LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MackGuyver View Post
Ted, when you say not to use the OLED table, do you mean this setting (see screenshot)? Are you saying to use the "Raw XYZ" setting? Or is this something completely different?

Thank you in advance for your help!
Ian
Hi Ian,

The Generic CMF is the default table of the meter which is calibrated from the factory. X-Rite is using a Konica-Minolta CS-1000 spectroradiometer during the manufacturing process.

HCFR, LightSpace and X-Rite is calling that table as Generic CMF.

As I can you from display types of CalMAN, it doesn't have that option. I believe its the RAW XYZ table you have there the same as Genereic CMF; but to be sure ask Zoyd that question to confirm (which can connect his meter with CalMAN).

Generally there a lot of info about your meter to see here.

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post #1352 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Remember as we get older we start to see white getting towards yellow.
Yep, the lens in your eyeball yellows over time. I can verify this in a very personal way. About a year and a half ago, I had cataract surgery on one eye, meaning the old natural lens was replaced with a new artificial one. If I close my eye that has the new lens and look through my eye with the lens from birth, everything looks the same as before; do the opposite and suddenly everything looks whiter and "brighter."

So the moral of the story is obvious: any professional calibrator worth his salt should have cataract surgery. BTW, I asked my ophthalmologist for the lens with x-ray vision, but nada.
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post #1353 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
As I can you from display types of CalMAN, it doesn't have that option. I believe its the RAW XYZ table you have there the same as Genereic CMF; but to be sure ask Zoyd that question to confirm (which can connect his meter with CalMAN).
Yes, CalMAN's Raw XYZ is the same as Generic CMF.
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post #1354 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
I will also be in Vancouver April ‘18.
Hey D-nice, sent you a PM, would like to book something with you in April

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post #1355 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 08:21 PM
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One of you mofos needs to come to north Florida and calibrate my set or im going to have to buy calibration equipment and figure it out myself...problem is my wife might kill me if i buy expensive calibration equipment but such is life. 3d lut calibration ftw?

Geek squad are only calibrators in my area...and will NEVER touch my set lol.
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post #1356 of 3197 Old 12-16-2017, 09:58 PM
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To Bypass Artificial Sharpening, Edge Enhancer Should Be Set to OFF

Hey everyone,

I posted this over on 2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk), but that's a pretty long thread and I thought it couldn't hurt to cross-post it here, since there seems to be some confusion about Edge Enhancer.

From my testing, all that Edge Enhancer seems to do is enable or disable the Sharpness setting. If you set it to OFF, then Sharpness control is bypassed and has no effect. If you set it to ON, then the picture will show the effect of however Sharpness is set.

You can test this yourself: Set Sharpness to 0 and then switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF and you'll see no change to the picture. Next, max out Sharpness to 50. Now switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF. You'll see a normal unsharpened image with OFF and ugly sharpening with ON.

I've tested with both isf Expert presets (which have H Sharpness and V Sharpness controls) and the technicolor preset. I've also tested with SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision. In all picture modes, it functions exactly the same way: Edge Enhancer OFF disables the Sharpness control, Edge Enhancer ON enables the Sharpness control.

If you want to bypass artificial sharpening, keep Edge Enhancer OFF.
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post #1357 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by decibels View Post
Hey D-nice, sent you a PM, would like to book something with you in April
got it. I’ll reply via email.
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post #1358 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
One of you mofos needs to come to north Florida and calibrate my set or im going to have to buy calibration equipment and figure it out myself...problem is my wife might kill me if i buy expensive calibration equipment but such is life. 3d lut calibration ftw?

Geek squad are only calibrators in my area...and will NEVER touch my set lol.
North Florida as in Jacksonville?
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post #1359 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
One of you mofos needs to come to north Florida and calibrate my set or im going to have to buy calibration equipment and figure it out myself...problem is my wife might kill me if i buy expensive calibration equipment but such is life. 3d lut calibration ftw?

Geek squad are only calibrators in my area...and will NEVER touch my set lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
North Florida as in Jacksonville?
Hi, if you want to perform the 3D LUT for SDR there 2 options:

1) You can hire a professional calibrator which is doing 3D LUT's; like D-Nice which has LightSpace HTP for 3D LUT's (and CalMAN Ultimate for manual cal of HDR10/DV) and he is calibrating eeColor 3D LUT Box also. (eeColor is the lower cost 3D LUT solution for SDR in global market, with the higher 3D LUT table size, 65-Point Cube)

2) Get your own hardware and learn from reading/practicing how to perform calibration, for instument, the lowest $$$ solutions is to get the X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM (manufactured from January 2017 or later, which is certified up to 2000nits, to be future-proof for any display change in the future), eeColor is the lower cost 3D LUT Box, DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS (since it's free open source) is the lower cost software solution for 3D LUT generation for eeColor (from paid solutions it's the CalMAN Enthousiast and LightSpace HTL) and for patch generation you will need a ChromeCast Stick which DisplayCAL will control to generate he thousand color patches. (While Chromecast is not bit-perfect pattern generation solution, it's been written an offset code DisplayCAL is using to correct and minimize the digital errors). There other 3D LUT hardware solutions from Lumagen (with smaller 3D LUT cube size) also but they require a paid software to work (CalMAN Enthousiast, LightSpace HTL or ChromaPure Standard with Advanced Auto-calibrate Add-on).

If you decide for the 1st solution, the advantages are that higher grade meters will be used and deep experience about how to pre-calibrate the panel for 3D LUT and generally for HDR10/DV calibration (from D-Nice) will provide you better final visual results, your TV will be ready to perform reference instantly after the calibrator visit. AFIK D-Nice has equiped to his home LG/Sony OLED's with eeColor 3D LUT Box already for reference level SDR playback.

If you decide the 2nd solution, it will require some time to spend some weeks/month, for practicing, reading, testing, learning and be improved from initial errors all new users have, but after some time you will be ready to do your own manual cal and 3D LUT also. For HDR10 you can get Ryan's patterns for HDR10 or a device like HD Fury to trigger HDR10 mode and for DV you will need CalMAN Enthousiast (HD Fury Integral is supported with current version) and a bit-perfect notebook/ PC HDMI output for DV calibration. You will lost a lot of your free time until to learn about calibration, but it will be a new hobby for you, so you will be able to calibrate other TV's you have or your friends TV's etc.... who don't know that stuff, but you will loose a lot of time compared to the 1st solution, where you have plenty of time to watch movies than from measuring/testing.
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post #1360 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
Ted, thanks. I know this question is a bit out of the calibration thread but would it be safe to assume the built in netflix, prime, and youtube app on the lg operates at data levels or do they adjust it to video levels during playback? Is chromecast ultra the same? Appletv4k? I know bluray is at video levels but now im curious about streaming devices.
Hi, all the movies are video-Levels, any internal player can play them like they are, or expand them to PC Levels, it's unknown what any internal TV player is doing, when you are using external player with analyser (connect analyser between source-display) you can see what is happening but with internal TV player you can't. But with such so popular services like netflix/prime etc., sure there is no problem.

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post #1361 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MackGuyver View Post
I've been able to pretty much nail the white balance in all modes other than DV so far (can't get the HDFury Integral to work at all!).

Doing the CMS calibration, I'm able to get every color dialed in really well, except red. No matter how I tweak it, it won't line up for me.
Hi, you will need a bit-perfect 1080p60 RGB HDMI Output combined with HD Fury Integral (will send the display specific infoframe), to enable DV mode of your LG. Usually with Intel or NVidia chipsets with proper configuration it can be pit-perfect the output.

Remove any ICC from Windows Color Manager and reset your VCGT, check your output settings, to disable any enhancement which can alter the signal output etc.

If you have used the bypass of Client 3 is not exact the same a true unity, it's using the default Windows API/Reset process for the graphics card VCGT doesn't load a true Null LUT, as shown here:



Use the X-Rite calibration tester where you can manually reset the VCGT after you have pressed bypass from Client 3.

Before you will do this, if you press Refresh and then Rest, you will see the change to the data as the above picture is showing.

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post #1362 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 06:34 AM
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Re: patch generators. With lots of options to mirror a laptop wirelessly or cast PC screen to display, what are the chances that the mirrored patches are "reference" quality? I'd guess that the internal PC processing is bypassed, but that's only a guess.

Thanks!

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post #1363 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 07:01 AM
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Me too

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
North Florida as in Jacksonville?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
One of you mofos needs to come to north Florida and calibrate my set or im going to have to buy calibration equipment and figure it out myself...problem is my wife might kill me if i buy expensive calibration equipment but such is life. 3d lut calibration ftw?

Geek squad are only calibrators in my area...and will NEVER touch my set lol.
I would also be interested should the price be reasonable---I'm in NW Florida not near any major population center so its a bit of an issue.

Larry
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post #1364 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 07:07 AM
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My B7A has a left-hand-side vertical yellow band. On an all white screen I can see vertical bands of red then blue (unless the blue is a trick of the eye). These bands are very faint. As far as I read, the yellow band is common. (even if I took the TV back to BB, who knows if the replacement set would be better or worse).

Two questions.

Does a calibration have any impact on these bands? I really doubt it.

I got my B7A about the first of December and it probably has 200 hours on it - will these bands go away over time?

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post #1365 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by phakur View Post
I would also be interested should the price be reasonable---I'm in NW Florida not near any major population center so its a bit of an issue.

Larry
It’s possible. I just need to know where you are. Please send me a PM.
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post #1366 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
got it. I’ll reply via email.
Thank you!!

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post #1367 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 12:51 PM
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I cant like threads on my phone but thank you to Ted, dnice, and everyone else. Sent dnice a pm
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post #1368 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinSartori View Post
Hey everyone,

I posted this over on 2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk), but that's a pretty long thread and I thought it couldn't hurt to cross-post it here, since there seems to be some confusion about Edge Enhancer.

From my testing, all that Edge Enhancer seems to do is enable or disable the Sharpness setting. If you set it to OFF, then Sharpness control is bypassed and has no effect. If you set it to ON, then the picture will show the effect of however Sharpness is set.

You can test this yourself: Set Sharpness to 0 and then switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF and you'll see no change to the picture. Next, max out Sharpness to 50. Now switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF. You'll see a normal unsharpened image with OFF and ugly sharpening with ON.

I've tested with both isf Expert presets (which have H Sharpness and V Sharpness controls) and the technicolor preset. I've also tested with SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision. In all picture modes, it functions exactly the same way: Edge Enhancer OFF disables the Sharpness control, Edge Enhancer ON enables the Sharpness control.

If you want to bypass artificial sharpening, keep Edge Enhancer OFF.
Curious what you guys think about this.
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post #1369 of 3197 Old 12-17-2017, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous21 View Post
Curious what you guys think about this.


Makes since because I normally turn sharpness all the way down on the 6 and 7 series and have never seen a bit of difference with the edge enhancer (see my earlier posts).


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post #1370 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisda1 View Post
Re: patch generators. With lots of options to mirror a laptop wirelessly or cast PC screen to display, what are the chances that the mirrored patches are "reference" quality? I'd guess that the internal PC processing is bypassed, but that's only a guess.

Thanks!
Hi, to be sure about your patch generation, Amazon FireTV/Stick is better option, it can work with CalMAN MobileForge or using LightSpace Connect.

FireTV/Stick outputs RGB signal and it's looking your display's EDID to decide what levels to display; 16-235 or 0-255. (New Fire HDR can output YCbCr also, as user shoman94 posted.)

Because the end user don't know what it will happen with each TV model, CalMAN has one setting to enable/disable expanding Video to PC Levels (for some displays this need to be enabled, for others it need to be disabled) while LightSpace has option to set patch scale 0-255 or 16-235.

To find out which setting is correct for your current display it to compare a grayscale run from your BD-Player or Media Player you use to playback movies and compare the grayscale readings you get from this option enabled/disabled; see your peak black level/ peak white readings also to have agreement.

You can see there how off your measurements can be with wrong settings: http://www.spectracal.com/forum/view...&t=5869#p39542

Also before starting any calibration you have to use a calibration disk to check/set your contrast/brightness/sharpness and check color clipping also.

FireStick when it's been used to generate patterns for video levels is compressing 0-255 to 16-235, so it can generate any RGB Triplet combination between 16-235 range, not 0-15 or 236-254.

All below 16 steps (1-15 are becoming 16 and the all above 235 (236-254) steps are becoming 235, so it's impossible to set contrast and not able to check if you have correctly setup your black level without lifting/clipping your black or near black.

About Contrast is a problem also, since you can't see if you have above reference white clipping or if the above reference white levels have neutral shade and not pink-ish, green-ish etc..

You will still need a calibration disk to set or check Contrast/Brightness in a setup that you will use later FireTV/FireStick as a pattern generator.

If your actual player is shifting the colors to it's output due to it's internal video processing or colorspace conversion and you can't match the measurements you have with any external patch generation then you have to calibrate with patterns with a calibration disk from your player, to correct/count these errors the player is introducing to your calibration adjustments decisions.

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post #1371 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 05:00 AM
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Hey guys,

I just posted a tip to try it out, which can improve your HDR10 calibration here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55338690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MackGuyver View Post
I've been able to pretty much nail the white balance in all modes other than DV so far (can't get the HDFury Integral to work at all!).

Doing the CMS calibration, I'm able to get every color dialed in really well, except red. No matter how I tweak it, it won't line up for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Are you using CalMAN? Send me a private message with your email address and I will help you out with the Dolby Vision.
Tyler, you can share here some tips, other CalMAN 5 users also may find them useful, since CalMAN only (currently) can calibrate DV mode, it will not be a secret tip which can be used by other software users.
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post #1373 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinSartori View Post
Hey everyone,

I posted this over on 2017 LG C7-B7 Owners' Thread (No Price Talk), but that's a pretty long thread and I thought it couldn't hurt to cross-post it here, since there seems to be some confusion about Edge Enhancer.

From my testing, all that Edge Enhancer seems to do is enable or disable the Sharpness setting. If you set it to OFF, then Sharpness control is bypassed and has no effect. If you set it to ON, then the picture will show the effect of however Sharpness is set.

You can test this yourself: Set Sharpness to 0 and then switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF and you'll see no change to the picture. Next, max out Sharpness to 50. Now switch back and forth between Edge Enhancer ON/OFF. You'll see a normal unsharpened image with OFF and ugly sharpening with ON.

I've tested with both isf Expert presets (which have H Sharpness and V Sharpness controls) and the technicolor preset. I've also tested with SDR, HDR10, and Dolby Vision. In all picture modes, it functions exactly the same way: Edge Enhancer OFF disables the Sharpness control, Edge Enhancer ON enables the Sharpness control.

If you want to bypass artificial sharpening, keep Edge Enhancer OFF.
Actually sharpening a picture is something that applies to CRT televisions, focusing the beam more. Sharpness on pixel based TV's is misnamed and actually is "edge enhancement" so it makes sense that the edge enhancement control enables/disables the sharpness control. http://forums.solidsignal.com/conten...rpness-control
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post #1374 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, you will need a bit-perfect 1080p60 RGB HDMI Output combined with HD Fury Integral (will send the display specific infoframe), to enable DV mode of your LG. Usually with Intel or NVidia chipsets with proper configuration it can be pit-perfect the output.

Remove any ICC from Windows Color Manager and reset your VCGT, check your output settings, to disable any enhancement which can alter the signal output etc.

If you have used the bypass of Client 3 is not exact the same a true unity, it's using the default Windows API/Reset process for the graphics card VCGT doesn't load a true Null LUT, as shown here:



Use the X-Rite calibration tester where you can manually reset the VCGT after you have pressed bypass from Client 3.

Before you will do this, if you press Refresh and then Rest, you will see the change to the data as the above picture is showing.
Ted, I'm just catching up on my posts, and I'd like to thank you again for your help and advice. I've got a Dell Precision mobile workstation with both Intel HD graphics (from an eight-core Extreme CPU) and a discrete Nvidia Quadro K5000M GPU, but will need to disable all of my ICC settings. Perhaps that's what's causing my issues with the Integral. Will give it a try again tonight and let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks,
Ian
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post #1375 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 01:52 PM
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Anyone in central Texas area do calibrations? I had a guy do my c7who wasn’t exactly a calibrator by trade but knew how to do it. Only thing was he wasn’t sure how to do HDR content. So I’m looking for someone in central Texas that can do hdr calibration.

I’m live in Ft. Hood, Texas.
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post #1376 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Eaton View Post
Anyone in central Texas area do calibrations? I had a guy do my c7who wasn’t exactly a calibrator by trade but knew how to do it. Only thing was he wasn’t sure how to do HDR content. So I’m looking for someone in central Texas that can do hdr calibration.

I’m live in Ft. Hood, Texas.
Try this out. Maybe it will help you find someone.

http://www.thx.com/installer-finder/

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post #1377 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 05:52 PM
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I think d-nice recommended using extended color gamut instead of auto due to getting more details in darker scenes. Did you also recommend lowering color to 46 when using extended? I think this was just for sdr and for people without calibration equipment but could be wrong.

Im shocked people in the owners thread all use Auto color gamut like it's gospel, extended seems far better if you dont have calibration gear (and maybe better there as well, i dont know).

Here's why: originally was using sonoftumbles settings minus his cms adjustments for sdr. My set has red bias on auto and extended color gamut. Tumbles settings did help with two things (he uses auto gamut), on his 20 point, it helped remove red bias on highs and added color detail to low luminance scenes.

I decided to reset to default technicolor settings with auto gamut to see how it compared to Tumbles panel specific adjustments (no image processing, 2.2 gamma) and based on what the pros said, my colors were now more accurate but i again noticed red bias on high and even worse, lost details in darker scenes. When i switched to extended gamut, those darker color details came back (lowered color to 46)-- thank you d-nice. I then used jreefs recommendation on eye balling the 2 point high and went -2 red and -1 blue and red bias is virtually eliminated in my eyes. I now have more accurate colors and those two issues fixed...mostly using default settings but extended gamut and minor 2 point adjustment.

Still hoping to get my set professionally calibrated but this seems good for now. Using brightness at 51, 0 sharpness, edge enhancement on. Thoughts overall? Thank you.
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post #1378 of 3197 Old 12-18-2017, 06:55 PM
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After a professional calibration, is there any chance that firmware updates may change something rendering the calibration inaccurate?
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post #1379 of 3197 Old 12-19-2017, 09:29 AM
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My ongoing struggles to getting my HDFury Integral to work with Calman are progressing. At least now I'm getting the wrong screen (see crappy photo showing lack of DV metadata) that Calman shows in their software...which means I'm getting closer...

I'll try to document the process once I figure it out.

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post #1380 of 3197 Old 12-19-2017, 10:50 AM
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Thanks for the link. Only 4 out of the 7 had valid email addresses.

If i were to go the route of learning how to calibrate what would be the recommended equipment and literature. I have been going through the forums so I’m picking up on things here and there. I have a basic understanding on it, but very basic.

I would prefer for a professional to do it though, i just live in an area where there are no professionals.
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