Does anyone have an alternate white point for 2016 LG OLEDs? - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 318 Old 08-26-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Look at my signature for your answer With those two items I've built many relationships with people in multiple industries.
Sorry, signatures don't show up on Tapatalk. I'll get on my laptop and take a gander.

Thanks.

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post #182 of 318 Old 08-28-2017, 02:25 AM
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Pilots capable of sentient thought are less propable of crashing a plane compared to instrument only pilots.
On the other hand, other pilots, like JFK Jr., who relied on their subjective judgments while ignoring instruments, flew their plane straight into the ocean. I'll reserve judgment on this until I can do some formal testing.

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post #183 of 318 Old 08-28-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
On the other hand, other pilots, like JFK Jr., who relied on their subjective judgments while ignoring instruments, flew their plane straight into the ocean. I'll reserve judgment on this until I can do some formal testing.
"Men lie, women lie, the numbers don't". More crashes are caused by instrument only pilots

I've done alternative whitepoint research for over a year now from a CS2000a down to the i1pro. Feel free to share your findings... especially with the Kuro you have on hand. As a tip, I recommend you conduct your testing with a max light output of 20 foot lamberts as to minimize pupil constriction and your reference be set exactly to x 0.3127 y 0.3290. Of course these tests also should be done in a pitch black room.
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post #184 of 318 Old 08-28-2017, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Too bad the two of you can't get together to do this.
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post #185 of 318 Old 09-03-2017, 02:41 AM
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A Test for Instrument Metameric Failure

I spent several hours setting up and then conducting this test, the results of which seemed fairly definitive for me. You can read about it on my web site.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear-MetamericFailure.asp

In summary, I could not repeat instrument metameric failure between a 2016 LG white OLED and a CCFL and LED LCD. I also saw no meaningful difference in white point measurements between the CR-300 and the JETI 1211, though I did see a difference in luminance measurements, which I attribute to the JETI's calibration in need of being redone.
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post #186 of 318 Old 09-03-2017, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I spent several hours setting up and then conducting this test, the results of which seemed fairly definitive for me. You can read about it on my web site.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear.asp

In summary, I could not repeat instrument metameric failure between a 2016 LG white OLED and a CCFL and LED LCD. I also saw no meaningful difference in white point measurements between the CR-300 and the JETI 1211, though I did see a difference in luminance measurements, which I attribute to the JETI's calibration in need of being redone.
Nice write up Tom. I can repeat your results with those three models (I know from the engineering perspective why they would match). However, I'm curious as to why you choose to exclude the 5020 you have on hand. Because it is obsolete? So is the CCFL so that does not make sense.... not to mention all of the content that was actually mastered with plasma as the mastering display.
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post #187 of 318 Old 09-03-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
Nice write up Tom. I can repeat your results with those three models (I know from the engineering perspective why they would match). However, I'm curious as to why you choose to exclude the 5020 you have on hand. Because it is obsolete? So is the CCFL so that does not make sense.... not to mention all of the content that was actually mastered with plasma as the mastering display.
DeWayne, I don't have the 5020 anymore. I gave it to a friend when I got the OLED. If I still had it I probably wouldn't have used it in the test in any case. The most labor intensive part of the test was schlepping the two LCDs up from downstairs where I have my lab to the living room where I keep the OLED. The Pioneer plasma would just have been too heavy for this.

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post #188 of 318 Old 09-03-2017, 10:32 AM
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Honestly this thread has been awesome for an amateur like myself.

While I don't have a screen I can reliably match white points with next to my OLED, I am using D-Nice's 2016 white point and, to my eyes, it looks better than when I was calibrating to standard D65.

While my subjective assessment carries no weight in the realm of how technical you guys get with your testing and methods, at the end of the day it has helped my visual experience for the better.

For example, me and my fiancée watch Harry Potter almost monthly as background movies during school work and such so I've gotten to know the visual look of each movie very in depth. Last night was the first time watching with the new white point calibration I have been using and it just looked better in every way. Better contrast, better pop to the picture, more natural looking.

To each their own of course.

Now I just wish there was an alternate point to try for HDR

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post #189 of 318 Old 09-14-2017, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I spent several hours setting up and then conducting this test, the results of which seemed fairly definitive for me. You can read about it on my web site.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear.asp

In summary, I could not repeat instrument metameric failure between a 2016 LG white OLED and a CCFL and LED LCD. I also saw no meaningful difference in white point measurements between the CR-300 and the JETI 1211, though I did see a difference in luminance measurements, which I attribute to the JETI's calibration in need of being redone.
Could this just mean that the CR300 and jeti 1211 have the same spectral resolution so they produce the same results where when you use other spectrotometers (namely my CR250 and D-Nice's PR670) then differences in narrow primary displays emerge?
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post #190 of 318 Old 09-14-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Could this just mean that the CR300 and jeti 1211 have the same spectral resolution so they produce the same results where when you use other spectrotometers (namely my CR250 and D-Nice's PR670) then differences in narrow primary displays emerge?
The CR-300 has double the spectral resolution of the JETI, 2nm vs 4.5 nm.
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post #191 of 318 Old 10-16-2017, 02:20 PM
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I just wanted to leave here that I recently calibrated my 2017 LG C7 to D65 using HCRF and already noted in the other thread that the white looked pretty warm to me. I then tried again using the HCRF mode "non-refresh window" instead of OLED for my x-rite i1. That already showed too less blue (which I before had to reduce).

Now, with the proposed white point of D-Nice, I got a much more pleasing result for pure white. If I put my iPad Pro to max brightness and hold it against a HDR 100% white pattern in 10% window, I get a much closer result while with D65 the TV looks much too warm. I see that iPad is no good reference, but the new white point is much more pleasing to my eye. (I used it for HDR and SDR calibration.)

I'd like to thank D-Nice and everyone involved for the awesome insight they post here on the forum.

Also, I'd like to note that with ISF Dark Mode and Warm2, I only had to change green to -4 and receive an avg of 0.45 dE on gray scale (not having to change much seems like a good sign to me). In HDR Game mode, I went from W50 (the max) to W45 and again received excellent gray scale results. For Cinema in HDR, Warm2 I had to change green to -11 and red to -4. Still, I got excellent gray scale results.
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post #192 of 318 Old 10-17-2017, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Could this just mean that the CR300 and jeti 1211 have the same spectral resolution so they produce the same results where when you use other spectrotometers (namely my CR250 and D-Nice's PR670) then differences in narrow primary displays emerge?
The PR670 is a 8 nm (5 nm optional) device...the CR250 is a 4.5 nm device.

Just my $.02
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post #193 of 318 Old 10-17-2017, 06:21 PM
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The PR670 is a 8 nm (5 nm optional) device...the CR250 is a 4.5 nm device.

Just my $.02
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I have the 5nm bandwidth PR670. Last time I spoke to reps at Jadak, they round up their bandwidth specs so the CR250 is the equivalent of a 5nm PR670 just like the CR300 is the equivalent of the PR740/745. Also, resolution is more important than bandwidth, right?
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post #194 of 318 Old 10-19-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
I have the 5nm bandwidth PR670. Last time I spoke to reps at Jadak, they round up their bandwidth specs so the CR250 is the equivalent of a 5nm PR670 just like the CR300 is the equivalent of the PR740/745. Also, resolution is more important than bandwidth, right?
I must correct my error...the CR250 has a 4nm Bandwidth and a Spectral Resolution of 1.6 nm / pixel
The PR-670 has an optional 5nm Bandwidth with a Spectral Resolution <2.0 nm / pixel

Info is direct from both websites.

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post #195 of 318 Old 11-07-2017, 08:57 AM
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I calibrated my OLED55B6P to the alternate white point discussed in this thread (x: .3073 y: .3214, D70), using HCFR and a i1Display Pro.
While it's better than the standard D65 white point, which was way too red for me, I think now it's a little too bluish instead.
I used 100% patterns which helped, but it's still a little too bluish for me.

It's not that I don't like the D65 whitepoint, it's looking fine on my PRO-101FD plasma (a little too green sometimes maybe), but on the B6P it's too red for my liking.

Something around D68 seem to be more inline for what I like... how would one calculate the x/y parameters for that?
I found a online x/y calculator, but it doesn't seem to match the x/y parameters in this thread.

So... how would one go about getting the x/y parameters for, say around a D68 white point?
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post #196 of 318 Old 11-07-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by nusihb View Post
I calibrated my OLED55B6P to the alternate white point discussed in this thread (x: .3073 y: .3214, D70), using HCFR and a i1Display Pro.
While it's better than the standard D65 white point, which was way too red for me, I think now it's a little too bluish instead.
I used 100% patterns which helped, but it's still a little too bluish for me.

It's not that I don't like the D65 whitepoint, it's looking fine on my PRO-101FD plasma (a little too green sometimes maybe), but on the B6P it's too red for my liking.

Something around D68 seem to be more inline for what I like... how would one calculate the x/y parameters for that?
I found a online x/y calculator, but it doesn't seem to match the x/y parameters in this thread.

So... how would one go about getting the x/y parameters for, say around a D68 white point?
You could try x=0.3083 y=0.3252 thats inbetween d65 and d-nice wp,it will give you ~6780K, i use that on my screen for sdr.
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post #197 of 318 Old 11-07-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nusihb View Post
I calibrated my OLED55B6P to the alternate white point discussed in this thread (x: .3073 y: .3214, D70), using HCFR and a i1Display Pro.
While it's better than the standard D65 white point, which was way too red for me, I think now it's a little too bluish instead.
I used 100% patterns which helped, but it's still a little too bluish for me.

It's not that I don't like the D65 whitepoint, it's looking fine on my PRO-101FD plasma (a little too green sometimes maybe), but on the B6P it's too red for my liking.

Something around D68 seem to be more inline for what I like... how would one calculate the x/y parameters for that?
I found a online x/y calculator, but it doesn't seem to match the x/y parameters in this thread.

So... how would one go about getting the x/y parameters for, say around a D68 white point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
You could try x=0.3083 y=0.3252 thats inbetween d65 and d-nice wp,it will give you ~6780K, i use that on my screen for sdr.
Thanks, I'll try that.
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post #198 of 318 Old 11-17-2017, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
You could try x=0.3083 y=0.3252 thats inbetween d65 and d-nice wp,it will give you ~6780K, i use that on my screen for sdr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nusihb View Post
Thanks, I'll try that.
So I finally got around to calibrate to this white point (6780K), and it's a nice compromise between 'too blue' and 'too red' - thanks for the info!

Another thing that I have not been able to figure out:
How do I calibrate gamma w/o using the luminance setting under 20-point calibration on the 55B6P?
I see at rtings.com they manged to calibrate gamma on a 55B7P w/o touching the luminance at all (it seems they did that on the B6P as well).
Do they set gamma through the service menu? Or by just manipulate the green 'channel'?
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post #199 of 318 Old 11-17-2017, 10:03 PM
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You need to use the R-G-B controls + or - separatly,luminance moves all 3 of them in one click,moving one click each of R-G-B is the same (almost) its an balancing act between hitting perfect gamma/rgb balance,fun part is the trial/error

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post #200 of 318 Old 01-13-2018, 12:59 AM
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Hello all,

I have just read the first five pages of this thread as I am trying to calibrate my Sony A1 but I will be honest I am very new to calibration & most of this is way over my head.

I am using an i1Pro to profile my i1D3 now I read that I should be very careful doing this as I could lead to inaccurate results. @D-Nice posted you should do the following:

Set white to perfect d65 with the i1pro..... measure WRGB...... profile the d3..... validate the profile..... take note of the differences in the WRGB d3 measurements post profile and make those your targets instead of the standard targets.

Do I need to do this or can I just use the custom white point provided in this thread for my TV?

If anyone can clarify if this is what I need to do to set a custom white point before I start calibrating.

1. Create a custom colourspace target in CalMAN with the white point x:0.3090 y:0.3290 like this:





2. Check that custom colorspace targets are selected before starting calibration.

I am confused in regard to what window size I should be using, I read that I should use 50% patterns for 40fL. I will be targeting 30fL so should I use a 40% pattern or does this not apply to the Sony A1?

From what I gather the reason for using different size windows is to let the ABL kick in when calibrating as it effects colours when it is in operation is this still correct for the A1?

Also I know @BigCoolJesus already asked this but should I also edit the WP with the same x, y values for HDR Rec. 2020 gamut target?

@ConnecTEDDD said that this will require additional check from @D-Nice I have not found this info yet, was it posted?

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post #201 of 318 Old 01-13-2018, 04:01 AM
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After i did profiling in non contact mode I1pro2/K-10 and starting to use a bigger fov (approx 8”) with my K-10 im actually back to D65,gone is the yellowish whites on my B6

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post #202 of 318 Old 01-13-2018, 06:06 AM
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After a little more reading I think I have anwsered some of my own questions. I understand now why I need to set custom colorspace targets when using my i1Pro to profile my i1D3.

Are these steps correct for using the alternative white point & setting the meter up correctly.

1. Set white point (D65 or alternative white point) perfectly with the i1Pro using 100% white pattern & 18% window

2. Measure W,R,G,B using 100% patterns & 18% window with the i1Pro taking note of the coordinates


3. Profile the i1D3 using the i1Pro as the reference meter

4. With the profile active measure W,R,G,B with the i1D3 & take note of the coordinates

5. Using the CalMan Colorspace editor input the coordinates you just noted down when measuring with the i1D3 in the “Reference white” & “chromaticity coordinates” sections

6. Proceed with calibration as normal with the custom colorspace targets & meter profile active.


Is this correct?

Still unsure on what size window I should be using thou
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post #203 of 318 Old 01-15-2018, 09:11 AM
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Also I know @BigCoolJesus already asked this but should I also edit the WP with the same x, y values for HDR Rec. 2020 gamut target?

@ConnecTEDDD said that this will require additional check from @D-Nice I have not found this info yet, was it posted?
Hi Adam, the perceptual matching D-Nice performed was for SDR mode. To have custom coordinates for HDR, someone has to perform a similar test using a post-production LED (like Dolby Pulsar) or Sony BMV-X300 (RGB OLED) and post some custom coordinates also.
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post #204 of 318 Old 01-15-2018, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
After a little more reading I think I have anwsered some of my own questions. I understand now why I need to set custom colorspace targets when using my i1Pro to profile my i1D3.

Are these steps correct for using the alternative white point & setting the meter up correctly.

1. Set white point (D65 or alternative white point) perfectly with the i1Pro using 100% white pattern & 18% window

2. Measure W,R,G,B using 100% patterns & 18% window with the i1Pro taking note of the coordinates


3. Profile the i1D3 using the i1Pro as the reference meter

4. With the profile active measure W,R,G,B with the i1D3 & take note of the coordinates

5. Using the CalMan Colorspace editor input the coordinates you just noted down when measuring with the i1D3 in the “Reference white” & “chromaticity coordinates” sections

6. Proceed with calibration as normal with the custom colorspace targets & meter profile active.


Is this correct?

Still unsure on what size window I should be using thou
1) Try smaller windows, we don't need any form of ABL to be enabled when you take measurement, because it will have impact to meter profile creation and verification.

5) Select the REC.709 colorspace and based to that...then click copy colorspace (not create a new), after that change the xy of White, no need to change anything else, the Y of Primary Colors and xyY of Primary Color will be recalculated automaticaly based to your custom xy white point, then save that colorspace.
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post #205 of 318 Old 03-08-2018, 05:57 PM
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Bump on this thread.....

After exploring YouTube today I found two videos that should allow people to get an idea of what calibrating both an OLED and plasma to x0.3127 y0.3290 looks like side by side with real content. On the left is a B7A and to the right is a KRP-500M. I highly recommend you view these videos on calibrated sets if at all possible. Before anyone says anything, if you view these videos on a calibrated set, no a Kuro does not look that green in person. In fact, it looks like the B7A on the left while WRGB OLEDs have more red/ruddy, appearance. The videos simply give you an idea of the differences and why an alternative white point should be used. All the credit goes to Patrik Gårdewall for the videos....



Video 1:

Video 2:
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post #206 of 318 Old 03-08-2018, 06:30 PM
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Bump on this thread.....

After exploring YouTube today I found two videos that should allow people to get an idea of what calibrating both an OLED and plasma to x0.3127 y0.3290 looks like side by side with real content.
You changed the settings for the 2017 LG OLED? I've been using your settings for the A1E and have been happy with the results.

Sony 65A1E
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post #207 of 318 Old 03-08-2018, 07:06 PM
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You changed the settings for the 2017 LG OLED? I've been using your settings for the A1E and have been happy with the results.
I don’t understand your question. If you are asking if I use an alternative white point for 2017 LG OLEDs, yes I do.
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post #208 of 318 Old 03-08-2018, 07:19 PM
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Here are offset I've created for 2016 LGs, 2017 LGs and the 2017 Sony A1E

2016 LGs: x:0.3039 y:0.3214

2017 LGs: x:0.3076 y:0.3261

2017 Sony A1E: x:0.3090 y:0.3290
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Bump on this thread.....

After exploring YouTube today I found two videos that should allow people to get an idea of what calibrating both an OLED and plasma to x0.3127 y0.3290 looks like side by side with real content.
Was talking about the x,y values from earlier in the thread, different from what you just posted.

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post #209 of 318 Old 03-08-2018, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Egan View Post
Was talking about the x,y values from earlier in the thread, different from what you just posted.
x0.3127 y0.3290 is Standard D65
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post #210 of 318 Old 03-13-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
After exploring YouTube today I found two videos that should allow people to get an idea of what calibrating both an OLED and plasma to x0.3127 y0.3290 looks like side by side with real content. On the left is a B7A and to the right is a KRP-500M. I highly recommend you view these videos on calibrated sets if at all possible. Before anyone says anything, if you view these videos on a calibrated set, no a Kuro does not look that green in person. In fact, it looks like the B7A on the left while WRGB OLEDs have more red/ruddy, appearance. The videos simply give you an idea of the differences and why an alternative white point should be used. All the credit goes to Patrik Gårdewall for the videos....
Hi D-Nice,

I know Patrik, he told me that on the left is the 500M and on the right is the B7.

He is not a member here but he asked me to post that text below about these videos:

''shooting video on the OLED's also gets wrong white balance. Cameras also have metameric issues, so white balance looks different when seeing them compared to the video.

KURO's don't have that problem. I guess its the diffuse cones on the spd on the OLED's that does it. Colors are not distinct.

About White Point, even it you visually match white on the B7 it will still show wrong colors form time to time, also the tone in the picture is slight colder. I guess that's an effect of the high Blue energy on these OLED's.

Its easy to see the better fleshtones on the 500M, just look at the girls face at 3:24. much more natural on the 500M
''
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