X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM with 2000 nits Luminance Range - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 117 Old 07-18-2017, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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X-Rite i1Display PRO OEM with 2000 nits Luminance Range

Hey guys,

Some good news for all calibration enthusiasts, as we know, as HDR10/Dolby Vision is coming more and more to consumer area and this requires to spend some additional time (from the required time to calibrate for SDR / REC.709 for Blu-Ray's release of the movies) to calibrate for HDR10/Dolby Vision also.

The most popular meter in consumer market, the i1Display PRO had a limitation of measuring up to 1000 nits, so this was a problem for high-brightness HDR models of LED-LCD from Samsung/Sony were they were offering models with peak output beyond 1000 nits...up to 2000 nits (ZD9 is outputting 1950 - 2090 nits max) or upcoming models from OLED maybe next year or other brands to be measured with consumer friendly priced i1Display PRO meters. Also consumer friendly meters like i1Display PRO can work with consumer priced license levels or paid software.

Because of i1Display PRO max luminance limitation to read up to 1000 nits, it has a problem from high-luminance HDR display users to be able to calibrated them for HDR also, but something interesting came out while I was checking LightIlussion website... (actually a webpage I use to track a list of my favorite pages for changes...revealed that info, I use it to track software changes/releases/meter spec changes etc.)

Seems that X-Rite (silently) without any official statement/press release, they started to provide an upgraded model of i1Display PRO (OEM only) meter which seems to have capability to measure up to 2000 nits.

According to LightIlussion site I was checking; these meters introduced 'silently' to market (OEM meter market, not Retail market) from January 2017.

Is there any OEM meter user which have bought his meter from LightIllusion this year to check the serial number? or to see it he see any special marking?....or see any difference to meter part number...which will help the OEM meter users to see if they have the normal i1Display PRO OEM (1000 nits) or the newer i1Display PRO OEM (2000 nits) model?

Seems that X-Rite has upgraded with higher luminance capability only the OEM version of their meter and not the Retail, so any OEM meter until 2016 was up to 1000 nits and any OEM meter starting from 2017 is 2000 nits capable.
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post #2 of 117 Old 07-18-2017, 01:45 PM
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Ted is correct.
X-Rite upgraded the OEM version of the i1D3 to a 2000 nits peak luma capability from Jan 2017.
They just forgot to tell us!
I had a nice e-mail from X-Rite apologising for the info drop-off, and have now updated the i1D3 page of our website with the relevant info.

The only way to tell if you have a 2000 nit OEM i1D3 is the probe serial number, which has the date encoded into it.
(As Ted says, the Retail i1D3 is only capable of 1000 nits).

So, the Part Number must have the characters OEM at the end.
And the serial number will be something like OE-yy.A-02.101115.mm
Where 'yy' is the year, A-02 the hardware revision (the 2000 nit version will be RevB, this one is RevA, which is just what I had to hand as I write this...), 101115 is just an incremental number which will be different on every i1D3, and 'mm' is the month.
So, 'yy' needs to be 17, and as Jan is 01 anyway, that means 'mm' value is not really relevant.

Hope that helps.

Steve
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post #3 of 117 Old 07-18-2017, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
So, the Part Number must have the characters OEM at the end.
And the serial number will be something like OE-yy.A-02.101115.mm
Where 'yy' is the year, A-02 the hardware revision (the 2000 nit version will be RevB, this one is RevA, which is just what I had to hand as I write this...), 101115 is just an incremental number which will be different on every i1D3, and 'mm' is the month.
So, 'yy' needs to be 17, and as Jan is 01 anyway, that means 'mm' value is not really relevant.
Does it requires any special code from the software side to operate the meter at it's high luminance mode? ...or it will work with the same X-Rite's SDK like the OEM Rev. B meter?

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post #4 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Does it requires any special code from the software side to operate the meter at it's high luminance mode? ...or it will work with the same X-Rite's SDK like the OEM Rev. B meter?
It will work without any software alterations at all, as the internal change is physical, not a firmware change.
Si it will just 'plug-and-play' with LightSpace, and any other calibration software that works with the OEM version of the i1D3.

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post #5 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 07:32 AM
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I'm in! Just ordered one from LI...

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post #6 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 09:02 AM
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I'll definitely end up getting one whenever I make the leap to hdr either tv or monitor.
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post #7 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 09:20 AM
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What is the behaviour as you approach and exceed 1000nits on older units?
I bought a revB Retail unit in Nov16 and I am sure I remember when I experimented a while ago pointing it at the projector with the diffuser on I had some readings well over 1000, but conscious of the 1000 limit I backed off the distance until it read below 1000.
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post #8 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I bought a revB Retail unit in Nov16 and I am sure I remember when I experimented a while ago pointing it at the projector with the diffuser on I had some readings well over 1000, but conscious of the 1000 limit I backed off the distance until it read below 1000.
Hi, Ambient illuminance measurement range of any i1Display PRO (Rev A, Rev B, Rev B of 2017) is 0.5 lm/m2 - 5,000 lm/m2.

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post #9 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, Ambient illuminance measurement range of any i1Display PRO (Rev A, Rev B, Rev B of 2017) is 0.5 lm/m2 - 5,000 lm/m2.
Thanks. I was just a little suspicious as to how exactly the extra range is achieved - the reason being that my own retail rev B bought Nov 16 is noticeably worse for returning a reading at very low levels than my several years old rev A OEM (which I don't have any more).

That would tally up with the range having been extended by sticking an extra filter over the sensors and then digitally multiplying up the readings...

Do these 2000nit I1's read as well as non-HDR capable I1's at the low end?
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post #10 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Thanks. I was just a little suspicious as to how exactly the extra range is achieved - the reason being that my own retail rev B bought Nov 16 is noticeably worse for returning a reading at very low levels than my several years old rev A OEM (which I don't have any more).

That would tally up with the range having been extended by sticking an extra filter over the sensors and then digitally multiplying up the readings...

Do these 2000nit I1's read as well as non-HDR capable I1's at the low end?
X-Rite seems that it changed something internally, you can't measure using digital multiplier tricks.

For example the discontinued i1Display 2 (i1D2) was able to measure up to 3000nits and it was available in market a lot of years before any HDR display appear to any market.

i1D3 released at 2011 and there were no reason to measure higher from 1000 nits that period, so they designed that with that 1000 nits peak.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
X-Rite seems that it changed something internally, you can't measure using digital multiplier tricks.
I didn't suggest that. My suggestion was that if the limit was previously due to overloading the sensors, then you could fix it (as discussed in the other thread) by internally fitting some filter to limit light on the sensors and compensating for it in FW. This would give worse results at low light.

You didn't really increase the dynamic range, you shifted the useable luminance levels.

As Xrite spec for the lowest levels able to be read is much worse than what the devices currently actually can do, they could do this and still be within their lower spec limits (but they would be taking away from anyone who needed low end sensitivity).

Otherwise, there is some other explanation for rev B retail meters reading worse at bottom end than rev A. I actually had 2 rev B meters from the retailer as I guessed the first must be faulty due to this - but it turned out that the second sample performed the same.
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I didn't suggest that. My suggestion was that if the limit was previously due to overloading the sensors, then you could fix it (as discussed in the other thread) by internally fitting some filter to limit light on the sensors and compensating for it in FW. This would give worse results at low light.

You didn't really increase the dynamic range, you shifted the useable luminance levels.

As Xrite spec for the lowest levels able to be read is much worse than what the devices currently actually can do, they could do this and still be within their lower spec limits (but they would be taking away from anyone who needed low end sensitivity).

Otherwise, there is some other explanation for rev B retail meters reading worse at bottom end than rev A. I actually had 2 rev B meters from the retailer as I guessed the first must be faulty due to this - but it turned out that the second sample performed the same.
Your Rev B. were OEM or retail? What do you mean worse bottom end? it's displaying you a read error sooner from 0.003nits ? Are you using the same meter mode when you compare Rev. A - B ? What software have you used to run that test?

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post #13 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 11:27 AM
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Hmm. Price isn't favorable to the dollar. I think FSI carries the the OEM version as well. Might be a good place to buy in the US if the have a new version.

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post #14 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 01:49 PM
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Just for clarification, the new Rev B OEM doesn't offer any other improvements for someone who has an HDR TV less then 1000 nits, right?

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post #15 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 02:17 PM
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would you all recommend getting the i1 Display Pro 2000 nit OEM if I already have a i1Pro RevB ?

using the i1Pro as a profiler and using the new i1DPro 2000nit for measuring?

The software I normally use is the Calman 5; been using Calman 5 with the old i1Pro to do calibration with.

I own C7P, KS8000, and a X800E.

If so, where in the US can I purchase one that is 2000nit ready?

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post #16 of 117 Old 07-19-2017, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Your Rev B. were OEM or retail? What do you mean worse bottom end? it's displaying you a read error sooner from 0.003nits ? Are you using the same meter mode when you compare Rev. A - B ? What software have you used to run that test?
Rev A OEM
Rev B Retail
When I had both meters, for same meter mode (burst) the A OEM was able to acquire a 0.003nit reading at much shorter max reading times than the rev B retail, which sometimes fail to read it even at the longest reading of 3sec (rev A would get something usually around 2-2.25s). This was how I was able to find the issues so easily where light space would sometimes disconnect the i1d3 meter in bad reads - the rev B meter I had did it much more often for the same settings.

That test was LS, but I also noticed similar in HCFR.
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post #17 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 03:58 AM
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Hmm, slightly miffed as I bought a new retail rev B just 2 weeks ago having been told there were no differences between the retail and OEM versions. Not that I need the extra luminance headroom currently, thankfully.

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post #18 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Rev A OEM
Rev B Retail
When I had both meters, for same meter mode (burst) the A OEM was able to acquire a 0.003nit reading at much shorter max reading times than the rev B retail, which sometimes fail to read it even at the longest reading of 3sec (rev A would get something usually around 2-2.25s). This was how I was able to find the issues so easily where light space would sometimes disconnect the i1d3 meter in bad reads - the rev B meter I had did it much more often for the same settings.

That test was LS, but I also noticed similar in HCFR.
Just because a meter takes a reading doesn't mean that its correct. Did the A OEM reading look reasonable meaning if it says that you're red deficient did the pattern look cyan? A 3 second read for a 5% grayscale pattern doesn't sound right for a i1d3.
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Just because a meter takes a reading doesn't mean that its correct. Did the A OEM reading look reasonable meaning if it says that you're red deficient did the pattern look cyan? A 3 second read for a 5% grayscale pattern doesn't sound right for a i1d3.
I didn't say 5%...
0.003cd/m2 a would have been the black reading of my JVC projector at the time, with a white point at 56 cd/m2 and around 18,000:1 native contrast. So it would have just looked blackish...(!) (0.003cd/m2 is pretty dark).

I didn't really care much at the time as to the reading quality. It stands to reason that for a given meter the behaviour goes:
no reading -> poor quality readings -> good quality readings.

If the point at which you get no reading has moved, the point at which you transition from poor quality readings to high quality readings will also move (which is more of a concern). The question here (which is risking taking this thread off topic) is why both rev B samples I've seen have been less willing to give any reading for very dark patches than the old rev A I had, and hence you might assume that they would also return worse readings for equivalent reading times.

It is only really of relevance to the original thread as some undisclosed changes - apparently only to OEM models - have been made which extend the top end. Is this at a cost elsewhere? No-one has answered that yet, and I am wondering if the behaviour I've seen in my retail rev B is perhaps an indicator at all...

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Hmm, slightly miffed as I bought a new retail rev B just 2 weeks ago having been told there were no differences between the retail and OEM versions. Not that I need the extra luminance headroom currently, thankfully.
You should have paid a fair bit less for your rev B retail than OEM I guess... so it isn't all bad

I will be intrigued to see where this story ends. In a few days we've gone from Spectracal being the only ones to have an HDR capable meter, to all OEM meters after a certain date having the capability... maybe the story won't end there. Having been involved with OEM'ing and branding in the past, when I look at the meter I see a device which I can't believe the manufacturer would make many "special" changes to for the small OEM market.

(in fact, it has always been the case in the past that the OEM and retail meters were the same minus X-rites annoying licensing stance - why would HDR change this all of a sudden?)
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post #21 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Having been involved with OEM'ing and branding in the past, when I look at the meter I see a device which I can't believe the manufacturer would make many "special" changes to for the small OEM market.
Hush your mouth (or fingers...), that's far too logical a statement to be made on the interwebs!

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post #22 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 08:30 AM
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(in fact, it has always been the case in the past that the OEM and retail meters were the same minus X-rites annoying licensing stance - why would HDR change this all of a sudden?)
We have to remember what the original purpose for this meter was: profiling computer monitors via ICC using X-Rite's bundled software. Along came 3rd-party display calibration software vendors who wanted its speed and accuracy, and who wished to sell a rebranded or lower-cost version. Hence the OEM models were born, restricted from working with X-Rite's software. Now we have large HDR displays making a splash in the home theater arena, but how many HDR-capable computer monitors are there? X-Rite doesn't make software for home theater calibration, but they do for ICC profiling, which currently doesn't require HDR's luminance levels. I think it's not too hard to understand then why higher luminance capability might be on for OEM models, because the majority of these likely will be sold and used primarily for calibrating home theater displays, while it isn't for Retail meters, whose primary intent is ICC profiling. If HDR luminance becomes important to computers, I'd bet X-Rite will simply turn on capability that is already built into the Retail meters and call them Rev D, B+, or some such...
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post #23 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 09:45 AM
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So, uhmmm can someone recommend a place in the US where I can purchase the OEM 2000nit version?
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post #24 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 11:03 AM
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So, uhmmm can someone recommend a place in the US where I can purchase the OEM 2000nit version?
FSI. I emailed both them and Calman. FSI told me all of their stock is '17 and Calman said their i1d3 is a special order item so they don't know what version it would be.

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post #25 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 03:42 PM
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FSI. I emailed both them and Calman. FSI told me all of their stock is '17 and Calman said their i1d3 is a special order item so they don't know what version it would be.

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I only saw the I1D3 offered as a combo with a CR-250 spectro for $7K + on their sales website. Perhaps you can buy it separately but it isn't listed that way...

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post #26 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 04:20 PM
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I only saw the I1D3 offered as a combo with a CR-250 spectro for $7K + on their sales website. Perhaps you can buy it separately but it isn't listed that way...
I don't know if I can link here so go to shopfsi then under Color Management > Color Analyzers and Probes you should find it.
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post #27 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 04:36 PM
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I don't know if I can link here so go to shopfsi then under Color Management > Color Analyzers and Probes you should find it.
That's where I went just before I posted. Three pages of "Color Analyzers and Probes" gear, but the only mention of the OEM (or any) I1D3 was the combo with the CR-250 spectro.

Edit: I just now went back and now the I1D3 appears separately, first item on the first page. Weird. Maybe a page cache in my Chrome install refreshed or something...

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post #28 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 10:06 PM
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Err this shouldn't it matter for projectors right? I got a retail iD3 Pro, for calibrating my Sony VW520ES the only 4K HDR display I have currently.

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post #29 of 117 Old 07-20-2017, 11:46 PM
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Has anyone who has one of these new confirmed HDR meters checked the low light capabilities against the non-HDR variant? Is there any difference in sensitivity?
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post #30 of 117 Old 07-21-2017, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clifak View Post
Hmm. Price isn't favorable to the dollar. I think FSI carries the the OEM version as well. Might be a good place to buy in the US if the have a new version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
If so, where in the US can I purchase one that is 2000nit ready?
Hey guys,

The i1Display PRO OEM which LightIlussion webstore is selling, they are all arrive from USA to any destination.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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