LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 3124 Old 09-16-2017, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Ok so I am stuck, after doing the two point (30% & 100%) greyscale adjustment my greyscale looks like this:

https://imgur.com/mF56in3

So I moved onto the 20 point adjustment I just started at 100% and then moving through all the points adjusting two clicks at a time per percentage point & in between taking a sweep of all 20 points I played moving content & took measurements with no menus on screen. My greyscale now looks like this:

https://imgur.com/J3YckdW

No matter what I do I am unable to reduce the error on the worst percentage points. I have even done a constant measurement & adjusted 95% maxing out the adjustments of green & nothing happens, it still says there is a lack of green.

Clearly I am doing something wrong, any ideas?

Sorry I am unable to get the images to show in the post seems to be something wrong with the forum as I tried three different image hosts.
Which meter and generator are you using? Did you profile the meter?
You are right, your results don't look correct.
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post #512 of 3124 Old 09-16-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
It's important to profile your meter to the specific panel or your peak luminance readings won't be accurate.
I have not found this to be the case on any of the thousands of TVs I've calibrated over the years.
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post #513 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Which meter and generator are you using? Did you profile the meter?
You are right, your results don't look correct.
I am using an i1 display 3 & a Amazon TV Fire running mobile forge from Spectracal.

Meter profile created with an i1 Pro.
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post #514 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 04:43 AM
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^^^
That's good so i'm sorry but unless you are leaving the patches up too long, I have no idea what could be the problem.
You might try this:
1) Put up a 100% patch just for a second, one reading, then bring up a 5% patch and leave that up while you make adjustments to the 100%
2) Repeat using 90% patch, and so on only taking one reading and then bringing up a very low ire patch like 5% while you make adjustments.

The only thing I can think of is that you are leaving the patches up too long. I find that that you may have a little time before the ABL kicks in but with high ire's the OLED screen will heat up and skew your readings.

Try this and let us know what happens.
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post #515 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 05:14 AM
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Adam, Calmans full field pattern insertion function may help:
http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...p?f=126&t=6009
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post #516 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 09:30 AM
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Could thus be the problem, in the settings for the pattern generator in CalMAN I have the following settings:

Window size: window 10%

Pattern size: 10

Pattern APL: 10

Looking at that thread on the spectracal forum Mark H recommend these setting for frame insertion:

APL 25 patterns
Frame insertion: 10s, 1s, 75%

Does that mean I need to adjust the Pattern APL setting to 25, Pattern Size to 0 & use the above settings for frame insertion?

What's the best way to tell its working?

Also is there an easy way for to clear the 20 point settings back to 0 in the TV other than manually going through each IRE point & setting red, green & blue back to 0?
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post #517 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 09:32 AM
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Quick question about Color value:

It seems that everyone is good at 50. When I use the AVS709 disc and turn on the Blue Filter setting to view the color bars, I have to push the color up to 60 in my LG C7. I'm in ISF Dark mode with Color Gamut in Auto.

What am I missing?
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post #518 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 11:12 AM
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Ok so I tried what I said in my last post (frame insersion) & still get the same outcome. 70% has a huge error & I am unable to correct it even when maxing out the controls.

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 09-17-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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post #519 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 11:55 AM
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Sorry, I meant for chadb's comments to be read:
"I found it worked well at it's default settings of insertion every 60 seconds, 20% amplitude, and 1 second duration. Just check the box in the CalMAN options to turn it on.
It might not be effective if you use APL windows, because they already have a full field in the background. Since APL windows measure the same as normal windows on OLEDs (at least for normal rec 709 calibration), it's no problem; just use normal windows of any size up to 25%."
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post #520 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Sorry, I meant for chadb's comments to be read:
"I found it worked well at it's default settings of insertion every 60 seconds, 20% amplitude, and 1 second duration. Just check the box in the CalMAN options to turn it on.
It might not be effective if you use APL windows, because they already have a full field in the background. Since APL windows measure the same as normal windows on OLEDs (at least for normal rec 709 calibration), it's no problem; just use normal windows of any size up to 25%."
When using frame insertion can you do a continuous measurement and adjust each percentage point live or should you do a full sweep & adjust two clicks and then re sweep playing moving content while adjusting.
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post #521 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon65 View Post
Quick question about Color value:

It seems that everyone is good at 50. When I use the AVS709 disc and turn on the Blue Filter setting to view the color bars, I have to push the color up to 60 in my LG C7. I'm in ISF Dark mode with Color Gamut in Auto.

What am I missing?
Hi, using any filter is a waste of time, CMS Calibration is not possible by only looking build in filters or by any type of $1 filter that is coming with disks or by photographic use quality and more expensive ones (Rosco E-Colour Tokyo Blue #071 or Lee Sheet Colour Filter #071 Tokyo or Kodak Deep Blue Tricolor #47B) or R/G/B filters from display menu.

Blue Filter Glasses are useless for displays other than CRT.

Blue filters used before 10-15 years mainly for CRT Displays where only Color/Tint controls were available for CMS; the calibration software/meter access were so limited and so expensive.....now in 2017 you can get an amazing for the performance colorimeter like X-Rite's i1Display PRO and by using an open source software for free (like HCFR or LightSpace DPS), there is no reason to use any blue filter anymore.

Now most of the displays are coming with 6-Axis CMS controls.

Blue filters (on CRT) can work where for example the Red Primary is fully saturated and have no blue or green...blue primary has no green or red etc....But a fully saturated Primary needs to have the other 2 primaries added to be able to de-saturated it to it's target....so viewing thru the blue filter you will have light coming from all three primaries and this will make it's blue filter purpose of matching the luminance method no longer work.

When you have meter/software and have performed a color gamut calibration will full CMS internal controls or via external way using a 3D LUT Box like eeColor, look throu the blue filter....you will see that it will look so bad; so a very wide native gamut coverage display it will look very off when you target for REC.709 and look throu bars because the more de-saturation will be needed to the colors to match REC.709. Blue filters designed to work for display that their primaries are tracking REC.709, now all modern displays have wider gamut coverage from REC.709, this is another one reason that Blue Filter is not worth it to use nowadays.

For CMS calibration you need software/meter, can't do it by looking any reference pattern or any special mode or any filter.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #522 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Ok so I tried what I said in my last post (frame insersion) & still get the same outcome. 70% has a huge error & I am unable to correct it even when maxing out the controls.
There is only one way to be sure ASBL isn't kicking in and that is turning it off in the service menu.
I have also seen Calman hang on one reading for a short time.

Write down the measured raw numbers of 70% reading, put up a full screen picture to make sure ASBL is not still on, then go back to your 20 point sweep and click on the little 70% window on the read out for the 20 point sweep to bring up the 70% patch on your display, then take a reading of that patch. Now compare the raw numbers of the new reading to the ones you wrote down, if there is a fair size difference in your raw numbers then its a bad read. Of course when you do that don't change any settings in your OLED.

Make sure you have turned off ‘Dynamic Contrast’ in your OLED's setting, before taking any readings.
Also use a 5% window with no APL background, darken your room as much as possible and keep it that way. Warm up your OLED for 2 hours or more, keep the room cool.

ss
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Last edited by sillysally; 09-17-2017 at 04:05 PM.
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post #523 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, using any filter is a waste of time, CMS Calibration is not possible by only looking build in filters or by any type of $1 filter that is coming with disks or by photographic use quality and more expensive ones (Rosco E-Colour Tokyo Blue #071 or Lee Sheet Colour Filter #071 Tokyo or Kodak Deep Blue Tricolor #47B) or R/G/B filters from display menu.

Blue Filter Glasses are useless for displays other than CRT.

Blue filters used before 10-15 years mainly for CRT Displays where only Color/Tint controls were available for CMS; the calibration software/meter access were so limited and so expensive.....now in 2017 you can get an amazing for the performance colorimeter like X-Rite's i1Display PRO and by using an open source software for free (like HCFR or LightSpace DPS), there is no reason to use any blue filter anymore.

Now most of the displays are coming with 6-Axis CMS controls.

Blue filters (on CRT) can work where for example the Red Primary is fully saturated and have no blue or green...blue primary has no green or red etc....But a fully saturated Primary needs to have the other 2 primaries added to be able to de-saturated it to it's target....so viewing thru the blue filter you will have light coming from all three primaries and this will make it's blue filter purpose of matching the luminance method no longer work.

When you have meter/software and have performed a color gamut calibration will full CMS internal controls or via external way using a 3D LUT Box like eeColor, look throu the blue filter....you will see that it will look so bad; so a very wide native gamut coverage display it will look very off when you target for REC.709 and look throu bars because the more de-saturation will be needed to the colors to match REC.709. Blue filters designed to work for display that their primaries are tracking REC.709, now all modern displays have wider gamut coverage from REC.709, this is another one reason that Blue Filter is not worth it to use nowadays.

For CMS calibration you need software/meter, can't do it by looking any reference pattern or any special mode or any filter.
Thanks for your response.

Just a clarification: I wasn't using the blue filter glasses, but was using the blue filter setting on the display while viewing the color bars.

Is this also a waste of time? I was thinking it would be a good place to start prior to using the sensor/software.

I do have calman and the C6 sensor and have used that with Color at 50.

I was trying to figure out why there was the discrepancy.

Thanks again
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post #524 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon65 View Post
Thanks for your response.

Just a clarification: I wasn't using the blue filter glasses, but was using the blue filter setting on the display while viewing the color bars.

Is this also a waste of time? I was thinking it would be a good place to start prior to using the sensor/software.

I do have calman and the C6 sensor and have used that with Color at 50.

I was trying to figure out why there was the discrepancy.

Thanks again
Yes, it's waste of time any of those methods, use your meter/software for real calibration

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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post #525 of 3124 Old 09-17-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes, it's waste of time any of those methods, use your meter/software for real calibration
Thanks. I just finished a quick touch-up with my meter/software using Color==50. Pretty happy with the results.
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post #526 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Ok so I tried what I said in my last post (frame insersion) & still get the same outcome. 70% has a huge error & I am unable to correct it even when maxing out the controls.
There is only one way to be sure ASBL isn't kicking in and that is turning it off in the service menu.
I have also seen Calman hang on one reading for a short time.

Write down the measured raw numbers of 70% reading, put up a full screen picture to make sure ASBL is not still on, then go back to your 20 point sweep and click on the little 70% window on the read out for the 20 point sweep to bring up the 70% patch on your display, then take a reading of that patch. Now compare the raw numbers of the new reading to the ones you wrote down, if there is a fair size difference in your raw numbers then its a bad read. Of course when you do that don't change any settings in your OLED.

Make sure you have turned off ?Dynamic Contrast? in your OLED's setting, before taking any readings.
Also use a 5% window with no APL background, darken your room as much as possible and keep it that way. Warm up your OLED for 2 hours or more, keep the room cool.

ss
I have a remote that should let me in the service menu arriving today but I only purchased it to see how many hours I have on the panel.

If you turn off ASBL how do you know you are not damaging the panel when taking measurements?

I guess playing real life content is a no no?
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post #527 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
I have a remote that should let me in the service menu arriving today but I only purchased it to see how many hours I have on the panel.

If you turn off ASBL how do you know you are not damaging the panel when taking measurements?

I guess playing real life content is a no no?
Any time you enter the service menu you run a risk of damaging the display.
I have turned off and back on ASBL on both the EF9500 and the C7 many times and never had a issue. However you may.

The safest way to use the service menu is to take screen shots of each page or sub before you change anything.
Also do not hit 'In Stop' button, on the remote.

Use at your own risk.

ss
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post #528 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 05:16 AM
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Disabling ASBL looks intriguing but I haven't ever done it and I've done quite a few 20 point runs without the 70% issue you describe. For a test have you tried a different gamma target?

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post #529 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 06:50 AM
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LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

I've found levels to comply easier using the following settings:

ISF Dark
Gamma 2.2-2.3 sliding / TV set to 2.2
Brightness 51
Contrast 85
OLED 40
Colour 46 extended gamut (a recent tweak provided by D-Nice which is really good - instantly brings colour to a more natural tone but keeps it rich)

I use ChadBs full field insertion recommendations.
Line up 2 point as good as you can first.

Perhaps try a new workflow, ChadBs advanced one is great.

Edit:
I am by no means in total control. I would class myself amateur at best. The pros probably have some funky tricks that start with base settings above or below what you would expect before full cal and can line things up with minimal adjustments. Tint is also possibly tweaked.

Another method you can try with 20 point is start at 100% and work your way down each 10 point omitting the 5's.

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Last edited by PeteNeat; 09-18-2017 at 10:26 AM.
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post #530 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 11:02 AM
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Any risk to turning off ASBL?

Also, does the same setting in the Service menu turn it off for both SDR/HDR?

Thanks all,
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post #531 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 11:41 AM
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Ok so I have access to the service menus but I am still unable to see the hours of use for my panel.

I have looked in the EZ_ADJUST & IN-START menus & cant see it anywhere.
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^
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post #533 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 12:39 PM
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any suggestions for directv settings? mainly struggling with the color gamut. Also which settings should I use for the netflix app? Using that a lot.

Last edited by lapino; 09-18-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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post #534 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
I've found levels to comply easier using the following settings:

ISF Dark
Gamma 2.2-2.3 sliding / TV set to 2.2
Brightness 51
Contrast 85
OLED 40
Colour 46 extended gamut (a recent tweak provided by D-Nice which is really good - instantly brings colour to a more natural tone but keeps it rich)

I use ChadBs full field insertion recommendations.
Line up 2 point as good as you can first.

Perhaps try a new workflow, ChadBs advanced one is great.

Edit:
I am by no means in total control. I would class myself amateur at best. The pros probably have some funky tricks that start with base settings above or below what you would expect before full cal and can line things up with minimal adjustments. Tint is also possibly tweaked.

Another method you can try with 20 point is start at 100% and work your way down each 10 point omitting the 5's.
Many thanks for all the great info, just hit 190 hours so from what I read around 200 is a good time to start calibration.

I will try the missing out the 5's & starting at 100% seems more logical to me anyway, I feel I am all over the place when trying to do the 20 point.

The interaction between the high & low does not seem to bad but something is clearly wrong as only certain percentage points have crazy amounts of error while the rest of the GS is pretty good.

When we talk about only making two clicks per percentage point is that per colour? So for example I could adjust red & blue by two clicks for 90%? Or should I just be only adjust only colour per percentage point per sweep?

@sillysally what heading/label is ASBL under in the service menu? I presume LG have not labelled it ASBL? In the EZ_adjust menu?

Won't have time to have another go at the grayscale until the weekend.

I will reset the picture mode, readjust all the settings and then set up the two point.

I did not realise that OLEDs took so long to stabilise, I have always waited an hour with LCD but I will leave it longer from now on.
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post #535 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Disabling ASBL looks intriguing but I haven't ever done it and I've done quite a few 20 point runs without the 70% issue you describe.
I don't have a issue with 70%.

Update; I just saw your screen shot of the service menu, it looks like you have no OLED header like on are USA service menu., and that is ware I turn off ASBL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
For a test have you tried a different gamma target?
This is a interesting question.
As far as Gamma targets, you can't change the gamma '2.2' (grayed out) in LG's HDR mode 'Cinema users'. A properly formatted HDR video should use ST.2084 gamma, so I would think it stands to reason that when calibrating the grayscale you would use ST.2084.

So because the gamma of 2.2 (power law) is shown but grayed out, is that simply because it is the default gamma for SDR mode, or is LG using something other than ST.2084 to process the HDR megadata.

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-18-2017 at 03:55 PM.
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post #536 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 03:56 PM
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Okay back up the boat for a second....
We are trying to get Adams 20 point SDR rec709 sorted here are we not?
Have I misunderstood?

I haven't even tried to tweak HDR yet, as it's so new I'd rather all the boffins hack away at it then give me all the juicy info to make my life easier

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post #537 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Update; I just saw your screen shot of the service menu, it looks like you have no OLED header like on are USA service menu., and that is ware I turn off ASBL.
That's a vid I plucked out of obscurity to show where to find panel on time. It's not an OLED panel.

LGOLED55C7P - Calman Enthusiast - I1Display / I1Pro

Last edited by PeteNeat; 09-18-2017 at 04:06 PM.
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post #538 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Any risk to turning off ASBL?

Also, does the same setting in the Service menu turn it off for both SDR/HDR?

Thanks all,
See this post. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54816574

Turning off ASBL does only that, at least on a USA service menu.

You can turn on HDR mode high peak nits and use a SDR mode, but it seems you can't turn off HDR mode when sending a HDR formatted video's megadata.
If you want to turn on HDR mode high peak nits and not have LG use HDR mode, you would first have to strip the megadata and then send the video signal to the OLED.

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post #539 of 3124 Old 09-18-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell;5482008

@[B
sillysally[/B] what heading/label is ASBL under in the service menu? I presume LG have not labelled it ASBL? In the EZ_adjust menu?

Won't have time to have another go at the grayscale until the weekend.

I will reset the picture mode, readjust all the settings and then set up the two point.

I did not realise that OLEDs took so long to stabilise, I have always waited an hour with LCD but I will leave it longer from now on.
If you are asking a question from a member, you should use multi quotes. I almost missed your question.

In Start>OLED>TPC> change from Enable to Off>In Start (optional)> Exit.
Once done calibrating, I suggest to turn TPC back on (Enable).

Even after a few hours of moving video the OLED is still unstable, just not as much.
If you take multiple readings of 100% white you will see the 'Y' value increase.

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post #540 of 3124 Old 09-19-2017, 04:01 AM
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Working on basic calibration of my new OLED55B7V and I don't feel its an easy task
I've read this whole thread and other sites for suggestions (Rtings, CNET) and it's quite similiar and I also went through AVS HD 709 basics.
My calibration settings right now is almost identical to Steves Withers recommendation.
My problem is that I find it hard to set the right settings for black levels, both in dark and bright room scenarios.
I mean with basic configuration settings without pro calibration.
It's either too dark and crushing the blacks, or feels to bright and get that "washed out" feeling.

With the general recommendation mentioned above from Steve in mind, is gamma 1.9 way off?
Because when I try out some media from netflix with dark scenes, for example daredevil and stranger things, with gamma 2.2 a lot of black details is lost.
With gamma 1.9 I gain a lot more black detail but I do lose deep blacks. Have I missed something and any tips what settings I could work on?
Well I have not tried so much other sources and don't own a UHD-player atm, I have tried some blurays on my PS4, but It's the same there.

Regarding colour settings, I do find "Wide/Colour 46" for SDR much better then "Auto/50", it feels much more natural and colorful - great tips from this thread!
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