BasICColor DISCUS Owners thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 122 Old 11-27-2019, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. Not sure if HCFR is still being supported, hope it carries-on as an open-source project. I'm looking into P3 for when I upgrade.

I don't mind investing in paid software and the OEM version of the i1D3 but just wanted to know the current state of HCFR.
You are definitely in the wrong thread then...
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post #32 of 122 Old 11-27-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
You are definitely in the wrong thread then...
I understand what you mean but at the same time it's nice to get an overall view of all the software utilities, the Discus and the reputable i1D3 probe.
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post #33 of 122 Old 11-27-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
I understand what you mean but at the same time it's nice to get an overall view of all the software utilities, the Discus and the reputable i1D3 probe.
Well, the only thing relevant to this thread is that HCFR does not support the Discus because the ArgyllCMS driver doesn't support it. Your other question has been discussed in the HCFR thread.
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post #34 of 122 Old 11-27-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Well, the only thing relevant to this thread is that HCFR does not support the Discus because the ArgyllCMS driver doesn't support it. Your other question has been discussed in the HCFR thread.
Yes, sadly that's also the reason why the other free solution, DisplayCAL, doesn't support the Discus either (and Graeme, the author of Argyll, has made it clear that unless someone sends him a free Discus as a gift, not as a loan, Discus support isn't on his roadmap).

So really the only two software that could / should be discussed in this thread are Lightspace and Calman. And in relation to the Discus specifically, performance is better in Lightspace than in Calman as the speed is significantly faster in Lightspace.
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post #35 of 122 Old 11-30-2019, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks. Just to clarify, manual calibration supports all instruments regardless of license, and 3D LUT calibration supports different sets of instruments, depending on license?
The ZRO license support all colorimeters/spectro's LightSpace is capable to operate. Not external pattern generators. But with ZRO you can use PGenerator (without buying LightSpace Connect).

When its coming to paid license levels, there differences between meters supported, for example HTL don't support Klein/JETI/Colorimetry Research/Photo Research/Discus, but its supporting X-Rite and DataColor.

HTP supports all colorimeters/spectro's.

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post #36 of 122 Old 11-30-2019, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
So really the only two software that could / should be discussed in this thread are Lightspace and Calman. And in relation to the Discus specifically, performance is better in Lightspace than in Calman as the speed is significantly faster in Lightspace.
For the users who want to see about what kind of differences in speed/repeatibility Manni is talking, here is the link: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...e-problem.html

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post #37 of 122 Old 03-21-2020, 11:25 AM
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I just bought a used Discus (from 2015 - says the certificate).
I want to use it with my LG B7 OLED and my JVC RS540
having been inspired by Manni's praise for the Discus...
I'm trying it out with an old Calman version (5.6.1).
I don't own a newer version.
My aim is to get good 3dluts for MadVR with the Discus.

As of now, I'm having problems with Calman and the Discus:
When profiling the Discus against my i1pro2,
what "Display Type" do I choose for the Discus in Calman's profiling window?
There is no OLED option of course.
And the test results I get on a simple Grayscale measure with the OLED are not correct:
Using the i1pro2 on it's own, Grayscale and Gamma are fine (the OLED is calibrated with my i1D3/i1pro2 combo).
Using the Discus (profiled to the i1pro in "LCD (LED RGB)" display mode) the Greyscale is completely off:
Red rising from +5 at IRE 10 to almost +40 at IRE 100%. Green falling from 0 to -12.
DeltaEs from 10 to 16 when they where all under 1 (IRE higher than 30) with the i1pro2 measures.

So what do you think?
Is this really a problem with my "Display type" setting and the OLED?

Later I'll also try out the Discus on my JVC RS540.
And maybe also with Lightspace ZRO.
For my Chromapure I'd have to buy an extra meter license (for the Discus),
but since it doesn't support 3dlut creation with madVR that wouldn't work.

Last edited by TimHamburg; 03-21-2020 at 11:31 AM.
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post #38 of 122 Old 03-21-2020, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
I just bought a used Discus (from 2015 - says the certificate).
I want to use it with my LG B7 OLED and my JVC RS540
having been inspired by Manni's praise for the Discus...
I'm trying it out with an old Calman version (5.6.1).
I don't own a newer version.
My aim is to get good 3dluts for MadVR with the Discus.

As of now, I'm having problems with Calman and the Discus:
When profiling the Discus against my i1pro2,
what "Display Type" do I choose for the Discus in Calman's profiling window?
There is no OLED option of course.
And the test results I get on a simple Grayscale measure with the OLED are not correct:
Using the i1pro2 on it's own, Grayscale and Gamma are fine (the OLED is calibrated with my i1D3/i1pro2 combo).
Using the Discus (profiled to the i1pro in "LCD (LED RGB)" display mode) the Greyscale is completely off:
Red rising from +5 at IRE 10 to almost +40 at IRE 100%. Green falling from 0 to -12.
DeltaEs from 10 to 16 when they where all under 1 (IRE higher than 30) with the i1pro2 measures.

So what do you think?
Is this really a problem with my "Display type" setting and the OLED?

Later I'll also try out the Discus on my JVC RS540.
And maybe also with Lightspace ZRO.
For my Chromapure I'd have to buy an extra meter license (for the Discus),
but since it doesn't support 3dlut creation with madVR that wouldn't work.
I don't know about your OLED, but for the JVC the display type selected for the Discus is irrelevant once you have made a profile with the i1pro2, as long as you select the same one.

When I create a profile in CM, I simply select the default display mode in the Discus (can't remember what it is).

Then you select the profile once it's created, to make sure your readings are correct.

If you try to measure black, make sure you only do so shortly after a meter initialisation. The readings drift a lot even after just a few minutes.

If you update the f/w, you will find LCOS profiles that I created a while ago with a JVC (can't remember which one). They are a bit better than any of the other modes, but not as good as a fresh profiles with the i1pro2.

It should work with the JVC. If it does, your issue is OLED specific...

Good luck!

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post #39 of 122 Old 03-21-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I don't know about your OLED, but for the JVC the display type selected for the Discus is irrelevant once you have made a profile with the i1pro2, as long as you select the same one.

When I create a profile in CM, I simply select the default display mode in the Discus (can't remember what it is).

Then you select the profile once it's created, to make sure your readings are correct.

If you try to measure black, make sure you only do so shortly after a meter initialisation. The readings drift a lot even after just a few minutes.

If you update the f/w, you will find LCOS profiles that I created a while ago with a JVC (can't remember which one). They are a bit better than any of the other modes, but not as good as a fresh profiles with the i1pro2.

It should work with the JVC. If it does, your issue is OLED specific...

Good luck!
Thanks, Manni!
This is what my profiling offsets look like and also what the Greyscale looks like with the Discus (and that profiling):

Any comments?

Aah, and by the way:
There is this nice german guy who did the EODIS for Autocal hack which worked very well (for me and others).
Right at the moment he has started to update the hack. One can now use a correction matrix for the EODIS done with a Spectro.
And he is working on a version for the Klein K10-A to work with Autocal.
I just asked him if he would be also interested in implementing support for the Discus also - and he is!
Here is his Website about the hack (in english):
https://autocal.banjobyte.com/?lang=en

After all my troubles with two different Spyder 5s I'd find that really cool to even use a DISCUS to autocal.
He actually could use any info we could give him about the Discus, if possible the SDK.
Do you know anything about that?
He's also asking for suggesting what else to implement into his "Autocal-Addon".
Maybe some of your suggestions to JVC on the Autocal thread (that they might never implement...)
Take a look at his page if you're interested. The old version (for the EODIS) worked really well for me (on Autocal V10).
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post #40 of 122 Old 03-21-2020, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
Thanks, Manni!
This is what my profiling offsets look like and also what the Greyscale looks like with the Discus (and that profiling):

Any comments?

Aah, and by the way:
There is this nice german guy who did the EODIS for Autocal hack which worked very well (for me and others).
Right at the moment he has started to update the hack. One can now use a correction matrix for the EODIS done with a Spectro.
And he is working on a version for the Klein K10-A to work with Autocal.
I just asked him if he would be also interested in implementing support for the Discus also - and he is!
Here is his Website about the hack (in english):
https://autocal.banjobyte.com/?lang=en

After all my troubles with two different Spyder 5s I'd find that really cool to even use a DISCUS to autocal.
He actually could use any info we could give him about the Discus, if possible the SDK.
Do you know anything about that?
He's also asking for suggesting what else to implement into his "Autocal-Addon".
Maybe some of your suggestions to JVC on the Autocal thread (that they might never implement...)
Take a look at his page if you're interested. The old version (for the EODIS) worked really well for me (on Autocal V10).
Hi Tim,

Yes, I posted a link to the i1d3 hack in the JVC Autocal thread earlier today

It would be great if support for the Discus or Klein K10a could be added. Unfortunately I have no info on the SDK.

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post #41 of 122 Old 03-21-2020, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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It has been commented in a few places that the Discus doesn't seem to have filters that track the CIE standard observer very well. For many RGB mixing displays this is OK if you have a spectro to use as a reference, you use the FCMM method to correct the meter and all is good. However this isn't really appropriate for OLED as the OLED has 4 colours with different spectra being used (white spectra isn't the combination of the RGB), which breaks the FCMM model for meter matching (it is designed to match displays where W=R+G+B). So the Discus can be a great meter for a standard display like a JVC projector (I use mine with one) but not a brilliant meter for use with a WRGB OLED as even once corrected you'll have colour matching errors. You can see this by looking particularly at the corrected secondaries vs the spectro secondaries. I think all Discus units are poor matches for CIE observer, but some are really bad.

Having said that, I have friends who have had quite a lot of success with OLEDs with their Discus meters, though I know at least one has moved to Klein now. Probably a better place to get the inside track on that would be the OLED calibration threads on here. But those folk I know with Discus are mostly using LS for the LUT generation.
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post #42 of 122 Old 03-22-2020, 12:50 AM
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Bobof is right. Discus and WOLED don’t work well together, unless you use the Volumetric probe matching of LightSpace. I sold mine for a bargain.

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post #43 of 122 Old 03-22-2020, 11:25 AM
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Thanks for the hints!
I tried the Discus on an LCD Laptop screen.
That went well. A good improvement even with small Lightning LUT.
So my DISCUS seams to be ok.
So next up: the RS540.
I'll post the results...
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post #44 of 122 Old 03-22-2020, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Bobof is right. Discus and WOLED don’t work well together, unless you use the Volumetric probe matching of LightSpace. I sold mine for a bargain.
I just saw your's and Bobof's posts in the "LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread".
As I understand it: I could buy Lightspace/Colourspace HTP (for around a thousand bucks)
and use the method from that thread to make a 3dlut for my LG B7 and then use the 3dlut
in MadVR on my HTPC (since I can't import it into the B7).
And that would give me good results even with the Discus and my OLED.
Is that correct?
Thanks.

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post #45 of 122 Old 03-22-2020, 01:17 PM
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I never used MadVR but I see no problem in your plan.

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post #46 of 122 Old 03-22-2020, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
I just saw your's and Bobof's posts in the "LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread".
As I understand it: I could buy Lightspace/Colourspace HTP (for around a thousand bucks)
and use the method from that thread to make a 3dlut for my LG B7 and then use the 3dlut
in MadVR on my HTPC (since I can't import it into the B7).
And that would give me good results even with the Discus and my OLED.
Is that correct?
Thanks.
The main problem with your plan is that madVR support in Lightspace is appalling.

Make sure you ask for a free trial before spending the money, and that you are getting the expected results.

Unless Light Illusion decide to do something about it, I find it really difficult to recommend Lightspace for madVR users.

I have Lightspace HTP but I'm not using it (or upgrading to Colourpace) until they improve this. Sadly when I last asked I was told that the main issue (the necessity to manually apply a video filter to every single LUT) will never be adressed, so I have little hope to see any progress in this area.

Note that madVR support in Calman was broken a while ago and should be fixed in the next beta.

In the meantime, I use 5.10.0 from June 2019 and it works fine with madVR (at least for my JVC RS2000). I get great results with a Lightning LUT (10 minutes with the Discus trained ot the i1pro2) after a JVC Autocal (15 minutes with the i1pro2 for color and the Spyder X for gamma).

Of course YMMV.

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post #47 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 02:30 AM
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Please note that madVR support in LightSpace is EXACTLY as we intend it to be, and works EXACTLY as designed.
We have many, many madVR users, who gain amazing and highly accurate results.
We work very closely with Mathias as madVR, including support for the upcoming Envy system.

There are no issues at all.

Steve

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post #48 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHamburg View Post
I just saw your's and Bobof's posts in the "LG OLED's 3D LUT Profiling using LightSpace Thread".
As I understand it: I could buy Lightspace/Colourspace HTP (for around a thousand bucks)
and use the method from that thread to make a 3dlut for my LG B7 and then use the 3dlut
in MadVR on my HTPC (since I can't import it into the B7).
And that would give me good results even with the Discus and my OLED.
Is that correct?
Thanks.
Please see: https://www.lightillusion.com/lg.html
The B7 can have LUTs, with the 'Studio' Firmware.
As for access to that...

Steve

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post #49 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Please note that madVR support in LightSpace is EXACTLY as we intend it to be, and works EXACTLY as designed.
We have many, many madVR users, who gain amazing and highly accurate results.
We work very closely with Mathias as madVR, including support for the upcoming Envy system.

There are no issues at all.

Steve
The issues have been reported many times and ignored just as many times:

- Impossibility to enable/disable the madVR LUT for verification without manually disconnecting the patterns, enabling/disabling the LUT in madTPG, reconnecting the patterns, all of this manually. This is impossible to do with the Envy as you don't have access to madTPG.
- The software is unable to detect madTPG/Envy, so you have to specify the IP address manually every single time you connect the patterns. The software doesn't remember it, even in the same session.
- Having to manually apply one of four filters to each and every generated LUT, before uploading said LUT manually to each madVR slot.
- Impossibility to specify which filter to apply, and have it applied automatically to every LUT generated


In Calman, you specify video levels or PC levels, and that's remembered between each session as it's workflow specific.
MadTPG or the Envy is detected automatically. The IP address is remembered between each session, both for the source and the display.
You enable or disable a LUT by checking a single checkbox in Calman
Each LUT is uploaded automatically to the correct slot after profiling, without having to apply a filter manually to every single LUT

I don't know who your happy madVR users are. I certainly don't trust them to report a bug or to verify results. If they are happy with the current implementation, they are either incompetent or masochistic, or they are not aware of how it's done in other calibration software (much better).

The last time I tried to generate a LUT in Lightspace a few weeks ago, I wasn't even able to get a usable result, and I have done it many times before.

Lightspace implementation of madVR has not improved in years. It was acceptable as a kind of placeholder at the time, plus for some reason the manual filter wasn't necessary then, which made it more bearable.

It is so clunky now that it is barely usable, and given the number of manual manipulations, it is also error-prone.

It is your choice to not spend any time improving this as you've clearly stated many times, it is also my right to not recommend it at this stage for madVR users, and to explain the objective reasons why I don't.

I hope that at some point Light Illusion will improve its madVR/Envy support. Lightspace is a great tool, sadly its madVR support is simply appalling compared to the competition.

I wish you were a madVR user yourself, or had someone in house using madVR. It's clearly not the case.

Hopefully this will change with Envy, but given that you're convinced madVR support is perfect as it is I see little hope that it will change, except for the enabling/disabling of the LUT, as you'll have to do something about that if you want to support the Envy properly.

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post #50 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 03:29 AM
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To reiterate - madVR support in LightSpace is EXACTLY as we intend it to be, and works EXACTLY as designed.

Steve

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post #51 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
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To reiterate - madVR support in LightSpace is EXACTLY as we intend it to be, and works EXACTLY as designed.

Steve
To reiterate: madVR support in Lightspace is appalling IMO, it does work as designed if you are masochistic and like to spend a lot more time than necessary calibrating, but the design is poor compared to the competition (clunky, error-prone, not user-friendly), and this is why I don't recommend Lightspace at this stage to madVR/Envy users.

I will be happy to reconsider when and if improvements are implemented, as the tool can produce excellent results if you get it to work and jump through all the hoops.

If there are no issues at all, I'm sure you won't have any problem providing a free trial to prospective users, so they can make up their mind *before* purchasing the product.

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post #52 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 03:57 AM
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There are no issues.
Everything works exactly as it is designed to do.
And that includes the calibration workflow, which is exactly as it is supposed to be.
There are no 'error prone' issues.
The gui, and hence workflow, as exactly as they are designed to be.
Obviously, the ColourSpace GUI is very different, and hence has a different workflow.
That will make it very different in operation - but is not something that can be back-fitted to LightSpace.
And there will most definitely NOT be changes to LUT scale options.
Users must be allowed to make their own choices as to any LUT scale to be applied.
(And hopefully, madVR will stop using a forced video scale, even when using a data range image path - that is an error.)

Steve

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post #53 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
There are no issues.
Everything works exactly as it is designed to do.
And that includes the calibration workflow, which is exactly as it is supposed to be.
There are no 'error prone' issues.
The gui, and hence workflow, as exactly as they are designed to be.
Obviously, the ColourSpace GUI is very different, and hence has a different workflow.
That will make it very different in operation - but is not something that can be back-fitted to LightSpace.
And there will most definitely NOT be changes to LUT scale options.
Users must be allowed to make their own choices as to any LUT scale to be applied.
(And hopefully, madVR will stop using a forced video scale, even when using a data range image path - that is an error.)

Steve
The problem with Lightspace is how Light Illusion doesn't listen to feedback.

You can repeat it's perfect until you get blue in the face, it won't change the usability issues I have listed above, which do exist in Lightspace and are not present in the competition.

When I contacted you to ask if madVR support will be improved in Colourspace, you said that you were not willing to make any commitment, so we called off any upgrade.

I have explained to you that my problem was not only that users had to find which of the four filters they had to apply, it is that they have to apply it manually to every single LUT generated.

I find it easier to specify once and for all if I use video levels or PC levels than to have to manually apply to every single LUT I create the same video filter, as it will never change. This is poor design and error-prone, as the LUT is not valid if the filter is not applied.

This is the main issue: Lightspace is happy to generate invalid LUTs for madVR. As explained many times, including by @madshi himself, madVR only accepts video levels LUTs. Lightspace is happy to create invalid LUTs, hence why a filter is needed.

If, like other software (including Calman or DisplayCAL), Lightspace was following the madVR specs, there would be no need to apply a filter manually to each LUT generated.

Anyway, this is the wrong thread to discuss this. I have already reported all this in the Lightspace thread, and you have dismissed it there as you are dismissing it here.

The only thing that is relevant in this thread is that if someone is considering Lightspace because they are a Discus user (which is valid as the Discus is faster in Lightspace than in Calman), they should make sure they request a free trial if they are a madVR user as well, because they need to see if they can live with the clunky madVR implementation in Lightspace, especially if, as a Calman user, they have been used to a much better implementation.

That was my only point (I didn't say don't buy Lightspace, I said try it first because I don't recommend it to madVR users).

So hopefully you can agree to provide said free trial as you are confident in your product, and we can go back to a more on-topic discussion

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
JVC Macro feature on Vertex/Vertex2/Integral2/Maestro/Diva

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At no point have we ever said LightSpace is perfect.
But it works exactly as it is designed to do.
And we most definitely do listen to valid user feedback, and react accordingly.
But we do not listen to invalid feedback, especially from those that do not actually understand the defined workflows.

And as has been stated time and again, users must be left to apply any LUT scale they want.
There is no one fixed solution, but some people seem to lack the understanding behind that.

Steve

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post #55 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
At no point have we ever said LightSpace is perfect.
But it works exactly as it is designed to do.
And we most definitely do listen to valid user feedback, and react accordingly.
But we do not listen to invalid feedback, especially from those that do not actually understand the defined workflows.

And as has been stated time and again, users must be left to apply any LUT scale they want.
There is no one fixed solution, but some people seem to lack the understanding behind that.

Steve
For the sake of the thread, I will leave it there. The relevant information was posted, people will make up their own mind (apparently without a free trial).

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
JVC Macro feature on Vertex/Vertex2/Integral2/Maestro/Diva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
For the sake of the thread, I will leave it there. The relevant information was posted, people will make up their own mind (apparently without a free trial).
Thank you, Manni,
for your detailed argumentation how complicated Lightspace for madvr 3dlut is in your experience!
I will not spend about a thousand bucks for that (since madvr 3dlut would be the only thing that I could do with Lightspace, that I couldn't do with Chromapure already. But Chrompure doesn't support madvr nad maybe won't.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
At no point have we ever said LightSpace is perfect.
But it works exactly as it is designed to do.
And we most definitely do listen to valid user feedback, and react accordingly.
But we do not listen to invalid feedback, especially from those that do not actually understand the defined workflows.

And as has been stated time and again, users must be left to apply any LUT scale they want.
There is no one fixed solution, but some people seem to lack the understanding behind that.

Steve
Sorry Steve, but replying to detailed feedback from a very experienced user (which a company like Light Illusion might be thankful for) with sentences like "There are no issues" doesn't win my trust in your product.
If you don't want to reply to Manni's detailed analysis of what's not working for him in Lightspace' s madvr implementation then you won't win me as a customer for your product anytime soon.
I guess this should be enough "valid feedback" about your communication behaviour.
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You might want to search the various threads where the same 'info' has been posted repeatedly, and check out the responses form other madVR/LightSpace users.
You will see the truth of the situation.

We have replied repeatedly, and have basically given up trying to explain the truth.
Some people just will not listen.

And LightSpace HTL is nowhere near a thousand bucks...
Where do you get that figure from?

Steve

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post #58 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Bobof is right. Discus and WOLED don’t work well together, unless you use the Volumetric probe matching of LightSpace. I sold mine for a bargain.
Hi Miki et al.,
I'm sure you also tried to use the Discus with your OLED in Calman.
What were your results?
I keep getting something like this:


The x and y values are almost completely identical...
I only have the old Calman version 5.6.1. Does it have anything to do with that? Newer versions maybe being more compatible to OLEDs?
Are there any settings that I could change?
I did profile the Discus to my i1pro2 and use "High Average and Long Integration".
I also put the Discus on a tripod and tested for a position that would give me the highest brighness.
I believe it must be possible to at least get some kind of Greyscale readings...

Any hints are very much appreciated!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
You might want to search the various threads where the same 'info' has been posted repeatedly, and check out the responses form other madVR/LightSpace users.
You will see the truth of the situation.

We have replied repeatedly, and have basically given up trying to explain the truth.
Some people just will not listen.

And LightSpace HTL is nowhere near a thousand bucks...
Where do you get that figure from?

Steve
I actually have found only posts where you reacted almost the same as you did here when answering to
detailed feedback by one of your customers.
It's my believe that any feedback by a customer is "valid feedback". It's just a question of how you handle it
and I don't think you handled that in a correct manner.


I need a calibration software that gives me the ability to make 3dluts for madvr with a Basiccolor Discus.
Can Lightspace HTL do that?
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post #60 of 122 Old 03-23-2020, 01:14 PM
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I think you need to look for the responses from other madVR/LightSpace users.
My responses will have been the same, to the same repeated inaccurate statements.
No reason to change responses, as the truth doesn't change.

But no, HTL will not support the Discus - sorry, forgot that was the original discussion point of this thread, as things went well off-axis again. I assumed i1D3. My mistake.

Steve

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