LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 42 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1231 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 05:41 AM
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@jbebel , thanks for your amazing compilation and recommendations. Great post!
I have a 55B7V, and I have just updated my settings to match what you have in this post. The only adjustment I did over your recommendations was to change the White Balance to Warm1, instead of Warm2 (the default), as I prefer it in that way. Aside from that I think that these settings, for one that is not planning on getting his set calibrated, are spot on.
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post #1232 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 05:59 AM
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I know there's been a lot of discussions around gamma and the industry diversity around it.
After a lot of hours reading about this and my own first calibration attempts this feels confusing, especially around matching it to actual content.

- What gamma settings have you settled with? And why?
- Also one question about HCFR and using the 20pt whitescale, whats the correct method of determine colour luminance on the TV in every 20 steps (in relation to gamma)?
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post #1233 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Can you see it an actual content?
I haven’t noticed it during content. When I get a chance tonight I will see if I can figure out a way to reproduce the banding.
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post #1234 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
@dnice has mentioned that the LGs have some sort of issue with YCC input but did not elaborate as to magnitude. I did some testing, results in this post, which indicate that they should not be viewable in typical content. So you should weigh your decision in that context. I suppose you might see something in an image which contains such a gradient but I would think that would be pretty rare and switching to wide mode would create color errors in every image.


Thanks zoyd,


The vast majority of my viewing content is in RGB ( PC gaming/console gaming) I have not noticed it during any Blueray/UHD playback but I haven't been looking for it either. I will try to sit down tonight after work and see if I can see the artifacts to pop up using some bluerays. Thanks for the input!
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post #1235 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfredo_Vic View Post
I know there's been a lot of discussions around gamma and the industry diversity around it.
After a lot of hours reading about this and my own first calibration attempts this feels confusing, especially around matching it to actual content.

- What gamma settings have you settled with? And why?
- Also one question about HCFR and using the 20pt whitescale, whats the correct method of determine colour luminance on the TV in every 20 steps (in relation to gamma)?
Hi, about Gamma. the standard now is Power Law 2.4, but some studios are using BT.1886 also (which is the same as Power Law 2.4 if they use an OLED), others following EBU (in Europe, or wider) which is Power Law 2.4 now, it was 2.35 before about some years (3, If I remember well) , older movies were mastered using 2.2.

EBU Tech Reference (Page 11): https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3320.pdf

For my setup, I use only 3D LUT correction tables and when I do display characterization I'm generating 6x different 3D LUT correction tables with different gamma's (2.2 / 2.25 / 2.30 / 2.35 / 2.4 / BT.1886) for REC.709...each 3D LUT correction table with different gamma setting took about 2-3 seconds to be generated with LightSpace (CalMAN Enthousiast/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS can be used also), so it's very easy for me to swap between my eeColor 3D LUT Box memories when I watch a movie that don't look very good to my setup, I have posted about this here: CMS controls broken

2.4 or BT.1886 for displays with zero black provides the exact same luminance targets per Grayscale step, if you measure the BT.1886 or 2.4 options of LG's, you will see that both provide the same gamma tracking, but even a small light leakage from environment during the black patch measurement can provide a different calculation of the targets.

For example, look how gamma per grayscale step is changing when your measured black level is 0.001 cd/m2 on a 120cdm/2 peak White Display, when you will ask BT-1886, the gamma curve for each grayscale step goes to:

2.29 @ 05% Gray
2.33 @ 10% Gray
2.35 @ 15% Gray
2.36 @ 20% Gray
2.36 @ 25% Gray
2.36 @ 30% Gray
2.37 @ 35% Gray
2.37 @ 40% Gray
2.37 @ 45% Gray
2.37 @ 50% Gray
2.37 @ 55% Gray
2.38 @ 60% Gray
2.38 @ 65% Gray
2.38 @ 70% Gray
2.38 @ 75% Gray
2.38 @ 80% Gray
2.38 @ 85% Gray
2.38 @ 90% Gray
2.38 @ 95% Gray

About the targets per Grayscale step with HCFR, the default dE calculation is not counting the (gamma) Luminance errors to the dE calculation, its calculating the dE based to measured RGB balance only.



Go to HCFR Preferences -> Advanced -> change the Color Difference Formula from Recommend to CIE2000....click Apply....and then change the Grayscale handling to ''Absolute Y w/gamma''

Look at each % Grey data the meter reports, there is a Y (which shows to you the measured luminance) and the Y target (which show the target luminance), and re-adjust your settings to fix gamma errors also.

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post #1236 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Absolutely not. Their dynamic tone mapping has proved to be the best at making images visually match the Sony BVM-X300, according to the voters at both the US and UK tv shootouts.

LG has told the press that their intent is not to follow the PQ curve,that it’s to make the TV visually match the mastering display.


Sony BMV-X300 following very accurately ST.2084 up to 1000nits and hard-clip anything beyond.

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post #1237 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


Sony BMV-X300 following very accurately ST.2084 up to 1000nits and hard-clip anything beyond.

I understand that folks have preferences but adhering to ST.2084 at least at low levels is required for accuracy.


There is no standard for tone-mapping but noticeably dimming the image at mid-levels is not desirable (IMO).
Measuring the LG 2017 (and other) tone-mapping systems requires test patterns that include full ramps or similar to engage tone-mapping.


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post #1238 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by filipepinheiro View Post
@jbebel , thanks for your amazing compilation and recommendations. Great post!
I have a 55B7V, and I have just updated my settings to match what you have in this post. The only adjustment I did over your recommendations was to change the White Balance to Warm1, instead of Warm2 (the default), as I prefer it in that way. Aside from that I think that these settings, for one that is not planning on getting his set calibrated, are spot on.
I'm glad they work well for you. Warm1 will be a cooler color temperature than the standard target of D65, but if the lighting in your room is cooler, then you might find a cooler temperature more appealing. If you are in a dark room, or a room with appropriate lighting, you might want to just try Warm2 for a while. You're eyes will adjust and the result will be closer to what the producer intended.
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post #1239 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, about Gamma. the standard now is Power Law 2.4, but some studios are using BT.1886 also (which is the same as Power Law 2.4 if they use an OLED), others following EBU (in Europe, or wider) which is Power Law 2.4 now, it was 2.35 before about some years (3, If I remember well) , older movies were mastered using 2.2.

EBU Tech Reference (Page 11): https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3320.pdf

For my setup, I use only 3D LUT correction tables and when I do display characterization I'm generating 6x different 3D LUT correction tables with different gamma's (2.2 / 2.25 / 2.30 / 2.35 / 2.4 / BT.1886) for REC.709...each 3D LUT correction table with different gamma setting took about 2-3 seconds to be generated with LightSpace (CalMAN Enthousiast/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS can be used also), so it's very easy for me to swap between my eeColor 3D LUT Box memories when I watch a movie that don't look very good to my setup, I have posted about this here: CMS controls broken

2.4 or BT.1886 for displays with zero black provides the exact same luminance targets per Grayscale step, if you measure the BT.1886 or 2.4 options of LG's, you will see that both provide the same gamma tracking, but even a small light leakage from environment during the black patch measurement can provide a different calculation of the targets.

For example, look how gamma per grayscale step is changing when your measured black level is 0.001 cd/m2 on a 120cdm/2 peak White Display, when you will ask BT-1886, the gamma curve for each grayscale step goes to:

2.29 @ 05% Gray
2.33 @ 10% Gray
2.35 @ 15% Gray
2.36 @ 20% Gray
2.36 @ 25% Gray
2.36 @ 30% Gray
2.37 @ 35% Gray
2.37 @ 40% Gray
2.37 @ 45% Gray
2.37 @ 50% Gray
2.37 @ 55% Gray
2.38 @ 60% Gray
2.38 @ 65% Gray
2.38 @ 70% Gray
2.38 @ 75% Gray
2.38 @ 80% Gray
2.38 @ 85% Gray
2.38 @ 90% Gray
2.38 @ 95% Gray

About the targets per Grayscale step with HCFR, the default dE calculation is not counting the (gamma) Luminance errors to the dE calculation, its calculating the dE based to measured RGB balance only.



Go to HCFR Preferences -> Advanced -> change the Color Difference Formula from Recommend to CIE2000....click Apply....and then change the Grayscale handling to ''Absolute Y w/gamma''

Look at each % Grey data the meter reports, there is a Y (which shows to you the measured luminance) and the Y target (which show the target luminance), and re-adjust your settings to fix gamma errors also.
Thanks a lot Ted, this makes sense. Tried out Casino Royale with gamma 2.4 and tried to raise IRE 5/10 to get more shadow details, but it certainly didnt look good. When switching to 2.2 everything looked so much better (but of course more washed out also) and shadow details looked like it should. Didn't occur to me that I should simply change PQ mode with different gamma depending of shown source.

About BT-1886/2.4 - If I done 20-point correctly, should I be able to pass that black level test (black clipping)? For now I have just done one proper calibration with a 2.4 curve and was quite on spot on gamma line, but I could just see flashing bars 22-25. Is that relevant and if so, whats the correct way of solving it? I have to raise brightness to 57-60 to be able to see it, but then again I ruin my perfect blacks. I have read about raising the "black floor" to get more shadow details (mostly in the 2016 OLED thread) but still keeping higher overall gamma curve.

Also thanks for clarifying about those settings in HCFR, don't know how I could miss this reading through all guides previously.
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post #1240 of 3181 Old 12-07-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfredo_Vic View Post
Thanks a lot Ted, this makes sense. Tried out Casino Royale with gamma 2.4 and tried to raise IRE 5/10 to get more shadow details, but it certainly didnt look good. When switching to 2.2 everything looked so much better (but of course more washed out also) and shadow details looked like it should. Didn't occur to me that I should simply change PQ mode with different gamma depending of shown source.

About BT-1886/2.4 - If I done 20-point correctly, should I be able to pass that black level test (black clipping)? For now I have just done one proper calibration with a 2.4 curve and was quite on spot on gamma line, but I could just see flashing bars 22-25. Is that relevant and if so, whats the correct way of solving it? I have to raise brightness to 57-60 to be able to see it, but then again I ruin my perfect blacks. I have read about raising the "black floor" to get more shadow details (mostly in the 2016 OLED thread) but still keeping higher overall gamma curve.

Also thanks for clarifying about those settings in HCFR, don't know how I could miss this reading through all guides previously.


You miss a lot of shadow detail when you only flashing bars from 22 and higher, 22 digital level is almost 3% Gray.

See that post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55275536

check with your meter placed to the red circle and then measure the near black patterns also.

What OLED model do you have?

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post #1241 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 02:47 AM
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@ConnecTEDDD
My model is LG OLED55B7V.

I will check that, looks like a good method determine black level.
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post #1242 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfredo_Vic View Post
@ConnecTEDDD
My model is LG OLED55B7V.

I will check that, looks like a good method determine black level.
There reports that some 2017 LG models have shipped with clipping everything below 4%, at every mode.

This can be fixed by increasing the Brightness to 60-62 (I give example) but it need test with measurements also, to prevent increasing the native black which later will provide 'glowing blacks'.

The method I posted, with pattern and measurements can prevent taking wrong decisions of the adjustments controls.

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post #1243 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jbebel View Post
In an effort to try to understand all the settings better, I made a chart of all the settings available in each picture mode, along with their defaults.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

I'm going to try to write up descriptions and recommendations of these as I understand them, and hopefully get feedback on my descriptions. Some immediate observations:
Several settings are constant across all presets:
Brightness: 50
Tint: 0
Black Level: Low
Real Cinema: On
Edge Enhancer: On
This leads me to think that these really should never be changed, unless calibration suggests a change in brightness, and even that has been contentious in some posts. The other questionable one, I think, is the Edge Enhancer. D-Nice suggests that should only be on for HDR, though LG's calibration doc doesn't specify HDR only. I haven't seen any other sources that even explain what this setting does. It's very strange for something called an Enhancer to be a bypass when turned on. In that case, it seems more like an "Edge Fuzzer". Why would anyone want it?

Another observation is that in all HDR modes, OLED Light is 100 and in all DV modes, OLED Light is always 50. In both HDR and DV, the contrast is set to 100. These all lead me to believe that OLED Light and Contrast shouldn't be modified in any of the HDR/DV presets. This aligns with members of this forum stating that these settings are tied to "Tone mapping" (something I have yet to understand). I do find it curious the discrepancy in OLED Light between HDR and DV presets. Why is one 50 and the other 100?

More to come.
Hi there, so looking at your spreadsheet, it has what is recommended to be changed but doesn’t actually say to what they should be changed. Where would I find that? Am I just reading wrong?
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post #1244 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
There reports that some 2017 LG models have shipped with clipping everything below 4%, at every mode.

This can be fixed by increasing the Brightness to 60-62 (I give example) but it need test with measurements also, to prevent increasing the native black which later will provide 'glowing blacks'.

The method I posted, with pattern and measurements can prevent taking wrong decisions of the adjustments controls.
Did your test as you described and yes - I had to raise brightness to 59-60 in order to just see bar 17+no glowing black. I always felt common recommendation of brightness set to 48-52 was off for me from the start, this explains everything. Thanks for this!

Another question, is there a way to have all 20-steps IRE displayed in HCFR? In order to have Y-targets for 5, 10, 15, 20, etc and not just 10,20,30,40..? Or can it be calculated?
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post #1245 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfredo_Vic View Post
Another question, is there a way to have all 20-steps IRE displayed in HCFR? In order to have Y-targets for 5, 10, 15, 20, etc and not just 10,20,30,40..? Or can it be calculated?
You can set 20-steps under Measures->Parameters->Number of greyscale levels (any number of levels can be set, not just 10, 20, etc.) Also, the near-black sequence is useful for what you are doing. In the same menu set number of near black levels to 10 and that sequence will measure 0-10% in 1% steps.
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post #1246 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 10:50 AM
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Hi there, so looking at your spreadsheet, it has what is recommended to be changed but doesn’t actually say to what they should be changed. Where would I find that? Am I just reading wrong?
Hover your mouse over the cells to see the recommendations. Or over the option names for a description of each option.
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post #1247 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Alfredo_Vic View Post
Did your test as you described and yes - I had to raise brightness to 59-60 in order to just see bar 17+no glowing black. I always felt common recommendation of brightness set to 48-52 was off for me from the start, this explains everything. Thanks for this!

Another question, is there a way to have all 20-steps IRE displayed in HCFR? In order to have Y-targets for 5, 10, 15, 20, etc and not just 10,20,30,40..? Or can it be calculated?
Good news for your calibration, make the near black bars flashing it's the 50% of the success, measure the the near black now and see what is the luminance of each (0.5%, 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5% Gray) according to the targets HCFR calculates from your selected Target Gamma. If there brigher, then you loose depth and it will look a bit wash-out the near black details.

Since you are using HCFR, before starting the measurements you have to select from HCFR's Preferences -> ''References'' Tab -> ''Color Checker Patterns'' drop down menu list.....and select ''CM 6-Point Near Black'' if you want to measure using CalMAN's 6-Point Near Black Chapter of my calibration disk you are using.

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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Yes you can, the i1D3 works fine for this measurement. I also found that the tone mapping that gets used depends only on the Master MaxL parameter, MaxCLL and MaxFALL had no effect.
Hi Zoyd,

Panasonic EZ1000 is counting MaxCLL, but not all values; it's ignoring ant MaxCLL below 401nits and above about 5000 nits. If you pause a frame and send different MaxCLL with HD Fury, the picture will change.
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post #1249 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Letuch View Post
Regarding LG 2017 and BT1886 crushing blacks a bit I was wondering, can I fix that with i1d3 and Calman? Can't remember if Calman allows to do gamma calibration separately or only along with greyscale? I know I can't really do greyscale without profiling my i1d3 which I can't do unfortunately. But current ISF Dark/HDR-DV Cinema RGB balance is pretty good so I'm more interested in a proper lower blacks right now.
Hi, see these links: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55275536

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55281126

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post49621609

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post #1250 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
Question for the professional calibrators, does the CMS introduce artifacts when used?

Should CMS be completely avoided? Know it introduced artifacts in 2016 OLEDs. Have heard conflicting info about 2017s.
Hi, the LG's can have differences per market regions, for example some US models/production dates can have less problems, some EU models/production dates can have very increased problem.

It's a problem of LG calibration control design, they can introduce posterization and banding artifacts, you can check grayscale/color ramps to see if you notice any problem and check various scenes with skintones to see if there problem with skin-shades which is the more noticed problem. You can check with various patterns or scenes (without meters) to adjust each control and write notes what it's the working range per control which will not introduce a visible to you problem. Also a combination of different adjustments of CMS controls can increase the problem to one color area. It need some testing to each panel to find out what is happening.

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post #1251 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mobblers View Post
Hi all, I've had my 55-inch C7 for about a week and I thought I would try to calibrate it. I have an Xbox One and a PC connected to the TV via HDMI and I'd like to calibrate both if possible. I'm using the AVS HD disc to do the basic settings first. On the Xbox I was able to set brightness and contrast without any problems but the PC is not being as straightforward. I can set brightness but the setting on the TV (38) seems to be much lower than most other people seem to be using on their TVs for brightness and when I try to set contrast I have all of the flashing white bars up to 253 visible even when contrast and OLED light are both set to 100. The TV is set to the Cinema (User) mode.

If I switch the Xbox to the HDMI inlet the PC is using I can set brightness and contrast as normal so I don't think it's a problem with the TV.

The PC uses an Nvidia Geforce GT 1030 graphics card with all settings in their default state and I'm playing the AVS HD disc with PowerDVD 12.

I suspect the problem may be to do with the settings on the graphics card but I've no idea what I should be looking at. Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance.
Hi, when you are using patterns created for Video (TV Legal Levels aka 16-235) from a PC software media player (in a PC Monitor), the player it expanding the Video Levels to PC Levels (16-235 -> 0-255).

If it will not expand then you will see the Black as 6.3% Gray. Since Black @ Data Levels (PC) is 0 while @ Video (TV Legal) Levels is 16.....About to your setup, it's not expanding....this is why you have to set your brightness so low (38); bacause Black looks as 6.3%.

But when a software player will expand from 16-235 to 0-255 then all information 1-16 becomes Black 0 and all information 234-254 becomes 255. This is the reason any pattern with flashing bars with below black 1-15 or above reference white (236-254) will clip (not flashing).

For playback from your PC software player, you can configure your PC to output 0-255, your software player to 16-235 and your LG display input to 16-235. Doing this you will be able to view correct all the levels of a Video Level encoding file (patterns/movies etc.) to the external display (your TV).
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post #1252 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by forin View Post
Hi everyone,

I purchased a C7 in July and had it calibrated in August by Chad B. Chad did a great job and the TV looks awesome. The other night I was bored and fired up Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition on my Oppo 203 and noticed some severe banding/artifacts in the Red ramp of the RGB ramp sections. I then tried using my PS4 Pro and saw the exact same banding/artifacts. The only way I was able to fix the banding was to either put the Oppo in RGB PC color space or simply change the color gamut from auto to Wide ( this corrected the banding/artifacts with both players). I spent hours going through and changing inputs and settings on the TV and both players, and only these 2 methods fixed the problem.

Obviously the problem is the TV, is anyone aware if LG changed the Color Gamut or if this is a known bug? I would like to figure out what is going on, maybe a botched firmware post calibration is to blame. I am hesitant to change the color gamut to wide due to having the tv professionally calibrated. I have included a link to a picture I took, the banding in the red is much more noticeable in person but it should give you a decent idea of what it looks like. Hopefully someone else has ran across this issue. Thanks for the help.

https://imgur.com/fxjk0iW

Craig
Hi Craig,

Try to see if using similar color ramps from other calibration disk has the same problem, because S&M2 disk is using Interactive Graphics layer streams (something like menu stills lets say for patterns; it's not a 4:2:0 video stream); this is why you can navigate thru patterns with the arrow keys of your remote, arrow keys are not working when you playback a video stream...you use next/previous chapter buttons with video stream.....arrow keys are working only when you navigating a movie menu.

Interactive Graphics layer streams don't have remaining time, if you look the times of each pattern you will see that it's 1 second only (it's like paused still pictures), Interactive Graphics layer streams can be full range RGB 4:4:4, so to some player they are not following the same video pipeline as video streams, some other players are putting these graphics layers to 4:2:0 path. So these patterns can be uncompressed and not suffering from compression issues.

This is the reason I recommending you to test any other calibration disk (even AVSHD) which has video stream (to emulate what is happening when you watch movie content also (which is video stream YCbCr 4:2:0).

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post #1253 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by forin View Post
Change your player output to 4:2:2.

LG's are not accepting 4:4:4 @ 24p (I mean without down convert it to 4:2:2 after receiving it), so sending 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 from OPPO makes no visual difference, but you add an extra conversion to your video signal flow, so it's better to send 4:2:2.

If you change your HDMI Input icon to PC icon, then the LG can accept 4:4:4 only when you send 60p signal, with 24p/30p/50p signal it makes no difference having PC icon enabled.

You can see that if you have some custom settings using 24p signal (with PC icon active), when you will send 60p signal the settings will go back to default ones (so need another set of settings for 60p input with PC Icon enabled).
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post #1254 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Only using CalMAN? I mean does CalMAN inject the IF? I've tried this the Vertex and HCFR and I can get the display into DV mode but it won't display patterns.
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Originally Posted by The Coolest View Post
Is the information on how to encode the DV metadata and how to send the info-frame publicly available, or is it proprietary/NDA information?
As I understand it, it should be possible to make DV work without anything between the GPU and display, as some games are DV enabled and can make it work.
About Dolby Vision Patch generation, as we know, if you have a notebook with accurate RGB output, you can use it as pattern generator for Dolby Vision using CalMAN's (Enthusiast at least) internal software generator. Its required a bit perfect RGB Video output to be able to generate DV patches, so Inter or Nvidia can work with proper configuration.

CalMAN sends a initially a test special signal; 1080p RGB 8bit signal is required (not 2160p 10bit), it's exact that picture: http://displaycalibrations.com/image...st_Pattern.png

This picture triggers the DV mode of VIZIO, but for LG it requires a display specific additional infoframe, the one HD Fury Integral is sending with CalMAN.

While the signal is a 8bit RGB only (called data wrapper); internally it has a YCbCr 4:2:2 12bit HDR signal with dynamic per frame metadata.

SpectraCAL has get from Dolby the documentation about how to generate that special RGB 8bit signal.

Zoyd, I think if you use your DVDO ColorChecker to grab what RGB triplet for the 21-Point Grayscale CM is using when it generated patterns for DV, it will be a good start to see if you can manage to generate some basic patterns with HCFR+HDFury combo.
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post #1255 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MackGuyver View Post
I'm a relatively new 65B7P owner and longtime hobbyist calibrator, going back to calibrating movie theaters for Regal, but I'm a little confused by the new HDR process. I've read all 38 pages of this post, along with many other sources, and even emailed the SpectraCal guys, but can't seem to figure out a few things:

1. Is it possible to calibrate DV without the VideoForge PRO? SpectraCal said no (via email), but some posts on here act like it is built into CalMan. If so, does the Enthusiast version allow this?

2. I see talk about the issues with colorimeters and LG OLEDs, but is the i1Display good enough to use for home, i.e. non-professional results?

3. How many settings need to be calibrated? It seems that the TV has separate settings for each input and then for SDR, HD, 4K SDR, 4K HDR, 4K HDR10, DV, and others? For each color space? Going through the RM UHD|HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite, it seems like there are numerous things to calibrate.

Any help or advice is much appreciated!
Hi,

1) About Dolby Vision Patch generation, if you have a notebook with accurate 1080p60 8-bit RGB output, you can use it as pattern generator for Dolby Vision using CalMAN's (Enthusiast) internal software generator, you will need HD Fury Integral to add the LG (display specific) additional infoframe to trigger DV mode of LG.

For LG OLED's 2017, they have the capability to upload via USB new settings for the DV tone mapping to the TV internally, you need to trigger DV Relative mode...which bypass the internal DV tone mapping of the display and you calibrate for Power Law Gamma 2.2 as target because DV expect a calibrated 2.2 Gamma display to apply their internal mapping....and then after uploading the new DV file to the display internally, you take post-cal measurements with DV Absolute mode.

2) You can use i1Display PRO, just not the OLED table the meter is coming, but select the default (factory calibrated table). (Zoyd has confirmed this by comparing the OLED and Generic table using his JETI 1211 with LG B7 before some days.)

X-Rite used a Sony PVM-2541 RGB OLED Monitor to create the OLED spectral correction for i1Display PRO which can be useful when you will measure the Sony or FSI (Flanders Scientific Inc.) RGB OLED Broadcasting Monitors and not a consumer LG WRGB OLED or the following brands which are using LG's WRGB OLED panel also: Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Loewe, Philips, Skyworth, Metz, Grundig, Vestel, Arçelik and Bang & Olufsen.

A lot of info for X-Rite meters you can find there: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/x...ions_info.html

3) For SDR 1080p, SDR 4K, HD, you need one calibration, for REC.709, and patterns for REC.709. If you like do a secondary for REC.709 with more peak output to use it for day/lights-on view.

For HDR10 you will use the Ryan's patterns you have.

For DV you will use CM, a bit-perfect PC/Notebook RGB output and HD Intergral.
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post #1256 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi,

1) About Dolby Vision Patch generation, if you have a notebook with accurate 1080p60 8-bit RGB output, you can use it as pattern generator for Dolby Vision using CalMAN's (Enthusiast) internal software generator, you will need HD Fury Integral to add the LG (display specific) additional infoframe to trigger DV mode of LG.

For LG OLED's 2017, they have the capability to upload via USB new settings for the DV tone mapping to the TV internally, you need to trigger DV Relative mode...which bypass the internal DV tone mapping of the display and you calibrate for Power Law Gamma 2.2 as target because DV expect a calibrated 2.2 Gamma display to apply their internal mapping....and then after uploading the new DV file to the display internally, you take post-cal measurements with DV Absolute mode.

2) You can use i1Display PRO, just not the OLED table the meter is coming, but select the default (factory calibrated table). (Zoyd has confirmed this by comparing the OLED and Generic table using his JETI 1211 with LG B7 before some days.)

X-Rite used a Sony PVM-2541 RGB OLED Monitor to create the OLED spectral correction for i1Display PRO which can be useful when you will measure the Sony or FSI (Flanders Scientific Inc.) RGB OLED Broadcasting Monitors and not a consumer LG WRGB OLED or the following brands which are using LG's WRGB OLED panel also: Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Loewe, Philips, Skyworth, Metz, Grundig, Vestel, Arçelik and Bang & Olufsen.

A lot of info for X-Rite meters you can find there: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/x...ions_info.html

3) For SDR 1080p, SDR 4K, HD, you need one calibration, for REC.709, and patterns for REC.709. If you like do a secondary for REC.709 with more peak output to use it for day/lights-on view.

For HDR10 you will use the Ryan's patterns you have.

For DV you will use CM, a bit-perfect PC/Notebook RGB output and HD Intergral.
Ted,

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. I ordered CM Home Enthusiast with the i1 Display (bundle) and hit up Monoprice for an HDFury Integral, so next week I should have what I need.

That, plus the information you just gave me should get me started with everything I need. Thanks again for your help!

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post #1257 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
You can set 20-steps under Measures->Parameters->Number of greyscale levels (any number of levels can be set, not just 10, 20, etc.) Also, the near-black sequence is useful for what you are doing. In the same menu set number of near black levels to 10 and that sequence will measure 0-10% in 1% steps.
Great! Thanks Zoyd.

@ConnecTEDDD
Will absolutely do more experimenting with the near black test. And again, thanks for your time with all the answers, appreciate it!
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post #1258 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by matrix123 View Post
One last question. EDGE ENHANCER? On or Off? Thanks again. 👍
Hi, according to LG 2017 calibration instructions, the ‘Edge Enhancer’ setting in the Expert Picture Mode Settings does not increase sharpness; the default ‘On’ setting is a bypass function, and is therefore recommended.

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post #1259 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
About Dolby Vision Patch generation, as we know, if you have a notebook with accurate RGB output, you can use it as pattern generator for Dolby Vision using CalMAN's (Enthusiast at least) internal software generator. Its required a bit perfect RGB Video output to be able to generate DV patches, so Inter or Nvidia can work with proper configuration.

CalMAN sends a initially a test special signal; 1080p RGB 8bit signal is required (not 2160p 10bit), it's exact that picture: http://displaycalibrations.com/image...st_Pattern.png

This picture triggers the DV mode of VIZIO, but for LG it requires a display specific additional infoframe, the one HD Fury Integral is sending with CalMAN.
Does the Vertex send the same "display specific additional infoframe" for LGs?

Quote:
While the signal is a 8bit RGB only (called data wrapper); internally it has a YCbCr 4:2:2 12bit HDR signal with dynamic per frame metadata.

SpectraCAL has get from Dolby the documentation about how to generate that special RGB 8bit signal.

Zoyd, I think if you use your DVDO ColorChecker to grab what RGB triplet for the 21-Point Grayscale CM is using when it generated patterns for DV, it will be a good start to see if you can manage to generate some basic patterns with HCFR+HDFury combo.
Yes, I have thought about using the DVDO to sniff the triplets but I'd rather have the algorithm.
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post #1260 of 3181 Old 12-08-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Does the Vertex send the same "display specific additional infoframe" for LGs?
Currently with CM only HD Fury Integral is working, but if you have Intergral and Vertex also, try to connect Vertex after Integral and see if you can grab the infoframe CM generates for Intergral.

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