LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pazman2000 View Post
Brightness 52 is as high as I can go within a glow on Black .
Which does should 17 but olny from 1m away .
As my gamma is high at 5% in none contact I?ll correct that first and should then see a brighter 17 .
I tested the brightness patterns at 24p and 60p and there is no difference when using the Technicolour FW.
Thanks again Tedd your help is greatly appreciated
Better to set a setting where the blacks will not ''glow''. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the end results to have better picture. There displays where it's impossible to display the 17 (0.5% Gray) without introducing problems, so it's up to user skill to take correct decision.

When you have find the setting that has no visual issues, then measure 6-Point Near Black to see how display is reproducing the near black levels. If you see that are higher the luminance levels from the target, then reduce contrast and re-measure.

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post #632 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazman2000 View Post
Brightness 52 is as high as I can go within a glow on Black .
Which does should 17 but olny from 1m away .
As my gamma is high at 5% in none contact I?ll correct that first and should then see a brighter 17 .
I tested the brightness patterns at 24p and 60p and there is no difference when using the Technicolour FW.
Thanks again Tedd your help is greatly appreciated
Better to set a setting where the blacks will not ''glow''. Sometimes you have to sacrifice for the end results to have better picture. There displays where it's impossible to display the 17 (0.5% Gray) without introducing problems, so it's up to user skill to take correct decision.

When you have find the setting that has no visual issues, then measure 6-Point Near Black to see how display is reproducing the near black levels. If you see that are higher the luminance levels from the target, then reduce contrast and re-measure.
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post #633 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pazman2000 View Post
From my calibration of Technicolour it is no more accurate then isf.
It?s just a sales gimmick


That’s nasty I thought that they are nearly the same as good like the new Pana OLEDS OOTB

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post #634 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
You can set brightness from your sitting position but you have to check after finding the setting from there...if that setting is not lifting your black level.

A lot of time when users are adjusting their brightness control looking the flashing bars of a brightness patterns, sometimes incorrect adjustment while trying to display 17 bar, it can lift the black level so this will provide poorer black level and lower contrast ratio.

To find your best Brightness setting which will not lift your black level (reduce your contrast ratio); display a Brightness Pattern and pause when the flashing bars are static.



After that place your meter at the middle left area where you see total black (bars 2-10 as example, red circle stroke) and take a black reading with your meter with your Brightness setting @ 50,51,52,53 etc.

Doing this you will find the setting which is not increasing your black level while at your right side you will see which near black bars you see at the same time.

Note

I have added ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' text to the left side of the pattern (blue stroke area) that is flashing for every 2 seconds, like the flashing bars.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters fill ''This is Reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (letters fill/color is 16) this means that some enhancement in processing is detecting and boosting that level, so you have to find out which setting is enabling the artifact and disable it.

When you have set correctly your Black Level, and you see no flashing bar of 16 and below but you still able to see the letters boarder ''This is reference Black & should not be visible'' flashing (while the letters fill is invisible), this means that your current sharpness setting is not correct and you have to reduce the sharpness slider more.

It has to do with the combination of sharpness setting with the image processing engine of each display, that enable/boosting these fake details that are not supposed to be visible.

If you have my calibration disk then you can use the 6-Point Near Black Chapter where you can measure 0% / 0.5% / 1% / 2% / 3% / 4% / 5% Gray.

Instructions for HCFR or CalMAN users about this 6-Point Near Black you can see there: LG OLEDs - how to enhance near black detail
Ted just requested you calibration disk on your website. I assume this pattern in on that disk?

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 01-14-2018 at 04:02 AM.
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post #635 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Ted just requested you calibration dusk on your website. I assume this pattern in on that disk?
Hi Adam,

The free version contain very basic patterns, it has Contrast Pattern (not Advanced Contrast Pattern), the free version is for basic check of a display which can work with free version of LightSpace DPS, CalMAN's ColorChecker and HCFR.

The full version has 150 patterns and full measurements runs to be able to do a complete SDR calibration and detailed verification.
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post #636 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 02:31 PM
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So from what I understand, technicolor is another HDR picture mode, different than HDR10 and Dolby Vision and HLG. What kind of metadata is used if any? What Calman or other work flows are you using since there are none for technicolor currently that i'm aware of, what gamma or EOTF are you using to take your measurements?

I'm just saying that I don't think we can be talking about this until we see some sort of workflow from any of the calibration companies to understand what we are really measuring

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post #637 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Adam,

The free version contain very basic patterns, it has Contrast Pattern (not Advanced Contrast Pattern), the free version is for basic check of a display which can work with free version of LightSpace DPS, CalMAN's ColorChecker and HCFR.

The full version has 150 patterns and full measurements runs to be able to do a complete SDR calibration and detailed verification.
Just purchased it, thanks Ted.
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post #638 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 04:43 PM
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John they support an SDR mode too. I believe that is what the others are presently talking about.
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post #639 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 04:46 PM
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will be okay to use gamut setting Extended? some games looks really dull in Autio settings, specially Yellow, its look like a strange green.
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post #640 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So from what I understand, technicolor is another HDR picture mode, different than HDR10 and Dolby Vision and HLG. What kind of metadata is used if any? What Calman or other work flows are you using since there are none for technicolor currently that i'm aware of, what gamma or EOTF are you using to take your measurements?

I'm just saying that I don't think we can be talking about this until we see some sort of workflow from any of the calibration companies to understand what we are really measuring
Sorry to disappoint but that?s incorrect, it?s just another picture preset the same as cinema preset ,measured WB and PQ are the same .
No difference at all really it measured the same as HDR cinema

Last edited by pazman2000; 10-03-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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post #641 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 10:30 PM
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John they support an SDR mode too. I believe that is what the others are presently talking about.
Nop I?m talking HDR too it?s just another picture presets no difference to cinema
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post #642 of 3120 Old 10-03-2017, 10:31 PM
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will be okay to use gamut setting Extended? some games looks really dull in Autio settings, specially Yellow, its look like a strange green.
Change colour temp to w30-40

Last edited by pazman2000; 10-03-2017 at 11:33 PM.
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post #643 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 04:38 AM
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Nop I?m talking HDR too it?s just another picture presets no difference to cinema


I was only interested in the technicolor sdr mode but if you say that there is no difference than it’s a shame for lg and just a marketing gag

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post #644 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pazman2000 View Post
Nop I?m talking HDR too it?s just another picture presets no difference to cinema


I was only interested in the technicolor sdr mode but if you say that there is no difference than it?s a shame for lg and just a marketing gag
It?s still another preset than can be fully calibrated so not all bad

Last edited by pazman2000; 10-04-2017 at 04:58 AM.
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post #645 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 05:53 AM
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It?s still another preset than can be fully calibrated so not all bad
Is the Technicolor preset available as part of down firmware?

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post #646 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pazman2000 View Post
It?s still another preset than can be fully calibrated so not all bad
Is the Technicolor preset available as part of down firmware?

Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk
yes after the new FW is installed the Technicolour presets appear with the others
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post #647 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 06:15 AM
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yes after the new FW is installed the Technicolour presets appear with the others
Thanks. Which FW is this? Is it available to public?

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post #648 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 06:21 AM
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yes after the new FW is installed the Technicolour presets appear with the others
Thanks. Which FW is this? Is it available to public?

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It?s been pulled now but should be available to all as I final release very soon .
Your not missing anything really .
Only positives I found are an extra preset that can be fully calibrated plus the 24p or 60p brightness is the same now
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post #649 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 07:47 AM
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Sorry to disappoint but that?s incorrect, it?s just another picture preset the same as cinema preset ,measured WB and PQ are the same .
No difference at all really it measured the same as HDR cinema
Yes I saw the menu but I would really like to know more details about the processing before trying to calibrate it. I'll see what I can find out.

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post #650 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 07:57 AM
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Sorry to disappoint but that?s incorrect, it?s just another picture preset the same as cinema preset ,measured WB and PQ are the same .
No difference at all really it measured the same as HDR cinema
Yes I saw the menu but I would really like to know more details about the processing before trying to calibrate it. I'll see what I can find out.
As I understood it it was going to be a another form of HDR but the reality is works no different from HDR 10 cinema preset

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post #651 of 3120 Old 10-04-2017, 09:28 PM
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@D-Nice calibrated my C7P on Tuesday. It looks great, by the way. But we discussed Rting's claim that 24p video required TruMotion set to User with both sliders at 0. I decided to replicate Rtings test, and my finding was different from Rtings, even using their own source material. I took their 24p video of a white square moving around, converted it to an mpg file using ffmpeg, and played it using my Oppo BDP-83, which outputs true 24p signal. I verified that it was in fact outputting 24p video using my Denon receiver, since I haven't found a way for the LG C7P to tell me the incoming frame rate. I then photographed the output on my TV with a 1s exposure using Real Cinema turned on and TruMotion disabled. All the squares were even brightness, indicating that the TV is properly displaying 24p content without judder. For comparison, I disabled Real Cinema and found that there was judder present. My conclusion is that Rting's recommendation of setting Trumotion to User with both sliders at 0 is incorrect and unnecessary. I've updated my spreadsheet. I'll go back and update my post of recommended settings as well.
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post #652 of 3120 Old 10-05-2017, 04:26 AM
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@D-Nice calibrated my C7P on Tuesday. It looks great, by the way. But we discussed Rting's claim that 24p video required TruMotion set to User with both sliders at 0. I decided to replicate Rtings test, and my finding was different from Rtings, even using their own source material. I took their 24p video of a white square moving around, converted it to an mpg file using ffmpeg, and played it using my Oppo BDP-83, which outputs true 24p signal. I verified that it was in fact outputting 24p video using my Denon receiver, since I haven't found a way for the LG C7P to tell me the incoming frame rate. I then photographed the output on my TV with a 1s exposure using Real Cinema turned on and TruMotion disabled. All the squares were even brightness, indicating that the TV is properly displaying 24p content without judder. For comparison, I disabled Real Cinema and found that there was judder present. My conclusion is that Rting's recommendation of setting Trumotion to User with both sliders at 0 is incorrect and unnecessary. I've updated my spreadsheet. I'll go back and update my post of recommended settings as well.
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post #653 of 3120 Old 10-05-2017, 06:06 AM
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Hello Everybody,
after weeks of consolidating the recommended settings from Rtings.com, this own Community, A/B testing and direct Calibration for my 55B7V, I'd like to share the setup I've finally settled with.

This setup is specifically optimized for Gaming and Media Consumption both for SDR and HDR Modes (Xbox One/S/X - WebOS, but should also work for PS4/Pro and PC Gaming):



> Xbox One and/or SDR Mode (Fall Creators Update Dashboard OS and above)


INPUT
HDMI1 Input Icon/Mode: Game Console
GENERAL
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color: ON
PICTURE
Picture Mode: Game
Energy Saving: OFF
OLED Light: 48 (or 60 if you want more "pop" )
Contrast: 85
Brightness: 49
Sharpness: 10
Color: 46
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W50
EXPERT CONTROLS
Dynamic Contrast: OFF
Dynamic Color: OFF
Super Resolution: OFF
Color Gamut: WIDE
Gamma: MEDIUM
PICTURE OPTIONS
Noise Reduction: OFF
MPEG Noise Reduction: OFF
Black Level: LOW
Real Cinema: OFF
Motion Eye Care: OFF
TruMotion: OFF
OLED PANEL SETTINGS
Screen Shift: ON

__________________________________________________ ______________________

> Xbox One S/X and/or HDR Mode (Fall Creators Update Dashboard OS and above)


INPUT
HDMI1 Input Icon/Mode: Game Console
GENERAL
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color: ON
PICTURE
HDR Picture Mode: HDR Game
Energy Saving: OFF
OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 10
Color: 55
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W50
EXPERT CONTROLS
Dynamic Contrast: MEDIUM
Dynamic Color: OFF
Super Resolution: OFF
Color Gamut: AUTO
Gamma: MEDIUM
PICTURE OPTIONS
Noise Reduction: OFF
MPEG Noise Reduction: OFF
Black Level: LOW
Real Cinema: OFF
Motion Eye Care: OFF
TruMotion: OFF
OLED PANEL SETTINGS
Screen Shift: ON

__________________________________________________ ____________________

>OG XBOX ONE - Console Settings:
VIDEO OUTPUT

TV Resolution: 1080p
TV Connection: AUTO-DETECT
Color Depth: 10-BIT
Color Space: Standard (Recommended)
Advanced settings: ALLOW 50HZ/24HZ

>XBOX ONE S/X - Console Settings:
VIDEO OUTPUT

TV Resolution: 4K
TV Connection: AUTO-DETECT
Color Depth: 10-BIT
Color Space: Standard (Recommended)
Advanced settings: ALLOW 50HZ/24HZ/HDR/4K/YCC 4:2:2 (VERY IMPORTANT TO FLAG ALL)______________________________________________ _________________________

Give it a spin if you want, and let me know how it looks also for you

Cheers,
Paolo

NOTE: Both Netflix and Blu-Ray apps on Xbox One X are currently bugged for everyone right now, have a read here --> https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...nd-xbox-one-s/

Until it is fixed on Xbox side, I recommend to just use the in-built TV Netflix app, that works perfectly with Technicolor Expert in SDR and Dolby Vision "Home Cinema" Mode for HDR (both with just TruMotion to set to User, De-Judder 0;De-Blur 0 in advanced options) --> FIXED WITH LATEST DASHBOARD UPDATE


EDIT1: Minor adjustments
EDIT2: After official release of Fall Creators Update for Xbox One, Picture Quality has changed, so settings were slightly re-calibrated!
EDIT3: Re-adjusted Color Temperature to match the default "Warm2" reference of ISF Dark Room preset.
EDIT4: Calibration re-done/updated after latest official LG 4.70.07+ Firmware, both for SDR and HDR.
EDIT5: Today I received my Xbox One X (Scorpio Edition), and after 4 hours testing, I re-done all the calibration based on the best results I got (No more "PC Input" in favor of "Game Console Input" + SDR/HDR Game Modes + values adjusted a bit). This is the final calibration, no more adjustments will be made. Enjoy!
EDIT6: Xbox One X HDR is now fixed both on Blu-Ray and Netflix app + I made very slight adjustment to SDR Color and HDR Color Gamut accordingly.
EDIT7: OP slightly adjusted for clarity.
EDIT8: Added a sample picture with everything set-up (also to demonstrate that calibrated HDR Game Mode is not dim at all, especially with DC set to MEDIUM ):
EDIT8: SDR Profile slightly adjusted after latest TV official 4.70.xx firmware changes in black levels.

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post #654 of 3120 Old 10-05-2017, 04:08 PM
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I just finally received my B7 55 TV. I've read the entire 22 pages here and noticed most of the settings are the same for everyone except the Colors which are I'm guessing done by a Professional.

But should I be OK Copying the ISF Dark Room settings for normal TV and the Cinema HDR for HDR content?

Or anyone recommends a good all around calibration? (I'd get a Pro to do it but I don't think we have Professional calibrators here in Colombia.)

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post #655 of 3120 Old 10-05-2017, 09:26 PM
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Three inter-related questions, two of which can answer the other one mathematically.

1. What is the black level used when calibrating the C7P? I've seen mentions of 0.00034 on the first page, but isn't it supposed to be perfect black?
2. What is considered a perceivable difference in nits? Is it an absolute difference, or logarithmic?
3. Is the black level close enough to zero that BT.1886 is imperceivably different from Gamma 2.4?

I can do the math on this if I know the first two answers. It comes down to, I've seen a lot of arguments over BT.1886 vs Gamma 2.4, but I'm thinking that for a display that comes reasonably close to perfect black, the argument is moot. I even find it odd that it's a separate option on the tv. I wonder what that setting uses as the black point for the BT.1886 calculation.
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post #656 of 3120 Old 10-06-2017, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
@D-Nice calibrated my C7P on Tuesday. It looks great, by the way. But we discussed Rting's claim that 24p video required TruMotion set to User with both sliders at 0. I decided to replicate Rtings test, and my finding was different from Rtings, even using their own source material. I took their 24p video of a white square moving around, converted it to an mpg file using ffmpeg, and played it using my Oppo BDP-83, which outputs true 24p signal. I verified that it was in fact outputting 24p video using my Denon receiver, since I haven't found a way for the LG C7P to tell me the incoming frame rate. I then photographed the output on my TV with a 1s exposure using Real Cinema turned on and TruMotion disabled. All the squares were even brightness, indicating that the TV is properly displaying 24p content without judder. For comparison, I disabled Real Cinema and found that there was judder present. My conclusion is that Rting's recommendation of setting Trumotion to User with both sliders at 0 is incorrect and unnecessary. I've updated my spreadsheet. I'll go back and update my post of recommended settings as well.
What I've been using and saying from day one. just need D-Nice to get my way and do a calibration on a couple of my sets
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post #657 of 3120 Old 10-06-2017, 07:41 AM
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What is the current take on calibrating color on the 2017 models? I am referring to a much earlier post by Chad B from initial impressions: "I see a disconnect between measured color gamut and color checker skin tone patch results and how the 7 series looks with real content. With color gamut at auto, bumping color up and tint toward red helps skin tones look more natural. This is the opposite of the 6 series."

Has there been any update on this matter? Should I trust the meter readings or should I increase the overall color slider - if so, what's a "ballpark" figure? 60?
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post #658 of 3120 Old 10-06-2017, 08:31 AM
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Still the same in my opinion. Color gamut auto, bump color up to the 53-56 range, tint to r3-r5.
Adjust the CMS conservatively. If you want to be sure you are not doing any harm with the CMS, adjust only tint/hue on the secondary colors.


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post #659 of 3120 Old 10-06-2017, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
Three inter-related questions, two of which can answer the other one mathematically.

1. What is the black level used when calibrating the C7P? I've seen mentions of 0.00034 on the first page, but isn't it supposed to be perfect black?
2. What is considered a perceivable difference in nits? Is it an absolute difference, or logarithmic?
3. Is the black level close enough to zero that BT.1886 is imperceivably different from Gamma 2.4?

I can do the math on this if I know the first two answers. It comes down to, I've seen a lot of arguments over BT.1886 vs Gamma 2.4, but I'm thinking that for a display that comes reasonably close to perfect black, the argument is moot. I even find it odd that it's a separate option on the tv. I wonder what that setting uses as the black point for the BT.1886 calculation.
Hi, when you will measure with K-10A (where you have checked it's black calibration level before any measurement.....this can be done using Klein ChromaSuft) in a ultra light controlled enviroment, even devices LED's have to been covered, the calibration notebook screen covered, then you will see 0nits measurement.

The BT.1886 give the exact same gamma targets per grayscale step only if you have 0 nits measured black.

If you have 0.00034 nits black level and 120 nits peak white then the target gamma for each LG grayscale step is:

5% -> 2.33
10% -> 2.36
15% -> 2.37
20% -> 2.37
25% -> 2.37
30% -> 2.38
35% -> 2.38
40% -> 2.38
45% -> 2.38
50% -> 2.38
55% -> 2.38
60% -> 2.38
65% -> 2.39
70% -> 2.39
75% -> 2.39
80% -> 2.39
85% -> 2.39
90% -> 2.39
95% -> 2.39
100% -> 2.39


When you have consumer meter like i1Display PRO for example which can't read such low as a Klein K-10A (0.00006 nits), if you have an ultra controlled environment and you see that you don't see a difference with the panel displaying a black pattern vs. display powered-off....then you can manually enter 0 nits, of use 2.4 Gamma target. (because brightness setting or calibration settings @ 5% RGB Balance can affect black level)

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post #660 of 3120 Old 10-06-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, when you will measure with K-10A (where you have checked it's black calibration level before any measurement.....this can be done using Klein ChromaSuft) in a ultra light controlled enviroment, even devices LED's have to been covered, the calibration notebook screen covered, then you will see 0nits measurement.

The BT.1886 give the exact same gamma targets per grayscale step only if you have 0 nits measured black.

If you have 0.00034 nits black level and 120 nits peak white then the target gamma for each LG grayscale step is:

5% -> 2.33
10% -> 2.36
15% -> 2.37
20% -> 2.37
25% -> 2.37
30% -> 2.38
35% -> 2.38
40% -> 2.38
45% -> 2.38
50% -> 2.38
55% -> 2.38
60% -> 2.38
65% -> 2.39
70% -> 2.39
75% -> 2.39
80% -> 2.39
85% -> 2.39
90% -> 2.39
95% -> 2.39
100% -> 2.39


When you have consumer meter like i1Display PRO for example which can't read such low as a Klein K-10A (0.00006 nits), if you have an ultra controlled environment and you see that you don't see a difference with the panel displaying a black pattern vs. display powered-off....then you can manually enter 0 nits, of use 2.4 Gamma target. (because brightness setting or calibration settings @ 5% RGB Balance can affect black level)
I have a i1Display PRO so in CalMAN can I set the black level to 0 nits instead of the measured black level option?
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