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post #1 of 22 Old 01-06-2018, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Education resources and documentation?

I enjoy learning about calibration more and more. However as I get more experience, the more I feel overwhelmed. Resources and documentation are harder to find. I do try to do searches for questions I have. Sometimes I find what I'm looking for. Other times I discover through experimentation.

I recently added a C6 HDR2000 to my arsenal and I thought it might improve my experience over my i1D3. I know they are basically the same, but with the C6 is customized by Spectracal. I thought the i1D3 was off, but after getting nearly identical results with my new C6, I'm not sure what is what.

The C6 was NIST certified Nov of 2017. My display is a Vizio P65-C1, which is a LED(Blue Green) display. Using the spectracal meter profile, I set my backlight to achieve a 100% luminance reading of 110cd/m². I also have an i1 Pro2 spectro NIST certified July of 2017. When I try to create an offset profile for my C6, using the LCD(LED) meter mode, the luminance reading is over 10cd/m² higher than the C6. Spectracal's spectro profile was around a 1cd/m² difference.

When I use Direct View meter mode for profiling, both meters are less than 1cd/me difference, so my offset is not very large. I was always under the impression that I needed to use LCD(LED) over Direct View, but I can't find any information on this.

This brings me to my next topic. I have read many different topics on meter read distance. I have read some documentation that the meter direct contact. I have also read and have been suggested to use distance measurements. I can't find much as far as definitive documents or information on which method should be used for different situations.

Lastly my new C6 meter has different exposure mode settings than my i1D3. It has more sample options, but there is also 0.2 Fixed / 0.5 Fixed / 1.0 Fixed / 1.5 Fixed / 2.0 Fixed. I'm trying to better understand the options and how/when to apply them.

Thanks guys.

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post #2 of 22 Old 01-07-2018, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
I also have an i1 Pro2 spectro NIST certified July of 2017.
Hi, have you bought your i1PRO2 from SpectraCAL? (called Enhanced)

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-07-2018, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
This brings me to my next topic. I have read many different topics on meter read distance. I have read some documentation that the meter direct contact. I have also read and have been suggested to use distance measurements. I can't find much as far as definitive documents or information on which method should be used for different situations.
Mounting the i1Display PRO/C6 (it's a branded OEM i1Display PRO) or i1PRO1/2 to an any display is not a good idea, it's better to use the tripod mount and take only non-contact measurements.

If such contact devices are used, it can be important to assure that they are touching the screen lightly enough to avoid any changes in the measurement results from mechanical contact. i1PRO's are heavy for contact measurements, you have a very small FOV when they measure in contact mode.

EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors) recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method.

If you have 10cm distance (or larger) from the panel it will be good, we don't need the panel to transfer it's heat to the meter.

Meters will require to be connected/powered from their USB plug for about 20-30 minutes before starting any measurement. The exact time depends from the temperature conditions. It can be longer if the device came from outside in winter time and will be shorter if stored at room temperature.

Usually users confuse warmup procedure and leave the meter on-contact with the display panel to become warmer from display's panel heat, which is a bad idea.

The meter must be at the room temperature, when the meter has stable temperature it will provide stable readings over the time, heat is not good for the sensors, when the meter is becoming warm, more noise is added to the sensor and this reduce the instrument S/N ratio.

Light emitted from displays is a electromagnetic radiation which will alter the temperature of the detection system of a meter, so the sensors themselves will heat up, one reason why meters like i1PRO1/2 require dark readings; to lower the drift caused by heat.

i1PRO2 has better thermal isolation due to its aluminum at the side. i1Display PRO using robust filters against prolonged exposure to heat.

basICColor DISCUS has aluminum unibody for added robustness and thermal stability and also features internal thermal compensating circuitry which will ensure that changes in the physical temperature around the device will not influence measurement results.

Konica-Minolta CS-2000 features a peltier thermo-electric cooling system to reduce dark current and improve S/N ratio.

If you check JETI, PhotoResearch,Minolta, reference meters, none of them is measuring in contact mode.

Hi-end spectro's with 1/2° can't measure in contact mode without specific accessory attached.

For example Minolta CS-2000A min. measuring meter placement distance is 35cm (or 5,5 cm when using close-up lens).

Photoresearch PR-680 needs 10 foot (3.05 m) long probe designed for contact measurements of luminance to provide 13.2 mm measuring area.

For example, my Klein K-10A without any accessory attached, with 10cm distance from the panel it measures an area of 5cm (FOV), to measure the same area with my JETI 1211, I have to place it with 161cm from the panel.

JETI 1211 has 1.8° FOV and is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.

SMPTE recommends to take readings from the viewing position, but that's is not possible for the consumer probes, you need an instrument with ~2.0° field of view.

Also there some published documents that suggesting to measure about 100 pixels minimum for display calibration which is not possible for some meter in contact mode.

A high-end spectro with a viewing optics (like PhotoResearch or Minolta) or with laser aiming (like JETI) with narrow viewing angle for this job.

As you can see from the following Chart (created by <^..^>Smokey Joe), the JETI (1.8°) is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.



Each meter's optics have its' own FOV (Field of View), 2 meters with the same distance from the screen, they see different area of pixels.

If someone has both meters (i1DisplayPRO - i1PRO1/2) and he want to match the meters measuring pixel area (FOV), for an area of pixels of 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 need to have 17,8cm distance from the screen and the i1DisplayPRO to have 13,6cm distance from the screen. You can do the calculations for different distances from your screen.

FOV is important for displays that have uniformity issues, so it's better to measure the same spot when you do your meter profiling.

You can find a lot of details about your X-Rite instruments here. (+ tips for meter correction table creation)
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-07-2018, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, have you bought your i1PRO2 from SpectraCAL? (called Enhanced)
Thank you for all the information so far. By far the most elaborate and detailed I have seen on the matter.

Yes it is the SpectraCAL enhanced version from July 2017 This is why I'm confused. Both my new C6 HDR2000 and my 2016 i1D3(both using LED BG) read identical non-profiled luminance from my Vizio P65. My i1 Pro 2 reads over 10nits higher using LCD LED meter mode. I warmed up everything for 1 hour. I tripod mount all meters. Based on your previous recommendation, I used 7" distance for the i1 Pro2 and 5+3/8" distance for both colorimeters. I want to create an offset profile, but I'm afraid either I am doing something wrong or if there might be an issue with my i1 Pro2. All read positions centered on the screen.Is it normal to have that large of a difference? Since my C6 calibration tables are less than 2 months old, this is why I'm confused.

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-08-2018, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by skschatzman View Post
Thank you for all the information so far. By far the most elaborate and detailed I have seen on the matter.

Yes it is the SpectraCAL enhanced version from July 2017 This is why I'm confused. Both my new C6 HDR2000 and my 2016 i1D3(both using LED BG) read identical non-profiled luminance from my Vizio P65. My i1 Pro 2 reads over 10nits higher using LCD LED meter mode. I warmed up everything for 1 hour. I tripod mount all meters. Based on your previous recommendation, I used 7" distance for the i1 Pro2 and 5+3/8" distance for both colorimeters. I want to create an offset profile, but I'm afraid either I am doing something wrong or if there might be an issue with my i1 Pro2. All read positions centered on the screen.Is it normal to have that large of a difference? Since my C6 calibration tables are less than 2 months old, this is why I'm confused.

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The Meter Type menu of CalMAN is basically useless for spectro's and it's confusing the users, all that long meter table list is just for cosmetic reasons all these years for i1PRO1/2, it will be simpler for these spectro users if there only 2 modes: luminance / illuminance...for the spectro's that are capable for both.

For i1PRO1/2, it doesn't matter what display type you will select, except:

1) If you need to take Illuminance readings (labeled as Facing Projector options) where you will have to attach your i1PRO1/2 diffuser for that.

2) In case that you have bought your i1PRO1/2 from SpectraCAL ''called as i1PRO1/2 Enhanced' which is a WRGB matrix offset for White-LED which can increase the performance of the meter when you will need to measure a White LED backlight based display....if it helps or not, it's unknown. There so much different White-LED spectra's, many panel variations year-per-year, brand/model etc...

This LED table can't be stored inside the meters memory, you will have to load it the first time you connect the meter with CalMAN, it's stored at SpectraCAL's server. There is a button to download that table. In that case; the selection of LED display from target display type will affect the measuring, all other display selection are not affecting the readings.

If I had your meter, I should use only the table default table of i1PRO2 it's coming calibrated from X-Rite, no any other offset, because I trust better what exact the meter can read measuring that specific display you are measuring.

It's normal to have difference in reported luminance between meters, I see difference with all the meters I have used, for example during meter profiling of LG OLED, my JETI 1211 reports 648 nits and my Klein K-10A 594 nits.

After your meter profiling, any of your colorimeter with the added 3x3 XYZ table from CalMAN, it will report the same luminance as your i1PRO2 is reporting.

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post #6 of 22 Old 01-08-2018, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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So you are saying don't download the enhanced tables and just use the default tables? I already downloaded the enhanced tables, so how do I delete them?

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post #7 of 22 Old 01-08-2018, 06:34 AM
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So you are saying don't download the enhanced tables and just use the default tables? I already downloaded the enhanced tables, so how do I delete them?

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There no need to delete any table, just select other mode from LED, all these mode are cosmetic as I posted above, the are not affecting the reading of a spectro. (except the LED table for your meter).

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post #8 of 22 Old 01-08-2018, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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There no need to delete any table, just select other mode from LED, all these mode are cosmetic as I posted above, the are not affecting the reading of a spectro. (except the LED table for your meter).
Ok perfect, so using "Direct View" then. Thank you.

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post #9 of 22 Old 01-08-2018, 09:04 AM
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Ok perfect, so using "Direct View" then. Thank you.
If you like to see what difference the LED table it makes, open the Quick Analysis workflow of CalMAN and go to the SPD (Spectral Power Distribution Measurement) layout page, there measure with direct view and then with LED table, and post the SPD graphs here.

Before posting, look both SPD chart to have the same axis (not auto, select fixed or custom, and set the save values to both charts, to be able to compare better the results)

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post #10 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 12:09 PM
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Great information Ted. So how does the LightSpace CMS software(ZRO version) handle the i1pro, from what you're saying it seems like any Calman version is just messing up on everything with this meter.

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post #11 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 01:23 PM
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Great information Ted. So how does the LightSpace CMS software(ZRO version) handle the i1pro, from what you're saying it seems like any Calman version is just messing up on everything with this meter.
When you have a normal i1PRO1/2 from X-Rite, in LightSpace there no any display type mode (as its not required...since its spectro) while in CalMAN you have a list of 20 display types which basically don't do anything and they are there for cosmetic reasons (expect the one which say facing the projector is different as its for taking measurements with diffuser)

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post #12 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 01:31 PM
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okay thanks Ted. I'm just in the middle of playing around with the ZRO software, not as user friendly as I thought it might be, as it's layout etc is totally different from Calmans. I suppose just more time playing with it is going to be needed. For example on Calman to do the greyscale it shows all the bars for each greyscale %(10/20/30 etc) where as LS only shows one at a time, and it doesn't show the which % greyscale is being tested, or am I missing something?

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post #13 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 01:53 PM
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okay thanks Ted. I'm just in the middle of playing around with the ZRO software, not as user friendly as I thought it might be, as it's layout etc is totally different from Calmans. I suppose just more time playing with it is going to be needed. For example on Calman to do the greyscale it shows all the bars for each greyscale %(10/20/30 etc) where as LS only shows one at a time, and it doesn't show the which % greyscale is being tested, or am I missing something?
ColourSpace will be more flexible with manualcal.

With LightSpace, tick to link all sliders, tick perfectages and use keyboard arrow keys to change between grayscale steps.



LightSpace is software for display profiling, where no manual cal required, only basic pre-cal required, as doing RGB balance of 100% white, finding widest gamut settings of the display and checking what mode/settings disable the most internal processing of the display, as everything related with color it will be managed from the generate colorspace correction 3D LUT table. (post-production monitors don't have parametric calibration controls as the one you can find to consumer displays, usually they have only 1 or 2-Point RGB balance and no CMS controls.

Also when you perform a calibration, its better idea to measure all grayscale steps, for example if you have a display with 10-Point RGB balance controls, its better to measure always 21-Point grayscale (with any display OSD closed), then to watch the charts...open display OSD menus and apply the adjustments you believe they will reduce the errors...and then re-measure the whole grayscale again.

This is better approach from doing point-to-point calibration trying random adjustments, as the display calibration points can be not align with patterns you display, so while your numbers will be OK, when you will watch a grayscale ramp, you may see banding and dis-coloration, as random adjustments per adjustment point can leave you out-of-bits or the complexity of diff. adjustments per calibration point to introduce distortions.

When you perform the way I describe, you reduce values with more uniform way, so your adjustments from step-to-step per each calibration controls are more linear and smoother, so the gradation later will be better also.

You can read LightSpace on-line guides which are always up-do-date to cover latest software release.

https://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace_zro.html
https://www.lightillusion.com/manual...ots_guide.html

Think that while ColourSpace hasn't released yet, LightIllusion has write already all guides for ColourSpace already, to be ready when the new software will be released.

Now all calibration software companies have up-to-date guides to cover their latest software release features/capabilities.

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post #14 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 01:59 PM
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Thanks for the pointers/tips, yes I'm also reading the idiots guide on their website. What is Colourspace, is it a new version of software that LI is coming out with?

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post #15 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:00 PM
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Thanks for the pointers/tips, yes I'm also reading the idiots guide on their website. What is Colourspace, is it a new version of software that LI is coming out with?
Its upcoming software of LI: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...on-thread.html

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post #16 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:06 PM
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Think that while ColourSpace hasn't released yet, LightIllusion has write already all guides for ColourSpace already, to be ready when the new software will be released.
To be fair, we haven't written the User Guides for ColourSpace yet... other than a couple of basic overview guides for basic 3D LUT generation, and basic Manual Measuring.

I'll probably do Video Guides first, as they seem to be more popular.

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post #17 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:39 PM
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Will there be a free version of ColourSpace available too?

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post #18 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:44 PM
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Will there be a free version of ColourSpace available too?

Yes, with 2D charts it will be available as free.

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post #19 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:49 PM
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So when will this be coming out.

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post #20 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:51 PM
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So when will this be coming out.
Ask to the ColourSpace thread.

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post #21 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 02:54 PM
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oaky I'll have a read over there, thanks.

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post #22 of 22 Old 11-02-2019, 03:21 PM
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https://www.lightillusion.com/colourspace.html
All presently available info there

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