X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM with 2000 nits Luminance Range - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 21Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
I own C7P, KS8000, and a X800E.
If you want to do HDR10 calibration to your Samsung then you will need the newer i1Display PRO (OEM 2017 model) because Samsung KS8000 has peak output of about 1450 nits in HDR10 mode.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Just for clarification, the new Rev B OEM doesn't offer any other improvements for someone who has an HDR TV less then 1000 nits, right?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Up to 1000nits measurements there zero difference.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #33 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsyp View Post
Hmm, slightly miffed as I bought a new retail rev B just 2 weeks ago having been told there were no differences between the retail and OEM versions. Not that I need the extra luminance headroom currently, thankfully.

Paul
Hi Paul,

X-Rite hadn't informed any OEM re-seller of their meters about this change, this is the reason they have told you that the OEM/Retail were exact the same meters from hardware point of view.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 05:58 AM
Member
 
youngsyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The home of British motorsport.
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Paul,

X-Rite hadn't informed any OEM re-seller of their meters about this change, this is the reason they have told you that the OEM/Retail were exact the same meters from hardware point of view.
Hi Ted,

Yes understood. Very poor show on the part of X-rite though.

Paul
youngsyp is offline  
post #35 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsyp View Post
Hi Ted,

Yes understood. Very poor show on the part of X-rite though.

Paul
Exactly, they have lost a lot of meter sales 7 months already from that fact, because we were aware of that detail.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #36 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 07:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Up to 1000nits measurements there zero difference.
Thanks Ted. I messaged Light Illusion and they said the new Rev B is an overall improvement on the original model, including the AIO mode.

What is AIO they are referring to?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #37 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Thanks Ted. I messaged Light Illusion and they said the new Rev B is an overall improvement on the original model, including the AIO mode.

What is AIO they are referring to?
The latest generation of i1Display PRO (Rev.B) it features a new refresh rate detection and synchronization AIO (All in One) measurement mode which can improve the measurement stability for certain displays and provide lower reading times.

According to feedback I have from a Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk user which is using LightSpace HTL + i1DisplayPRO Rev.B + KURO + eeColor and he has performed a lot of testing using LightSpace's 'Measure and log' where it exports in excel (CVS) file format the xyY and the measuring times per each read in milliseconds, for us to find by comparing the data's which mode and integration time settings is giving him better repeatability while it has faster measuring speed (Test Procedure Link)....we found by comparing the data's between AIO vs. Burst Mode (Rev. A using Burst mode for Plasma) from i1Display PRO Rev.B Meter that that new AIO mode is about 30-50% faster from Burst Mode of Rev. A from the data I have.

AIO mode is supported from only from LightSpace and ChromaPure.

HCFR/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS/CalMAN has wrote custom code with adaptive exposure times/sync mode to provide something similar to X-Rite's AIO mode.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #38 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 07:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The latest generation of i1Display PRO (Rev.B) it features a new refresh rate detection and synchronization AIO (All in One) measurement mode which can improve the measurement stability for certain displays and provide lower reading times.

According to feedback I have from a Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk user which is using LightSpace HTL + i1DisplayPRO Rev.B + KURO + eeColor and he has performed a lot of testing using LightSpace's 'Measure and log' where it exports in excel (CVS) file format the xyY and the measuring times per each read in milliseconds, for us to find by comparing the data's which mode and integration time settings is giving him better repeatability while it has faster measuring speed (Test Procedure Link)....we found by comparing the data's between AIO vs. Burst Mode (Rev. A using Burst mode for Plasma) from i1Display PRO Rev.B Meter that that new AIO mode is about 30-50% faster from Burst Mode of Rev. A from the data I have.

AIO mode is supported from only from LightSpace and ChromaPure.

HCFR/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS/CalMAN has wrote custom code with adaptive exposure times/sync mode to provide something similar to X-Rite's AIO mode.
Thanks!

So the Sync function I use every time with CalMAN where it tests how fast patterns can be displayed (usually 0.25 seconds for my OLED and iD3) is essentially the same thing as using AIO on the new Rev B?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #39 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
So the Sync function I use every time with CalMAN where it tests how fast patterns can be displayed (usually 0.25 seconds for my OLED and iD3) is essentially the same thing as using AIO on the new Rev B?
No, this function you are talking with CalMAN it's testing your signal latency, so it suggest you the delay before each patch read. (not related with meter settings optimize)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #40 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 08:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
No, this function you are talking with CalMAN it's testing your signal latency, so it suggest you the delay before each patch read. (not related with meter settings optimize)
Oops you are right. My mistake

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #41 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 08:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
No, this function you are talking with CalMAN it's testing your signal latency, so it suggest you the delay before each patch read. (not related with meter settings optimize)
I'll go for a second attempt:

Are the built in display profiles in CalMAN what you are referring to as an attempt to match the AIO mode described?

I.e - when I set my display type as OLED this does behind the scenes stuff to sync the meter as to improve speed and repeatability such as AIO would for Light space?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #42 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 09:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hey guys,

The i1Display PRO OEM which LightIlussion webstore is selling, they are all arrive from USA to any destination.
So are you saying the units come from the US or they will ship to the US?

Because I looked at their site, and everything is in GBP, which means they are located in the UK (assumed). IF so I don't want to get hit with a custom fee/tax if shipping to the US. Sometimes I get hit, sometimes I don't, it's a roll of the dice.

So buying from the US, I being in California, is the safer choice.
rotarydude is offline  
post #43 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
So are you saying the units come from the US or they will ship to the US?

Because I looked at their site, and everything is in GBP, which means they are located in the UK (assumed). IF so I don't want to get hit with a custom fee/tax if shipping to the US. Sometimes I get hit, sometimes I don't, it's a roll of the dice.

So buying from the US, I being in California, is the safer choice.
Don't worry, the meter will come to you directly from X-Rite's warehouse in USA and the invoice will come to you from UK (you pay in UK Pounds because the company is UK based.)

The same is happening when you buy Colorimetry Research or Klein meter, all meters are new stock directly from each company.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #44 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 12:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Don't worry, the meter will come to you directly from X-Rite's warehouse in USA and the invoice will come to you from UK (you pay in UK Pounds because the company is UK based.)

The same is happening when you buy Colorimetry Research or Klein meter, all meters are new stock directly from each company.
alright let me calculate the currency exchange and see how the pricing is. Thank you for the information
rotarydude is offline  
post #45 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I'll go for a second attempt:

Are the built in display profiles in CalMAN what you are referring to as an attempt to match the AIO mode described?

I.e - when I set my display type as OLED this does behind the scenes stuff to sync the meter as to improve speed and repeatability such as AIO would for Light space?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
No, the selections you see per each display tech is some EDR* files which X-Rite has equip the meter from the factory.

X-Rite's EDR file contains a wavelenth correction per nm for each display technology they used as reference and used at their labs, is not a simple text with 3x3 XYZ correction matrix data.

For example for the OLED EDR, X-Rite has created it for RGB OLED use, for professional monitors while the consumer OLED's from LG are WRGB.

In CalMAN, you have these meter options:: sec of Exposure time or number of samples, Sync On/Off/Auto.

In LightSpace you have meter intergration time (exposure time) and meter working modes labeled as: CRT/LCD/Burst/AIO; these are different ways that the meter is working internally (which have difference sync modes internally). These names are added for easy of use, it doesn't mean that if you have an LCD projector you have to use the LCD mode, you can test these 4 modes to see what differences you see and decide which is better for your setup.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 07-22-2017 at 06:50 AM.
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #46 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 02:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
No, the selections you see per each display tech is some EDR* files which X-Rite has equip the meter from the factory.

X-Rite's EDR file contains a wavelenth correction per nm for each display technology they used as reference and used at their labs, is not a simple text with 3x3 XYZ correction matrix data.

For example for the OLED EDR, X-Rite has created it for RGB OLED use, for professional monitors while the consumer OLED's from LG are WRGB.

In CalMAN, you have these meter options:: sec of Exposure time or number of samples, Sync On/Off.

In LightSpace you have meter intergration time (exposure time) and meter working modes labeled as: CRT/LCD/Burst/AIO; these are different ways that the meter is working internally (which have difference sync modes internally). These names are added for easy of use, it doesn't mean that if you have an LCD projector you have to use the LCD mode, you can test these 4 modes to see what differences you see and decide which is better for your setup.
Now I got it.

I know this has been asked in the past, but since consumer OLED's are WRGB instead of just RGB as the EDR file is made for, is there a measurable difference when using the OLED profile?

I'm just curious as I'll be profiling my iD3 tomorrow with my new i1Pro and wasn't sure if it's beneficial to select OLED as the display type in CalMAN during the profile sequence or if I can leave the display type blank?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #47 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Now I got it.

I know this has been asked in the past, but since consumer OLED's are WRGB instead of just RGB as the EDR file is made for, is there a measurable difference when using the OLED profile?

I'm just curious as I'll be profiling my iD3 tomorrow with my new i1Pro and wasn't sure if it's beneficial to select OLED as the display type in CalMAN during the profile sequence or if I can leave the display type blank?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
X-Rite has equid the i1Display PRO with tables for PC/Post production monitors, this is the reason they have used RGB OLED and not WRGB OLED (consumer)

Another example, X-Rite's i1Display PRO has a ''RG Phosphor'' where X-Rite has taken spectral sample from Dell Ultrasharp U2413 (GB-LED) while it's being used by consumers TV from Vizio RG Phosphor users a lot.

When you create a meter correction table, it will be an offset to the selected table you have, but you can use the RAW mode, which is a better idea.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #48 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 07:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
X-Rite has equid the i1Display PRO with tables for PC/Post production monitors, this is the reason they have used RGB OLED and not WRGB OLED (consumer)

Another example, X-Rite's i1Display PRO has a ''RG Phosphor'' where X-Rite has taken spectral sample from Dell Ultrasharp U2413 (GB-LED) while it's being used by consumers TV from Vizio RG Phosphor users a lot.

When you create a meter correction table, it will be an offset to the selected table you have, but you can use the RAW mode, which is a better idea.
I tried googling but couldn't find many threads on it: what is Raw XYZ doing in terms of taking measurements as opposed to using one of the loaded display type tables like OLED or LCD?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Last edited by BigCoolJesus; 07-21-2017 at 08:09 PM.
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #49 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I tried googling but couldn't find many threads on it: what is Raw XYZ doing in terms of taking measurements as opposed to using one of the loaded display type tables like OLED or LCD?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
RAW XYZ is the mode which has no correction loaded, it's exact what the sensors see.

OLED table is RAW XYZ + OLED EDR correction added.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #50 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 06:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
RAW XYZ is the mode which has no correction loaded, it's exact what the sensors see.

OLED table is RAW XYZ + OLED EDR correction added.
I understand the EDR correction tables are supposed to help the meter "predict" the results it is capturing based on the display properties (wavelength, etc) but from everything I've learned in these calibration threads, and especially from everything I've learned from you Ted, every single panel of a display is slightly different and the behavior measured in the Xrite factory isn't going to necessarily hold true to what the meter ends up measuring in the consumer's hands.

To me it seems Raw mode would give the most accurate readings and measurements all the time. So why would someone even bother selecting a different Display Mode?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #51 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I understand the EDR correction tables are supposed to help the meter "predict" the results it is capturing based on the display properties (wavelength, etc) but from everything I've learned in these calibration threads, and especially from everything I've learned from you Ted, every single panel of a display is slightly different and the behavior measured in the Xrite factory isn't going to necessarily hold true to what the meter ends up measuring in the consumer's hands.

To me it seems Raw mode would give the most accurate readings and measurements all the time. So why would someone even bother selecting a different Display Mode?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
When you don't have a spectro to create a unique correction table for each panel you have, then it's unknown which of the the factory defaults is closer to your panel...because X-Rite has used PC Monitor or Data projector to create these tables, and not consumer devices of HT market.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #52 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 07:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BigCoolJesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,259
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2244 Post(s)
Liked: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When you don't have a spectro to create a unique correction table for each panel you have, then it's unknown which of the the factory defaults is closer to your panel...because X-Rite has used PC Monitor or Data projector to create these tables, and not consumer devices of HT market.
Thanks Ted!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
BigCoolJesus is offline  
post #53 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 8,771
Mentioned: 219 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3467 Post(s)
Liked: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifak View Post
Hmm. Price isn't favorable to the dollar. I think FSI carries the the OEM version as well. Might be a good place to buy in the US if the have a new version.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Hi, if you compare the price of FSI vs. LightIllussion, it's exact the same.

FSI price don't include shipping cost (+$15 UPS Ground) while LightIllusion is including shipping (using UPS Ground), so if you do the calculation of exchange rate or UK Pounds - Dollars, you will see that both sites have exact same price.

LightIlussion ships all meters from USA's X-Rite warehouse (so you get new stock), just you will get invoice from UK.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #54 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 03:23 PM
Member
 
DarkHorse88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 25
So, when will the Retail version begin shipping with the new hardware revision? Can't help but feel cheated that my Jan. 2017 built Rev. B is capped to 1000 nits while an OEM unit from the same month has the upgraded hardware. The fact that X-Rite did this major update in secret and did not apply it to Retail units is bull****.
DarkHorse88 is offline  
post #55 of 117 Old 07-22-2017, 05:23 PM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 3,491
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2810 Post(s)
Liked: 1945
So, I was playing around this evening and briefly turned my RETAIL i1d3 rev B around and pointed it directly at the projector while using Measure function in Lightspace, moving it closer (diffuser not fitted, just for a quick test). Result - it reads values well over 2000 nits. So I guess if I had a 2000 nit TV and put the meter on it it would also read 2000 nits on that.

Serial numbers is i1-16.b-02.24xxxx.06. Bought Nov 2016.

I've still not seen any clear detail of:
1) what is supposed to happen with a meter which doesn't support 2000 nit readings - do the readings stop at 1000nits and it gives read errors? or do you get readings, but they just cannot be trusted for accuracy?
2) what the changes are to the meters which now support HDR over those that don't, and whether those changes have any effect elsewhere in the reading range - i.e. worse low-end sensitivity.

Does anyone know the answers to the above? Because if I didn't know better I'd say at the moment that my retail rev B meter seems to read 2000 nits just fine.
bobof is offline  
post #56 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 12:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,878
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 805 Post(s)
Liked: 1200
The pre-Jan 2017 i1D3 probe are not guaranteed over 1000 nits...
The post-Jan 2017 are.
With pre-Jan 2017 probes you will get readings well over 1000 nits.

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is offline  
post #57 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 02:00 AM
Member
 
DarkHorse88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The pre-Jan 2017 i1D3 probe are not guaranteed over 1000 nits...
The post-Jan 2017 are.
With pre-Jan 2017 probes you will get readings well over 1000 nits.

Steve
Steve, just to clarify, you're saying that some, not all pre-2017 iD3 PRO units may easily read luminance values above 1000 cdm2, but there''s no assurance of reasonable chromaticity accuracy above that 1000 nit ceiling? But with the 2017 OEM units, they will be reasonably accurate between 1000 and 2000 cdm2? Thanks in advance.
DarkHorse88 is offline  
post #58 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 02:09 AM
Member
 
DarkHorse88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
So, I was playing around this evening and briefly turned my RETAIL i1d3 rev B around and pointed it directly at the projector while using Measure function in Lightspace, moving it closer (diffuser not fitted, just for a quick test). Result - it reads values well over 2000 nits. So I guess if I had a 2000 nit TV and put the meter on it it would also read 2000 nits on that.

Serial numbers is i1-16.b-02.24xxxx.06. Bought Nov 2016.

I've still not seen any clear detail of:
1) what is supposed to happen with a meter which doesn't support 2000 nit readings - do the readings stop at 1000nits and it gives read errors? or do you get readings, but they just cannot be trusted for accuracy?
2) what the changes are to the meters which now support HDR over those that don't, and whether those changes have any effect elsewhere in the reading range - i.e. worse low-end sensitivity.

Does anyone know the answers to the above? Because if I didn't know better I'd say at the moment that my retail rev B meter seems to read 2000 nits just fine.
Thank you for the feedback. Later today I'm going to perform a similar test with my Retail Rev. B. I haven't had my probe on a display pushing more than 800 nits yet. As you suggested and I posed to Steve, the real question is whether our Retail units can read above the 1000 nit ceiling with any degree of relative accuracy.
DarkHorse88 is offline  
post #59 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 03:31 AM
aka jfinnie
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 3,491
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2810 Post(s)
Liked: 1945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The pre-Jan 2017 i1D3 probe are not guaranteed over 1000 nits...
The post-Jan 2017 are.
With pre-Jan 2017 probes you will get readings well over 1000 nits.
Thanks Steve.
I think the highest reading I saw way something like 2300nits. I didn't want to stick it any closer so gave up there.
Of course this just raises more questions in what seems like a bit of an unclear soup...

From what I've seen in the marketing for the probe from some source (http://www.vpixx.com/datasheets/ds_i1display_pro.pdf) - very little useful data really out there:
• Luminance Measurement Range: 0.1 cd/m2 to 1,000 cd/m2
• Minimum measurement integration time: 0.1 sec / measurement @ 100 cd/m2
• Maximum measurement integration time: 6 sec / measurement @ 0.10 cd/m2
• Accuracy: Illuminant A under X-Rite’s standard measurement conditions
o Color = ± 0.004 x, y @ 100 cd/m2
o Luminance = ± 4.0% @ 100 cd/m2
• Short-term repeatability: Illuminant A under X-Rite’s standard measurement conditions
o Color = ± 0.001 x, y @ 100 cd/m2
o Luminance = ± 1.0% @ 100 cd/m2

And your own website:
Luma Measurement range: 0.1 to 2000 cd/m2
Luma Accuracy: +/- 4% (@ 100 cd/m2)
Chroma Accuracy: +/- 0.004 (@ 100 cn/m2) (typo there I guess)

None of these specifications described how well the probe is/was expected to perform at 1000/2000 nits, nor it would appear should you expect any readings of use below 0.1cd/m2.

If there is a probe which is rev B retail / OEM pre Jan 2017 that is reading values over 1000 nits, on what scale are these values considered "worse" than values at 1000 nits (is there any data for what the accuracy looked like across the respective measurement ranges pre- and post- OEM Jan 2017 changes?).

The (very cynical) in me looks to my sphere of understanding - the world of electronics design. When looking at part datasheets you'd expect to see charts showing these parameters plotted, with the numbers and statements listed above just forming the "top line marketing" of the product to trap people who don't bother to read any further, but in this case it seems all we have to go on. The charts in the data sheets would usually show for a part marketed as above that the performance wasn't what you'd really like across the range.

Have you seen charts that express the accuracy of these meters over the stated range - and what is the change to this between the different revisions of meter? Have you or are you aware of anyone testing rev A / B preJan2017 / B postJan2017 probes against another probe which has better specified and understood ranges of performance?

I actually care very little for HDR, being into projection. My biggest concern is that in the absence of any hard data to the contrary, x-rite on their current specification could have significantly hampered the low end performance of their probes to gain the extra headroom and still be well within their very limited public spec.

Last edited by bobof; 07-23-2017 at 04:50 AM.
bobof is offline  
post #60 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 08:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, if you compare the price of FSI vs. LightIllussion, it's exact the same.

FSI price don't include shipping cost (+$15 UPS Ground) while LightIllusion is including shipping (using UPS Ground), so if you do the calculation of exchange rate or UK Pounds - Dollars, you will see that both sites have exact same price.

LightIlussion ships all meters from USA's X-Rite warehouse (so you get new stock), just you will get invoice from UK.
Yeah, that was before I knew FSI's price. Calman sells their OEM i1d3 for $250 but can't guarantee the manufacturing date.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
clifak is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off