X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM with 2000 nits Luminance Range - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by clifak View Post
Yeah, that was before I knew FSI's price. Calman sells their OEM i1d3 for $250 but can't guarantee the manufacturing date.

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SpectraCAL price don't include shipping. do you know how much it's the shipping cost?

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post #62 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 09:25 AM
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I have a Rev A Retail unit purchased in 2014. Should I bother getting the newer unit, since I have a Sony VW520ES 4K HDR projector?

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post #63 of 117 Old 07-23-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
SpectraCAL price don't include shipping. do you know how much it's the shipping cost?
I do not, but I bet it's not $50.

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post #64 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 01:05 PM
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Retail i1Display Pro will read to 2000nits

To try to resolve the issue of whether current retail version of i1Display Pro will read to 2000 nits, I called X-Rite and spoke with tech support in their Filmmaking Division. I was informed that current versions of both the i1Display Pro and the i1D3 colorimeters will read to 2000 nits. When pressed the tech explained that he recently used an i1Display Pro to calibrate a monitor with luminance readings of 1500 nits and had no problems making the calibration.

I haven't seen anything in writing from X-Rite to confirm that, so make of it what you will.
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post #65 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vbgeek View Post
To try to resolve the issue of whether current retail version of i1Display Pro will read to 2000 nits, I called X-Rite and spoke with tech support in their Filmmaking Division. I was informed that current versions of both the i1Display Pro and the i1D3 colorimeters will read to 2000 nits.
The plot thickens...!
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post #66 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 01:32 PM
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I think the issue is reliability of results.

Yes the Rev A can read at higher luminance then specified, but how reliably? Just because you are getting results, doesn't mean it's actually working properly.

Someone would need to profile a Rev A and a Rev B i1 Display Pro and then do higher luminance readings and compare their measurement results to the reference spectro used for profiling.

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post #67 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I think the issue is reliability of results.

Yes the Rev A can read at higher luminance then specified, but how reliably? Just because you are getting results, doesn't mean it's actually working properly.

Someone would need to profile a Rev A and a Rev B i1 Display Pro and then do higher luminance readings and compare their measurement results to the reference spectro used for profiling.
I think most of us in here get that

If what has been said is correct; then there are more variants than this of i1d3 which would have different results across their respective populations of meters which the various bits of "information" would classify as follows I believe:

1) i1d3 rev A retail + OEM (supposedly the same)
2) i1d3 rev B retail / perhaps the same as pre-Jan 2017 rev B OEM
3) i1d3 rev B OEM post-Jan 2017

Playing the devils advocate here; I am yet to see ANY hard information which says what the quality of measurements of ANY of the above meters is at 2000 nits... Or even 1000 nits...
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post #68 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Yes the Rev A can read at higher luminance then specified, but how reliably? Just because you are getting results, doesn't mean it's actually working properly.
Assuming the meter reads accurately under 1000 nits, you can use a neutral-density filter and 2 grey-scale test patterns to confirm the accuracy beyond 1000 nits.

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post #69 of 117 Old 07-24-2017, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Playing the devils advocate here; I am yet to see ANY hard information which says what the quality of measurements of ANY of the above meters is at 2000 nits... Or even 1000 nits...
X-Rite has never released at public any specification for their i1Display PRO, only a PDF specs we have found from VPixx is available for the meter. Also the LightIllusion site was the first one which informed about that 2000nits change, if you search any store, you will not find that info, Steve has contact the manufacturer since it's Official OEM meter dealer, so he got that info from first hand and officially.

i1Display PRO is a consumer device, low-cost, they do at their factory in China some kind of tests to keep the performance differences of unit-per-unit low, but as you have seen for example the C6 (which is nothing more that a branded OEM i1D3 from hardware side of view)...some of them can read up to 1300, others up to 1200 or 1100, this is fine for a meter which the company's specs say that they have luminance range up to 1000 nits to do a bit more.

The same is happening from any i1Display PRO Rev A/Rev B 2016), it's up to unit-to-unit variation to read 1000/1100/1200 max. 1300, since SpectraCAL is naming the ones can do up to 1300 nits as C6 HDR.

The specifications for meters per each luminance range is something ultra reference hi-end meters are posting (like Minolta), which coming with NIST certifications of a lot of testing at various different calibration lamps and cost some thousand dollars, for normal meters of consumer market which don't come with any proof of performance it's impossible to wait for such advanced testing, detailed spec per luminance range.
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post #70 of 117 Old 07-25-2017, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
The same is happening from any i1Display PRO Rev A/Rev B 2016), it's up to unit-to-unit variation to read 1000/1100/1200 max. 1300, since SpectraCAL is naming the ones can do up to 1300 nits as C6 HDR.
Hi Ted What does "max" and "can do" here actually mean?
Does it mean that
1) a meter that reads max 1100/1300 nits doesn't return any kind of reading above it?
Or does it means
2) it can't return a quality reading? (reading is there but low quality) - for some definition of "quality"
And if it is the 2nd of the above, someone somewhere (SpectrCAL, x-Rite) must have some definition of what that quality level is that is acceptable that the meters now meet.

I'm trying to work out if end users could have any confidence in the reading capability of their meter just by seeing if they get repeatable results on a >1000 nit bright display. If the mere presence of the repeatable reading means it is working, then that would be good. If the reading does have some kind of quality measure, then that is important information particularly if you're thinking of making 3DLUT with it.
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post #71 of 117 Old 07-25-2017, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Hi Ted What does "max" and "can do" here actually mean?
Does it mean that
1) a meter that reads max 1100/1300 nits doesn't return any kind of reading above it?
Or does it means
2) it can't return a quality reading? (reading is there but low quality) - for some definition of "quality"
And if it is the 2nd of the above, someone somewhere (SpectrCAL, x-Rite) must have some definition of what that quality level is that is acceptable that the meters now meet.

I'm trying to work out if end users could have any confidence in the reading capability of their meter just by seeing if they get repeatable results on a >1000 nit bright display. If the mere presence of the repeatable reading means it is working, then that would be good. If the reading does have some kind of quality measure, then that is important information particularly if you're thinking of making 3DLUT with it.
Hi,

I don't have any i1Display PRO or C6/C6-HDR to compare it with my Klein K-10A to see what luminance range can read or how it's tracking the Klein etc. I think that it will display a read error when you will try to measure something out of range. This is a question you have to ask to the C6-HDR thread, to get some feedback from SpectraCAL which has performed many times that test to locate which meters measure up to 1300 nits.

3D LUT and HDR is something that currently is not working at consumer displays.
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post #72 of 117 Old 07-25-2017, 06:01 AM
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I'll try to compare my c6 with a K10. I don't have a 1000>nits display, but I'm sure I can use a light bulb or something similar
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post #73 of 117 Old 07-25-2017, 06:52 AM
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Useful whitepaper from Spectracal on the behaviour of their C6HDR meter and what their process is for certifying.
http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...20C6%20HDR.pdf
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post #74 of 117 Old 07-26-2017, 08:13 AM
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Same Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabz View Post
Err this shouldn't it matter for projectors right? I got a retail iD3 Pro, for calibrating my Sony VW520ES the only 4K HDR display I have currently.
I currently have a VW600ES I would like to calibrate, and thinking about a VW675ES before the end of the year. Would having an OEM version that will do over 1000 nits matter? As you all may know, my 600ES in non-HDR... the 675ES will be... is there any rev. or version I should look for to make sure I can calibrate for HDR? I have a DA-Lite 2.4 high power screen, but doubt that it is going over 1000 nits.

I can probably find an older one cheaper, if having the 2000 nit version doesn't matter for projectors.

thanks in advance
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post #75 of 117 Old 07-27-2017, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Iam74Gibson View Post
I currently have a VW600ES I would like to calibrate, and thinking about a VW675ES before the end of the year. Would having an OEM version that will do over 1000 nits matter? As you all may know, my 600ES in non-HDR... the 675ES will be... is there any rev. or version I should look for to make sure I can calibrate for HDR? I have a DA-Lite 2.4 high power screen, but doubt that it is going over 1000 nits.

I can probably find an older one cheaper, if having the 2000 nit version doesn't matter for projectors.

thanks in advance
After doing further research, It is quite clear that my Projector will not come close to 1000 nit... so I will start looking for the best deals on a retail version. In other words, I answered my own question :-)
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post #76 of 117 Old 07-27-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hey guys,

The i1Display PRO OEM which LightIlussion webstore is selling, they are all arrive from USA to any destination.
Ted is 100% correct. I ordered my OEM meter from Light Illusion in Old Blighty, but it was drop shipped from X-Rite in the US and I got it a couple of hours ago.

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post #77 of 117 Old 08-09-2017, 03:23 AM
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I've been chatting with one of our display manufacture partners, who sell high-brightness displays for on-set use.
The displays are up 1500 to 2000 nit peak luma, and they have commented that although their older i1D3 probes will read to that level, they become unstable after a short period of time, with the output changing/becoming unstable when directly compared to a higher-spec probe, which remains stable at the same brightness levels.

As a result they are junking the older i1D3s.

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post #78 of 117 Old 08-14-2017, 06:43 PM
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My i1Display Pro has the following i1-14.A-02.xxxxxx-03 Rev.A -02 - Haven't seen any mention of the i1 - so this is good up to about 1300 Nits? Thanks.

My C6, which is not working so good, is: SP-11.A-02.xxxxxx-12 Rev.A-02 (why I bought the above meter)

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post #79 of 117 Old 08-15-2017, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
My i1Display Pro has the following i1-14.A-02.xxxxxx-03 Rev.A -02 - Haven't seen any mention of the i1 - so this is good up to about 1300 Nits? Thanks.

My C6, which is not working so good, is: SP-11.A-02.xxxxxx-12 Rev.A-02 (why I bought the above meter)
Hi, I have posted a page with a lot of data related for X-Rite i1Display PRO Retail/OEM/Branded OEM's, how to identify your meter revision and manufactured month/year, differences of i1Display PRO Revisions/OEM/Retail, how i1Display PRO (or generally colorimeters) and i1PRO2 work, info about an accurate meter profiling and details about the Four Color Matrix Method...all these info are collected to a large page: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/x...ions_info.html

Any i1Display PRO of older generation (pre-2017) has been certified to read up to 1000 nits, this doesn't mean that it will not measure something brighter, it can return measurements up to 1500-1700nits for example but these measurements will be not off and not data you can trust.

The latest revision of OEM 2017 Rev.B is certified from X-Rite that it can read up to 2000 nits, while it can show to you larger measurements....2500 or 3000 nits it will be not so useful since they will have large deviations at luminance/chromaticity from reality.

While X-Rite certifies all (pre-2017) meters for 1000 nits, SpectraCAL found that some meters (the i1Display PRO Branded OEM they are using to make the C6 or C6-HDR) can read higher levels; not all the meters can reach these levels without issues, so the ones which have found capableto read up to 1300 nits with ±2.0% for luminance and ±0.002 xy from their reference (Minolta CS-2000) then they name these meters as C6-HDR and provide a certification with exact luminance levels the meter is tested to be accurate....so it may be 1301 or 1320 nits etc..

If you have access to a reference spectro (JETI/Photoresearch/Colorimetry Research) and a source which can display such levels ; a Sony ZD9 or a Samsung QLED; (or other light source and you know how to do that test), you can check your own i1Display PRO to find out what luminance levels it's capable to read without problems.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
If you have access to a reference spectro (JETI/Photoresearch/Colorimetry Research) and a source which can display such levels ; a Sony ZD9 or a Samsung QLED; (or other light source and you know how to do that test), you can check your own i1Display PRO to find out what luminance levels it's capable to read without problems.
I don't think it is even as complicated as that; according to the work that Spectracal did in their white paper it looks like for i1d3 meters the colour x/y start to diverge from valid values before the luminance reading becomes non-linear. And you could already assume that you have a meter which is reading well at, say, 100 nits. So all you really need to do to check your meter is (theoretically!):
  • Set up a bright light source with a diffuser you can move in front of it.
  • Position meter pointing at diffuser without its own diffuser down. Find the diffuser position which gives 100 nits. Note the color co-ordinates.
  • Move the diffuser towards the light source, which should result in increasing luminance values but constant colour co-ordinates.
  • Once you get to the point where the colour co-ordinates start to to vary by more than +/- 0.002 you know you're in the region where your meter is no longer able to read accurately.

That's the theory anyway.
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post #81 of 117 Old 08-15-2017, 12:32 PM
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Having the Samsung HU9000 + SEK-3500U, I don't think I need worry about my i1Display Pro being over exposed.
It was just in the reading of this Forum, someone mentioned he was sorry he let his original Rev A's go, not realizing the following Rev Bs weren't able to read higher nits as well as his previous A did.

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post #82 of 117 Old 08-15-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Having the Samsung HU9000 + SEK-3500U, I don't think I need worry about my i1Display Pro being over exposed.
It was just in the reading of this Forum, someone mentioned he was sorry he let his original Rev A's go, not realizing the following Rev Bs weren't able to read higher nits as well as his previous A did.
That is me and you have it backwards (ISH)... I don't think rev B's read dark as well.

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post #83 of 117 Old 08-15-2017, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Having the Samsung HU9000 + SEK-3500U, I don't think I need worry about my i1Display Pro being over exposed.
It was just in the reading of this Forum, someone mentioned he was sorry he let his original Rev A's go, not realizing the following Rev Bs weren't able to read higher nits as well as his previous A did.
There a lot of posts, you probably mixed the results. One user was telling that the Rev.B was not reading such low as his older Rev.A, but this is happening when you use the new AIO mode with Rev.B and large integration times usually. AIO mode need some testing to see what integration time it will provide better results at low end. Ideally it's between 0.75-1.25 sec, but it need some test to find out which value gives better results for each display/projector. AIO mode and larger exposure times (2-3 sec) will have poor results.

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post #84 of 117 Old 08-15-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
One user was telling that the Rev.B was not reading such low as his older Rev.A, but this is happening when you use the new AIO mode with Rev.B and large integration times usually.
I find both CRT and Burst modes read low levels perhaps "worse" for my 2016 rev B retail vs my "new" 2014 rev A OEM, and this is the same as two other meters I've seen (another rev B retail and another rev A OEM). Comparing same mode and same integration time.

No setting I found in AIO mode on my current rev B can match the low level reading capability of the current rev A OEM in CRT mode with 3s integration time... but the readings at 0.003 nit on rev A OEM take a very, very long time. So not really a "fair" comparison.
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post #85 of 117 Old 08-20-2017, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
My i1Display Pro has the following i1-14.A-02.xxxxxx-03 Rev.A -02 - Haven't seen any mention of the i1 - so this is good up to about 1300 Nits? Thanks.

My C6, which is not working so good, is: SP-11.A-02.xxxxxx-12 Rev.A-02 (why I bought the above meter)
What problem does your C6 has? Is it slower from your Retail version or not so stable?

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post #86 of 117 Old 08-23-2017, 02:19 PM
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So I picked up an i1Display Pro Retail i1-17.B02xxxxxx.06 Rev. B-02 from Amazon. Any way I can tell if it's also good to 2000 nits?

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post #87 of 117 Old 08-23-2017, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post
So I picked up an i1Display Pro Retail i1-17.B02xxxxxx.06 Rev. B-02 from Amazon. Any way I can tell if it's also good to 2000 nits?
Hi, According to X-Rite partner sales department, only OEM 2017 manufactured meters are certified up to 2000 nits, you can see that if you that if you check some earlier posts.

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post #88 of 117 Old 08-26-2017, 02:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by linux.alucard View Post
hi Guys!

My i1Display Pro (retail) has the following I1-17.B-02.277063.06 this device supported 2000 Nits?

Thanks
Hi, see there: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54637258

All Retail meters are certified up to 1000nits, this is why X-Rite hasn't posted any info to their site product info, press release, news session or nowhere about that new 2000nits certification, because X-Rite and any online shop is selling Retail meters only.

If that update were available for Retail meters, X-Rite should have advertise it from the first day because that feature should have get X-Rite a lot of new sales in retail market.

The only sites which are selling OEM 2017 meters (certified for 2000 nits) are the OEM partners of X-Rite.

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post #89 of 117 Old 08-26-2017, 02:31 AM
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As Ted says, all 'Retail' versions of the i1D3 are only X-Rite certified to 1000 nits.
Only the OEM version (manufactured from Jan 2017) is certified to 2000 nits.

Steve

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post #90 of 117 Old 08-26-2017, 01:12 PM
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As Ted says, all 'Retail' versions of the i1D3 are only X-Rite certified to 1000 nits.
Only the OEM version (manufactured from Jan 2017) is certified to 2000 nits.
But if I don't care about HDR then that doesn't matter right? (LG B6)

Steve, ConnecTEDDD thank you, and sorry for my English!
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