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post #61 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 12:42 AM
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My 2017 rev b retail also can’t measure under 0,008. The rev a (retail/oem) and rev b oem can measure until 0,003 with sync mode on.

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post #62 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 01:04 AM
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The two rev B retail meters I've seen have both been significantly worse at reading dark than the rev A OEM's I've had. I might pick up a rev B OEM at some point.
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post #63 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 01:48 AM
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My OEM rev B2 couldn't read 0,003/0,004 nits it returned always Y 0,0000 x 0,333 y 0,333 which means "I can't read"
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post #64 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 02:14 AM
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Did you used sync mode on with llh 5s?

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post #65 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 03:07 AM
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With sync mode on it gave me error readings. I used Auto.

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post #66 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 03:27 AM
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Yes for black try with sync mode on the steps between 0,002 and 0,008 which you can‘t read with auto.

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post #67 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 04:10 AM
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My kuro black is 0,003 and I sold the i1D3 for a Discus which is more accurate in low light readings. Slower but better, just like italians lol

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post #68 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
If I create a CCSS for my LG OLED (or my Dell U2713H) is it possible to check the accuracy of it before sharing?

Maybe with ArgyllCMS tool specplot to get XYZ coordinates of WRGB and a spectral power distribution vs wavelength plot. You can also plot spectral power distributions vs wavelength in a spreadsheet (which can be "gain" manipulated afterwards in an easy way).


IMHO it would be wiser to make a CCSS at native gamut. It's easy with U2713H: just Custom color or Standard mode. With a widegamut TV may be not o easy since a lot of modes will rely in some kind of gamut emulation to limit gamut to Rec709 or P3.... it's easy to spot if that happens: specplot or spreadsheet plot will show a channel or two (R,G) as a linear combination of true native gamut SPD channels.
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post #69 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicent View Post
Maybe with ArgyllCMS tool specplot to get XYZ coordinates of WRGB and a spectral power distribution vs wavelength plot. You can also plot spectral power distributions vs wavelength in a spreadsheet (which can be "gain" manipulated afterwards in an easy way).


IMHO it would be wiser to make a CCSS at native gamut. It's easy with U2713H: just Custom color or Standard mode. With a widegamut TV may be not o easy since a lot of modes will rely in some kind of gamut emulation to limit gamut to Rec709 or P3.... it's easy to spot if that happens: specplot or spreadsheet plot will show a channel or two (R,G) as a linear combination of true native gamut SPD channels.
1. I have to learn how to read the plots.

2. I already mentioned that I would create a CCSS at native gamut as learned from Ted. Native gamut with LG OLED C8 you get in the ISF- or Technicolor-Mode, Expert Controls, Color Gamut "WIDE".

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post #70 of 97 Old 11-10-2018, 06:00 AM
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For investigation:



LG OLED 65C8 CCSS:
Created with i1PRO2 (Argyll HiRes, 110 fields), native Gamut, 109 nits white level.


Upload as ZIP because CCSS is not allowed.


Edit: First version with incorrect order of rows (RGBW, created by HCFR). No problem for ArgyllCMS but for specplot-tool. Corrected version WRGB uploaded.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 2018-11-12_LGOLED65C8_i1PRO2(HiRes)_WRGB.zip (2.6 KB, 8 views)

Warm regards,
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Last edited by bejoro; 11-12-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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post #71 of 97 Old 11-11-2018, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
For investigation:



LG OLED 65C8 CCSS:
Created with i1PRO2 (Argyll HiRes, 110 fields), native Gamut, 109 nits white level.


Upload as ZIP because CCSS is not allowed.

Seems fine. Thank you for uploading. Order in your sample is RGBW, so when you use argyll's specplot color in SPD plot are "wrong" but is trivial to spot channels. Specplot also prints coordinates for RGBW so you can see xy gamut, etc.
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post #72 of 97 Old 11-11-2018, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicent View Post
Seems fine. Thank you for uploading. Order in your sample is RGBW, so when you use argyll's specplot color in SPD plot are "wrong" but is trivial to spot channels. Specplot also prints coordinates for RGBW so you can see xy gamut, etc.
Vincent, thanks.I used HCFR. Is the wrong order a problem for the usage with ArgyllCMS (HCFR, DisplayCal)?
Is a correction necessary? Should I repeat the procedure using DisplayCal? Thanks again.

Warm regards,
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Last edited by bejoro; 11-11-2018 at 04:06 AM.
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post #73 of 97 Old 11-11-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
Vincent, thanks.I used HCFR. Is the wrong order a problem for the usage with ArgyllCMS (HCFR, DisplayCal)?
Is a correction necessary? Should I repeat the procedure using DisplayCal? Thanks again.

AFAIK your CCSS it's OK. I've just explained that colors for each line if you plot it with "specplot" won't match the channel.
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post #74 of 97 Old 11-12-2018, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
For investigation:

LG OLED 65C8 CCSS:
Created with i1PRO2 (Argyll HiRes, 110 fields), native Gamut, 109 nits white level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicent View Post
AFAIK your CCSS it's OK. I've just explained that colors for each line if you plot it with "specplot" won't match the channel.
Hi Bejoro,

Vicent is talking about this to your plot:



The Blue line represent your White SPD measurement.

The Black line represent your Red Primary SPD measurement.

The Red line represent your Green Primary SPD measurement.

The Green line represent your Blue Primary SPD measurement.

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post #75 of 97 Old 11-12-2018, 04:44 AM
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Thank you Ted. I used HCFR to create the CCSS.

So the 4 rows in the file are arranged as RGBW (1 = R, 2 = G, 3 = B, 4 = W). As far as I could research in DisplayCal forum that should not be a problem for ArgyllCMS.

To get the plot right and the usual order I would only have to rearrange the rows to WRGB (1 = W, 2 = R, 3 = G, 4 = B) and renumber it again?

I would like to make this correctly because you will never know who shares this file again and again and to prevent confusion.


Uploaded the corrected version with WRGB order, correct for ArgyllCMS's specplot.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 2018-11-12_LGOLED65C8_i1PRO2(HiRes)_WRGB.zip (2.6 KB, 7 views)

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Last edited by bejoro; 11-12-2018 at 05:01 AM.
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post #76 of 97 Old 11-12-2018, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoro View Post
Thank you Ted. I used HCFR to create the CCSS.

So the 4 rows in the file are arranged as RGBW (1 = R, 2 = G, 3 = B, 4 = W). As far as I could research in DisplayCal forum that should not be a problem for ArgyllCMS.

To get the plot right and the usual order I would only have to rearrange the rows to WRGB (1 = W, 2 = R, 3 = G, 4 = B) and renumber it again?

I would like to make this correctly because you will never know who shares this file again and again and to prevent confusion.
If you re-arrange, plot again and see the colors displayed as I posted, then they will look correct visually to a new plot you will generate.

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post #77 of 97 Old 11-12-2018, 04:59 AM
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I have corrected the CCSS file (correct order of rows WRGB), tested it (thank you Ted) and uploaded it to both posts.

Warm regards,
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post #78 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 10:23 AM
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Hello everybody,

did someone / could someone compare the i1 pro2 with argyll driver and High Res mode (3,3nm) to a higher end spectro (5nm or better).
Most people here with high end gear still have a backup/old i1 pro2 around.

That would be great if you could take the time to compare.

Especially interesting would be to measure laser projectors such as those with very spiky blue spectrum:


JVC DLA-Z1



Epson EH-LS10000



Optoma UHZ65



Sony VW760es



@ARROW-AV maybe?

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post #79 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
That would be great if you could take the time to compare.

Especially interesting would be to measure laser projectors such as those with very spiky blue spectrum:

Epson EH-LS10000

I was also interested in this question, never got much of a useful answer from anyone. I did just obtain a used Jeti 1201 and have a friend now with LS10000; if I get a chance to get to his place I will try and compare the two.

For what it is worth I'm not sure how much difference it really makes. Jeti have a published whitepaper on laser projection measurement; even for RGB laser units it appears the theoretical difference from <=5 to 10nm is <1dE.
https://www.jeti.com/cms/images/jeti...otes/an_27.pdf
And that is 3xlasers. For all the PJ you showed they're RG phosphor and B laser, so I guess the problem part of the spectrum is even smaller (and because it is blue, probably much less significant than if it was green). So I'm guessing it is not even as significant as in the Jeti paper.

I'm not sure how this all stacks up. Jeti spec for their devices is "only" x,y +/- 0.002 at Illuminant A. That is up to 2dE2000 at Illuminant A. If it is also +/- 0.002 at D65 that would be something like 11dE2000 for D65 white being max possible (that sounds crazy).

It seems to me that by comparison the limitations of the device accuracy itself are perhaps more of a big deal than the theoretical issues of 10nm vs 5-4.5nm vs "3.3nm" vs 2nm.
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post #80 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
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I was also interested in this question, never got much of a useful answer from anyone. I did just obtain a used Jeti 1201 and have a friend now with LS10000; if I get a chance to get to his place I will try and compare the two.
Great.
Well I have an Epson ls10000 myself but nobody around with an expensive spectrometer.

However, I did compare calibrating the Epson EH-ls10000 with and without high res mode with my i1 pro2.
My experience is that the high res made quite the difference and had visually significantly improved the calibration result on the screen.

Basically, without high res mode, it will tell you that the white has more blue than it really does.
If you correct it according to the reading, you may end up with a green/red push on the screen while the i1pro2 10nm without high res give you excellent deltaE.

Without high res mode to calibrate dci-p3 d65 (digital cinema), I had to calibrate and touch the controls much more than in high res.

In high res, basically it's directly almost perfect out of the box matching dci-p3 d65 for all undersaturations.
From what I have read witg measurements performed with higher end spectro, this should be more like that...

So right now, i1 pro2 with high res mode made a very good impression for such spiky spectrum.

Confirmation against referenced
Certified spectro would be really interesting.

:-)
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post #81 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Great.
Well I have an Epson ls10000 myself but nobody around with an expensive spectrometer.

However, I did compare calibrating the Epson EH-ls10000 with and without high res mode.
My experience is that the high res made quite the difference and had visually significantly improved the calibration result on the screen.

Basically, without high res mode, it will tell you that the white has more blue than it really does.
If you correct it according to the reading, you may end up with a green/red push on the screen while the i1pro2 10nm without high res give you excellent deltaE.

Without high res mode to calibrate dci-p3 d65 (digital cinema), I had to calibrate and touch the controls much more than in high res.

In high res, basically it's directly almost perfect out of the box matching dci-p3 d65 for all undersaturations.
From what I have read witg measurements performed with higher end spectro, this should be more like that.

So right now, i1 pro2 with high res mode made a very good impression for such spiky spectrum.

Confirmation against referenced
Certified spectro would be really interesting.

:-)
I guess you're just using it for generating the four colour correction matrix for your i1d3 though, right?
What are the RGBW values you get for 10nm vs "3.3nm" mode?
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post #82 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 11:09 AM
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I guess you're just using it for generating the four colour correction matrix for your i1d3 though, right?
What are the RGBW values you get for 10nm vs "3.3nm" mode?
Of course. Only used for the correction matrix.
I will check the value and post them here.
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post #83 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Hello everybody,

did someone / could someone compare the i1 pro2 with argyll driver and High Res mode (3,3nm) to a higher end spectro (5nm or better).
Most people here with high end gear still have a backup/old i1 pro2 around.

That would be great if you could take the time to compare.

Especially interesting would be to measure laser projectors such as those with very spiky blue spectrum:

Since those SPD are multiplied by each "observer" curve and since each of these observer curves have an height and a slope which is a function of wavelength, there are wavelengths where 10-3-1nm is more important than others.
If you wish to get a "visual preview" of the potential sources of measurement error thenn they should be easier to spot in SPD*xbar, ybar and zbar, not SPD alone.

(but yes, blue very narrow spikes + z-bar height and fast slopes look like the perfect storm)
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post #84 of 97 Old 11-18-2018, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicent View Post
Since those SPD are multiplied by each "observer" curve and since each of these observer curves have an height and a slope which is a function of wavelength, there are wavelengths where 10-3-1nm is more important than others.
Yes.

Also note that one of the problems with displays that have very narrow primaries, is that for the same reasons that instrument spectral weighting accuracy becomes more critical, so too does the problem of observer to observer variation. Individuals have spectral sensitivities that are not identical to the 1931 2 degree standard observer, and so calibrating to that observer will becomes less effective with narrow primary displays.

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Would the use of another observer be a solution or, at least, an effective palliative?

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post #86 of 97 Old 11-19-2018, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
Would the use of another observer be a solution or, at least, an effective palliative?
Sure - the results will be perfect if you use the CMF's of the person you are calibrating the display for

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post #87 of 97 Old 11-19-2018, 06:01 AM
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lol someone could take you seriously and provide a new service: "Personal White Point customization: we provide unique WP balance built upon a deep study of the metameric failure of any and each of our customers TV/display. There will be no more Director's intent, there'll be only your intent!"

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post #88 of 97 Old 11-19-2018, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Anger.miki View Post
lol someone could take you seriously and provide a new service: "Personal White Point customization: we provide unique WP balance built upon a deep study of the metameric failure of any and each of our customers TV/display. There will be no more Director's intent, there'll be only your intent!"
I wonder how much the 17 test subjects in the 1920 Wright-Guild colour matching experiments knew about Director’s intent

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 11-19-2018 at 07:25 AM.
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That was the standard being defined upon which Directors base their intent &#x1f604;
instead I wonder if some directors really have an intent &#x1f609;

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post #90 of 97 Old 11-19-2018, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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That was the standard being defined upon which Directors base their intent &#x1f604;
instead I wonder if some directors really have an intent &#x1f609;
That would only be true if the director/colorist used the same display as you're using. The issue being discussed is that the "standard" CMF does not work properly with some narrow spectrum displays.
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