you can measure 0% / 0.5% / 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5% Gray.

Instructions for HCFR or CalMAN users about this 6-Point Near Black you can see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post49621609
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post #411 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi SS,

The movies mastered using 1000nit monitor have 0.005 or 0.000 nits, according to the 220 movie metadata list which I have promised to post soon.

Below there is a preview to see how that list will look, there a lot of titles being checked from different markets (US/UK/DE/IT); I say region to the list; UHD don't have region codes like BD/DVD, they play everywhere. There some differences between metadata of MaxCLL and MaxFALL of the same title but from other region market.

Hello Ted.
That's very nice of you.

This has been my rule of thumb.
All 4000 nit titles use a black floor of .005. 1000 nit titles from Universal also use a .005 black floor as they were done with the Pulsar but mapped to 1000 nits instead.

Unlike projectors are LG OLED's map to content, so the floor should not be a issue.

The bigger issue is using Dynamic contrast setting low in the 2017 LG OLED.
As I said for 1000 nit format Dynamic contrast setting to low will not make much of a visual difference, but 4000 nit formatted video using Dynamic contrast setting to low should make a fairly big difference visually.

btw, Ralph Potts is now posting in his reviews what nits the film is formatted to.

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post #412 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoshimiitoo View Post
Oh my GOD
I just switched to another UHD blu Ray.
FYI, I was doing all my tests on "Inferno" (terrible TERRIBLE movie) which as you may know, came packed in with the player.
With "Ghost in the shell", nothing to see here ! The contrast is stable and no major drops as noticed in the Inferno UHD disc... What the hell ? I will try with "Logan" and "La La Land", but I think the problem mainly came from the "Inferno" blu ray...
(It's still perceivable, but much MUCH less; and much more STABLE)
If you want to see the difference, set your B7 to Dynamic contrast off and then to on when viewing Ghost in the shell (Edit; 1000 nit format).

Glad you solved your issue.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-08-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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post #413 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 04:48 PM
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1000 cd/m2 0.005 cd/m2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
If you want to see the difference, set your B7 to Dynamic contrast off and then to on when viewing Ghost in the shell (4000 nit format).

Glad you solved your issue.

ss
Ghost In The Shell has mastering display metadata max/min : 1000/0.005 cd/m2
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post #414 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 05:06 PM
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Just got my hands on a B7 65 & am just breaking it in before calibration so I have just used the settings in this thread to get the picture in the ball park of not burning my retinas out but I find in mode HDR blacks are terrible.

They are more gray than black & are LCD like.

I don't know if it's settings are just the effect HDR has on blacks but watching Bosch on Amazon Video and switching between the ultra HD/HDR & the 1080p SDR versions its night & day in terms of blacks.

Anyone else find the same?

I prefer the SDR version better yet the 4K version with HDR turned off but I don't know if that's possible with Amazon Video?

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 09-08-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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post #415 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, AVSHD disk you are using has 14.16% window patterns, not 10%.



There is a grayscale levels mismatch between grayscale patterns available to AVSHD with the patterns HCFR engine calculated the dE, but HCFR has an option to its preferences to fix that level mismatch.

The ''normal rounding' (untick the round down) is for calibration disks designed for HCFR or ChromaPure so HCFR will work normally like how it's been programmed (RGB triplets of HCFR are based to same RGB triplets of ChromaPure's engine).

But you should 'use round down' for AVSHD and DVE disks because these disks are not matching exactly the levels that HCFR (and ChromaPure) engine's is expecting for the grayscale measurements/dE calculations.

ChromaPure/CalMAN...don't have that 'round down' option to their settings.

So HCFR users with AVSHD/DVE disks will not have 100% exact match for the half of the grayscale measurements if they don't tick the 'use round down'.

Hey Ted, one more quick question. Is the GCD Disk HCFR complaint? Or any other free pattern generator you would recommend?

Unfortunately, I need to borrow a Blu-Ray burner before I can use your disk.

Thanks,
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post #416 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Ghost In The Shell has mastering display metadata max/min : 1000/0.005 cd/m2
Hello Ted.

Thanks for the correction, it is a 1000 nit format.
That helps me a lot, because it probably was my Lumagen Pro 4440 that was originally causing the dark issue with this film. Happy to say that it seems Lumagen has fixed that issue.

Non the less I will now have to compare the pass through of the Lumagen with and without the Lumagen in the video path. I will be using Ghost In The Shell (1000 nit) and Blade Runner (4000 nit, also is a dark movie) to compare.

I will also be using your HDR percentages that I calibrated my C7 with.

ss

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post #417 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Hey Ted, one more quick question. Is the GCD Disk HCFR complaint? Or any other free pattern generator you would recommend?

Unfortunately, I need to borrow a Blu-Ray burner before I can use your disk.

Thanks,
Ted probably can make a Bly Ray disc and send it to you, he did that for me.
See Teds web site for that info and his E-Mail address. http://displaycalibrations.com/

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-08-2017 at 05:56 PM.
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post #418 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 08:24 PM
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are there any setting other then the Black Level set to 0.0001 in Calman 5 when calibrating? seems like there are some 'secrets' settings
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post #419 of 3197 Old 09-08-2017, 11:56 PM
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Has anyone installed the new FW for technicolour pictures presets off C7 owners thread ?
How does it measure up to isf for accuracy?
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post #420 of 3197 Old 09-09-2017, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Hey Ted, one more quick question. Is the GCD Disk HCFR complaint? Or any other free pattern generator you would recommend?

Unfortunately, I need to borrow a Blu-Ray burner before I can use your disk.

Thanks,
Hi, the GCD is more correct from AVSHD for HCFR software.

But It's not having such many measurements runs or so much color reproduction patterns.

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