C6 HDR2000 colorimeter from SpectraCal - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, this issue has been resolved with CalMAN 2017 R2 5.8.2a Build: 85 (Official Release: December 18, 2017), are you using that version?

Resolved Issues

Resolved issue that would cause CalMAN to not properly display the C6 HDR2000 label on the meter tab with some installers.
Yes. I am on that exact build.

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post #62 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Yes. I am on that exact build.

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Ok, so it's not resolved completely, contact SpectraCAL to report it.

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post #63 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Ok, so it's not resolved completely, contact SpectraCAL to report it.
Thanks bud

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post #64 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Thanks bud

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Can you please send your Meter serial number to support(@)SpectraCal.com

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post #65 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 05:29 PM
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Can you please send your Meter serial number to support(@)SpectraCal.com
Done

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post #66 of 101 Old 01-05-2018, 06:04 PM
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I restarted my laptop and ran calman and now it's reporting as a C6 HDR2000. All good.

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post #67 of 101 Old 10-30-2018, 08:03 AM
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Appears to have not come with a braided cable anymore. Might have not done the upgrade if I would have known that. The light diffuser now sort of slides back to click in so it's a little more secure so thats a improvement. Oh well. We can get started on my friends LG OLEDs now.



Is there anyway to tell what version of the C6 I have? I purchased a "used" C6 off eBay that was stated as Spectracal C6, but when I received it, it was clearly unused and looks exactly the same as the picture posted above. Unbraided cable, and the diffuser that requires a "click" to close.


Also, while calibrating my Z9D, it was reading luminance levels of 1600 nits, so I'm now wondering if I actually purchased the C6 HDR 2000 version.


thanks for any tips!
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post #68 of 101 Old 10-30-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haans249 View Post
Is there anyway to tell what version of the C6 I have? I purchased a "used" C6 off eBay that was stated as Spectracal C6, but when I received it, it was clearly unused and looks exactly the same as the picture posted above. Unbraided cable, and the diffuser that requires a "click" to close.


Also, while calibrating my Z9D, it was reading luminance levels of 1600 nits, so I'm now wondering if I actually purchased the C6 HDR 2000 version.


thanks for any tips!
Calman will list it as an HDR2000. Also the C6 is basically just a licensed i1 Display pro. The 2017 i1 or later are rated to be accurate up to 2000nits. It can still report higher readings and varies from unit to unit, but there is no guaranty it will be accurate above the rating. The date and model are also listed on the weight. It would be labeled as HDR2000 if it is one.
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post #69 of 101 Old 10-30-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haans249 View Post
Is there anyway to tell what version of the C6 I have? I purchased a "used" C6 off eBay that was stated as Spectracal C6, but when I received it, it was clearly unused and looks exactly the same as the picture posted above. Unbraided cable, and the diffuser that requires a "click" to close.

Also, while calibrating my Z9D, it was reading luminance levels of 1600 nits, so I'm now wondering if I actually purchased the C6 HDR 2000 version.

thanks for any tips!
Hi,

You can see it looking the sticker attached to the counterweight of your meter.



Custom Branded X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM versions like SpectraCAL's C6, C6-HDR, or C6-HDR2000 instruments serial number have the following format:

SP-yy.r-02.xxxxxx.mm

(SP = SpectraCAL version, yy = short year manufactured, r-02 = hardware revision (A or B) - firmware version (02), xxxxxx = incremental number, mm = month manufactured.

If you see yy = 17, means that its C6HDR2000.

The 2000nits capability is something verified from X-Rite, just SpectraCAL is testing C6HDR2000 meter using a monitor with a peak output between 100-150 nits and provide a certification report paper (you can see the nits level its been performed that test to that paper, and the date).
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post #70 of 101 Old 10-30-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi,

You can see it looking the sticker attached to the counterweight of your meter.



Custom Branded X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM versions like SpectraCAL's C6, C6-HDR, or C6-HDR2000 instruments serial number have the following format:

SP-yy.r-02.xxxxxx.mm

(SP = SpectraCAL version, yy = short year manufactured, r-02 = hardware revision (A or B) - firmware version (02), xxxxxx = incremental number, mm = month manufactured.

If you see yy = 17, means that its C6HDR2000.

The 2000nits capability is something verified from X-Rite, just SpectraCAL is testing C6HDR2000 meter using a monitor with a peak output between 100-150 nits and provide a certification report paper (you can see the nits level its been performed that test to that paper, and the date).
Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! That is very helpful. My weight label has the manufacture date of 2017 rev B. The serial yy = 17, so looks like I got the C6HDR2000 for basically less than $200 brand new.....
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post #71 of 101 Old 05-26-2019, 09:01 PM
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Hi all,

I'm thinking of purchasing this for an AutoCal (and I'm a newbie, so patience is appreciated) and have a few questions before I make the jump:

1.) I watched a how-to video and have seen some discussion of "meter profiling" where you compare the meter with a spectrophotometers to get more accuracy (although most of what I've seen have been on cheaper models than this). Is this necessary or advisable with this model? I was hoping this was the only equipment I'd need.

2.) How long is it the NIST certification for and how often would it need sent in for recalibration? (I'd only plan to check display calibration every year or two.) Is there a lot of drift for these?

3.) Is there any preference on whether it's better to tripod mount vs. hang over the front of the screen? (The former would likely be easier for me).

Thanks for any help!
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post #72 of 101 Old 05-26-2019, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
Hi all,



I'm thinking of purchasing this for an AutoCal (and I'm a newbie, so patience is appreciated) and have a few questions before I make the jump:



1.) I watched a how-to video and have seen some discussion of "meter profiling" where you compare the meter with a spectrophotometers to get more accuracy (although most of what I've seen have been on cheaper models than this). Is this necessary or advisable with this model? I was hoping this was the only equipment I'd need.



2.) How long is it the NIST certification for and how often would it need sent in for recalibration? (I'd only plan to check display calibration every year or two.) Is there a lot of drift for these?



3.) Is there any preference on whether it's better to tripod mount vs. hang over the front of the screen? (The former would likely be easier for me).



Thanks for any help!
1. The C6 HDR2000 is just an i1Display Pro with Spectracal's custom profiles. A meter profile isn't "required" in order to get started calibrating, but if you want the best possible accuracy, then I would recommend it. The good news is you don't have to buy a spectro. You can contact a local ISF calibrator and get a pricing on a profile. They will use their commercial grade spectro($5,000+) for the profiling. The only downside to this is the profile will only be useful on the display unit the profile was created for. If you intend on calibrating numerous displays you may want to invest in a spectro. The best value consumer spectro is an i1 Pro 2.

2. 1 year usually. Recertification isn't necessarily needed every year. If you take care of the meter by not hitting/dropping it and stored properly, then it can possibly stay accurate for many years. Recertification is something professionals do regularly to ensure they are doing their job properly.

3. It all depends on the situation. @ConnecTEDDD can help answer that.
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post #73 of 101 Old 05-26-2019, 11:10 PM
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Thanks much for the info. Re #1 , I'm in a location without many ISF calibrators around here, so I'm not sure how viable that would be (I would assume they'd have to do *my* display, not just one of that same model). Since my display supports AutoCal, maybe the Spectracal profile built-in would be enough if I did go with the C6?

Appreciate the recertification info too.
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post #74 of 101 Old 05-27-2019, 01:27 AM
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The C6 (any version) is just an iOEM i1D3 in drag.
Nothing different.

The Calman profiles are not built into the probe - they reside within Calman.
If you use a C6 with other software you will see the presets that software uses, not Calman's.
The presets provided by other systems are just as accurate for the display technologies they are supplied for.

Using a spectro on your specific display is the best way to gain true accuracy.
It means the response of your actual display is taken into account.

For any i1D3, recertification is a not viable, as all you can do is measure to see if the probe has drifted.
You cannot 'correct' any drift, other than by using a spectro to build your own corrections.

Steve
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post #75 of 101 Old 05-27-2019, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The C6 (any version) is just an iOEM i1D3 in drag.
Nothing different.

The Calman profiles are not built into the probe - they reside within Calman.
If you use a C6 with other software you will see the presets that software uses, not Calman's.
The presets provided by other systems are just as accurate for the display technologies they are supplied for.

Using a spectro on your specific display is the best way to gain true accuracy.
It means the response of your actual display is taken into account.

For any i1D3, recertification is a not viable, as all you can do is measure to see if the probe has drifted.
You cannot 'correct' any drift, other than by using a spectro to build your own corrections.

Steve
Interesting - thanks much!
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post #76 of 101 Old 05-27-2019, 09:02 AM
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My meter is a Rev A-02 date is 01/2012. Not likely to work up to 2000 nits.
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post #77 of 101 Old 05-27-2019, 09:04 AM
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My meter is a Rev A-02 date is 01/2012. Not likely to work up to 2000 nits.
Yah it's not.
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post #78 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 02:34 PM
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There is no filter, it is a new hardware revision from our manufacturing partner, X-rite.
WiFI, is this true, when my C6 2000 gets out of compliance it cant be fixed? I just sent mine back for re-certification, but nothing is fixed if I have errors?


The C6 (any version) is just an iOEM i1D3 in drag.
Nothing different.

The Calman profiles are not built into the probe - they reside within Calman.
If you use a C6 with other software you will see the presets that software uses, not Calman's.
The presets provided by other systems are just as accurate for the display technologies they are supplied for.

Using a spectro on your specific display is the best way to gain true accuracy.
It means the response of your actual display is taken into account.

For any i1D3, recertification is a not viable, as all you can do is measure to see if the probe has drifted.
You cannot 'correct' any drift, other than by using a spectro to build your own corrections.

Steve
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post #79 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 02:41 PM
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C6 HDR2000 colorimeter from SpectraCal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rswood View Post
WiFI, is this true, when my C6 2000 gets out of compliance it cant be fixed? I just sent mine back for re-certification, but nothing is fixed if I have errors?




We re-certify it in our color lab against our Photo Research PR-740. If it passes the test we provide a one year NIST certification.

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post #80 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 03:53 PM
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We re-certify it in our color lab against our Photo Research PR-740. If it passes the test we provide a one year NIST certification.
Is there a link or a address on how or where we send in our C6's to get recertify?

I have to send mine in December for recertification. Thanks.

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post #81 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 04:09 PM
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Is there a link or a address on how or where we send in our C6's to get recertify?



I have to send mine in December for recertification. Thanks.


It is in our web store on Portrait.com
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post #82 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We re-certify it in our color lab against our Photo Research PR-740. If it passes the test we provide a one year NIST certification.
Tyler, so in English that means what? When the meter is sent back to me it has been tested and if errors are found they are fixed internally on the meter or an offset has been applied through my Calman software when I open the app.

Can you explain.
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post #83 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 04:51 PM
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WiFI, is this true, when my C6 2000 gets out of compliance it cant be fixed? I just sent mine back for re-certification, but nothing is fixed if I have errors?
Hi,

Generally talking about calibration instruments, there 2 procedures, the re-certification and the re-calibration.

For example JETI offers both, if you send your JETI spectroradiometer, they can tell you (will less money from actual re-calibration service price) if the instrument need re-calibration or not. They call this as 'Pass/Fail Check' not exact re-certification.

The re-certification means you check the meter for just a pass/fail, if it has large deviation then you don't provide a new certification. The meter need to perform with largest deviation of xy +-000.1 and Y +-2% from the reference material.

The re-calibration (something even X-Rite Repairing Center is not offering for i1Display PRO) means that you have to re-characterize with 1-per-1 nano-meter accuracy each meter sensor/filter spectral characteristics data using a laboratory grade scanning double monochromator and then upload the new data internally to the colorimeter, this is how colorimeters with spectral characterization technology work and this is the only way to correct an instrument that has been drifted and be out of specs. (also to perform the same process with second mode the meter has, with the integrated ambient measurement diffuser, because each diffuser i1Display PRO (or C6) are equipped are unique for each meter and there data also to the meter memory for that calibration additionally.)

All the other meter tables (created from X-Rite for i1Display PRO or from SpectraCAL for C6) are EDR files (Emissive Display Reference) created also by taking 1 nanometer spectral measurements of different display types, and they are coming as files inside CalMAN' installation folder, internally to the instrument only the default sensor calibration data is stored (Its the selection of RAW XYZ in CalMAN).

So when you select for example WRGB Table for C6, the sensor spectral factory (RAW XYZ) sensor data (1nm) is combined with the WRGB OLED EDR file (1nm) spectral data and give a corrected XYZ value, then that value is converted using CIE1913 CMF (default CMF) from CalMAN (with 64-bit) to xyY reading you see at the software UI charts.



One of the first ever shipped SpectraCAL C6 Special Edition was my meter, I had pre-ordered when its been announced.....here is the NIST paper:




..and a SpectraCAL C6-HDR2000 also, here is his NIST Paper:



Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
We re-certify it in our color lab against our Photo Research PR-740. If it passes the test we provide a one year NIST certification.
Both NIST papers say that 'calibration was performed', these words are not clear if SpectraCAL providing a spectral re-calibration of sensor data (and upload internally to the C6 the new spectral data) or a pass/fail using a reference spectro for that test (without able to modify any spectral data), measuring an LCD monitor as Portrait site has the following picture:




Quote:
Originally Posted by rswood View Post
Tyler, so in English that means what? When the meter is sent back to me it has been tested and if errors are found they are fixed internally on the meter or an offset has been applied through my Calman software when I open the app.

Can you explain.
I have the exact same interest like you, for my C6:

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post #84 of 101 Old 08-05-2019, 09:34 PM
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We re-certify it in our color lab against our Photo Research PR-740. If it passes the test we provide a one year NIST certification.
Tyler, can you please respond to my earlier question on this subject, has my meter been calibrated or just measured for $200.00 dollars.
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post #85 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupta View Post
3.) Is there any preference on whether it's better to tripod mount vs. hang over the front of the screen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
3. It all depends on the situation. @ConnecTEDDD can help answer that.
Hi, EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors) recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method, but you need to have light controlled condition.

With contact mode, you touch the panel so its important to assure that they meter is not touching the screen lightly enough to avoid any changes in the measurement results from mechanical contact. Some panels are more sensitive than some others, so with non-contact, even with a small distance from the screen using a tripod it will be better to use.

Light emitted from displays is a electromagnetic radiation which will alter the temperature of the detection system of a meter, also the sensors themselves will heat up when the panel heat will be transferred to the meter also (when you are using it in contact mode), heat is not good for the sensors, when the meter is becoming warm, more noise is added to the sensor and this reduce the instrument S/N ratio.

Also there a small but measurable difference with meter orientation (cable up vs. cable down).

X-Rite is operating the instrument at their factory to perform the known to them tests with the cable up.

SpectraCAL is checking for their accuracy the C6's with cable up also.
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post #86 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 06:22 AM
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It is in our web store on Portrait.com
Tyler, can you respond to my 2 previous questions in regards to what is done with the $700.00 meter when it gets out of spec. I purchased my meter from you and less than 2 years I recently sent it back for recertification and what I thought was recalibration. Now I find out, I think , because no one at your company will respond to my question. What did I get for $200.00 dollars when I sent my meter back. I got a card that said my meters had errors. So now my meter is useless, or has an internal offset been applied.
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post #87 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rswood View Post
Tyler, can you respond to my 2 previous questions in regards to what is done with the $700.00 meter when it gets out of spec. I purchased my meter from you and less than 2 years I recently sent it back for recertification and what I thought was recalibration. Now I find out, I think , because no one at your company will respond to my question. What did I get for $200.00 dollars when I sent my meter back. I got a card that said my meters had errors. So now my meter is useless, or has an internal offset been applied.
I can tell you right now they will not apply an internal offset. I can 100% guarantee this. Just like what Teddd has already told you.

The only question that is left is if they can apply Calman software offsets. I'm assuming they can, but this also assumes the errors are linear. If the errors are not, then even a software offset won't help.
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post #88 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
It is in our web store on Portrait.com
I have found that web-store page and the title of the webpage is ''Colorimeter Calibration/Re-Cer'', in plain English, does it means that its a 2 step procedure or only a pass/fail and should called differently for not confusing about what that service is doing actually?

If its a 2-step procedure then meter has to re-calibrated first (by uploading new sensor characterization data internally to each C6) and then (second-step) verified to pass the Re-certification (pass/fail test testing one display type table, checking one display type to the lab).

Usually companies who perform re-calibration, provide measurement to show how the meter was before re-calibration and how it became after re-calibration. Can this info be provided for C6, in case that service its provided called as ''Colorimeter Calibration/Re-Cer'' is performing a sensor characterization upload of new data internally to the meter, if the user will request it?

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #89 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I can tell you right now they will not apply an internal offset. I can 100% guarantee this. Just like what Teddd has already told you.
Correct, Its not possible for any company to write 3x3 matrix internally for i1Display PRO's (OEM/Retail/Branded custom OEM like C6) to correct the meter sensor/filters, the instrument designed to use only that completely unique (when its been released) method of sensor spectral characterization calibration.

So if it has re-characterization capability, its possible only if you actually measure each meter sensor and upload new data internally to the meter.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #90 of 101 Old 08-06-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
I have found that web-store page and the title of the webpage is ''Colorimeter Calibration/Re-Cer'', in plain English, does it means that its a 2 step procedure or only a pass/fail and should called differently for not confusing about what that service is doing actually?

If its a 2-step procedure then meter has to re-calibrated first (by uploading new sensor characterization data internally to each C6) and then (second-step) verified to pass the Re-certification (pass/fail test testing one display type table, checking one display type to the lab).

Usually companies who perform re-calibration, provide measurement to show how the meter was before re-calibration and how it became after re-calibration. Can this info be provided for C6, in case that service its provided called as ''Colorimeter Calibration/Re-Cer'' is performing a sensor characterization upload of new data internally to the meter, if the user will request it?
I just spent $200.00 dollars and sent my meter back for what I thought was certification and calibration for my $700.00 meter to find out I think, that I wasted my money. My meter came back with a card the said I had errors but no information that those errors were fixed. So I now have a brick that sits on my tv? Tyler will not respond. I have been a customer for more than 15 years and can’t get a honest answer to my question.

If it is true that the meter can not be brought back into compliance then what good is the meter? I take very good care of my meter stored in its case. And in less than 2 years it is now worthless as a stand alone meter? I will continue to ask this question until I get a response.
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