LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 45 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1321 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
2) You can use i1Display PRO, just not the OLED table the meter is coming, but select the default (factory calibrated table). (Zoyd has confirmed this by comparing the OLED and Generic table using his JETI 1211 with LG B7 before some days.)
Ted, when you say not to use the OLED table, do you mean this setting (see screenshot)? Are you saying to use the "Raw XYZ" setting? Or is this something completely different?

Thank you in advance for your help!
Ian
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post #1322 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 06:33 PM
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I recommend extended based on how and what happens on these LGs with color performance in the lower stimuli levels of which most individuals ignore but should not since these levels impact regular content far more than standard stimuli measurements.



My measuments come from a 5nm PR670. If you are using something less than a 5nm Spector, on top of panel variables during a model year, expect differences;



The above answers your question.


Any chance you will be in the San Francisco area in the coming months for a 55B7A calibration?


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post #1323 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 08:19 PM
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https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b7-b7a-oled

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The B7P can display 24p movies without judder from 24p, 60p, and 60i sources.

For 24p movies playing from 24p sources like DVD or Blu-rays players, the 'Real Cinema' option must be turned on, and the 'TrueMotion' set to 'User' with both the 'De-Judder' and 'De-Blur' sliders set to zero.
I used this blurbusters test and there is no difference between Truemotion set to 0 and "off", so I don't know what they're talking about.

Only at 1 do you start to get interpolation artifacts. It appears that 0 literally means "off". This makes sense since you can control the interpolation settings between film (de-judder) and video (de-blur).

https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

I've backed off the de-judder from 2 to 1 as I can still see the video look in some scenes at 2 and I don't like it.

De-blur is at 10.
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post #1324 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 08:32 PM
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Hey guys, newly installed 65C7 yesterday and working through some kinks with cables and getting my ATV4K to enable DV.

I am looking for some assistance with proper settings for watching hockey streaming from my ATV. I have been trying lots of settings from Standard to Cinema (HDR) while the picture looks fantastic I am unable to figure out the judder as if the picture is skipping frames.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, looking for anyone in the Vancouver, Canada area to do a calibration for me. I have BB coming to the calibration next month, however after reading the posts here and the horrible results, I may as well cancel it now and get someone more qualified. Thank you!

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post #1325 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 09:17 PM
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Any chance you will be in the San Francisco area in the coming months for a 55B7A calibration?


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I’ll be there right after Christmas. I’ll PM you.
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post #1326 of 3274 Old 12-14-2017, 11:27 PM
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Also, looking for anyone in the Vancouver, Canada area to do a calibration for me. I have BB coming to the calibration next month, however after reading the posts here and the horrible results, I may as well cancel it now and get someone more qualified. Thank you!
Are you willing to wait until the summer of 2018? Because that's when Michael Chen will be doing a calibration tour of Vancouver--see here and make sure to check out the rest of his website. If you don't know who he is, well, this is only a slight exaggeration, but he's a calibration god--just google him or check him out at this forum (he's not very active here, though).

He calibrated my rear-projection Toshiba way back in 2001 (I had a pet dinosaur back then--his name was Dino). How can I explain it? It was like watching a magician performing tricks, with the magician also revealing in detail how he performed each trick. Believe it or not, he used electrical tape to partially cover two of the CRT guns and used a piece of string like a puppet master to manually adjust something inside the TV without fully removing the screen (I'm sure this rings a few bells for the old-time calibrators), and this improved the PQ by leaps and bounds. Sorcery, I say.

Very friendly guy. He'll answer any question you have--you'll definitely get your AV geek on.

I keep my TVs for a long time and I've only ever owned three, including this LG, that was worth calibrating. I probably shouldn't say this knowing the people who might be reading this, but I'm so satisfied with how this panel looks out of the box--after choosing some recommended picture modes, of course--that I just might forego having it calibrated. I have one of those panels manufactured in November (determined from the serial number) and jrref mentioned that last month's panels were pretty accurate, so maybe I got my hands on one of those. I still might wait for Mr. Chen, though. Lots of time to think about it.
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post #1327 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 01:40 AM
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Are you willing to wait until the summer of 2018? Because that's when Michael Chen will be doing a calibration tour of Vancouver--see here and make sure to check out the rest of his website. If you don't know who he is, well, this is only a slight exaggeration, but he's a calibration god--just google him or check him out at this forum (he's not very active here, though).

He calibrated my rear-projection Toshiba way back in 2001 (I had a pet dinosaur back then--his name was Dino). How can I explain it? It was like watching a magician performing tricks, with the magician also revealing in detail how he performed each trick. Believe it or not, he used electrical tape to partially cover two of the CRT guns and used a piece of string like a puppet master to manually adjust something inside the TV without fully removing the screen (I'm sure this rings a few bells for the old-time calibrators), and this improved the PQ by leaps and bounds. Sorcery, I say.

Very friendly guy. He'll answer any question you have--you'll definitely get your AV geek on.

I keep my TVs for a long time and I've only ever owned three, including this LG, that was worth calibrating. I probably shouldn't say this knowing the people who might be reading this, but I'm so satisfied with how this panel looks out of the box--after choosing some recommended picture modes, of course--that I just might forego having it calibrated. I have one of those panels manufactured in November (determined from the serial number) and jrref mentioned that last month's panels were pretty accurate, so maybe I got my hands on one of those. I still might wait for Mr. Chen, though. Lots of time to think about it.
Thank you for this information and link, he sounds like the right guy for the job, although summer is a long ways away. Perhaps I will get some basic guidance on settings in the meantime.

Thanks again!

Preet
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Thank you for this information and link, he sounds like the right guy for the job, although summer is a long ways away. Perhaps I will get some basic guidance on settings in the meantime.

Thanks again!
I will also be in Vancouver April ‘18.
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For those doing their own calibration, in any ISF or Technicolor mode with color gamut set to Auto, out of the box when you do the 2 pt., do you see any red, green, or blue push in the High?

I have some interesting information but I am curious of what folks are finding on their sets. Also say when you got your set so we know approximately when it was built.

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post #1330 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 07:44 AM
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I’ll be there right after Christmas. I’ll PM you.


That might work, shot you a PM with some questions.


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post #1331 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 08:51 AM
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For those doing their own calibration, in any ISF or Technicolor mode with color gamut set to Auto, out of the box when you do the 2 pt., do you see any red, green, or blue push in the High?

I have some interesting information but I am curious of what folks are finding on their sets. Also say when you got your set so we know approximately when it was built.
I've been able to pretty much nail the white balance in all modes other than DV so far (can't get the HDFury Integral to work at all!).

Doing the CMS calibration, I'm able to get every color dialed in really well, except red. No matter how I tweak it, it won't line up for me.

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post #1332 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Hi, TV's are handling JPG's/PNG's or any Picture files @ 0-255 Data Levels. (PC's are working in Data Levels also), so slides will not work if you want to calibrate for video levels (Blu-Ray).

This means that if you create a pattern with reference black RGB Triplet of 16.16.16 (Reference Black @ Video Levels) and save it as JPG.....when you will load it to your TV's USB, the TV will display it as 6.3% Gray, since reference black for Data levels is 0.0.0

You will need to load video patterns files encoded for video levels to your TV USB Input and when you get a stand-alone player load the patterns from there.
Ted, thanks. I know this question is a bit out of the calibration thread but would it be safe to assume the built in netflix, prime, and youtube app on the lg operates at data levels or do they adjust it to video levels during playback? Is chromecast ultra the same? Appletv4k? I know bluray is at video levels but now im curious about streaming devices.
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post #1333 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 09:35 AM
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I've been able to pretty much nail the white balance in all modes other than DV so far (can't get the HDFury Integral to work at all!).

Doing the CMS calibration, I'm able to get every color dialed in really well, except red. No matter how I tweak it, it won't line up for me.
Mine is from Nov 17 and have issues with red push as well. Interested to hear jrref's theory.
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post #1334 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 09:58 AM
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Mine is from Nov 17 and have issues with red push as well. Interested to hear jrref's theory.
The good news, IMHO, is that I don't see the red push when viewing anything even if the sensor says it's there. I suppose you could try to balance it out by bumping up the blue saturation if it's an issue.

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OK, so we did a special project at VE, an art gallery exposition on LG OLEDs. If you are interested take a look at the Value Electronics web site.

I looked at 7 recent C7's and 6 B7's and i got the same red push on every set. At first i thought it was my equipment or maybe the way i was profiling but after checking everything, and when i did a Sony OLED, everything was normal. I even compared known content with my calibrated PM to an uncalibrated PM with the same brightness, etc.. and i could see the red push easily with my eye. But of course I was looking for it. That said and the fact that you guys were having trouble with Red, my guess is that LG went in again and adjusted the calibration at the factory. I've seen them do this a few times during the model year and most of the time they make the factory calibration better. This recent tweak seemed to make it worse with this red push. As far as the CMS, Yes you can only adjust Red a little. The 100% is over saturated.

So if you are calibrating, this really doesn't present an issue but for those copying other peoples calibration settings, it makes them 100% incorrect, absolutely no chance, unless your set was built around the same time the set with the original settings could you even have a remote chance of getting a match.
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post #1336 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 03:43 PM
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I will also be in Vancouver April ‘18.
Sent you a PM

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post #1337 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 04:22 PM
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OK, so we did a special project at VE, an art gallery exposition on LG OLEDs. If you are interested take a look at the Value Electronics web site.

I looked at 7 recent C7's and 6 B7's and i got the same red push on every set. At first i thought it was my equipment or maybe the way i was profiling but after checking everything, and when i did a Sony OLED, everything was normal. I even compared known content with my calibrated PM to an uncalibrated PM with the same brightness, etc.. and i could see the red push easily with my eye. But of course I was looking for it. That said and the fact that you guys were having trouble with Red, my guess is that LG went in again and adjusted the calibration at the factory. I've seen them do this a few times during the model year and most of the time they make the factory calibration better. This recent tweak seemed to make it worse with this red push. As far as the CMS, Yes you can only adjust Red a little. The 100% is over saturated.

So if you are calibrating, this really doesn't present an issue but for those copying other peoples calibration settings, it makes them 100% incorrect, absolutely no chance, unless your set was built around the same time the set with the original settings could you even have a remote chance of getting a match.
Maybe Im crazy but sonoftumbles settings (i dont use his cms adjustments) look pretty dang good on my set and helped remove the red push. Sonoftumble, did your screen have a red or other push pre-calibration? When was it manufactured? Have you thought about calibrating one of the November 2017 sets, know many purchased it during black friday. One can dream, eh? Lol
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post #1338 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 04:43 PM
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I've been able to pretty much nail the white balance in all modes other than DV so far (can't get the HDFury Integral to work at all!).



Doing the CMS calibration, I'm able to get every color dialed in really well, except red. No matter how I tweak it, it won't line up for me.


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post #1339 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 06:33 PM
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Maybe Im crazy but sonoftumbles settings (i dont use his cms adjustments) look pretty dang good on my set and helped remove the red push. Sonoftumble, did your screen have a red or other push pre-calibration? When was it manufactured? Have you thought about calibrating one of the November 2017 sets, know many purchased it during black friday. One can dream, eh? Lol
That's because looking at his settings, he reduces red quite a bit for his set. I tried some of his settings on a sample set and wound up with a much cooler picture which is probably why it looks better to you. You took your set which was probably pretty accurate at D65 and made it inaccurate towards blue. I'm going to be working on another C7 next week and i'll put in his settings and take a scan so you can see what it looks like. For his set i'm sure it's right on but instead of speculating, i'll post the results so everyone can see what happens.

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post #1340 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 09:13 PM
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For those doing their own calibration, in any ISF or Technicolor mode with color gamut set to Auto, out of the box when you do the 2 pt., do you see any red, green, or blue push in the High?

I have some interesting information but I am curious of what folks are finding on their sets. Also say when you got your set so we know approximately when it was built.
I've had 3 b7a come through my house and all of them show a heavy green/cyan push out of the box. They were purchased and exchanged in October and November. Frankly, I've never encountered any tvs like these and calibration has been a hassle as none of my meters(i1pro 2 and idisplay pro) measure any excess of green. In fact, the measurements show an accurate grayscale with low de but my eyes tell me a different story. I had to use warm 3 to get enough red in the grayscale but I still had to dial green down about 30 clicks and increase blue as well.

I used the isf app on a ipad to get a visual match but of course it's not optimal. I have a couple of lcds in the house including a sony 940c and a small vizio which I can move into my room to get a visual match. Again not ideal but I got rid of my kuro and obviously can't move the 940c. If anybody has any tips on what I'm dealing with, that would be most welcome.
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for someone who comes from a plasma and does not have access to calibretors or much less equipment to measure (third world) but loves to watch movies and play in a dark room, recommend maintaining the default settings with gamma 2.2 or bt1886 uncalibrated?

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post #1342 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 10:26 PM
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I've had 3 b7a come through my house and all of them show a heavy green/cyan push out of the box. They were purchased and exchanged in October and November. Frankly, I've never encountered any tvs like these and calibration has been a hassle as none of my meters(i1pro 2 and idisplay pro) measure any excess of green. In fact, the measurements show an accurate grayscale with low de but my eyes tell me a different story. I had to use warm 3 to get enough red in the grayscale but I still had to dial green down about 30 clicks and increase blue as well.

I used the isf app on a ipad to get a visual match but of course it's not optimal. I have a couple of lcds in the house including a sony 940c and a small vizio which I can move into my room to get a visual match. Again not ideal but I got rid of my kuro and obviously can't move the 940c. If anybody has any tips on what I'm dealing with, that would be most welcome.
For curiosity's sake, here are my CMS values for HDR10:

Red: -30,0,30
Green: -3,8,19
Blue: 0,-1,6
Cyan: 7,2,16
Magenta: 0,14,11
Yellow: 3,-3,9

The Red might as well be 0,0,0, but there is just enough improvement at these extremes to leave it this way. Gray tracking shows this red push as well, mostly from 150+ IIRC.

As I said before, the other colors all go nearly to 0, but red barely budges at all. White balance is nearly zero, though using 2-pt WB. Haven't gone for the full WB, yet...waiting until the TV has a couple more weeks' use.

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post #1343 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 10:27 PM
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The good news, IMHO, is that I don't see the red push when viewing anything even if the sensor says it's there. I suppose you could try to balance it out by bumping up the blue saturation if it's an issue.
I don't belong in this conversation because I'm not an amateur calibrator and I'm just going by my untrained eyes, so FWIW.

I put up the 100% white full-field pattern from AVS HD 709 recently to check for yellow banding--didn't see it. The white also didn't look pinkish to me. I haven't detected any overly reddish flesh tones in actual content, either. If my panel does have red push (my panel is from Nov. 2017 like Venomous21), then I'm in the same boat as you and can't see it when viewing anything. BTW, I have a B7P panel and this was viewed in technicolor Expert mode with Color Gamut set to Auto.

The 100% white did look a bit greenish, actually. I think that has more to do with our eyes being accustomed to believing that bluish white is real white, so real white may look a bit reddish or greenish to ordinary folks like me. That means, of course, that if I did happen to see a pinkish white, it may be due to this rather than red push. So I guess that's the whole point of using calibration equipment--to remove subjectivity from the equation as much as possible.

This begs the question, if the equipment can see it but you can't, is it--for all intents and purposes--really there and does it matter? Rhetorical question, BTW, because I'm way in over my head here and it's just something fun to ponder.
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post #1344 of 3274 Old 12-15-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by forreal View Post
This begs the question, if the equipment can see it but you can't, is it--for all intents and purposes--really there and does it matter? Rhetorical question, BTW, because I'm way in over my head here and it's just something fun to ponder.
I don't get caught up in that kind of argument with myself - I get as close as I can to the correct measurements and I'm happy with them, especially if I can't see any difference.

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post #1345 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 04:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
Maybe Im crazy but sonoftumbles settings (i dont use his cms adjustments) look pretty dang good on my set and helped remove the red push. Sonoftumble, did your screen have a red or other push pre-calibration? When was it manufactured? Have you thought about calibrating one of the November 2017 sets, know many purchased it during black friday. One can dream, eh? Lol
Don't follow his settings he's an amateur with settings that WILL NOT work properly on other sets. AVOID.
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post #1346 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
That's because looking at his settings, he reduces red quite a bit for his set. I tried some of his settings on a sample set and wound up with a much cooler picture which is probably why it looks better to you. You took your set which was probably pretty accurate at D65 and made it inaccurate towards blue. I'm going to be working on another C7 next week and i'll put in his settings and take a scan so you can see what it looks like. For his set i'm sure it's right on but instead of speculating, i'll post the results so everyone can see what happens.
CONSPIRACY THEORY 101

LG are pushing red a bit more in the latest production runs to reduce yellow impact on burn-in. Pushing red rather than blue or green as it produces warmer flesh tones.


LGOLED55C7P - Calman Enthusiast - I1Display / I1Pro

Last edited by PeteNeat; 12-16-2017 at 07:21 AM.
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post #1347 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 07:44 AM
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^^^
To answer everyone's questions and to put things in perspective I want to say a couple of things:

1) I don't know much about sonoftumble but his calman scans look "OK". Not actually measuring his set, it's not possible for me to tell if his calibration settings are correct, especially the CMS. The whole point of referencing his settings and others who "advertise" them, is to let everyone know, especially users who have no idea of what they are doing and are looking for "advice", the flip side of using another set's settings and the almost certain result of making whatever you have worse even though it might look better to your eyes in the beginning. Remember your brain equates change with better. If there were some "magic" settings that worked on every set, LG would put them in at the factory and that would be it. lol

2) As someone mentioned above, there are many users here who we know nothing about their experience, equipment, etc.. so their posts should be used as a "suggestion" or settings to think about, discuss, and how they may work but not something that you absolutely have to do to get a better picture. There are some professional calibrators such as Chadb and D-Nice and other experienced home calibrators who you can definitely take what they are reporting as pretty much fact. But again, you will never see them "advertise" calibration settings. What you will see are suggestions such as experimenting with the Brightness control to get better near black, suggested Calman settings, some experience setting color and tint, white point etc.. They will post scans to back up what they are saying on occasion as well.

3) As far as the red push on these LGs, my suggestion is if you see it and it bothers you, either calibrate the set or go into the 2 Pt high and lower the red and then blue 1 click at a time until it becomes unnoticeable. Remember when you start lowering red, blue will rise so you may want to try -2 red and -1 blue, -4 red and -2 blue. Again totally not scientific but if you are going to do anything you can experiment with this. I would never play with the 20 pt without equipment because doing so is like doing surgery with a blind fold on in the dark. As far as the one user stating that he was having trouble calibrating his set. The meter shows one thing and his eyes show another. If you have everything set up correctly and everything is set to D65 and balanced and you are still seeing red or green white then there is something wrong with your eyes or your set-up. Remember as we get older we start to see white getting towards yellow.

4) For the guy adjusting the HDR CMS settings, I never touch them unless they are really out because red is totally broken. LG knows this and it's not getting fixed for whatever reason.

5) For the guy with the gamma question, this is totally subjective, there is no right or wrong answer. For me i like 1886 for dark room and movie viewing and also calibrated in a bright picture mode.

Finally i just want to leave with the message that LG has done a lot of great work to make this consumer TV as good as they can out of the box. If you are not going to get your set calibrated, use one of the Expert picture modes and just adjust the OLED light to your liking, if you turn it down low, try raising the brightness one or two clicks buy not over 52, adjust Tru Motion if you need to and enjoy the set! And remember that these OLEDs are not perfect so there will always be some slight banding and tinting but it shouldn't be so much as to distract your viewing with normal content. If it does, get another set.
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post #1348 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 07:59 AM
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May I make a recommendation.... Can everyone stop saying red push and use the correct terms of either red bias or plus red grayscale? If I’m interpreting what you guys are talking about, the grayscale is more red OOTB on later builds compared to previous builds. “push” is more so a color decoding term from the analog days.

Although I have not been keeping up with build dates when I’m in the field, I have not had any issues getting any of these LGs where they need to be post cal. They all come out fantastic. I have a few LG calibrations between today and tomorrow and will report what I find..... especially with the new .36 firmware.
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post #1349 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 08:11 AM
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^^^
Yes we were talking about the gray scale being more red OOTB on recent builds compared to previous builds but you are correct, it has no consequence when calibrating. It was an OOTB PQ issue.

The observation I was talking to you about the other day was with the Sony.

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post #1350 of 3274 Old 12-16-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
The observation I was talking to you about the other day was with the Sony.
Ahh ok. I still have not seen that issue.
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